Does Undegraduate matters?

[MDreamer11]

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I have been looking at this network for a while, and I have seen many different responses. Does where you go for your undergraduate matters to med school? I ask this because I do way better at a small university (attend for summer classes) than I do at my current university (top 50) If where you go for undergrad doesn't matter, then I feel very regretful for going to a more prestigious college..I should have just went to a small university at my hometown and get way better grades 🙁

 

[RokKidA]

I have read that you get additional points if you attend an undergraduate institution in the top 100. But they also weigh in your course load/difficulty and grades. So, you do get a bit of an advantage but probably not too much. I wouldn't worry about it too much though.

 

[FlowLimited]

Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn't. Nobody can tell you for certain. However, everyone knows that your GPA matters, so go to a school where you can be successful and don't worry about the name.

 

[Bearie]

.

 

[MichaelRW]

Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn't. Nobody can tell you for certain. However, everyone knows that your GPA matters, so go to a school where you can be successful and don't worry about the name.

Precisely. Indeed, some undergrad institutions are historically known to produce a high output of medical school matriculants. While it may be somewhat beneficial to be a student at one of these schools, it is, however, far more important to excel in your coursework, regardless of institution. IMO.

 

[littlealex]

Yes it matters but not that much. Does a 4.0 from MIT mean a little more than a 4.0 from Bumblef0ck College? Yes it does. Does a 3.4 from MIT mean more than a 3.8 from Bumblef0ck? No.

On another note, no one looks out to top50. People fuss over top20 institutions, but top50? That's considered a solid college, not a prestigious college.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Yes it matters but not that much. Does a 4.0 from MIT mean a little more than a 4.0 from Bumblef0ck College? Yes it does. Does a 3.4 from MIT mean more than a 3.8 from Bumblef0ck? No.

On another note, no one looks out to top50. People fuss over top20 institutions, but top50? That's considered a solid college, not a prestigious college.

I would SO accept the 3.4 from MIT over the 3.8 from Bomblef0ck. Not even close.

Do you know how smart those suckers from MIT are!!!

C'mon people, be honest!

 

[Slack3r]

No. Go to a state school where the girls are half as smart and thus twice as likely to fellate you.

 

[randombetch]

Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn't. Nobody can tell you for certain. However, everyone knows that your GPA matters, so go to a school where you can be successful and don't worry about the name.

No. Go to a state school where the girls are half as smart and thus twice as likely to fellate you.

Wow, this is the type of misleading information that seems to always circulate around SDN.

People on the admissions committee have confirmed that the undergraduate institution does matter to some extent.

End of discussion.

 

[FlowLimited]

Wow, this is the type of misleading information that seems to always circulate around SDN.

People on the admissions committee have confirmed that the undergraduate institution does matter to some extent.

End of discussion.

Saying that your undergraduate institution matters "to some extent" is laughably vague. What's not laughably vague is the importance of a solid GPA. You can't argue with that, so go where you can succeed.

 

[randombetch]

Saying that your undergraduate institution matters "to some extent" is laughably vague. What's not laughably vague is the importance of a solid GPA. You can't argue with that, so go where you can succeed.

If you can succeed at X and Y, and X is a more highly regarded undergrad, then it'll help you get into medical school more than Y will.

"Go to where you can succeed" is laughably vague.

 

[FlowLimited]

If you can succeed at X and Y, and X is a more highly regarded undergrad, then it'll help you get into medical school more than Y will.

"Go to where you can succeed" is laughably vague.

My point is simple: if you can't do well, the prestige factor isn't going to save you. Priority #1 is a solid GPA. Agree or disagree?

 

[Elpenor]

My point is simple: if you can't do well, the prestige factor isn't going to save you. Priority #1 is a solid GPA. Agree or disagree?

👍

I don't think anyone is going to be turning away 4.0's from any (most) undergrads.

 

[SamyRamadan]

👍

I don't think anyone is going to be turning away 4.0's from any (most) undergrads.

