Does tutoring high school students count as clinical experience?

[JuniperTree]

Very quick Q: Does mentoring high school students count as clinical experience? It was under the supervision of a LCSW. No serious mental illness, more pointing kids in the right direction and occasional tutoring.

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[JuniperTree]

Just bumping this.
I've been doing this for several years and as I am focused on research would like to know if this can count as clinical experience?

 

[FutureDoctor503]

Clinical experience involves direct contact with patients. I hope this answers your question.

 

[futureapppsy2]

^

This is the psychology forum, not the ore-med forum, so definitions of clinical experience differ a bit.

OP, what do you mean by "pointing in the right direction"? Are they "at risk" kids?

 

[erg923]

If that's "clinical experience" then there's not a person on the planet that doesn't have clinical experience. That's more life experience, if you ask me. When a job asks about this, they are generally referring to paid of volunteer experiences where you worked with a disturbed or maladjusted populations in some kind of direct or ancillary care role.

 

[roubs]

Just bumping this.
I've been doing this for several years and as I am focused on research would like to know if this can count as clinical experience?

Some may disagree, but I wouldn't call what you describe clinical experience.

 

[JuniperTree]

^

This is the psychology forum, not the ore-med forum, so definitions of clinical experience differ a bit.

OP, what do you mean by "pointing in the right direction"? Are they "at risk" kids?

Thank you.
Yes, "at risk" in the sense that their friends are engaged in risky behavior and leaving school, but I get the kids who are still involved in their education who hate authority. They're in their early teens, I follow them until adulthood. It's a higher socioeconomic group, so with involved albeit dysfunctional parents. I've been successful in developing trusting relationships but not in terms of my kids becoming easier for other adults to deal with (although no one I have mentored has done drugs or engaged in dangerously promiscuous behavior, mostly because we have a deal about that.)

If that's "clinical experience" then there's not a person on the planet that doesn't have clinical experience. That's more life experience, if you ask me. When a job asks about this, they are generally referring to paid of volunteer experiences where you worked with a disturbed or maladjusted populations in some kind of direct or ancillary care role.

I am paid for doing this.

Some may disagree, but I wouldn't call what you describe clinical experience.

Thanks.I am planning to apply to neuropsych - focused programs with a major emphasis on research as opposed to therapy

 

[JuniperTree]

You're going to have to become proficient in therapy if you go to a clinical program, research focused or not. Most of the best clinical programs with neuro tracks have their students go through the same therapy training as the straight clinical people.

Thank you.
Yes, I edited that out of my post because it came out a little strong.

Back to the question - does this count as clinical experience, or life experience? I don't want to mention something like this on a personal statement if it could count against me.

 

[psich]

Thank you.
Yes, I edited that out of my post because it came out a little strong.

Back to the question - does this count as clinical experience, or life experience? I don't want to mention something like this on a personal statement if it could count against me.

Life experience IMO.

 

[deleted176373]

Very quick Q: Does mentoring high school students count as clinical experience? It was under the supervision of a LCSW. No serious mental illness, more pointing kids in the right direction and occasional tutoring.

Ask yourself this... was there a treatment plan? Was there any theoretical basis for the intervention (or was it even an intervention) with the students?

I believe that without more details it's hard to say, but it sounds like life experience.

 

[Ollie123]

Its certainly fine to mention it, especially this is a population you want to work with. It sounds like valuable experience, and not far outside the realm of the "clinical" experience that is expected of undergrads (almost no one has "true" clinical experience at that time). Just because it isn't categorized as clinical experience doesn't mean it can't help your application.

 

[JuniperTree]

Life experience IMO.

It doesn't sound like you were doing anything clinical, so I'm not sure how it would be clinical experience.

OK

Ask yourself this... was there a treatment plan? Was there any theoretical basis for the intervention (or was it even an intervention) with the students?

I believe that without more details it's hard to say, but it sounds like life experience.

Thank you for defining what "clinical" means.
Let's say a PhD/MS in psychology were to agree to supervise me, and I'd send them an update weekly, and write why I am doing what I'm doing - would that count as clinical experience? (I'm applying in December and could start doing that September.)

Its certainly fine to mention it, especially this is a population you want to work with. It sounds like valuable experience, and not far outside the realm of the "clinical" experience that is expected of undergrads (almost no one has "true" clinical experience at that time). Just because it isn't categorized as clinical experience doesn't mean it can't help your application.

Thank you! That would be a great way to bring it into my application, I would really like to work with teenagers.

 

[psich]

Based on what you've shared, quite honestly, it seems to me that you are trying to stretch your tutoring job to make it look like clinical experience.

