drama in vet school - is it everywhere?

[gracietiger]

I just posted this whole thread about being a little frustrated by some drama I had overheard in a public setting from a group of vet students, but decided to just ask this instead:

Is the drama really rampant in vet school? Is it avoidable? For the people who stay out of it, are they loners in their class? Are there schools more "known" for the drama than others?

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[nyanko]

I am very surprised that you have encountered any environment whatsoever that does not have that sort of drama. Every place I've worked or gone to school or anything has had that kind of stuff in the background at least to some extent. I'm sure having to be in the same environment for 4 years with the same 100 or so people is super conducive to it, too. I mean basically though, there are ways to ignore it and not get sucked in to it; at least I've always been able to.

I guess the bottom line is that people are going to complain about things and not like each other sometimes, and you pretty much just have to learn to deal with it if that's not your style (it's not mine either, so I understand where you're coming from).

I also don't think that what people do and say in a public restaurant (within the limits of the law, of course) should really be held against them like that. They're under a lot of stress and blowing off steam...

 

[1Vista1Grey]

I totally understand your disappointment. I am hoping my school wont be too bad, but I am preparing for the worst (been in a lot of groups and seen a lot of drama), so hopefully I wont get sucked in. I think a lot of drama has to do with intolerance of people who do things differently and people being afraid to stand up for people or tell people when they are out of line up front... but easier said than done. I havent heard of any schools being worse than others. I would assume that the smaller the class the more drama though. Seeing the same few people everyday means they have nothing better to talkabout than each other, which means everyone knows everything about everyone. Then put those same few people in a stressful situation (like vet school) and people start being overly critical of each other rather than tolerating peoples differences.

 

[gracietiger]

Hi nyanko-
I've actually worked in a number of environments that had very little drama, but that was before I got into animal work🙂 I noticed that the veterinary and animal field kind of took on a whole new level of drama. I am not surprised, as pursuing something like animal or veterinary work requires a lot more of an emotional drive, and I think a lot of gossip and such comes from an emotional place, not a logical one. I had been pre-law before, and worked in law firms where there was no drama. While I miss that kind of work environment, I was also utterly bored and unstimulated.

I actually have the biggest issue with the fact that these people were speaking badly about their vet school and students in a public setting. And I mean, very public. Like tons of people squished in together. I, along with many other strangers, were pretty much sitting at the table with them. Some of the things I heard also involved showing up hungover/still drunk to clinical rounds and wanting to go out to drink over doing their rotations. I was raised by two very successful business people, so I have been raised to be hypersensitive to how my image represents myself and anything else I am involved in, but I tend to think that once people enter a small professional school or are representing something other than themselves, they should behave in a certain way in public. Behind closed doors, sure, everything is fair game. But being in a small town, where most people take their animals to this vet hospital, I would be VERY concerned at the thought of the people learning to be vets, with little experience, taking care of my babies if they were still drunk/hungover. I also find it really disconcerting that I should hear several names of other students in a public place and all of their faults as soon-to-be vets. If they should decide to practice in my town, their names are now tarnished because of some gossip a group of people couldn't help but relay in a very public setting.

sorry, I am ranting again!!!!! I guess, in all honesty, I am just a little surprised. And scared, honestly, because I don't fit in with that at all. I was quite shocked as well when I learned that these particular students are near 30.
I don't know, I guess I had heard there was a lot of drama in vet school, but I thought it'd be more like who hooked up with who, who got drunk and threw up Friday night, etc etc. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a few stories like these once in awhile too. But talking about being drunk on a job that requires medications and life/death situations, and name-dropping in a malicious context is a little beyond my boundaries. I do agree that what people do on their free time is totally their business, and none of mine. And I know that I am probably sounding totally uptight and anal right now, which I'm actually not at all, but I am kind of sensitive to this kind of behavior. Again, totally how I was raised. I'm just a little worried about spending four years in that kind of environment. So that's why I'm wondering if this kind of behavior is common or only represents a small portion of students? And also if there are schools with less tolerance for drama/showing up drunk/hungover to work/etc etc?

