Does what you do with your summers have any impact on residency etc?

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mac_kin said:
out of curiostiy. Does what you do with your 4 month summers have any impact later on, on residency, fellowships, jobs etc??

I.e. if I choose to screw around abroad for 3 months vs a classmate who saves a village in Africa vs someone who does research all summer. Do I look worse off, as the delinquent who played for 3 months..while others "saved lives".


Thanks for honest feedback!
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We only had one summer and it was 2 months long. I choose to do research, but that's becuase it paid my rent and was very easy going. I have heard from some people that it helps and from others that it does not. It seems to vary by programs, specialty, etc.
 
Depends what you're going into. For neurosurgery or ortho or something, sure. For IM, general surgery, etc., probably not.

The thing is, during third and fourth year people take out time to do research as well... and you can always request a year off to do work if you REALLY want to do something involved at some point. Clinical research is a pretty minimal time requirement.

So if you decide (like me) not to do research during the summer, don't worry about it. You have time down the road.
 
As someone interviewing for residency now, I would say it depends on how many other activities/research experiences/trips to Africa you have on that CV. If you have some things to put down on that application, and research projects or trips abroad to discuss during your interview (or get you an interview!), then you are fine and should relax. If the CV is looking a little sparse for activities during medical school, then I would definitely suggest doing something over the summer.
 
mac_kin said:
out of curiostiy. Does what you do with your 4 month summers have any impact later on, on residency, fellowships, jobs etc??

I.e. if I choose to screw around abroad for 3 months vs a classmate who saves a village in Africa vs someone who does research all summer. Do I look worse off, as the delinquent who played for 3 months..while others "saved lives".


Thanks for honest feedback!
Click to expand...

As already mentioned: there's only one summer to speak of, between first and second year. Mine was something like two and a half months.

Seems like the consensus is that it only really matters if you're going into a very competitive specialty. I'm personally not convinced that a relaxing summer couldn't be "made up for" by a stellar Step score, great clinical evals / LoRs, or great interviews. Or, if it suits you, research experience elsewhere.

SDN has a tendency to make people walk away with an exaggerated sense of what's necessary.
 
I hope my future residency gets a kick out of my activities i did over the summer:
I plan on applying to Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Medicine (PM&R) residency programs. I trained for, and completed, a Full IronMan this past summer. I don't think it is as good as having completed a research project--however, I do think it offers a glimpse into the type of person an applicant is. I believe, with a bit of hear-say, that being athletically inclined bodes well for those interested in PM&R. So, I'm not sure it would have the same effect in all residency programs, but I sure as hell don't feel like I "wasted" my summer.
 
No one cares how you spend that time, even in competitive specialties. They have no idea what your break schedule is like, and they won't ask you. It is, however, a golden opportunity to get something done for your CV. Research is probably the only thing that will make a difference. So if you can find a good research project and you want to do something competitive then go for it. I wouldn't bother with volunteer experiences, medical missions abroad, etc., unless you have a real passion for them, and even then, realize you are doing it mostly for fun not career advancement. The truth is that no one really cares about this stuff.
 
cpants said:
No one cares how you spend that time, even in competitive specialties. They have no idea what your break schedule is like, and they won't ask you. It is, however, a golden opportunity to get something done for your CV.
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👍👍

This. You do need to have SOMETHING on your CV. If you want to take summer off then fine, but you need to do stuff eventually. I have an awful lot of classmates who got to application time and were floundering for anything to put on their CVs. Many got desperate and put undergrad activities, others put pretty flimsy stuff that was really part of a class.

Too many people get to med school and feel like they have finally arrived and can just chill and just study. However, for a lot of specialties you need to do something to make yourself stand out. Especially for the super competitive ones (ortho, ophtho, derm) you need to do research, for everything else you just need to do something.

If you don't do much I see a few issues that can come up.
1) Depending on your board scores you may not have that extra something to get you the interview invite
2) You will have nothing to talk about in interviews
3) Most interviews I've gone on have asked what I will bring to their residency/what will be my legacy/what i will contribute...I'm not sure how someone answers that if they don't have some sort of passion that they were pursuing and contributing to their school or community during medical school.
 
cpants said:
No one cares how you spend that time, even in competitive specialties. They have no idea what your break schedule is like, and they won't ask you. It is, however, a golden opportunity to get something done for your CV. Research is probably the only thing that will make a difference. So if you can find a good research project and you want to do something competitive then go for it. I wouldn't bother with volunteer experiences, medical missions abroad, etc., unless you have a real passion for them, and even then, realize you are doing it mostly for fun not career advancement. The truth is that no one really cares about this stuff.
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Wonderful words spoken from someone probably not going into a tough specialty or who got a 250+ on step one.

