DO's getting ID fellowships

[howtofr4y]

Just wondering if it is difficult for DO's to get Infectious Disease fellowships (are the ID programs friendly to DO's). Does it make a difference if a DO does a DO or an MD residency? Is there such thing as a DO ID fellowship?

Sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology (I know it's not a "DO residency", and that there's some other 4-6 letter acronym that should be used).

Thanks in advance.

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[Jack Daniel]

Just wondering if it is difficult for DO's to get Infectious Disease fellowships (are the ID programs friendly to DO's). Does it make a difference if a DO does a DO or an MD residency? Is there such thing as a DO ID fellowship?

Sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology (I know it's not a "DO residency", and that there's some other 4-6 letter acronym that should be used).

Thanks in advance.

Generally, competitive DOs have no trouble getting any MD spot, except those in competitive programs--because those programs have no end of very qualified MD applicants. That said, I think ID isn't viewed very competitive (except for certain top-ranked programs). As for the 4-6 letter acronym--I'm not sure to what you're referring--TRI, maybe? It's just a PGY-1 year.

 

[howtofr4y]

Generally, competitive DOs have no trouble getting any MD spot, except those in competitive programs--because those programs have no end of very qualified MD applicants. That said, I think ID isn't viewed very competitive (except for certain top-ranked programs). As for the 4-6 letter acronym--I'm not sure to what you're referring--TRI, maybe? It's just a PGY-1 year.

ACGME/LCGME was what I was thinking of...thanks for the info.

 

[howtofr4y]

I can't find a list of AOA Infectious Disease Fellowships, although I did find an ID fellowship program at UMDNJ-SOM. I'm going to guess that there are few AOA ID fellowships.

Also, I did look at some ACGME ID fellowship programs accross the country, and more than a few of them wanted ACGME IM residencies for entrance to the programs. I've also heard that I need to complete an ACGME residency to sit for an (ACGME) IM subspecialty board such as ID.

By the way, I'm trying to decide on the DO/MD route now, and I want to know if it'll be tougher to eventually become an ID doc (not totally sure about ID thing - preferences change, I know) as a DO. I wouldn't mind going DO-->ACGME residency-->ID fellowship, but I'm in Michigan, so the ACGME residency becomes more complicated because of the required AOA internship year.

Last thing - If this becomes necessary, how difficult is it to complete an AOA internship before starting an ACGME residency? I know this may require an extra year, but in the end, I'm not too worried about an extra year.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[bravotwozero]

I can't find a list of AOA Infectious Disease Fellowships, although I did find an ID fellowship program at UMDNJ-SOM. I'm going to guess that there are few AOA ID fellowships.

Also, I did look at some ACGME ID fellowship programs accross the country, and more than a few of them wanted ACGME IM residencies for entrance to the programs. I've also heard that I need to complete an ACGME residency to sit for an (ACGME) IM subspecialty board such as ID.

By the way, I'm trying to decide on the DO/MD route now, and I want to know if it'll be tougher to eventually become an ID doc (not totally sure about ID thing - preferences change, I know) as a DO. I wouldn't mind going DO-->ACGME residency-->ID fellowship, but I'm in Michigan, so the ACGME residency becomes more complicated because of the required AOA internship year.

Last thing - If this becomes necessary, how difficult is it to complete an AOA internship before starting an ACGME residency? I know this may require an extra year, but in the end, I'm not too worried about an extra year.

Any insight is appreciated.

As a general rule, if you're looking to go into a non primary care residency, things are a LOT simpler if you go the MD route. So if you've got the credentials to make it to an MD school, and you don't have any ideological hang ups about practicing 'holistic' medicine, just apply to an MD school, preferrably at your local state school. You'll be sure to get a quality education, AND pay a lot less for it.

 

[ceftazidime]

As a general rule, if you're looking to go into a non primary care residency, things are a LOT simpler if you go the MD route.

FYI, an IM residency is a primary care residency, so your comments aren't really relevant.

 

[bravotwozero]

FYI, an IM residency is a primary care residency, so your comments aren't really relevant.

I was under the impression that we were discussing IM subspecialties, not IM residencies, which makes a world of difference. I'm pretty sure IM subspecialties are not considered primary care, as opposed to being a general internist, in which case my statements would be irrelevant. Many of these subspecialites, such as ID, or Endo, have few to no spots offered by DO programs, which puts a DO IM resident at a relative disadvantage.