 

[DVMhopeful]

From what I hear this is fairly common in a lot of vet schools. As the above post mentions, being with the same bunch of people (in my school's case, 55-60) for four years is drama incubator, add on top of that the fact that everyone is under a lot of pressure and you're gonna have a few situations. I don't think not participating in it will make you an outcast, just have the guts to speak up and let others know you aren't comfortable participating in drama, and you aren't interesting in listening to it. 👍

 

[nyanko]

Hi nyanko-
I've actually worked in a number of environments that had very little drama, but that was before I got into animal work🙂

I've worked in plenty of non-animal related jobs with the same amounts of workplace drama. Sometimes it takes some time working there before you really become privy to it, but I assure you that there are very few jobs where people have to work so closely together that don't have background nastiness.

I actually have the biggest issue with the fact that these people were speaking badly about their vet school and students in a public setting. And I mean, very public. Like tons of people squished in together. I, along with many other strangers, were pretty much sitting at the table with them.

But you were listening because you wanted to listen to what they were saying. I guess your parents raised you to eavesdrop on people's conversations, too?

I tend to think that once people enter a small professional school or are representing something other than themselves, they should behave in a certain way in public. Behind closed doors, sure, everything is fair game. But being in a small town, where most people take their animals to this vet hospital, I would be VERY concerned at the thought of the people learning to be vets, with little experience, taking care of my babies if they were still drunk/hungover. I also find it really disconcerting that I should hear several names of other students in a public place and all of their faults as soon-to-be vets. If they should decide to practice in my town, their names are now tarnished because of some gossip a group of people couldn't help but relay in a very public setting.

Or you could, you know, meet them and decide it for yourself instead of listening to what a bunch of vet students blowing off steam are saying about their colleagues? It sounds to me like you are taking this WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously. It isn't like they got up on a mic and said all of this, or wrote it in the Sacramento Bee.

sorry, I am ranting again!!!!! I guess, in all honesty, I am just a little surprised. And scared, honestly, because I don't fit in with that at all. I was quite shocked as well when I learned that these particular students are near 30.

You judging them is just as ridiculous as you feel like they're being, to me.

And I know that I am probably sounding totally uptight and anal right now,

AND HOW!

And also if there are schools with less tolerance for drama/showing up drunk/hungover to work/etc etc?

Do you actually think that the rules for conduct on rotations at UC Davis say that it's okay to show up drunk?? If people are drunk and screwing things up, they'll get tagged for it. If they had a shot of whiskey and can still do their job well enough that it makes no difference, more power to them imo! And going in hung over is no worse than going in with a bit of a stomach bug/headache/whatever. It's not my choice either, but if someone can conduct themselves in a normal fashion like that then again, have fun!

 

[gracietiger]

I did not intend to personally offend you as much as I clearly did so I don't really want to respond other than to say I do have a HUGE problem with this:

"If they had a shot of whiskey and can still do their job well enough that it makes no difference, more power to them imo!"

More power to them? Honestly??? I would love for you to say the same thing about the bus driver taking your children to school...

 

[1CellNtheSea]

At my school, the drama situates around one group that causes a lot of it within their group. Everyone else doesn't seem to care or pay attention, even though they make themselves obvious. There are plenty in our class of 80+ that don't get involved in any of that at all and are just fine. Just depends on the group of people I guess. You have drama-queens/kings everywhere!

 

[nyanko]

No children, never will. 😉

But the bus driver or vet student could have had a shot and could not be over the legal BAC limit, and their judgment not impaired at all. Why would I judge them for that? The problem is when it is actually affecting their judgment/reflexes/coordination, etc, in which case I don't think anyone should be on the road or at work.

 

[sumstorm]

I have worked in places with minimal drama and places with maximum drama. I attended 2 highschools with classes of less than 100 students; one high school had less than 160 students total. Small size doesn't necessitate drama...I think the tolerance levels of the individuals involved in terms of what they feel the need to comment on and what they are willing to listen to makes a huge difference. A lot of drama is stopped by simply responding 'so what?' when someone is creating drama. I think termperments and tolerances have a lot to do with it in the work place, and probably academicly.