I'm pretty sure were all in agreement there.

But a 3.8 from Roger Williams University (Where I go)
is not as good as lets say
a 3.8 from Brown University or etc...

I'm just working on keeping my GPA solid and manhandling the MCAT.

I guess a 4.0 at CCCC
Cape Cod Community College

Is probs not gonna get you far.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

oh.. my... god...

 

[zinciest]

oh.. my... god...

You know that when you make a post about how dumb a thread is, it goes right back up to the top, right?

 

[randombetch]

My point is simple: if you can't do well, the prestige factor isn't going to save you. Priority #1 is a solid GPA. Agree or disagree?

Agreed.

My point is separate and also simple: undergraduate school does matter.

 

[garconfrancais]

.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I'm pretty sure were all in agreement there.

But a 3.8 from Roger Williams University (Where I go)
is not as good as lets say
a 3.8 from Brown University or etc...

I'm just working on keeping my GPA solid and manhandling the MCAT.

I guess a 4.0 at CCCC
Cape Cod Community College

Is probs not gonna get you far.

Brown has no grades. It is pass/no credit. So, if you fail, it just disappears.

Poof.

How awesome is that?

 

[ahmcadams]

I would SO accept the 3.4 from MIT over the 3.8 from Bomblef0ck. Not even close.

Do you know how smart those suckers from MIT are!!!

C'mon people, be honest!

Agreed. A 3.4 from MIT or Caltech in a technical major impresses me as an adcom member much more than a 3.8 from Generic U. More importantly, both meet virtually any threshold of undergraduate success and the decision is not going to boil down to "is the 3.4 MIT or 3.8 BumbleU GPA better?"

And though more prestige-blind than law or b-school admissions, school name does matter in the med sch application process. It's not the deciding factor, but to deny that the caliber of student varies meaningfully from a school like Harvard, Stanford, etc. to a significantly lesser-known school is naive.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

i personally think that if prestige is a minor fact, then major should be as well.

Being a Media Studies Major pre-med and a Physics Major pre-med, whether you are at a Top school or a bottom school makes a difference also in terms of GPA

 

[ahmcadams]

i personally think that if prestige is a minor fact, then major should be as well.

Being a Media Studies Major pre-med and a Physics Major pre-med, whether you are at a Top school or a bottom school makes a difference also in terms of GPA

You're right. Adcoms are definitely aware of which majors are more challenging and how that can influence GPA. They also know the classic paths of least resistance some pre-meds take to boost GPA (e.g. taking pre-req science classes at a CC or noticeably lower-tier school than their degree-granting institution).

 

[mmmcdowe]

It's a minor thing. Merit is merit is merit is merit. Medicine is ultimately a profession that is mostly a meritocracy with a sprinkling of good old boy system on the top. If you are a good applicant and a good fit, where you went is not likely to keep you out. Worrying about it is pointless. Go where you think you are going to be happy, you'll be better for it in the end and a lot less stressed. If Harvard makes you happy, go there. If your state school makes you happy, go there.

Further, people need to realize that prestige doesn't always equal academic reputation. Schools that tend to send an adcom a lot of good and well prepared applicants/students are going to be academically reputable. It varies from school to school as well. One can't make blanket statements like all schools give this much regard to prestige or no schools look at rank, etc etc. I'm sure it varies from adcom to adcom.

 

[randombetch]

Brown has no grades. It is pass/no credit. So, if you fail, it just disappears.

Poof.

How awesome is that?

Lol, Brown has grades dude. You can do pass/no credit if you want, but most classes are taken for a grade at Brown. Unless they have no interest in going to a professional/graduate school or getting a job/fellowship afterwards.

 

[SteinUmStein]

The MCAT will always be the great equalizer. Period.

 

[johncalvin]

I would SO accept the 3.4 from MIT over the 3.8 from Bomblef0ck. Not even close.

Do you know how smart those suckers from MIT are!!!

C'mon people, be honest!