 

[olliemctuffy]

By the time you get to applying to fellowships, it is fairly irrelevent to most programs whether you have md or do after your name. You will have a lengthy clinical track record they can look at. More important will be where you do your residency. Residency directors know fellowship directors and many fellowships are at the same sites as residencies, thus the location and reputation of your residency and its faculty will be paramount, of course how well you perform in residency will also be key.

As an example, I was at a medical school in the northeast which is notoriously hostile to DO's applying to its residency programs, but yet accepts several DO's into the fellowship programs each year.

The letters after your name only really seem to matter to med students. I was with an attending today and she asked a new mom where she will be seeing an md for follow up care and the patient looked confused and said, well....my pedicatrician is in so and so clinic. Patients don't care about it, to them a doc is a doc.

 

[bravotwozero]

More important will be where you do your residency. Residency directors know fellowship directors and many fellowships are at the same sites as residencies, thus the location and reputation of your residency and its faculty will be paramount, of course how well you perform in residency will also be key.

This is kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to enter a certain fellowship program, then ideally you'd want to complete a residency program at the same place where the fellowship is offered, no? How else would the fellowship director know the residency director, especially if you're a DO who's applying to an allo fellowship? And if there aren't a lot of DO fellowship programs in your area of interest, then you may be forced to apply to a fellowship where the program director has never heard of your program, which would make things difficult.

 

[dkwyler94]

Having recently gone through the medicine subspeciality match, I have a little bit of an idea of what they are looking at. The fellowship for ID at my residency frequently has DO fellows. I received many interview offers at less respected places in Critical Care/Pulm and matched well.

You could go to a DO residency and get and ID fellowship in an MD program, just as you could go to a community based program for residency and still match, but your goal should really be to go to an MD university based Internal Med program.

One can argue all they want about which is better, but those are mute points. They are perceived as better and for fellowship your chances are much greater. For ID, which is a pretty easy match, unless you have some big skeletons in your closet, you would practically be guaranteed a spot in a good program.

Good luck.

 

[osli]

As a general rule, if you're looking to go into a non primary care residency, things are a LOT simpler if you go the MD route. So if you've got the credentials to make it to an MD school, and you don't have any ideological hang ups about practicing 'holistic' medicine, just apply to an MD school, preferrably at your local state school. You'll be sure to get a quality education, AND pay a lot less for it.

You know, I usually don't have much of a problem with these types of posts because I tend to believe that most posters give advice with the best of intent, but there is too much misinformation there to not throw in my worthless 2c...

First, it isn't difficult to get an allopathic IM residency as a DO graduate. Not if you are a good student, at least. I'd never argue that a DO matching into plastics is going to be anything but a pure nightmare, but we aren't talking about plastics... or derm... or even ortho. This is IM, and while it has its degree of competitiveness as the gateway to so many subspecialties, there are an awful lot of good spots at good programs, and a lot of those go to deserving DO grads every year.

Second, even in cases where the road is a bit tougher for the DO graduate, it isn't a LOT tougher as stated. At least not for IM, as explained above. It is a minor hassle, or may be a complication at a few programs, and that's about it.

Third, you state that going to a state MD school will ensure a good education, with an implicit counterpoint being that going to a DO school will not. I feel like the lower tiers of both can offer equally bad educations. I know of several state schools (and a few private MD schools as well) that do not have a particularly good reputation for providing quality education. Coming from one of those schools is not going to make the road any easier than coming from a DO school. And there are also some DO schools that I feel are below par, no doubt about that. But a good education isn't guaranteed by which letters are behind your name - it isn't even guaranteed by going to a prestigious institution. In the end what counts is whether you actually got a good education, and that's as much up to the individual as the school.

I know you meant well... and if the OP was asking about derm or ortho I think your advice would have been better placed. But c'mon... this is IM with and ID fellowship. Not even cards. And a far cry from neurosurgery.

 

[jzeidenb]

I dont want to make a whole new thread for my question because its so close to the OP's and every fellowship doesnt need its own thread but:

Are there Osteopathic fellowship in Interventional Radiology?

 

[raidermedic]

Attendings have told me that applying for fellowships is all about your base residency program. ie If your a DO at Hopkins then you are going to be a competitive applicant. More so than a MD from Middle of Nowhere Hospital. If theres a DO and MD applicant from the same program then they are equal in that respect.
Something else to consider is that aside from Cardiology and GI, IM fellowships are not that competitive.