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divinexlight

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Hey guys,
I wanted to create a thread where other pre-med and med students can give me (and anyone else in my position) the "I wish I would have done" and the "I wish I would have known this back then" type of advice.

I am starting my freshman year in my community college's honors program (with high transfer rates to UCLA and other UC's) and would like to know what pitfalls to avoid and most importantly how to myself a competitive applicant for a top medical education. I have big dreams, with my eyes set on Columbia, Harvard, or UCLA (Geffen) medical school. I will be applying for a joint MD/MPH degree.

Basically, what do I have to do (starting this year) in order to get that acceptance letter?

Thanks = )
 
Last edited:
Hey guys,
I wanted to create a thread where other pre-med and med students can give me (and anyone else in my position) the "I wish I would have done" and the "I wish I would have known this back then" type of advice.

I am starting my freshman year in my community college's honors program (with high transfer rates to UCLA and other UC's) and would like to know what pitfalls to avoid and most importantly how to myself a competitive applicant for a top medical education. I have big dreams, with my eyes set on Columbia, Harvard, or UCLA (Geffen) medical school. I will be applying for a joint MD/MPH degree.

Basically, what do I have to do (starting this year) in order to get that acceptance letter?

Thanks = )

1: Shoot for Columbia, Harvard, or UCLA, but understand that your chances are slim and you should be happy with an acceptance to any medical school in the country. Except Touro.

2: Your GPA is going to follow you around for years, especially during this process. Keep it as high as possible. On top of the usual work-hard-and-do-your-best schtick, learn to pick your battles. Don't sign up for P-chem, advanced astrophysics, structural biology, Russian IX, and statistics for statisticians during your first semester. Take the tough courses in your major and do well, but design the rest of your schedule around classes with a high chance of getting an A (so-called "gut classes"). You won't know these classes at the beginning, but knowledge of them will spread by word of mouth.

3: When you identify a gut class don't blow it off because you think it will be a joke. Put in the time to nail it down, even if the time commitment is small.

4: It's hard to move your GPA after your first year. If you begin with 30 credits of 3.0, getting it to even a 3.5 over 90 more credits is a Sisyphean ordeal. Come out of the gates strong.
 
Hey guys,
I wanted to create a thread where other pre-med and med students can give me (and anyone else in my position) the "I wish I would have done" and the "I wish I would have known this back then" type of advice.

I am starting my freshman year in my community college's honors program (with high transfer rates to UCLA and other UC's) and would like to know what pitfalls to avoid and most importantly how to myself a competitive applicant for a top medical education. I have big dreams, with my eyes set on Columbia, Harvard, or UCLA (Geffen) medical school. I will be applying for a joint MD/MPH degree.

Basically, what do I have to do (starting this year) in order to get that acceptance letter?

Thanks = )

Two things

1. Didn't know a community college had an honors program

2. Search or scroll through the threads to find advice

Your first post score= C-
 
5: Learn to deal with people who are, shall we say, sometimes less than helpful.

6: First attempt to help yourself, if first attempt fails then try again. After two failed attempts then ask for help.

Also the first rule of SDN is to never talk about SDN outside of SDN
 
If you are aiming for top schools, then save science classes for the university. You will be up against the country's top applicants who will generally have 3.8+ GPAs from ivy leagues, and rightly or wrongly, CC credits are seen as less rigorous.
 
6: First attempt to help yourself, if first attempt fails then try again. After two failed attempts then ask for help.

That would nearly eliminate all drama on this forum, which would be a terrible waste.
 
I don't think that going to a community college your first year is that big of a deal as long as you get good grades when you transfer to a university. I guess my biggest advice is to just study and get those A's. It also wouldn't hurt to look for research positions very early in the game as well.
 
country's top applicants who will generally have 3.8+ GPAs from ivy leagues

Exactly how good is that? Doesn't that mean they didn't have much time to spend elsewhere?
 
I'm not going to bother trying to have more numbers...

- don't overload yourself or overestimate your abilities. I did that once in Freshman year and I slipped from a 3.8+ to a 3.5 and took me two years to work my way back up to a 3.67. Obviously the 3.8 is better. Know your limits.

- don't forget to ask for help if you need it. It doesn't make you stupider than anyone else. If you need tutoring in a certain subject, get it. Utilize your resources.