Freshmen year grades (particularly the 1st semester's) often destroy pre-med GPAs. MIT's 1st semester is pass-fail.

My point being there's no point in comparing MIT vs. "Bomblef0ck." Compare programs if you will...a MIT literature 3.4 is a lot less impressive than a 3.4 in aero-eng at MIT/Caltech, etc...

Top schools inherently have better research opportunities, more funding for various activities, more motivated classmates for collaborative stuff via clubs, etc...so your application tends to be better...but for the GPA = GPA comparisons, it's hard...that's why they have the MCAT.

Note how Canadian med schools have a pretty good handle on Canadian undergraduate institutions' reputations...therefore these days Canadian med schools don't even require the MCAT...just your GPA.

 

[garconfrancais]

My point being there's no point in comparing MIT vs. "Bomblef0ck." Compare programs if you will...a MIT literature 3.4 is a lot less impressive than a 3.4 in aero-eng at MIT/Caltech, etc...

Top schools inherently have better research opportunities, more funding for various activities, more motivated classmates for collaborative stuff via clubs, etc...so your application tends to be better...but for the GPA = GPA comparisons, it's hard...that's why they have the MCAT.

Point well taken but I disagree with your argument. Students at highly rated universities can work extremely hard and not receive excellent grades. This doesn't say anything about their work ethic or intelligence, it actually reflects the high caliber of their peers. Saying that you can't compare gpa between schools discredits the fact that some universities have a higher concentration of brilliant, hard working students. If an average student from one of those universities were in a less competitive environment, not only would they be taking classes with people who might spend less time studying, but the studying they did would actually take them farther in relation to their classmates.

Additionally, while top schools may have more research opportunities, etc., there is probably a higher proportion of people seeking them out.

 

[Gospe1]

I'm at a top 15 med school. 80% of my class comes from Ivies, Stanford, or little Ivies. Could you be in that 20%? Sure. Is it likely? Statistically no.

 

[premed20092013]

What about schools like Emory/Rice/Vanderbilt/Notre Dame. Would prestige help at all?

I am a freshman at Vanderbilt, and I am getting dominated in a lot of classes. My friends and I work our butts off, but when grades come around we get screwed. I am scared I won't be able to become a doctor after spending 200,000 on an undergraduate degree.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Point well taken but I disagree with your argument. Students at highly rated universities can work extremely hard and not receive excellent grades. This doesn't say anything about their work ethic or intelligence, it actually reflects the high caliber of their peers. Saying that you can't compare gpa between schools discredits the fact that some universities have a higher concentration of brilliant, hard working students. If an average student from one of those universities were in a less competitive environment, not only would they be taking classes with people who might spend less time studying, but the studying they did would actually take them farther in relation to their classmates.

Additionally, while top schools may have more research opportunities, etc., there is probably a higher proportion of people seeking them out.

and grade inflation

edit: anyone else bugged by the title

 

[Gospe1]

I think it does help although at my school only 1 person comes from those schools you mentioned. I can tell you I come from one of those schools i mentioned and I was not in the top 25% of my undergrad GPA-wise. So, in my case, school > decent but not excellent grades.

 

[garconfrancais]

and grade inflation

edit: anyone else bugged by the title

What about grade inflation? Although I can only speak for my school, I don't think it's a problem. I see a bunch of smart, hard working people who don't get A's. And anyway, if people work hard in general and don't deserve a bad grade, why should teachers give them?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

What about grade inflation? Although I can only speak for my school, I don't think it's a problem. I see a bunch of smart, hard working people who don't get A's. And anyway, if people work hard in general and don't deserve a bad grade, why should teachers give them?

i don't know about the various podunk Us of the world, but surely they work hard in general as well.

 

[SamyRamadan]

and grade inflation

edit: anyone else bugged by the title

HAHA yeah, I was just about to post on that. Please use proper spelling.

