DO's in NC (@ DUKE)?

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Hello all,

The GF started going to Duke for her masters this year, and we both talked about staying down south and settling down.

I have looked at the residency reviews in the stickie's above, and those have helped a lot, but i have been hearing that at Duke, they are way too willing to take the $250 for the rotation application, but aren't too willing to take DO's for their EM residency (I have walked around the campus, and definetely noticed an 'air' around the campus). I have also noted that in the past three years, there has only been 1/22 residents that was a DO. 🙁

Any thoughts on this topic, as well as any advice on how to obtain a rotation in NC (the AHEC's have been giving me the run around) would be greatly appreciated. :idea:

ps- I am NOT trying to start a flame war, just trying to figure out whether $250 is a good investment in this venture or if it just a donation to Duke's coffer's
 
Hi there, so what i have heard is that duke is very DO unfriendly and in general so are the rest of the NC EM programs. (apparanly other specialitesi are much more DO friendly, not sure why EM is the exception).
I applied to all of them and didnt get one interview there (yes im a DO). There seems to be a lot of DO's at East Caroline Univ which is a little bit in the boonies but i hear is a really good program. One of my fellow interns went to med school there and loved it.
So if you want to be close to your gf and you want the best chance i would try to rotate at ECU, instead of Duke. Not to say you dont have any chance at all and not to rotate at Duke but i just wouldnt lay all of my cards on the line for that place. In general, matching is a pain in the butt process and you never know...u may be that person that gets a spot, so dont give up, go for it if you want,,, and at least if your gonna take the chance be realistic about it. if you dont try then you will never know. and if you can rotate at a couples places in NC that would be optimal.
Good luck
 
I applied to all the NC EM programs way back in 2002-2003, and no dice from either. I may not be the BEST EM applicant, but I was a very good one with very good COMLEX scores (but no USMLE). I got the stiff hand, in fact, I think Duke was one of the first to reject me (which usually means no DOs). That being said, I know a DO who is there now, should have just graduated (but he was a definite stellar applicant).

Good luck.
Q
 
I can't comment on dook's preference/animosity towards DO's, but I can say just down the road at the southern part of heaven there is a DO in the second year class. Go heels!
 
I got an interview there last year. I cancelled it so I can't comment on anything first hand. I do know that several DO's I know also got interviews there and my impression from last season was that it was not an issue.
 
shortbread9 said:
Hi there, so what i have heard is that duke is very DO unfriendly and in general so are the rest of the NC EM programs. (apparanly other specialitesi are much more DO friendly, not sure why EM is the exception).
I applied to all of them and didnt get one interview there (yes im a DO). There seems to be a lot of DO's at East Caroline Univ which is a little bit in the boonies but i hear is a really good program. One of my fellow interns went to med school there and loved it.
So if you want to be close to your gf and you want the best chance i would try to rotate at ECU, instead of Duke. Not to say you dont have any chance at all and not to rotate at Duke but i just wouldnt lay all of my cards on the line for that place. In general, matching is a pain in the butt process and you never know...u may be that person that gets a spot, so dont give up, go for it if you want,,, and at least if your gonna take the chance be realistic about it. if you dont try then you will never know. and if you can rotate at a couples places in NC that would be optimal.
Good luck
Click to expand...

PM me! Who is your intern-mate...they're one of my classmates! Sorry, I don't know where you are for residency.
 
If you want to stay south and like NC then rotate at all of them (ECU, Duke, UNC, Wake) that you can. They are all great programs I think and if you have the credentials then you have a shot. ECU is, as someone else said, a really good program and G.Ville is not bad at all. You are within 2 hrs of the triangle so that is a plus. The key is in the rotation because if you do one there and do an outstanding job (honors), that will go a long way in your favor and yes there have been DOs at Duke also so there is a history there. If you don't try you will never know.
 
drakken said:
If you want to stay south and like NC then rotate at all of them (ECU, Duke, UNC, Wake) that you can. They are all great programs I think and if you have the credentials then you have a shot. ECU is, as someone else said, a really good program and G.Ville is not bad at all. You are within 2 hrs of the triangle so that is a plus. The key is in the rotation because if you do one there and do an outstanding job (honors), that will go a long way in your favor and yes there have been DOs at Duke also so there is a history there. If you don't try you will never know.
Click to expand...