- Do balance out your schedule. Don't take only hard science classes in a semester/quarter if you can help it. Mix some intro to anthro with your physics class. And if you go to UCI, never take Orgo and Physics at the same time. Not sure what its like at the other UCs but no one who did that I know (and they're generally smart), succeeded. Also, many of these fun easy classes you'll never get the opportunity to take again.

- Do find something fun that you like doing and do it. If you're passionate about a certain organization, join it. If you hate hospital volunteering, get a clinically oriented job. Don't do anything you don't like doing just for the sake of the application because you will come to hate it and it will lose any benefit it might have had. Also, projecting a negative attitude on others who may enjoy it, sucks.

- most important, make an effort to HAVE FUN. You only go through college once (when you're young at least) so try to get the most out of it. For me, college was the most amazing four years of my life despite the many sacrifices I had to make in order to do well. Go out with your friends, make new friends, do study-abroad if you can afford it, take dance classes etc. Make your experience unique. Yes, you're "pre-med", but you're also a young social being.

- finally, I realize that you have these bright eyed dreams of Harvard, Columbia and UCLA which are great. Keep in mind though that these schools are just that, schools not the holy grail. Any medical school in the country will turn you into a dr. Don't put these schools as the end goal because if you don't succeed, you won't be happy. Just try to do your best, and if your best gets you into one of these schools three or four years from now, then awesome.

:luck:
 
Make sure that almost everything you're doing with respect to classes/work/ECs is related to medical school somehow. Note: this does NOT mean you have to be involved only in medicine-related clubs, take only science classes, and work as an ER tech. It only means that everything you do should fit together as a puzzle; all of your individual activities should clearly point to one unified objective: become a physician. You should be able to explain why you did this particular activity and how it relates to you wanting to become a doctor.

In short, think reflectively about what you're doing. Many on SDN will consider this too intense/neurotic, but it really isn't. I have plenty of time to dick around and I'm involved in activities I genuinely love and enjoy. Doing yourself a favor and figuring out how to sell those activities doesn't make you a gunner or a resume padder.
 
Make sure that almost everything you're doing with respect to classes/work/ECs is related to medical school somehow. Note: this does NOT mean you have to be involved only in medicine-related clubs, take only science classes, and work as an ER tech. It only means that everything you do should fit together as a puzzle; all of your individual activities should clearly point to one unified objective: become a physician. You should be able to explain why you did this particular activity and how it relates to you wanting to become a doctor.

In short, think reflectively about what you're doing. Many on SDN will consider this too intense/neurotic, but it really isn't. I have plenty of time to dick around and I'm involved in activities I genuinely love and enjoy. Doing yourself a favor and figuring out how to sell those activities doesn't make you a gunner or a resume padder.

Most of my undergrad was spent doing things I wanted to do. Trying to figure out how to sell myself and justify my choice of activities was not something I wanted to do. I have objectives other than becoming a physician. The biggest toolboxes I met on the interview trail were the applicants that could explain how everything they did related to their "passion for medicine." Don't be a toolbox. Nobody likes a toolbox.

Edit: Don't misinterpret this as me calling you a toolbox. It's more of a precautionary tale. In other words, be careful, or you may become a toolbox.
 
Most of my undergrad was spent doing things I wanted to do. Trying to figure out how to sell myself and justify my choice of activities was not something I wanted to do. I have objectives other than becoming a physician. The biggest toolboxes I met on the interview trail were the applicants that could explain how everything they did related to their "passion for medicine." Don't be a toolbox. Nobody likes a toolbox.

I totally understand what you're saying. I'm far from that guy that says "zomg I've wanted to be a doctor forever and this activity means that etc. etc." Like you I did what I wanted to do. I love all of the activities that I'm involved in. Simply thinking about how they can used to support your application, though, doesn't automatically make you a toolbox IMO.
 
Go to class.

Doesn't matter how tired/hungover/lazy you're feeling. Just go

You will not believe how unbelievably hard this can be after a month into your first semester
 
Oh and one more thing.

When selecting those "gut" classes, take advice with a grain of salt. My school had its own teacher rating forum kind of like ratemyprofessor.com, and I made the mistake of overly trusting the opinions of what was posted on it a couple of times.

