Does ranking really matter?

[sarahbeth607]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. I was thrilled to recieve an acceptance to Wayne State University School of Medicine recently. Since then, I've gone on some other interviews. When I went to interview at Wayne, I loved the atmosphere of the school, and also, since I'm a Michigan resident, it's so affordable! I've been interviewing at other schools and haven't liked them as much, including some that are really highly ranked. It would be such a struggle to pay for them too.

My question is this: if I go to a school that isn't in the top 50 as determined by USNews, like Wayne State, will I be screwing myself over when I apply for residencies in the future? I know the reputation of your medical school can help, but if you do really well on the USMLE and in med school, does it really matter that much? I don't really want to stay in Michigan for the rest of my life (gross weather!!) and want to leave myself at least the hope of securing a residency elsewhere!!

Thanks all 😎

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[WatchingWaiting]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. I was thrilled to recieve an acceptance to Wayne State University School of Medicine recently. Since then, I've gone on some other interviews. When I went to interview at Wayne, I loved the atmosphere of the school, and also, since I'm a Michigan resident, it's so affordable! I've been interviewing at other schools and haven't liked them as much, including some that are really highly ranked. It would be such a struggle to pay for them too.

My question is this: if I go to a school that isn't in the top 50 as determined by USNews, like Wayne State, will I be screwing myself over when I apply for residencies in the future? I know the reputation of your medical school can help, but if you do really well on the USMLE and in med school, does it really matter that much? I don't really want to stay in Michigan for the rest of my life (gross weather!!) and want to leave myself at least the hope of securing a residency elsewhere!!

Thanks all 😎

No one can really answer definitively exactly how much positive or negative impact your med school has on your residency placement (it never hurts to have graduated from Harvard, and program directors aren't exactly going to be salivating over Wayne State).

However, it can be said, definitely, that if you rock Step I, achieve excellent clinical grades, get good letters of rec, swing some research, and do some audition rotations in your field of interest, you will be able to match in whatever field you want. Maybe not at super-elite academic programs, but certainly outside of your home state. Also, if you are considering medicine or psych or one of the less competitive residencies, you will be able to match at even top programs if you do well enough. I was looking at the Stanford Internal medicine residents a couple of weeks ago, and, honestly, about half of them came from not-prestigious med schools. You won't see this if you look at radiology or orthopedic surgery, but, for the less competitive fields, even top programs will be open to you from any med school if you do well enough in med school.

 

[blingblah]

pretty much agree with watchingwaiting.....

I am actually in the same boat but in my case it is UIC instead of wayne state. I looked through a lotta pages in SDN for an answer to how much does the prestige thing matter... and it does matter!!! For example: from what I read a student in the middle of his class at a prestigious school will get a shot at "competitive" residencies while a student from a "less presitigious" school would need to be AOA and great USMLE scores to land the same shot..... watever I cud care less now.

Its nice to think that doing great in step 1 and researchin and getting great LORS would even that out, but thats easier said than done isnt it?

I am going to UIC, its affordable and in chicago where I am closer to home. The way i figure it, if you want to match into a competitive residency and are determined to do it, you ought to be able to succeed wherever you go. Good luck to us all! 👍

 

[scrappysurfer]

I have had this conversation with several academic orthopedists, including physicians on residency committees. The answer is that unless you go to a top 3 school -Harvard, Hopkins, or Wash U -your medical school does not really matter. Even in the most highly competitive specialties everyone has high board scores and it truely comes down to the interview. From what one physician said residency interviews are extraordinarily nitpicky. The result comes down to "I didn't like the way she slouched a little when she sat down."

Conclusion: Go to a place where you will develop into a happy, well adjusted physician as that will show when you go to your interviews.

p.s. For the Wayne State fan, I recently saw a fellowship application with an MD from Wayne State and top orthopedics residency.

 

[MeowMix]

There are lots of other things way more important than the highly subjective and mysterious rankings. Go over to the allo forum and see what some current Wayne State MS1s are saying about their experiences in some of their courses (do a search). Then understand that you may have similar experiences there or at other schools. These will affect your life in med school much more than rankings.

 

[MWillie]

I have had this conversation with several academic orthopedists, including physicians on residency committees. The answer is that unless you go to a top 3 school -Harvard, Hopkins, or Wash U -your medical school does not really matter. Even in the most highly competitive specialties everyone has high board scores and it truely comes down to the interview. From what one physician said residency interviews are extraordinarily nitpicky. The result comes down to "I didn't like the way she slouched a little when she sat down."