The reality is people do "care". They won't specifically ask "what did you do over the summer?". They will look at your CV/Application for research/extracurriculars/externships/presentations/publications etc. Not all all of us can get amazing board scores, so it is the little things in the application that put you in good shape for competitive specialties like derm/ortho/ophtho/uro/ent.

The first summer out of medical school is the easiest time to pad your application with this kind of stuff. It makes life easier when application time comes up and you have to fill these applications out with meaningful activities. In addition, these meaningful activities may garner you strong and unique LOR's from the faculty you work with and can lead to more interview offers etc. You don't have to save the world in between first and second year, but it is in your best interest to do SOMETHING worthwhile. Even the iron man competition is worthwhile. Guaranteed that will impress a great deal of programs and will be discussed at interviews and will make for a strong personal statement etc.
 
Will not doing research or doing research that doesn't necessarily lead to publication mean that I'll be doomed to a Family Practice residency in rural Montana or South Dakota? Lets say if I choose to participate in my school's summer programs for pre-meds (and get a stipend), can I do that and still show that I'll be a halfway good doctor?

note: I'm not looking to do neurosurg and all those crazy competitive specialties but I want to get the best program I can and enjoy my only summer off
 
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EyeGuy15 said:
Wonderful words spoken from someone probably not going into a tough specialty or who got a 250+ on step one.

The reality is people do "care". They won't specifically ask "what did you do over the summer?". They will look at your CV/Application for research/extracurriculars/externships/presentations/publications etc. Not all all of us can get amazing board scores, so it is the little things in the application that put you in good shape for competitive specialties like derm/ortho/ophtho/uro/ent.

The first summer out of medical school is the easiest time to pad your application with this kind of stuff. It makes life easier when application time comes up and you have to fill these applications out with meaningful activities. In addition, these meaningful activities may garner you strong and unique LOR's from the faculty you work with and can lead to more interview offers etc. You don't have to save the world in between first and second year, but it is in your best interest to do SOMETHING worthwhile. Even the iron man competition is worthwhile. Guaranteed that will impress a great deal of programs and will be discussed at interviews and will make for a strong personal statement etc.
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Bad read. I'm actually doing one of the competitive specialties you mentioned, and my board score doesn't come anywhere near 250. I did absolutely nothing over that first summer. You know how many times it came up during my 20+ interviews. Zero. Granted, I have had other interesting experiences in my background, and I found some time to do some research during elective and vacation time later on. Like I said, if you find a productive project to get on during the summer, then go for it. Otherwise you are wasting your time. Better to spend the time relaxing and get ready to hit the books hard come fall than to waste a lot of money and time doing medical tourism.
 
cpants said:
Bad read. I'm actually doing one of the competitive specialties you mentioned, and my board score doesn't come anywhere near 250. I did absolutely nothing over that first summer. You know how many times it came up during my 20+ interviews. Zero. Granted, I have had other interesting experiences in my background, and I found some time to do some research during elective and vacation time later on. Like I said, if you find a productive project to get on during the summer, then go for it. Otherwise you are wasting your time. Better to spend the time relaxing and get ready to hit the books hard come fall than to waste a lot of money and time doing medical tourism.
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True. If you feel comfortable with your other experiences then your are absolutely correct. However, most medical students do not have these other "interesting experiences" and can't find time otherwise after second year etc. My medical school gave us basically 2.5 months off so it was a no brainer to do so. Plus, in all honesty, I am sure you are doing very well on the interview process with 20+ interviews(which is incredibly rare to have that many interviews in ANY competitive specialty, so you must have very solid extracurriculars/activities etc. application). However, I still think you are the exception. I just matched in ophthalmology and with around 250-300 applicants every year who do not match with all kinds of scores, the last thing you want to think about is "what if" in regards to pursuing research/building connections etc.

"Medical tourism" I agree is a waste of time and money if someone is trying to show dedication to a field of medicine. People are better off doing legitimate work at a legitimate institution.

It is getting harder every year to get into any difficult specialty in medicine, so every opportunity for research/connections/unique experiences should be taken advantage of.
 