For one reason or another, people will oversimplify and talk up how "easy" a course is
 
I do have dreams of going to a top-tier school, however in the end my goal is to be a great physician, not an *insert school name here* graduate.

Lets say that I transfered to UCLA for my undergrad, would that not increase my chances of getting into UCLA med school?

Thanks for all the advice! I will definitely remember it when I start this summer.

"4: It's hard to move your GPA after your first year. If you begin with 30 credits of 3.0, getting it to even a 3.5 over 90 more credits is a Sisyphean ordeal. Come out of the gates strong."
I did not realize this. Thanks though, I never realized how important it is to start strong!
 
learn how to lie/bull**** effectively. probably the most useful asset one can have
 
this was actually a useful thread! thanks ladies and gents

some great advice
 
learn how to lie/bull**** effectively. probably the most useful asset one can have

This. it seems like applying for med school is at least in some part about bull****ing, being fake, etc. its like you have to know what kind of things to say in an interview/essay or else you can't get in...why do people always try to portray themselves (ie. in personal statements, etc) as a compassionate, thoughtful, empathetic people? why can't you get into med school if you just portray yourself as a super genius?
this kid I met the other day said he wants to be a doctor so that he "can work with intelligent people every day" and because its an ego boost for him and it challenges him...and that carries more weight in his decision then his desire to "help people"
 
This. it seems like applying for med school is at least in some part about bull****ing, being fake, etc. its like you have to know what kind of things to say in an interview/essay or else you can't get in...why do people always try to portray themselves (ie. in personal statements, etc) as a compassionate, thoughtful, empathetic people? why can't you get into med school if you just portray yourself as a super genius?
this kid I met the other day said he wants to be a doctor so that he "can work with intelligent people every day" and because its an ego boost for him and it challenges him...and that carries more weight in his decision then his desire to "help people"
Probably because most MS mission statements are designed to produce "compassionate caring physicians" who have a desire to heal and help, not egotistical geniuses.

The only way I could see this kid's argument going is if he wants to do academic medicine and find the cure for cancer. Research needs all the egotistical braniacs it can get
 
rule #6: never say you're sorry.
rule #7: always be specific when you lie.
rule #40: if you think someone is out to get you, they are.
 
Don't take hard classes because they're hard and you think they'll look good on your transcript. An A in a mid-level bio class looks better than a B- in PChem. Take classes you enjoy and you'll do well in.

Do well your freshman year! Don't spend your last three years trying to salvage your GPA. It's easy for your GPA to go down and much harder to bring it up, especially as you accumulate credit hours.

I really wish I'd known about SDN as a freshman....
 
Ok, so this post and my next post will be super long, but I (Along with another accepted pre-med) helped put together a "What I wish I'd known before applying" and "what I wish I'd know as a freshman" pamphlet for my school's pre-med club... here's the application one (sorry it's lengthy):
General
• Those who have not been through this process will likely not understand.
• Don't be ashamed to apply to osteopathic (D.O.) schools.
• "Deadlines" are not real. If the AMCAS is "due" in Nov., you're already late by Aug. If the secondary applications say they're due in Jan., they're late by Oct. Get everything turned in ASAP.
• Stats are not everything, but they're what get you an interview.
• You will not have any desire to discuss the process from the time you submit your AMCAS until the time you receive an acceptance letter.
• Look at the MSAR to decide which schools are good fits for you to apply to. Pay attention to the school's mission, their out-of-state acceptance rates, and their minimum MCAT and GPAs (applying with less than the average scores is worth it; applying with less than the minimum scores is probably not). One admissions officer stated that plausible schools are ones at which your (gpaX10)+MCAT if about equal to/higher than the school's average (gpaX10)+MCAT – 1.
• The process is EXPENSIVE; be prepared to spend.
• The old advice is to apply to 15-20 schools (but this was a couple decades ago with a lower number of applications). Most residents told me they applied to 25-40. Weigh the price of a few extra applications against the price of re-applying.
• California students get the short-end of the stick since California supposedly has the highest proportion of pre-meds to medical schools.
• Take easy classes senior year; it's a pain to travel for interviews otherwise.
• Regardless of how sure you are about your career path or the strength of your application, you will question yourself and your decision to go into this field during applications; it's normal and healthy.
• You may call the admissions staff to check on your application status. You may not call them every day after you submit your secondary (they don't like that… and some schools will even record in a file how often people call).
• If you really like a certain school, it may be beneficial to write a letter of interest or a letter of intent (and yes, these are slightly different) to get your name brought up if you are on hold for an interview, have just interviewed, or are on a waitlist.