Conclusion: Go to a place where you will develop into a happy, well adjusted physician as that will show when you go to your interviews.

p.s. For the Wayne State fan, I recently saw a fellowship application with an MD from Wayne State and top orthopedics residency.

So how much of a bonus do these guys think going to harvard hopkins or wash u is?

 

[scrappysurfer]

There is a bonus for the top 3, maybe 5. However, good school, lousy grades or lousy boards is useless. I might include UCSF in the listing of tip top schools

I just saw the list of this week's ortho resident interviewees. It is a very very competitive residency here but only about %50 were from the aforementioned schools.

I have heard this info from nearly every resident, fellow, and attending I have ever spoken to about the topic. Several of them even attended the more venerable institutions and all of them volunteered the information. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU WENT TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. Just get good boards.

So to those who feel like life is over after being shut out of the top 10, don't worry.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

There are lots of other things way more important than the highly subjective and mysterious rankings.

I wouldn't say that the US News rankings are mysterious in any way - the ranking criteria is easily found alongside the rankings. But I certainly do agree that going to a medical school where one feels comfortable is much more important than choosing a school by its disputable rank. I think rankings can play a role in one's decision on where to attend medical school, but it ought to be trumped by other factors, such as curriculum, location, etc.

 

[YzIa]

While I don't think its necessary to attend a top ranked medical school in order to match competively, it certainly wouldn't hurt if you excelled at a name school. One thing I do not agree with is the top 3 or top 5 thing. You can't say that a students from Stanford, U Michigan, Vanderbilt, Emory, or U Chicago wouldn't have a "leg up" on students from lower ranked schools. Mayo and Chicago are tied for 22nd and I would believe that both schools still would have a lot of name power in helping the student out. My opinion is that you can excel anywhere and achieve your goals anywhere, but you are going to have more opportunities to do so attending more prestigious schools, and the more prestigious the school, the more it will supplement you and your accomplishments.

 

[sarahbeth607]

In what specialties is it hardest to obtain a residency?

Thanks to all of you who gave me some more info or opinions about how much rankings matter. I guess when it comes down to it, I don't want to be playing the rankings game for the rest of my life. I want to be able to move to another area of the country, but I care about becoming a good physician, not having the most prestigious degree, so I'll probably end up going to Wayne. Congrats to everyone whose been accepted anywhere and good luck with your decisions!

 

[davidus]

In what specialties is it hardest to obtain a residency?

Off the top of my head: dermatology, radiology, orthopedics, ophthalmology... in general, the "lifestyle" specialties, where you make large amounts of money while working less grueling hours. Due to the worsening HC system, primary care is growing less and less appealing sadly.

 

[KosmoKramer]

So I also got into Wayne a few years ago, and I currently have 3 friends there. I don't mean to knock it or anything, my friends tell me that the school is just ok for them. I'm sure they will do well, but they are all hard workers themselves, very self motivated self learners. The reason why I chose to go to another school over wayne was that I was not a self learner and the program I went to is very integrated and has a cooperative student atmoshphere. I go to a program that is integrated (phys, path, pharm, etc all taught in organ systems). Wayne uses a "traditional" program: first year phys, second year path with other subjects such as pharm taught in a block. I prefered the integrated approach and did well. That said, yes, Wayne is a good school with a traditional cirriculum, great price, and people match well for residencies. Detroit is a little tougher area than many, but as I'm sure you know Royal Oak, Southfield, and other places close by are nicer and are probably where you will live. Take into consideration your commute and stuff and compare to other schools where the med school is NOT in the middle of the city. Also take into consideration that Wayne is highly technologically advanced and has ALL of their lectures available online in video format within one to three days after the lecture. Unfortunately my school doesn't have that. My friends frequently take advantage of that at Wayne. I would forget rank at this point, and go with what fits your personality the best. Talk to as many students as you can from the programs you are considering. Good luck.

 

[exmike]

reputation matters, but not more than your step 1 and honors in clinicals. Its kinda like applying to med school, Your undergrad matters, but not more than your GPA and MCAT. Going to WSU wont hurt your chances at a competitive residency, but going to a "higher ranked" school may make it a little "easier".