 

[jturkel]

i think it helps to go to a top 20 school, an IVY or something similar, but it is not necessary. I went to my state school which is not in California, Michigan, Virginia, NC, IL, but still respectable nonetheless and i'm getting interviews at top 15 schools (WUSTL, Vandy, UChicago to name a few).

a 4.0 at say a Harvard or Yale looks better than a 4.0 usually from say, a U of A. But the IVY's, particularly Harvard (princeton NOT in this category), are notorious for grade inflation. In fact, if you graduate with below a 3.5 at Harvard, ADCOMs will look at your app funny because Harvard's grade inflation is quite well known.

the MCAT definitely helps clear up discrepancies and confusion caused by GPA and grade inflation from different schools..etc...

just do well in college and don't worry about it lol

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'm at a top 15 med school. 80% of my class comes from Ivies, Stanford, or little Ivies. Could you be in that 20%? Sure. Is it likely? Statistically no.

The Ivies, public Ivies, little Ivies, etc also pump out a huge chunk of the applicant pool (and an even huger chunk of the competitive applicant pool). It takes a lot of work ethic and smarts to get into a top college, that doesn't get reset the first day of freshman year.

 

[Slack3r]

Wow, this is the type of misleading information that seems to always circulate around SDN.

People on the admissions committee have confirmed that the undergraduate institution does matter to some extent.

End of discussion.

To some extent, eh? So pretty negligible? You'll also concede that the adcom you're referring to (LizzyM I assume?) is only one admissions officer at ONE school? So this hardly seems like a widespread phenomena, wouldn't you agree? We can argue this all day.. who would be favored between a 4.0 from MIT vs. a 4.0 from, say, U.Arizona assuming similar ECs and MCAT? Even then, you don't have a definitive answer outside hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

So I'll still stick to my original logic (which is actually a half-assed quote from "Superbad" if you didn't catch it) that going to a cheap state school will not hurt your chances at med school. Not only that, you'll probably enjoy yourself a little bit more, too.

 

[jturkel]

To some extent, eh? So pretty negligible? You'll also concede that the adcom you're referring to (LizzyM I assume?) is only one admissions officer at ONE school? So this hardly seems like a widespread phenomena, wouldn't you agree? We can argue this all day.. who would be favored between a 4.0 from MIT vs. a 4.0 from, say, U.Arizona assuming similar ECs and MCAT? Even then, you don't have a definitive answer outside hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

So I'll still stick to my original logic (which is actually a half-assed quote from "Superbad" if you didn't catch it) that going to a cheap state school will not hurt your chances at med school. Not only that, you'll probably enjoy yourself a little bit more, too.

yay! fellow wildcat! lol... our school is fine. no worries. it hasnt hurt me at all. in fact, it has set me apart from a lot of other applicants....something called "diversity"...different experiences in Tucson/Arizona/Southwest than most competitive schools/Ives/etc

 

[Slack3r]

Yea, I'll be the first to say I've been pretty satisfied with my experience. I've never fancied myself much of an Ivy-Leaguer, anyway. Not for lack of ability or intellect, more along the lack of motivation or desire. Having a "Harvard Alumni" license plate never tickled my fancy like some people on here. 🙄

 

[jturkel]

Yea, I'll be the first to say I've pretty satisfied with my experience. I've never fancied myself much of an Ivy-Leaguer, anyway. Not for lack of ability or intellect, more along the lack of motivation or desire. Having a "Harvard Alumni" license plate never tickled my fancy like some people on here. 🙄

i graduated last semester (May 2009) and i couldn't be happier with U of A. I had lots of other options with names, but decided to go to U of A b/c i could get just as good as an education as elsewhere (IMO, you get out what you put in).....and it was free lol

 

[CoolWhipp]

... We can argue this all day... cheap state school will not hurt your chances at med school...