MCAT
• Your first practice MCAT is NOT usually predictive of how you'll do on the test. Don't freak out.
• Take this NO later than the end of May or beginning of June in the year before you wish to start. For example, if you plan to start right after college, take the MCAT around April of your third year.
• The best thing you can do to prepare is to take a lot of practice tests. Once you've studied the basics, this test is all about practice.
• This is not a test you can "wing" or cram for. Being "smart" will not guarantee a decent score.

Letters of Recommendation
• When requesting a letter, ask the person if they can write you a "strong letter" (I know this is slightly controversial). If they don't seem enthusiastic, thank them for their time and find another letter writer.
• At the minimum, you need three letters. Two must be from science professors and one must be from a non-science professor. Most schools take up to 5 letters.
• Provide letter writers with a transcript, resume, copy of your personal statement, & an addressed/stamped envelope. Also, if you're worried about them mailing the letter on time, give them a self-addressed postcard for them to drop in the mail when they mail the letter.
• Ask that they write the letter several months before you need it. They can send them in as soon as you submit your AMCAS, but don't assign them to the school until they send you a secondary.


Application Essays
• Your application looks like thousands of others, but there is something that makes you unique. "Know thyself" and focus on your strengths and unusual experiences.
• Make sure they see the following: passion for the profession, maturity, compassion, motivation, & commitment.
• Write about one or two experiences in areas you're genuinely passionate about.
• Avoid: negativity/cynicism, arrogance, offensiveness, mistakes, a laundry list of activities/achievements, not explaining "why medicine," clichés, lies, and excuses.
• Secondary essays should show that you are human. Show some character in your writing but ensure you still sound professional.
• When editing your personal statement, have three types of editors: those reading to make sure it "sounds like you," those reading for content and style, & those reading for grammar/spelling. Give them permission to rip it up, & don't get attached to it. If you want to cry when you see the corrections, they've done a good job of editing.
• Plan on writing the following secondary essays: how would you add diversity/contribute to the med school, what is a challenge you have overcome, & why do you like our medical school?
• NEVER leave an "additional info" space blank. Enter in one of the above 3 essays.

Interviews
• Before an interview, get a feel for what the school is all about (research, primary care, underserved populations, etc.) and use this to come up with reasons why you like the school and why you'd be a great addition.
• Carefully consider the pros and cons of regional interviews. They're convenient at the time, but it's a pain to travel a second time in order to see the school if you're accepted. However, if you travel once you are accepted, you'll be more likely to pay attention to housing.
• Play it safe when it comes to interview attire (nice suit, etc.).
• Keep your interview suit and shoes in your carry-on. I've heard too many stories of luggage being lost on the way, and you don't need the added stress of last-minute shopping.
• ALWAYS bring your photo ID to an interview.
• Get all of your nerves out before an interview. You can "melt down" earlier in the day so you can compose yourself before you go to interview; you don't want nerves as you enter.
• "Fake it ‘til you make it": even if you feel like the butterflies in your stomach are going to flood out of your mouth en masse any moment, put on a smile, act calm and comfortable, and force yourself to sound confident. After a few minutes, it will come naturally.
• When asked your weakness, NEVER give a genuine weakness (unless you want to talk about how you're improving and are making it a strength… or if the weakness if "forgivable" like eating cookies at midnight). Instead, put a slightly negative spin on one of your strengths (e.g. "I sometimes work too hard" or "I have to be careful not to care too much").
• Know your top 3 strengths, top 3 weaknesses, what you do for fun, how to describe yourself, why you want to be a doctor, and what you'd do if you didn't get in/couldn't be a doctor.
• If asked what you'd do if you don't get in/couldn't be a doctor, always express first that you'd keep trying if you didn't get in and that you'd be disappointed if you couldn't pursue the career. Then, pick an alternative career and elaborate on why. Make sure you support it with qualities that would make you a great doctor (e.g. "I'd be a nurse/teacher/psychologist because I really want to make a difference in others' lives" or "I'd be a detective because I enjoy solving logic puzzles").
• When an interviewer asks if you have any questions, never respond with "no." Come up with some insightful questions to ask beforehand.
• Write thank you cards to your interviewers.
 
