Does it matter if all of your self exams are COMATs and not NBME

[Dr.Bruh]

My school makes us take the COMAT shelfs. Idk if PDs care about this or not. I’m interested in EM. Does honoring comats even matter if the scoring is different than NBMEs?

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[Sardonix]

My school makes us take the COMAT shelfs. Idk if PDs care about this or not. I’m interested in EM. Does honoring comats even matter if the scoring is different than NBMEs?

The test name doesn't matter. Your COMAT grade contributes to your rotation grade. Our school's MSPE letter doesn't mention anything about COMAT scoring on it, just the grade for the rotation.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No one cares.

 

[Ozilcr7]

Bruh kill step 2, no1 will give a **** about your COMAT scores as long as you dont fail

 

[AlteredScale]

My school makes us take the COMAT shelfs. Idk if PDs care about this or not. I’m interested in EM. Does honoring comats even matter if the scoring is different than NBMEs?

Honoring your shelves whether they are NBOME or NBME is important IMO, especially if is the deciding factor for honoring a clerkship. But this is school specific (some use the shelf score and eval, others only the shelf score, some don't even report these ).

Your performance on these shelf exams may be mentioned in your MSPE, it may effect your clinical rank (if you have one), it may show up on your transcript. Grades in the specific specialty that you are pursuing is considered heavily in interview invite based on the 2018 program director surveys.

I have already been asked indirectly about my performance on both licensing (usmle/comlex), my shelf scores, and my clinical rank from faculty who are apart of the recruitment committee during my sub-i. Everything matters to some degree. How much they matter is completely program dependent. So don't discount them.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Honoring your shelves whether they are NBOME or NBME is important IMO, especially if is the deciding factor for honoring a clerkship. But this is school specific (some use the shelf score and eval, others only the shelf score).

How is it fair that some schools incorporate evals and some don't, though? Our school only uses the self score, so it seems like it would be a lot harder to honor a rotation since it's solely based on your test score. Had a fourth year last year from my school post-match tell me that she got asked at a few interviews why she didn't honor the rotation for the specialty she was applying to and she had to explain that it was 100% based on the shelf.

 

[AlteredScale]

How is it fair that some schools incorporate evals and some don't, though? Our school only uses the self score, so it seems like it would be a lot harder to honor a rotation since it's solely based on your test score. Had a fourth year last year from my school post-match tell me that she got asked at a few interviews why she didn't honor the rotation for the specialty she was applying too and she had to explain that it was 100% based on the shelf.

It's not fair and there should be some standardization to how rotation grades are finalized across schools. But you can see then why the utility of the shelf score by itself is thus even MORE important since PD's are aware of this variation across clerkship grades, and I'm sure at the end of the day its about seeing some sort of standardized test that compares you between your peers: if you are scoring high on that test that means you have the knowledge base there and know how to use it within that specialty (and can do it better than others in your class or nationally).

My school also had the same grading (100% of the grade came from your shelf score unless the eval was a fail then it screwed you). It is exceptionally hard to honor the rotations based on shelf alone and I know many other applicants who missed honoring their specialty interest rotation by a few points based on the shelf.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Your performance on these shelf exams may be mentioned in your MSPE, it will effect your clinical rank, it will show up on your transcript. Grades in the specific specialty that you are pursuing is considered heavily in interview invite based on the 2018 program director surveys.

At our school the scores are not reported. You can literally fail and as long as they are passed by the time applications go out no one would ever know.

Our school only uses the self score, so it seems like it would be a lot harder to honor a rotation since it's solely based on your test score.

Trust me, it's a lot easier to honor a rotation based on shelf rather than some subjective evaluation. My personal favorite is when you murder the shelf, get glowing evals, but you don't get honors because the preceptor doesn't recommend students for honors on principle....

 

[fldoctorgirl]

My school also had the same grading (100% of the grade came from your shelf score unless the eval was a fail then it screwed you). It is exceptionally hard to honor the rotations based on shelf alone and I know many other applicants who missed honoring their specialty interest rotation by a few points based on the shelf.

We go to the same school if I recall correctly 😛

My personal favorite is when you murder the shelf, get glowing evals, but you don't get honors because the preceptor doesn't recommend students for honors on principle....

Yeah this seems ridiculous as well. So much subjectivity in third year, it seems.

 

[AlteredScale]

At our school the scores are not reported. You can literally fail and as long as they are passed by the time applications go out no one would ever know.


Trust me, it's a lot easier to honor a rotation based on shelf rather than some subjective evaluation. My personal favorite is when you murder the shelf, get glowing evals, but you don't get honors because the preceptor doesn't recommend students for honors on principle....

So how is clinical rank determined? They don't share they shelf scores on your transcript at all?

We go to the same school if I recall correctly 😛

Whoops! Sorry about that haha.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So how is clinical rank determined? They don't share they shelf scores on your transcript at all?