Do you actually think that the rules for conduct on rotations at UC Davis say that it's okay to show up drunk?? If people are drunk and screwing things up, they'll get tagged for it. If they had a shot of whiskey and can still do their job well enough that it makes no difference, more power to them imo! And going in hung over is no worse than going in with a bit of a stomach bug/headache/whatever. It's not my choice either, but if someone can conduct themselves in a normal fashion like that then again, have fun!

Here I disagree. Performing one's job also involves appearing and acting as a professional. I hope that as students on rotation, our instructors aren't waiting for us to screw up...to prove that we can't handle alcohol in our systems or a hangover of drinking. Screwing up can have serious consequences in practive. Then again, I also have a husband who works in a business background where he can be drug and alcohol tested at any time. We have friends who don't have such concerns, but as part of his professional responsibility, it does influence how we behave 'off' hours.

 

[gracietiger]

But the point is that everyone is affected by alcohol differently. So if you have a large group of vet students going out to party, and maybe two of them can handle their whiskey really well, perhaps the rest are showing up still drunk/hungover? And I have to disagree that this is the same as a headache/stomach ache/etc. Alcohol affect the CNS in a way that a headache/stomach ache could never do, and for some people, in a way that really inhibits their ability to perform their functions well. And I also think that when a person is in that condition, it only takes once to mess up. So they might not necessarily be caught beforehand. There are plenty of drunk drivers who end up causing a fatal accident, some of whom drank and drive plenty of times before with no problem and some of whom did it for the first time.
I used to be a big partier and now that I'm a bit older, look back on some of the stupid stuff that I thought I could handle at the time.
At the end of the day, I feel like professionals, including students studying to be professionals, have a duty to perform the best that they can, given that people pay a ton of money for them to perform their duties. I have seen people in vet clinics refinance their homes just for their animals. So, I do stand by the fact that I find it utterly inappropriate to be CHOOSING to go into a workplace still drunk or CHOOSING to represent your institution in an ill manner in public. A stomach ache or headache is not a choice.


I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not being hungover/still drunk is acceptable/not acceptable at work, but I am sharing my personal perspective. I am not here to judge anyone and whether or not they like gossip, partying, etc but to say that it is not for ME and I would like some advise about how best to stay out of it or if there are schools that foster a more community based environment over a competitive one. Perhaps I wrote some things that seemed offensive or attacking because I was honestly just really frustrated as this was not the kind of behavior I expected to see from professional school students. However, maybe your attack on me is good for me so I can see what I should be prepared for...

 

[sumstorm]

No children, never will. 😉

But the bus driver or vet student could have had a shot and could not be over the legal BAC limit, and their judgment not impaired at all. Why would I judge them for that? The problem is when it is actually affecting their judgment/reflexes/coordination, etc, in which case I don't think anyone should be on the road or at work.

By that logic, someone could be well over the legal BAC limit and be operational. Why would you, or the law, judge them for that?

 

[gracietiger]

Whoa, that a had a lot of typos... Haha, just went for a really long hike today so I'm a little off...

 

[EqSci]

Here's my opinion. I completely agree with you that these students were being inappropriate, and that more should be expected from professional students. That said, why does this affect you? You can't control other people - only yourself and your behavior. Find people whose behavior, values, etc. match yours to hang out with at vet school if it bothers you that much.

Honestly, people like that are the reason I'm a naturally shy person. I figure if I don't open my mouth then nobody will have a reason to talk about me. But I've learned over the years that if people want to talk, they will talk - whether you give them a reason to or not. The only thing you can do is stay true to yourself, stay away from those people if it makes you more comfortable, and focus on your own education.

I understand nyanko's point of view. IMO this has nothing to do with vet school and everything to do with people in general. From all walks of life. But it also is upsetting to me, just as it was in high school, college, work, etc. It can be very intimidating, especially if you are about to 'join' whatever group you are hearing it from. Try to realize that you are just an outsider, their conversation was taken out of context and may not have been as malicious as it sounded. I've said horrible things about people I truly care about and respect out of frustration, as I'm sure we all have at some point or another.

Take a deep breath!! You'll find your friends in vet school. Do what you think is right and the rest will come naturally.