Teenagers engage in risky behaviors, people have dysfunctional families, etc. Interacting with them doesn't necessarily count as something clinical. I think Markp says it well...if there is no treatment plan, if you didn't conceptualize cases to try and address psychological issues, I don't think it can count as clinical experience.

 

[socialpsy]

90% of professors don't care about clinical experience anyway.

Just list your position and your objective responsibilities on your C.V. If there is anything 'clinical' or clinically-relevant to infer, professors are smart enough to infer it. That is, if you try to stretch it, it will be obvious to professors and you will either appear condescending and disrespectful, or just plain dishonest, neither of which is good. Put simply, it's a bad idea to try to manipulate people who are at the very least relative experts on manipulation.

 

[roubs]

90% of professors don't care about clinical experience anyway.

What makes you think this?

 

[Ollie123]

You seem bent on trying to pound the round peg through the square hole. It is what it is. Describe it in your personal statement and don't get caught up in the labels.

Again, very few undergrads will have true clinical experience. Especially if you are applying to research-heavy programs it is unlikely professors will place much emphasis on it...even equal emphasis programs traditionally give far more weight to research experience because as I said, you can't get much in the way of "real" clinical experience as an undergrad because the only things you are adequately trained to do are very qualitatively different from the role you would take at the doctoral level. I'm in a PCSAS-accredited program right now and had zero clinical experience when applying, but worked in 5 different substance use/addiction labs, all with federally (R01) funded investigators, was on a first-name basis with all of them, got strong letters, and played a significant (and unique) role in each of their labs. Our faculty here have openly stated that clinical experience is certainly nice to have, but its not by any stretch of the imagination a deciding factor in applications, and too much will actually hurt you (especially if it looks like it supplanted research experience). If these are the schools you are looking at there is no need to try and twist something into clinical experience if it doesn't fit. If clinical opportunities are there, by all means getting SOME experience would certainly help, but there is no need to force it.

 

[socialpsy]

What makes you think this?

By "not care" I mostly mean that it does not even moderately impact their determination of an applicant's competitiveness or eligibility.

I think this because I've asked over 100 professors who have told me just that. The vast majority said that they don't even make a point to weight it in decisions, and most of the rest said that it is not a critical factor. Of course, a bias here is that I am talking about at least moderately research-oriented programs.

 

[JuniperTree]

Based on what you've shared, quite honestly, it seems to me that you are trying to stretch your tutoring job to make it look like clinical experience.

Teenagers engage in risky behaviors, people have dysfunctional families, etc. Interacting with them doesn't necessarily count as something clinical. I think Markp says it well...if there is no treatment plan, if you didn't conceptualize cases to try and address psychological issues, I don't think it can count as clinical experience.

Got it. Thank you. (although, I primarily mentor, only tutoring as part of that. But it doesn't matter, I didn't conceptualize cases or have a treatment plan, besides getting parents to get their teens real therapy.)

90% of professors don't care about clinical experience anyway.

Just list your position and your objective responsibilities on your C.V. If there is anything 'clinical' or clinically-relevant to infer, professors are smart enough to infer it. That is, if you try to stretch it, it will be obvious to professors and you will either appear condescending and disrespectful, or just plain dishonest, neither of which is good. Put simply, it's a bad idea to try to manipulate people who are at the very least relative experts on manipulation.

I see what you're saying. I am a bit worried about having no clinical experience but relieved to see it won't be as important as I thought.

You seem bent on trying to pound the round peg through the square hole. It is what it is. Describe it in your personal statement and don't get caught up in the labels.

Got it. 🙂 Appreciate the clarity.

Again, very few undergrads will have true clinical experience. Especially if you are applying to research-heavy programs it is unlikely professors will place much emphasis on it...even equal emphasis programs traditionally give far more weight to research experience because as I said, you can't get much in the way of "real" clinical experience as an undergrad because the only things you are adequately trained to do are very qualitatively different from the role you would take at the doctoral level. I'm in a PCSAS-accredited program right now and had zero clinical experience when applying, but worked in 5 different substance use/addiction labs, all with federally (R01) funded investigators, was on a first-name basis with all of them, got strong letters, and played a significant (and unique) role in each of their labs. Our faculty here have openly stated that clinical experience is certainly nice to have, but its not by any stretch of the imagination a deciding factor in applications, and too much will actually hurt you (especially if it looks like it supplanted research experience). If these are the schools you are looking at there is no need to try and twist something into clinical experience if it doesn't fit. If clinical opportunities are there, by all means getting SOME experience would certainly help, but there is no need to force it.

Wow! That's really impressive. Thank you for the responding.

