Does the ABP need a raise?

[exPCM]

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Members don't see this ad.

I just saw that the ABP is taking in over 3 million bucks per year in exam fees. I wonder if they will push to raise the fees again when they decide to redecorate their offices again. What a sweet gig.
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/350/969/2008-350969609-04fb36ab-9O.pdf
I would bet their income took a nice big jump when they shortened AP/CP residency to 4 years (2200 path residents now crammed into 4 years = 550 per year instead of 2200 path residents over 5 years = 440 per year) and now that fellowships are all filling up as they have become almost mandatory due to the crappy job market.

 

[salt]

I just saw that the ABP is taking in over 3 million bucks per year in exam fees. I wonder if they will push to raise the fees again when they decide to redecorate their offices again. What a sweet gig.
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/350/969/2008-350969609-04fb36ab-9O.pdf
I would bet their income took a nice big jump when they shortened AP/CP residency to 4 years (2200 path residents now crammed into 4 years = 550 per year instead of 2200 path residents over 5 years = 440 per year) and now that fellowships are all filling up as they have become almost mandatory due to the crappy job market.

This has been my biggest gripe against obamacare, that it does not include a raise for Betsy bennet. 329.5 K?!? She deserves sooooo much more. withb that kind of crappy compensation, next thing you know we'll get some hack in there who is totally unresponsive to the concerns of the people taking the boards and jacks up the prices to unreasonable level.s. i propose we take up a collection and donate it to her so we do not lose the valuable servant we have in the present ABp executive VIP.

 

[exPCM]

Yes and they get to have the new bonanza of recertification and maintenance of certification fees - SWEET!

 

[pathstudent]

One person making that much seems reasonable to me.
That's a full time job. It would be obnoxious if everyone on the board made that much.

 

[exPCM]

One person making that much seems reasonable to me.
That's a full time job. It would be obnoxious if everyone on the board made that much.

How about setting the pay at an even 200K and cutting out some of the other unnecessary expenses (close to 400K for travel and conferences, ~75k for "investment management", etc).
It is amazing how loose people's wallets get when they are spending other peoples' money.

I am sure there would be many willing applicants to do the job of Dr. Bennett for 200K.
Then cut the exam fees by at least 500 bucks a head.

Then those out there like yourself who think that 200K pay is not enough can all go ahead and make personal donations to the ABP to be used to increase the pay while the rest of us find other ways to spend our money.

 

[pathstudent]

How about setting the pay at an even 200K and cutting out some of the other unnecessary expenses (close to 400K for travel and conferences, ~75k for "investment management", etc).
It is amazing how loose people's wallets get when they are spending other peoples' money.

I am sure there would be many willing applicants to do the job of Dr. Bennett for 200K.
Then cut the exam fees by at least 500 bucks a head.

Then those out there like yourself who think that 200K pay is not enough can all go ahead and make personal donations to the ABP to be used to increase the pay while the rest of us find other ways to spend our money.

200K is way too low for such a distinguished position. It is not a position to be Walmarted out. Hell you could probably find a guy standing out in front of Home Depot that would do the job for 20k, but is that what you want running the board? The head of the ABP deserves a high academic salary (which 300k-400k is)

 

[Gyric]

The stated mission of the ABP is "to promote the health of the public by advancing the practice and science of pathology." "The board maintains standards in the practice of pathology by providing for an examination process in the primary and subspecialties."

How well an organization meets its mission is one metric for determining the effectiveness of an executive director. I simply can not understand how the ABP has in any way advanced the practice and science of pathology. I also think it is a stretch to assert that the board maintains any meaningful standards in practice (most new graduates will find that ABP certification, although often required for privileges, does not impress potential employers, who have had to turn to their own form of oral examination, the slide test, to separate out the incompetent and dangerous board certified pathologists among us). According to the trustees though, the executive director has exceeded expectations and received a $25k productivity bonus in 2008.

I don't think this salary is too high, in fact I would support a higher salary (through increased fees if needed) to bring in someone who could actually advance the practice of pathology in this position. Betsy Bennett has had seven years to demonstrate this ability and has failed (unless you consider simply running the test center and pushing through a very poorly conceived MOC program followed by a failed effort at implementation, a success); I would argue that the trustees (some of whom are successful private practice pathologists) let our whole profession down by not replacing her at this point.

 

[exPCM]

200K is way too low for such a distinguished position. It is not a position to be Walmarted out. Hell you could probably find a guy standing out in front of Home Depot that would do the job for 20k, but is that what you want running the board? The head of the ABP deserves a high academic salary (which 300k-400k is)

Pathstudent,

The annual pay for a US Senator is 174K per year: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm

Are you saying that being a US Senator is not a "distinguished position".