Here's the what I wish I'd known as a freshman (again, long... sorry):
• Summer is not really relaxation time. For at least part of the summer, do research, get a job, volunteer, study abroad, study for your MCAT, or cultivate a hobby.
• You do not have to be a science major to be pre-med; you just have to take the required courses and be able to do well on the MCAT. Schools like to see a well-rounded applicant, and non-science majors actually have a higher acceptance rate.
• Take advantage of non-science classes as an undergrad.
• Get a planner/calendar and USE it.
• Science doesn't come easily for everyone. Some can cram for two hours and receive an A, and some have to study for two weeks to get the same grade.
• Figure out what works for you.
• Use mnemonics (songs, puns, etc.), root words, and flashcards for memorization.
• Try to understand the "big picture" (both in class and in life in general) and how something relates to your prior knowledge before you worry about the details.
• Freshman year is difficult for nearly every pre-med. See how you fare in your classes before deciding that you just aren't cut out to be a doctor.
• Talk to the other science majors and share resources like volunteer opportunities. You don't have to do it alone, and you shouldn't. Find at least one other science major who understands what you're dealing with.
• Make sure to take time to relax regularly (on the flipside, make sure to take time to study regularly). If you're working on a lab report or studying for 12 hours straight, chances are that you are no longer working efficiently.
• Professors are willing and able to help—use their office hours and study sessions. This also cultivates relationships that lead to strong letters of recommendations.
• Older students are not scary and most love to share what they know with you; however, you have to ask.
• Just being smart is not enough to make it into medical school. About 43% of applicants get accepted each year, and these are the best and brightest. You have to be the best and separate yourself from the crowd (the average MCAT score of an accepted applicant is a 30.8P and the average GPA is a 3.66 overall). You must go to class, and you must have an exceptional GPA. Accept that you will work harder than everyone else at this school to be competitive. Most applicants will have some sort of research experience that leads to a publication; you should be looking for opportunities to do the same. Talk to the science faculty to discover what options are available to you.
• Figure out what classes you need before the MCAT/DAT/OAT/etc. and plan them out early in college. Be aware of when classes are offered and what classes you're putting together. Also, figure out which schools you plan on applying to in order to figure out which classes that school requires and recommends. Spread out your G.E. courses. Try to keep it to two science courses per year (3 max and only if 2 are easier).
• Get to know your professors (ask questions, T.A., show up to class, etc.)—just make sure they know you.
• You can't do everything. Figure out what is essential, but make sure you have time for classes, volunteering (start by sophomore year), hobbies you love, and a little research.
• Shadowing is important (even if it feels useless).
• Learn how to do a literature review early. It comes in handy.
• Take advantage of opportunities to present at conferences, etc.
• Keep your old science notes and lab reports.
• Don't forget chem. and o. chem. material as you go along. It always comes back to bite you later in the class, in o. chem., or on the MCAT.
• It's okay if you're unsure of yourself; you'll gain confidence (especially in the lab) over time.
• Criticism from professors may feel awful, but learn to accept it and learn from it; it helps you get where you need to be.
 
damn that was good girlofgrace7.... very informative!
 
Hello,

I am a rising junior and based upon my experience, I am able to provide my humble advice and opinions for the following classes: General Biology, General Chemistry, and Organic Chemistry. I haven't take physics yet but wish me luck! :luck:

Let's Start With Fall Semester of Freshman Year :scared::

Biology 1-This class is a definite weed out. Bottom line, on the first day of the class, the Prof said something like "250 of you are in this class and 23 will make it to medical school 😱 And I would have had a lot of trouble if I did not have the AP bio background. You learn essential study skills in this class (read the book, take notes, understand the Professor's notes). Focus on what the Prof says, this is usually what is tested not random tangents of endless details in the book.