Schools have a major impact. You can argue this all day as well. You live in Arizona (Go Cards), but it's like a bubble there (this is opinion). There is no stratification of 4 year University rankings like there is in California and New York. Now, you can argue rankings all day. I do, I think US News is BS. But you can never take away from the fact that if you want to play with the big boys (Ivy's) then you gotta have an Ivy-like representation on your application for the most part.

Look at California medical schools, each class is heavily populated by ivy league grads. Maybe ivy league grads on average are more competitive, whatever. You can rationalize it all you want, ivy league grads get more attention, period.

 

[joshinjosh]

The real question is whether or not you can siginficantly do better at a say top 50-100 university vs a 20-50. Also, is having a better gpa at a the top 50-100 school worth possibly losing opportunities (connections, volunteer, researh, extracuricullar) you could have at the larger university?

 

[JJMrK]

If you have a low GPA from a "prestigious" school, the school's name is not going to help you. If you have a 4.0 from a no name school, no one is going to take any credit away from you. GPA always trumps undergrad. Go to the school where you can get better numbers, or the school that's cheaper.

 

[jturkel]

Maybe ivy league grads on average are more competitive, whatever. You can rationalize it all you want, ivy league grads get more attention, period.

I agree with the first sentence. Not necessarily with the second. One would assume that an individual with high gpa, SAT/ACT, etc.....would go to a school with a great reputation....an IVY, etc......but, that isnt always the case. i can say that most of the top students in my high school class stayed in-state and we all went to school for free (we did have those who chose to go to stanford, princeton, yale, harvard, etc).

you see a greater percentage of those enrolled at top tier medical schools from these schools....because more often than not (aka not always the case) these individuals attended a top undergraduate school. however, there are still plenty of those who attended their state institution for free....and can perform just as well as those who went to IVYs and the like. just not as common.....which is why most come from the IVYs....not state schools.

as far as getting more attention, i would almost disagree with you here. many of those applying to and enrolled at top medical schools go/went to IVYs and the like....making them a dime a dozen in their class/applicant pool for that school/round. schools like diversity, people of different backgrounds, interests , upbringing, experiences.....i would venture to say that the person from a school that is seen less common stands out more (for obvious reasons) and maybe even given greater attention to in the reviewing of their application.

 

[oaklandguy]

No. Go to a state school where the girls are half as smart and thus twice as likely to fellate you.

The cause-effect relationship here is flawed, depending on who the person is in this case the less intelligent girls may be unintelligent to the point where they do not understand the importance of the authority of the title "pre-med" and instead care more about titles such as "starting quarterback" which in this case would lead to one pre-med candidate not being treated to his deserving fellacio.

Dismissing the above paragraph as sarcasm much like Slack3r's quote was probably intended to be taken as, I do tend to believe that undergraduate school does matter. How much it matters is dependent on many different variables and much has been mentioned earlier on how higher gpa is better than a low gpa at an amazing institution. What is more important than institution is MCAT, gpa, and extra curriculars. If you fiddle around your entire undergrad and you went to Princeton your less likely to get in than the hardworking student who has the grades, MCAT, and activities to show for it from *insert fourth tier university here* (wastern michigan) or something of that nature.

 

[oaklandguy]

No. Go to a state school where the girls are half as smart and thus twice as likely to fellate you.

The cause-effect relationship here is flawed, depending on who the person is in this case the less intelligent girls may be unintelligent to the point where they do not understand the importance of the authority of the title "pre-med" and instead care more about titles such as "starting quarterback" which in this case would lead to one pre-med candidate not being treated to his deserving fellacio.

Dismissing the above paragraph as sarcasm much like Slack3r's quote was probably intended to be taken as, I do tend to believe that undergraduate school does matter. How much it matters is dependent on many different variables and much has been mentioned earlier on how higher gpa is better than a low gpa at an amazing institution. What is more important than institution is MCAT, gpa, and extra curriculars. If you fiddle around your entire undergrad and you went to Princeton your less likely to get in than the hardworking student who has the grades, MCAT, and activities to show for it from *insert fourth tier university here* (wastern michigan) or something of that nature.