200K is plenty of pay for someone who is basically a figurehead and that is totally unresponsive to the applicants (see the recent thread on the lateness of the dates being given out for the spring AP/CP boards).
What percentage of the exam questions do you think Dr. Bennett personally writes?
How many of the questions each year are just reccycled from previous years?
These exams are basically just given in May-June and Sep-October each year with the remaining 8 months having no active exams given. Do you think they could actually try and work and little harder and maybe give the subspecialty exams more than once a year and maybe give the AP/CP tests more frequently as well.
Do you think they could actually give the test dates far enough in advance so that people could book the lowest airfares. I guess the problem is that the ABP appears to me to be filled with a group of people who don't give a sh** about pathologists and pathology residents out in the real world.
IMO the staff at the ABP is not interested in making an effort to work that hard.
The president of the university I attended has a lower salary than Dr. Bennett.
Do you think we need to raise university tuitions even more so that we can pay more people a "high academic salary"?. Again I think it is just great that you find it so easy to decide how to spend other people's money.

 

[Thrombus]

I want to know why we all have to go to Tampa to take the stupid test. Certainly not because of 40-50 or so 20 year old slides?

Every other test I can take at a testing center. I wonder how many pathologists prefer that we all go to Tampa to take it....0.5%? (the people who live in Tampa)

And why does the dumb thing cost $2200 to take plus another 1800$ for subspec. boards (which most people have to take now a days) for a bunch of recycled questions. Add up airfare, hotel, per diem and you can spend close to 8 grand to get your boards!!! And many groups won't reimburse you for this (with the current glut)!!!!

I could write a better test for the nation and would only charge 250$ and make out like a thief!!!

 

[salt]

One person making that much seems reasonable to me.
That's a full time job. It would be obnoxious if everyone on the board made that much.

So, honorable pathstudent, many of the opinions you proffer are regarded by your peers as unreasonable and/or ill-informed. You seem to be generally unliked and not respected by same. You have no qualms about foisting your ideas far and wide. And you believe 329.5 K/year is completely reasonable compensation for someone who by all appearances is ineffectual, marginally competent, and operates in a completely opaque and unaccountable fashion towards those whom the organization professes to act on behalf of.

Yes, some day you will make a fine ABP Executive VP.

Or maybe VP of an investment bank.

 

[pathstudent]

You are a real complainer. It costs the abp less to centralize the testing center. Plus the cost is similar to many other specialties. Lastly many other specialties have an oral AND written board.

What the he'll? If it cost 1000 would you then be ok with it. What the hell is one thousand dollars over ten years. With the new Obama tax code you will be spending an extra thirty to fifty thousand a year in taxes alone.

You don't need to be board certified to practice pathology so if it bothers you that much, don't take the exam. It is fruckin optional.

I want to know why we all have to go to Tampa to take the stupid test. Certainly not because of 40-50 or so 20 year old slides?

Every other test I can take at a testing center. I wonder how many pathologists prefer that we all go to Tampa to take it....0.5%? (the people who live in Tampa)

And why does the dumb thing cost $2200 to take plus another 1800$ for subspec. boards (which most people have to take now a days) for a bunch of recycled questions. Add up airfare, hotel, per diem and you can spend close to 8 grand to get your boards!!! And many groups won't reimburse you for this (with the current glut)!!!!

I could write a better test for the nation and would only charge 250$ and make out like a thief!!!

 

[salt]

You are a real complainer. It costs the abp less to centralize the testing center. Plus the cost is similar to many other specialties. Lastly many other specialties have an oral and written board.

What the he'll if it cost 1000 would you then be ok with it. What the he'll is one thousand dollars over ten years. With the new Obama tax code you will be spending an extra thirty to fifty thousand a year in taxes alone.

You don't need to be board certified to practice pathology so if it bothers you that much, don't take the exam. It is fruckin optional.

Wow! you are not just gonna be exec VP. You already are.

This is exactly what the ABP says if you question one of their policies, by, say, writing them a little letter, which I've done, as they have no formal grievance channel.

We do what we want, the way we want to. We charge what we want, and we don't have to justify it or explain it in any way. And we won't. If you don't like it, tough noogies. You can do it our way or not at all.

Try it sometime. It's a real dose of crappy reality.

It's also the height of disingenuousness. Everyone across the board expects you to be "board certified". Is this an accident? Well, the ABP actively promotes that expectation, then sets the terms and the cost for obtaining it.

Don't like it?

Tough noogies.

 

[lipomas]

ABpath definitely needs a full-time pathologist on staff. I have no quarrel with her salary. What I have quarrels with is that they can't seem to use some of that money to get a ****ing website guru who can design a site that isn't worthless. And pay someone $30,000 to answer the damn phone and return emails. Is this stuff that hard? I know the ABP has lots to think about and lots to do but I think they spend too much time (and money, probably) massaging the egos of the pathologists on the board.

The travel expenses are probably not off the wall though. I am sure she has to travel all over the place visiting various locations and giving talks. Plus people have to fly in to help prepare the exam and certification stuff.

Salt makes a couple of good points but it's not just the board who expects you to be board certified. It's everything that expects it (except plaintiff's attorneys). That is not going to change. A lot of the crap the board is doing with MOC and things is directly related to pressure from insurance companies, licensing institutions, hospitals. They are not coming up with intentionally complicated schemes.