I don't know if I would say that not doing research is okay for a field like radonc. It seems to be an unwritten law that you have to be published in order to have a good chance at matching into this field. According to the 2009 NRMP data, the avg. radonc applicant had 8 publications/abstracts/posters. That's a ridiculous amount! The percentage of applicants who weren't published was in the single digits, IIRC (less than five percent). And the field had the highest percentage of MD/PhDs. From what I understand, after hanging around the radonc forums for a while as well as talking to those on the interview trail currently, you pretty much have to say that you want to stay in academia and are not interested in PP!

If that's the case and you're interested in this specialty, do you really want to make it harder on yourself by not conducting research? What cpants said may be true for radiology, but I don't know if it would hold the same for radonc, a field that emphasizes research so much more than nearly any other field.
 
KissMyAsthma98 said:
As someone interviewing for residency now, I would say it depends on how many other activities/research experiences/trips to Africa you have on that CV. If you have some things to put down on that application, and research projects or trips abroad to discuss during your interview (or get you an interview!), then you are fine and should relax. If the CV is looking a little sparse for activities during medical school, then I would definitely suggest doing something over the summer.
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Just out of curiosity, since CVs change depending on what your goal is, what do you put on CVs for residency? Do you put workshops (like Anesthesiology Workshops) you attend during basic science years? Obviously various research projects go on there, as well as leadership positions you have in school, but I can't imagine putting something like 'Family Medicine Interest Group' on a CV like you might've put 'pre-med society' on for med school...
 
mvenus929 said:
Just out of curiosity, since CVs change depending on what your goal is, what do you put on CVs for residency? Do you put workshops (like Anesthesiology Workshops) you attend during basic science years? Obviously various research projects go on there, as well as leadership positions you have in school, but I can't imagine putting something like 'Family Medicine Interest Group' on a CV like you might've put 'pre-med society' on for med school...
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Generally you would only put big things. Research projects, interest groups in which you were on the board, community service groups, etc.

I don't think many people would put a single workshop they attended on their CV, but then I don't think many people should put that they are a member of a pre-med society either.
 
alwaysaangel said:
👍👍

This. You do need to have SOMETHING on your CV. If you want to take summer off then fine, but you need to do stuff eventually. I have an awful lot of classmates who got to application time and were floundering for anything to put on their CVs. Many got desperate and put undergrad activities, others put pretty flimsy stuff that was really part of a class.

Too many people get to med school and feel like they have finally arrived and can just chill and just study. However, for a lot of specialties you need to do something to make yourself stand out. Especially for the super competitive ones (ortho, ophtho, derm) you need to do research, for everything else you just need to do something.

If you don't do much I see a few issues that can come up.
1) Depending on your board scores you may not have that extra something to get you the interview invite
2) You will have nothing to talk about in interviews
3) Most interviews I've gone on have asked what I will bring to their residency/what will be my legacy/what i will contribute...I'm not sure how someone answers that if they don't have some sort of passion that they were pursuing and contributing to their school or community during medical school.
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When you say do something, what do you mean? I'm not into research at all. What can I do during the year? Clubs and stuff?
 
MedStudentWanna said:
When you say do something, what do you mean? I'm not into research at all. What can I do during the year? Clubs and stuff?
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Honestly, I would just do one or two things which interest you, and do them right--meaning spend a lot of time on those activities, become an officer, do big projects, grow the organization. It's a hell of a lot more impressive to have leadership roles in one or two things than to be a member of 20.
 
If you're the founder of an interest group is that legit enough to put on a residency app?
 
I straight up napped through the entirety of my MS1 summer. No regrets, yet or ever. Naps are serious.
 
Research experience is only REALLY useful if it leads to a piblication of some sort. If you've spent several months doing research but don't have an application to show for it, you can talk about what you learned (writing grant applications, reviewing literature, teamwork, whatever) but it won't matter too much.

Also, research is only really necessary for the terribly competetive fields. Nice in almost any field, but mostly no one cares as much as med students do. If you DO end up deciding to go into one of those super-star fields (rad-onc, derm, ortho) you could always take a year off (between M2/M3 or M3/M4 or even delay your graduation) and really get some meaningful work done in your field of choice. IMHO, this is much better route than trying to cram tiny bits of research into your few, well deserved breaks.

This is one of the last times (other than 4th year) when you can be completely guilt free about taking time off.