There was talk a few months ago regarding Duke getting a new PD. I think the new one is the old PD from New Jersey. Maybe checking to see how DO-friendly New Jersey is (was) can be an indicator you can use since the new person will be making ranking decisions at Dook. I doubt *any* Ivory Tower institution can afford to be "DO-unfriendly" so it's not likely to be an institution-wide policy against them, but more probably reflecting the PD/ranking faculty predjudice, er, preferences. From what I heard, the last PD didn't like anybody, DO or otherwise.
 
This thread is interesting. I spoke directly with the Ass. Program Director at the last SAEM in May. He walked up to a group of us and asked if we were med-students. I specifically told him that we were all DO's, and mentioned that we had heard on the grapevine that Duke was not too friendly to us. He told me that they had no problem with DO's in the least bit. So take that for what it's worth.

Another thing, I am pretty sure the PD from Cooper (in South NJ) is the new PD at Duke this year. The old Duke PD is starting the new UCSF program this year. Cooper took a guy from in house, that is supposed to be pretty good, for thier new PD.
 
Thousandth said:
This thread is interesting. I spoke directly with the Ass. Program Director at the last SAEM in May. He walked up to a group of us and asked if we were med-students. I specifically told him that we were all DO's, and mentioned that we had heard on the grapevine that Duke was not too friendly to us. He told me that they had no problem with DO's in the least bit. So take that for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

I think that dook as an institution has an aversion to DO's given their very ivory tower medicine and surgery departments, but I never got that vibe from their EM folks. I would believe what he told you.
 
Going through the application process last year, I definitely got the sense that Duke is trying to recruit the best applicants, regardless of MD or DO. Duke also has FMG before. I don't think the statistics of 1/22 in 3 years is that significant. After all, it is a young program. Look at any other programs that is only 4-6 years old, how many DO have they had? How many DOs applied compare to number of MDs applied to a particular program? All those can twist the stats.

If you are concerned because you're DO, the best thing is to just ask. I don't think anyone will be offended and it's better that things are out in the clear. I am a FMG and it irritated the hell out of me when programs automatically rejected my applications because they don't sponsor visa. I wished they would just post that on their website or somehow ERAS can point that out. I definitely wasted some money that way and understand your frustration. I wish I knew it was okay to just ask before I applied. A few of the PDs I contacted later all said along the lines of "yes, if you e-mailed me, I would have just told you don't apply"
 
Not sure if one PD can change an institution's opinion, but the Cooper program is relatively DO friendly (or least when she was there, not sure now). It's part of UMDNJ and geographically close to UMDNJ's DO school in Stratford. At least one Cooper resident is a DO. Not sure if any of that matters in the long run for Duke's unwritten policy.

In my opinion -- If you wanna go somewhere just apply. I feel like threads like these keep people from applying to "non-friendly" programs and therefore never find out if they could have gotten in, or don't show these programs that there is enough DO interest in their programs to change their way of thinking. If you really wanna go there, do an elective and put a face and a great performance/work ethic behind the name on your application... or the D.O.

Good luck.
 
As a former Duke Med student and now a house officer at the hospital, I can assure you that the EM program is much more "DO-friendly" than you've heard. First off, the program is very young, and hardly has that "ivory tower" air about it that other Duke programs are sometimes said to have. The ED used to be staffed by IM and surgery people; it's only in the last 5-10 years that Duke has had dedicated, board-certified EM people to fully staff the ED, and a residency program. Secondly, the 1 in 22 statistic is rather inaccurate. I personally met at least 3 different DO's in the program in the last 3 years, so I can assure you that there have been many more than just 1 DO in the program recently. Thirdly, the program didn't even fill a few years ago, so it's not like they can be really picky and totally exclude people just because they happened not to go to an allopathic medical school.