We don't have a clinical rank. The only rank we have is for the first two two years and I believe the school only reports quartiles.

 

[AlteredScale]

We don't have a clinical rank. The only rank we have is for the first two two years and I believe the school only reports quartiles.

Interesting! So just get comments from your evals on your MSPE then huh?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Interesting! So just get comments from your evals on your MSPE then huh?

Yeah that and the clinical grades which are just H/P/F. It's exceptionally difficult to get honors so I'll probably have mostly P's on my transcript to boot 🙄 It's honestly kind of irritating and I'm worried it will hurt my app but whatever.

 

[trundlethegreat]

Yeah that and the clinical grades which are just H/P/F. It's exceptionally difficult to get honors so I'll probably have mostly P's on my transcript to boot 🙄 It's honestly kind of irritating and I'm worried it will hurt my app but whatever.

This is why Honors should be all about the shelf to grade objectively, but if you score a 107 (which is what NBOME states is "good understanding of core knowledge for that specialty"), and have no derogatory marks on eval and/or exceed expectations as determined by preceptor then you should be "high pass". At least then the eval means something and can differentiate somewhat between the person who doesn't gaf about it and barely passes and the person who misses honors by 1 point or something. Both get "P" but no way are they the same. This matters for some sub-I applications like in OB, IM, surgery, etc., apparently some programs only take students who have high-passed or honored their cores.

 

[trundlethegreat]

My school makes us take the COMAT shelfs. Idk if PDs care about this or not. I’m interested in EM. Does honoring comats even matter if the scoring is different than NBMEs?

No one gives a crap about the kind of shelf exam, from the mouth of several subspecialty residents. PD's understand there is a plethora of grading styles and only care about the letter on the transcript. Maybe an MGH or Stanford attending would turn their nose up but not many of us are going for that lol.

 

[MarthaFocker]

No one gives a crap about the kind of shelf exam, from the mouth of several subspecialty residents. PD's understand there is a plethora of grading styles and only care about the letter on the transcript. Maybe an MGH or Stanford attending would turn their nose up but not many of us are going for that lol.

Some of the Stanford attendings may turn their nose up at the opportunity to turn their nose up, just because they can. Consider yourself lucky not to match @ Stanford EM, there are a lot of really great programs across the country. I can’t speak for MGH, I didn’t do a residency there.

Bottom line, it should not matter, if it does, ask yourself why, and if you want to go to a place that that kind of thing matters.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I mean even if it did matter, it’s not like we can control it

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

Bruh kill step 2, no1 will give a **** about your COMAT scores as long as you dont fail

Is this true? I've only honored 1 rotation so far 🙁

 

[calvinhobbes]

No one knows or cares. Mine were all comat , not one person asked about it on interviews.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

At our school the scores are not reported. You can literally fail and as long as they are passed by the time applications go out no one would ever know.


Trust me, it's a lot easier to honor a rotation based on shelf rather than some subjective evaluation. My personal favorite is when you murder the shelf, get glowing evals, but you don't get honors because the preceptor doesn't recommend students for honors on principle....

I am going to disagree with you on this one. If you knew a preceptor was like that, you could swap them out. And someone who does that will be well known. I have had only one preceptor give me the shaft on eval (ironically it was FM), and if I had smashed the shelf I would have honored. In my experience, most preceptors have been far more forgiving than the shelfs.

This is kind of mute tho, 3rd year evals are all so very different. Thats why the rank in third is more important, or if your at my school, the graph they place in the MSPE that shows how you compared in each rotation.

 

[AlteredScale]

My school makes us take the COMAT shelfs. Idk if PDs care about this or not. I’m interested in EM. Does honoring comats even matter if the scoring is different than NBMEs?

My colleague applying EM has stated has not had pushback with taking COMAT. They are also on a J1 visa but have received very strong university EM invites.

You should honor them as this will show up on your deans letter/MSPE and will also push your clinical rank higher which also shows up on the letter. These are things that PDs will assess you by for both interview invite and ranking.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

am going to disagree with you on this one. If you knew a preceptor was like that, you could swap them out. And someone who does that will be well known. I have had only one preceptor give me the shaft on eval (ironically it was FM), and if I had smashed the shelf I would have honored. In my experience, most preceptors have been far more forgiving than the shelfs.

It’s not just one preceptor. We have wards rotations where entire services might give honors out to 5 students all year. You can’t just swap out what attending is on what service.

Thats why the rank in third i

Our school doesn’t rank the clinical years. The rank is finalized after year 2.

 

[NVO]

I personally like how clinical grade is solely based off of shelf score. Meant a lot less ass-kissing during clinical rotations, and a lot less of the BS thats traditionally associated with being an MS3. You win some you lose some with reaching honors, although I am going for a specialty that doesnt require a shelf/nbome so I didn't care as much.