Relax. Travel. Date. Play video games. Learn to surf. Enjoy your summer.
 
our summer is only 4 weeks. I'm getting married that summer. Can I put that on my CV? lol. I'm kind of just like whatever. If a residency program has a big problem with that...I don't want to go there!
 
I have to admit, I'm curious about this as well. I did research for two years as an undergrad and took a year off before med school and worked in the same lab on the same project. Because of the nature of the project, however, I was not published (it's a decade-plus endeavor). Now I'm starting med school in the fall and I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to be competitive for residencies. I am really interested in reconstructive surgery (meaning ENT or plastics residencies) and will most likely be doing my residency through the Air Force (HPSP).

How do you cram meaningful research into a 6-week summer term? How do you find time to do research during the school year? My work during undergrad took 10-20 hours/week for over 6 months; I can't imagine finding that much time in what so many people describe as an insane med school schedule.

I should also mention that I am married, which means I don't have the option to spend every spare moment in the lab like I did as a single undergrad. If I do that, I doubt I'll stay married for long! 😛
 
cpants said:
Bad read. I'm actually doing one of the competitive specialties you mentioned, and my board score doesn't come anywhere near 250. I did absolutely nothing over that first summer. You know how many times it came up during my 20+ interviews. Zero. Granted, I have had other interesting experiences in my background, and I found some time to do some research during elective and vacation time later on. Like I said, if you find a productive project to get on during the summer, then go for it. Otherwise you are wasting your time. Better to spend the time relaxing and get ready to hit the books hard come fall than to waste a lot of money and time doing medical tourism.
Click to expand...

Kaushik said:
I don't know if I would say that not doing research is okay for a field like radonc. It seems to be an unwritten law that you have to be published in order to have a good chance at matching into this field. According to the 2009 NRMP data, the avg. radonc applicant had 8 publications/abstracts/posters. That's a ridiculous amount! The percentage of applicants who weren't published was in the single digits, IIRC (less than five percent). And the field had the highest percentage of MD/PhDs. From what I understand, after hanging around the radonc forums for a while as well as talking to those on the interview trail currently, you pretty much have to say that you want to stay in academia and are not interested in PP!

If that's the case and you're interested in this specialty, do you really want to make it harder on yourself by not conducting research? What cpants said may be true for radiology, but I don't know if it would hold the same for radonc, a field that emphasizes research so much more than nearly any other field.
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Having done research with a rad onc (though I'm not interested in the field myself), I agree with the above that research and publications are pretty much a requirement in this field. However, I agree with cpants that if you don't find a really productive place to work during your M1 summer, it doesn't help you much. I did research both for a year before med school and during my M1 summer (different fields), and even have toyed with the idea of doing a research year between M3 and M4 (yes, I love academia THAT much). I've been really lucky to work with very productive PIs, and may be going into the match in a couple of years with 3-4 peer reviewed pubs (6-7 total).

However, I did research in clinical outcomes, which is a very easy place to publish. If you're doing basic science research, you aren't going to get anything productive done in 2.5 months. So, basically, research isn't required and if you don't think you're going to get published (or present at a national conference, ie., through the national fellowship I got), don't do it that summer. However, if you're looking at something like radonc for sure (and maybe derm, neurosurg, etc.), it's highly recommended to do a year off to do research at the NIH, HHMI, or whatever.
 
I'm just a medical student, I have neither the benefit of applying for residency or help choose applicants.

But the way I see it, at some point we're all going to have to sit down and interview with someone. At that point, you're going to need something to talk about.

Grades and academics got you there, you can't really discuss the finer points of a number like 3.4 or a 234. Talking about how you spend all your time sitting on your butt isn't going to be the best conversation. At the end of the day, the question comes down to "Do you have enough ammo to talk about yourself through the duration of an interview and convey why you'll make a good physician and co-worker while distinguishing yourself as an individual worth remembering?"

If you need the summer to gather some ammo, go for it. If you're active enough throughout the year, then take a breather. Travel can provide a lot to talk about as long as you have other more academic topics to fill out the rest of the conversation...
 
I'll be going on a medical brigade to guatemala for about 5 weeks. In addition to working hands-on learning to use diagnostic equipment a few months in advance of our classmates in a clinic we get Spanish language instruction. We also do a homestay with a Guatemalan family. I minored in Spanish as an undergrad so I feel like I am getting alot out of this program.