By "not care" I mostly mean that it does not even moderately impact their determination of an applicant's competitiveness or eligibility.

I think this because I've asked over 100 professors who have told me just that. The vast majority said that they don't even make a point to weight it in decisions, and most of the rest said that it is not a critical factor. Of course, a bias here is that I am talking about at least moderately research-oriented programs.

Thanks! All the programs I am applying to are at least moderately research-oriented.

 

[roubs]

I haven't spoken to 100 faculty, but the ones at my moderately research oriented program definitely want to see that applicants have had some experience with clinical populations. This can obviously be fulfilled in multiple ways including research, volunteering etc.

 

[PhishGirl]

Indeed. They care about clinical experience. I had the experience of being interviewed by a PhD student who was clearly, instantly turned off by me as a candidate for the program because I didn't have clinical experience when I applied. She had a clinical background, so that's what she wanted to hear about from me. I didn't get into the program.

 

[Ollie123]

I haven't spoken to 100 faculty, but the ones at my moderately research oriented program definitely want to see that applicants have had some experience with clinical populations. This can obviously be fulfilled in multiple ways including research, volunteering etc.

True, but I would say this is somewhat distinct from true "clinical experience". I certainly had done research with individuals who had clinical diagnoses in my area of interest, but that's not "clinical experience" in quite the same way as, say, working at a suicide hotline. I would describe it as exposure to clinical populations. Many/most applicants will have that. Comparatively few will have done things like interventions, diagnostic interviews, formal psychological testing, etc.

Perhaps we're just arguing semantics here, but I would only call the latter clinical experience. I believe only a minority of my cohort had that coming in.

 

[roubs]

True, but I would say this is somewhat distinct from true "clinical experience". I certainly had done research with individuals who had clinical diagnoses in my area of interest, but that's not "clinical experience" in quite the same way as, say, working at a suicide hotline. I would describe it as exposure to clinical populations. Many/most applicants will have that. Comparatively few will have done things like interventions, diagnostic interviews, formal psychological testing, etc.

Perhaps we're just arguing semantics here, but I would only call the latter clinical experience. I believe only a minority of my cohort had that coming in.

Agreed, if clinical experience is stuff you can bill for then its likely a minority of applicants would have that. To bring this back to the OP's question I don't even know if I would call mentoring high school students, some of them "troubled", as "exposure to clinical populations". I think a competitive applicant needs more experience with clients/participants than that. I say participants because if they've done research with clinical samples(aka, not college students) I think that could count. Agree/disagree?

 

[JuniperTree]

Agreed, if clinical experience is stuff you can bill for then its likely a minority of applicants would have that. To bring this back to the OP's question I don't even know if I would call mentoring high school students, some of them "troubled", as "exposure to clinical populations". I think a competitive applicant needs more experience with clients/participants than that. I say participants because if they've done research with clinical samples(aka, not college students) I think that could count. Agree/disagree?

I've done research with clinical samples, and not college students either! I just thought that would go under "research experience" rather than clinical.

 

[Ollie123]

I've done research with clinical samples, and not college students either! I just thought that would go under "research experience" rather than clinical.

It will. My point I was trying to make is you seem to be painting arbitrary boundaries around these categories that your faculty will not do when reading your application. Describe it in your personal statement, talk about how you've spent time with x, y,z while collecting data/whatever else. You seem way too caught up in how to categorize things. Trust me...if you make it to a stage where these experiences will play a role in your admission, faculty will be smart enough to deduce that "Conducting screening interviews with inpatients on an alcohol unit" means that you've worked and interacted with alcoholics.

Admissions is competitive and its good to make their life easy, but its not like they are just scanning CVs and saying "This person has worked in 3 labs and this person only has 2...that one is gone". They're actually going to look at the content. If you've gotten the requisite experience they expect for their students, they aren't going to care what category you put in.

 

[JuniperTree]

It will. My point I was trying to make is you seem to be painting arbitrary boundaries around these categories that your faculty will not do when reading your application. Describe it in your personal statement, talk about how you've spent time with x, y,z while collecting data/whatever else. You seem way too caught up in how to categorize things. Trust me...if you make it to a stage where these experiences will play a role in your admission, faculty will be smart enough to deduce that "Conducting screening interviews with inpatients on an alcohol unit" means that you've worked and interacted with alcoholics.

Admissions is competitive and its good to make their life easy, but its not like they are just scanning CVs and saying "This person has worked in 3 labs and this person only has 2...that one is gone". They're actually going to look at the content. If you've gotten the requisite experience they expect for their students, they aren't going to care what category you put in.

Thank you, you really explain things clearly.