Biology 2-Same study skills as Bio 1. Things I wish I knew before going into Bio: it's a lot of material and you should focus on things presented in class rather than trying to "memorize" facts from the book. Find a way to see how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

General Chemistry 1-This was by far my lowest grade in all of the premed classes and it was here that I learned the lesson, "Don't study hard but study smart". I would put in countless hours a day and did not feel like my studying justified my grade; in other words I always thought my grade was lower than I felt like it should be because I was making careless errors on exams or could not remember that one formula, etc. Molecular orbital theory gave me serious issues as initially did the topics on heat transfer, Coulomb's Law, etc. And I realized that it's better to study a little everyday understanding core concepts and then drilling A LOT rather than spending massive amounts of times doing problems I wasn't getting and not re-reading and redoing the material. I also should have narrowed my studying based upon exactly was going in class (I seriously think the main lesson here is Study the Topics discussed explicitly in class-do no more and do no less). I actually did better when I spent less time but used it WISELY. I will give you an example. Suppose one day you try to sit down for 3 hours to study for a Chemistry Exam. It's better to spend 3 hours going over all of the material thoroughly and practicing lots of problems that are REPRESENTATIVE of what is going to be on the exam rather than spending 8 hours pondering over the 4 hardest problems in the book that you just can't get. You should take care of those problems by seeing a Professor early in the semester. Do you see what I mean by study smart, not necessarily hard? By hard I mean putting in a lot of hours. Lesson: I wish I used my time more efficiently and rather than getting lost in the branches, I wish I focused on the forest (i.e. what the professor talked about in class, etc.).

General Chemistry 2: I finally got the hang of things and simply adopted the approach I outlined above, spending time efficiently, asking for help daily, drilling lots of problems, outlining, paying more attention in class, and again do the problems again and again. The Professor was very clear about what she expected of us. This is the best case scenario and best kind of Professor 🙂

Sophomore Year:

Organic Chemistry 1: By far my favorite class.I'm weird and found this class easier than General Chemistry 1. My first semester Organic Prof was also one of my favorite professors. That helps. I was terrified of this class but did very well. Simple thing I wish I knew: Understand core concepts and THEN do the problems (don't just jump into problems). DRILL DRILL DRILL problems. Folks have lots of tricks and anything you do differently from the book is a matter of comfort (i.e. getting other self help books, looking up shortcuts to define R vs. S, etc.). But following tricks sometimes leads to confusion for new learners. Stick to what you see in the book and drill problems. See the Professor for help when you need it.

Organic Chemistry 2: This class is mechanism-heavy.I remember for first semester we had an average of maybe 2 new mechanisms on each exam, yeah well when you get to Orgo 2 it's like having water splashed in the face when you get amines, imines, amides, etc. and there are an average of 20 mechanisms on each exam + any previous mechanism used in synthesis problems. Exams were longer too. In other words, a lot of material to digest. I wish from the outset I Foundd some systematic way of organizing, understanding, and applying the material. Whether that was flashcards (never worked for me), flowcharts, or rewriting mechanism after mechanism.

Human Physiology-not a required class but most people take it. You need a systematic way again to organize the material. Mine was based fully off of lectures but I wish I used the book more for reinforcement and went over the material more daily. In other words, if the Professor finishes the urinary system and proceeds, it doesn't mean you forget about this system and proceed. Keep concepts continually fresh by reviewing daily. This keeps everything running smoothly and you won't feel like you are about to have an anxiety attack come exam time.

Just my 2 cents. I hope I didn't ramble too much and that this helps you! Good Luck! :luck:

I will update once I get done with Physics (but maybe by then you'll have it done too). :laugh:
 
.
• Criticism from professors may feel awful, but learn to accept it and learn from it; it helps you get where you need to be.[/B][/QUOTE]
👍 right on. sometimes it makes you feel really bad but when you get to where you need to be, you will thank these people for the rest of your life. I learned this my sophomore year and will remember to take all criticism and advice wisely and apply it whereever I can.
 
Find out why you are interested in medicine (rather than science in general, or research, or social work). Most people do this by volunteering, working, or shadowing and gaining life experience. Consider all of your options and think hard about them.
 
The posts about bull****ting and "acekissing" are sadly very, very, very true. Don't get me wrong: WORK HARD, but when all else fails have no shame when it comes to sucking up. If done properly, it has the power bring your grade from a B up to a solid A. Not like I know this from experience or anything...*ahem.*
 
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