Even though it costs over $2500 I would still do it even if it wouldn't do a thing for my residency applications. But I like to think it would help.
 
organdonor said:
I'll be going on a medical brigade to guatemala for about 5 weeks. In addition to working hands-on learning to use diagnostic equipment a few months in advance of our classmates in a clinic we get Spanish language instruction. We also do a homestay with a Guatemalan family. I minored in Spanish as an undergrad so I feel like I am getting alot out of this program.

Even though it costs over $2500 I would still do it even if it wouldn't do a thing for my residency applications. But I like to think it would help.
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It won't do a thing for your residency applications. Sorry. But it sounds like an awesome trip, so enjoy.
 
Applying into ENT. I didn't do jack the summer after MS1 except camp, drink beer, and go to the gym. I got more interviews than I was interested or capable of attending and no one mentioned anything about my first two years of medical school at any of my interviews.

It doesn't do anything. If you choose to use the summer to do research or save babies in Africa or something it may add a small interesting layer to your application, but if you choose to do nothing, it's not a negative. And the summer after MS1 isn't the only time you can do research. Some of my classmates did benchwork during MS2. I did clinical research during MS3 and got a couple pubs out of it. There's time elsewhere if you eventually settle on a specialty where research is important.

DeadCactus said:
I'm just a medical student, I have neither the benefit of applying for residency or help choose applicants.

But the way I see it, at some point we're all going to have to sit down and interview with someone. At that point, you're going to need something to talk about.

Grades and academics got you there, you can't really discuss the finer points of a number like 3.4 or a 234. Talking about how you spend all your time sitting on your butt isn't going to be the best conversation. At the end of the day, the question comes down to "Do you have enough ammo to talk about yourself through the duration of an interview and convey why you'll make a good physician and co-worker while distinguishing yourself as an individual worth remembering?"

If you need the summer to gather some ammo, go for it. If you're active enough throughout the year, then take a breather. Travel can provide a lot to talk about as long as you have other more academic topics to fill out the rest of the conversation...
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You're going to be surprised how bland and uninteresting residency interviews are. 99% of your interviews will be a combination of:
1. Why this specialty?
2. Tell me about your research.
3. Tell me about yourself.
4. Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
5. Do you have any questions for me?
Most interviews are 15-20 minutes so once you get through the above BS the time's almost always over anyways. And honestly, faculty generally don't give to ****s if you went abroad to build fresh water wells or deliver babies. It may paint an altruistic picture of your personality but has no bearing on whether you'll be a dependable and quality resident.
 
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For those that chilled during M1/M2 summer, did u have prior research or did u mange to squeeze some in during M2 or clinical yrs?
 
Bernoull said:
For those that chilled during M1/M2 summer, did u have prior research or did u mange to squeeze some in during M2 or clinical yrs?
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Managed to get some in during third year.
 
2012mdc said:
Not even in primary care?
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No not even in primary care. These programs aren't impressive. It's essentially a medicine themed vacation, and they realize this. It's the equivalent of all those summer leadership conferences that people did in high school.
 
🙂
 
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cpants said:
No not even in primary care. These programs aren't impressive. It's essentially a medicine themed vacation, and they realize this. It's the equivalent of all those summer leadership conferences that people did in high school.
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Oh ok. I was just curious, I never did any of those programs and not interested in primary care but some of my classmates did stuff like go to Haiti. I didn't know residency programs would view something like that as a vacation.

Another option is to do some informal shadowing in areas that you are interested in. Not to help your CV but to rule stuff in or out especially if you get little or no elective rotations during M3.
 
cpants said:
Managed to get some in during third year.
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i see, did u have to bump some rotations to 4th yr to make room for research? Also can one use elective time for research?

thanks in advance...
 
Bernoull said:
i see, did u have to bump some rotations to 4th yr to make room for research? Also can one use elective time for research?

thanks in advance...
Click to expand...

I had two weeks off at the end of third year. That was the only dedicated time. I worked on nights, weekends, post-call days for 4-5 months. It wasn't easy but I got some clinical projects done.
 
mvenus929 said:
I imagine this will vary by school, but my school allows up to 8 weeks of elective time research.
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cpants said:
I had two weeks off at the end of third year. That was the only dedicated time. I worked on nights, weekends, post-call days for 4-5 months. It wasn't easy but I got some clinical projects done.
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Thanks guys, i appreciate the info.
 
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