 

[doc05]

don't underestimate how important school name really is in securing a competitive residency. In the competitive fields (rads, ortho, etc), top schools are disproprionately represented. even in less competitive fields (like medicine), there are certain places that tend to take residents from the best schools (mgh, etc)...

the bar will be set higher for you if you go to wayne state: you'll pretty much need aoa and a very high step 1, and even with these, you can be sure a comparable (or even lesser-achieving) student at U Michigan will have the advantage.

I'm sure you'll get a good education at WSU, but keep in mind these disadvantages. also keep in mind that many of your classmates will realize these facts too, and so you may very well face a hypercompetitive environment in ms1/ms2 (esp if the school is not P/F). I'm not sure which "top" schools you've visited, or where else you've been accepted, so I can't comment on the environment there. best of luck.

 

[rjb]

my cousin goes to wayne state, was miserable and is having a super hard time gettin residency although he did well and made connections. its only january, so keep ur mind open about where u wanna go and really compare the schools' match charts it really makes a difference.. if u live in philly, why do u wanna go to detroit michigan so bad? I visited three years ago, and i can honestly say that the city was the poorest place ive been 🙁 THe education is good and tiger stadium is nice.... and theres always windsor canada.. i dunno..
im just saying keep ur options open

 

[superdevil]

reputation matters, but not more than your step 1 and honors in clinicals. Its kinda like applying to med school, Your undergrad matters, but not more than your GPA and MCAT. Going to WSU wont hurt your chances at a competitive residency, but going to a "higher ranked" school may make it a little "easier".

exactly.


going to a big name, in the final analysis, may end up being nothing. BUT, what if its worth just that little something extra? what if its a tie-breaker between you and another, very similar, applicant (who attended a 'no-name' school) at a residency program that happens to be your top choice? is that inconceivable? not in the least. could it get your proverbial foot in the door somewhere new and exciting? yup. most importantly, though: does it pale in comparison to your grades and board scores? of course.

its all just personal preference. just determine if its worth it to you to pay all that extra $$$ for that possible ace in the hole.

 

[visualwealth]

top schools are not just harvard wash U and hopkins... other school that will help you include Yale (all around america), Stanford( all around) , U Penn (all around), Duke( bigger advantage in the south and probably all around the US), U Mich (huge huge advantage in the midwest and probably all around US), Columbia( advantage all around but, mainly in NY area and other top Ivy's) and Cornell( similar to columbia)...

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. I was thrilled to recieve an acceptance to Wayne State University School of Medicine recently. Since then, I've gone on some other interviews. When I went to interview at Wayne, I loved the atmosphere of the school, and also, since I'm a Michigan resident, it's so affordable! I've been interviewing at other schools and haven't liked them as much, including some that are really highly ranked. It would be such a struggle to pay for them too.

My question is this: if I go to a school that isn't in the top 50 as determined by USNews, like Wayne State, will I be screwing myself over when I apply for residencies in the future? I know the reputation of your medical school can help, but if you do really well on the USMLE and in med school, does it really matter that much? I don't really want to stay in Michigan for the rest of my life (gross weather!!) and want to leave myself at least the hope of securing a residency elsewhere!!

Thanks all 😎

what school you went to doesn't matter

your clinical grades & usmle scores, as well as time spent at the residencies you apply to are what really matter

 

[VCMM414]

Off the top of my head: dermatology, radiology, orthopedics, opthamology... in general, the "lifestyle" specialties, where you make large amounts of money while working less grueling hours. Due to the worsening HC system, primary care is growing less and less appealing sadly.

Competitive fields are in general, but not always, lifestyle specialities.

Most competitive: Plastics, Derm, ENT, Ortho, Neurosurg, Urology, Radiation Oncology

Ophthalmology and Radiology are competitive also, but not quite as much as the abovementioned.

Interestingly, General Surgery is becoming more popular these days. GS used to be very tough to match into ('80s and early '90s), but then went thru a period of decline in the late '90s. These days it's becoming harder again, maybe because of the 80hr work week rule? In any case, very few General Surgery spots go unfilled these days, and about the same % of GS applicants went unmatched last year compared to ophthalmology or radiology applicants (meaning all 3 can be pretty competitive).

(Based on 2004 match stats like filled/unfilled spots etc.)

 

[MedicineBird]

Doesn't it sorta depend on what field you are interested in gaining a residency in? For example, If you want to go into saaaay radiology, what good would attending the University of Washington which has been ranked #1 for the past 11 years in primary care do you?

 

[VCMM414]

U of Washington is well regarded in the medical community primary care or not.