Regarding the new program director, I've been very impressed in my interactions with her. And it's quite a contrast to the former PD, as she was VERY universally disliked and indeed despised by many students, residents, and faculty. The assistant PD Dr. Broder is phenomenal as well; definitely one of the smartest and most likeable attendings I've met at Duke, in any department!

So go ahead and apply. Duke is a great place to learn! Just don't admit people unnecessarily to my service 🙂 hehehe
 
I plan to apply to Duke but am more concerned about the PD change and immaturity of the program than anti-DO attitude. Hopefully I will get the opportunity to talk with residents and attendings about these concerns with an interview🙂.

I had a rotation set up at Carolinas but am canceling it. They definitely seem anti-DO. They have had zero DOs in the last three years and I sure got bad vibes from the UNC coordinators.

Anyone think it is even worth applying to Carolinas as a DO?
 
ERresponsible said:
I plan to apply to Duke but am more concerned about the PD change and immaturity of the program than anti-DO attitude. Hopefully I will get the opportunity to talk with residents and attendings about these concerns with an interview🙂.

I had a rotation set up at Carolinas but am canceling it. They definitely seem anti-DO. They have had zero DOs in the last three years and I sure got bad vibes from the UNC coordinators.

Anyone think it is even worth applying to Carolinas as a DO?
Click to expand...

I have no clue about the DO environment at Carolinas, but are you talking about Carolinas AND UNC? Your post sounds like you think UNC and carolinas are the same...they are not. Carolinas is in charlotte. UNC is in Chapel Hill. Two completely different programs.
 
Hey there:

Haven't been on the boards much lately so sorry for chiming in on this thread late. As a newly graduated DO Duke EM resident, I did not experience ANY negative feelings towards DO's from the faculty, staff, or fellow off service residents. I got the usual "what's a DO" question but not any negativity. As far as the number of DO residents, there were a total of 3 DO's in the first 3 classes. Also, there is an excellent attending there who is a DO as well. I cannot speak for the new PD's feeling about DO's but I do not think that Duke as a whole is terribly DO unfriendly. At least that is my experience.

BC
 
As an FMG grad of Duke, I can tell you that it came down from on high that FMGs and DOs were NOT welcome at Duke 2 years after I got there. Regardless of what faculty says (and Josh Broder is a great guy, and a total straight-shooter - will never lie to you), forces beyond the ED are at play, and I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Toohotinvegas33 said:
Duke cant be too unfriendly, they have some kind of joint family residency with NSU

NSUCOM/Duke/Southern Regional Area Health Ed Ctr - Family Practice Residency

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...program_id=167087&hosp_id=147567&returnPage=1
Click to expand...

It's interesting you mention that, as that program you mention is the ONLY residency program Duke has that is not based at "the mother ship". Duke essentially does not (except for this one) do "affiliated" programs that don't rotate at DUH.
 
streetdoc said:
I have no clue about the DO environment at Carolinas, but are you talking about Carolinas AND UNC? Your post sounds like you think UNC and carolinas are the same...they are not. Carolinas is in charlotte. UNC is in Chapel Hill. Two completely different programs.
Click to expand...

The EM folk at Carolinas were great to deal with. However, you have to get externships approved through UNC. That is where the hassles begin...

I don't what the formal relationship is between UNC and Carolinas but I was told both applications had to be approved.
 
ERresponsible said:
The EM folk at Carolinas were great to deal with. However, you have to get externships approved through UNC. That is where the hassles begin...

I don't what the formal relationship is between UNC and Carolinas but I was told both applications had to be approved.
Click to expand...

You know, I started out writing back to you to clarify, as one of the above posters did, that UNC and Carolinas were two entirely separate residency programs. But as I was on the SAEM website to get the links to each residency program, I noticed that both of them list UNC as their affiliated medical school. Interesting. I didn't know you could have two residency programs for one medical school...

Check it out, all:

UNC: http://www.saem.org/SAEMDNN/Default.aspx?tabid=516

= Chapel Hill = Judith Tintinalli as chair = Doug Trocinski as program director.

Carolinas = http://www.saem.org/SAEMDNN/Default.aspx?tabid=517

= Charlotte = John Marx as chair = E. Parker Hays as program director
 
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