 

[nyanko]

And I have to disagree that this is the same as a headache/stomach ache/etc. Alcohol affect the CNS in a way that a headache/stomach ache could never do,

Whoa whoa, I said a HANGOVER, not still being drunk. A hangover is only due to the dehydration that your body experiences when you drink too much alcohol without drinking enough water too. At that point, it's no worse than a headache/stomachache/being tired, which is still not really a good thing but those things happen sometimes, too.

A stomach ache or headache is not a choice.

You ate too much, or slept too little because you were up late studying...

I am not here to judge anyone and whether or not they like gossip, partying, etc but to say that it is not for ME and I would like some advise about how best to stay out of it or if there are schools that foster a more community based environment over a competitive one. Perhaps I wrote some things that seemed offensive or attacking because I was honestly just really frustrated as this was not the kind of behavior I expected to see from professional school students. However, maybe your attack on me is good for me so I can see what I should be prepared for...

You are judging people, whether you are here to or not. People told you how to stay out of it: DON'T GET INVOLVED IN IT! But I'll tell you one thing...outwardly acting condescending or like you're better than them for it is most certainly "getting involved in it" too.

By that logic, someone could be well over the legal BAC limit and be operational. Why would you, or the law, judge them for that?

I wouldn't, but the law would. What I think doesn't matter worth a damn, but what the law thinks sure does.

 

[gracietiger]

Hi Eqsci-
Well honestly, the fact that it does get to me and frustrates me is a weakness in myself. I have a more difficult time letting stuff roll off my back when I think it is wrong. Perhaps the crap-talking about all the other people I'd get over - I think I'm just disappointed that it happens amongst older professionals - but the drinking thing, yea, that bothers me. I have four cats, they are my babies, and I'll be damned if someone who is even the slightest bit under the influence gives them medication or operates on them... especially if they are still learning.
I am not shy, I'm actually quite outspoken, and it can get me into trouble (shocked, right?). I am generally a very laid-back person, but some things I don't tolerate well. So I recognize that in myself, and try to avoid those situations. I have had hardly any drama in my life for a long time (perhaps because I lived in a village in Africa for the last year, hahaha), so I think I am just a little surprised by it as what I heard was not what I expected from vet students. That's all.
Honestly, I expected vet school to be a lot of hugs and Kumbaya around a fire. Okay, not really, but I did think people would at least feel generally positively about their school, and if they had issues with other people, would at least keep them to themselves. I also expected that students in vet school would prioritize vet school, and not show up to rotations in a state that *might* endanger their performances.
I have been a bit isolated from the "real" world for a little while, so perhaps I just needed this eye-opener.

 

[gracietiger]

nyanko, you are right, I am judging. I do not think I am better than them, that's for sure, as they are the ones studying for their vet school classes right now and I'm studying for chemistry just hoping I'll someday be in their shoes. So better than them? No, definitely not.
But I am being judgemental - my personal perspective would have expected professionals to conduct themselves differently, I had an unfavorable reaction to what I witnessed, and nonetheless, I judged the behavior. In the same way that I would expect those students to have kept to themselves their issues with other students and the institution, I could have kept to myself the specific story as to why I was frustrated and seeking advise. I really, at the end of the day, just want to know what to expect for vet school. Like everybody else here who is yet to be accepted, I just want to find the best fit for me, and so I wanted to seek opinions on whether some schools are reputed to have "less" drama than others.

 

[EqSci]

I have heard that from several people now. That they expected vet school to be like a big family and everyone to be similar and happy and get along. Obviously, that's just having stars in your eyes. Vet school is just like the rest of the world, with all different types of personalities and values and morals.

I agree that it's disappointing that professional students act that way, but we're all just human. And it's easy enough for me to sit here and say 'don't let it bother you' but I'm pretty sensitive to those things as well.

Anyway, you're right, the whole point of this is that it's good you realized your mistaken idea about vet school before you got there. The good news is I think it's not as bad as you're imagining it right now. Think of a happy medium. 🙂

ETA: As for schools with less drama... I would imagine it changes drastically from year to year for each school. It all depends on the people that happen to make up your specific class. I doubt the actual school has anything to do with it.

 

[lenmaca]

Honestly, people like that are the reason I'm a naturally shy person. I figure if I don't open my mouth then nobody will have a reason to talk about me. But I've learned over the years that if people want to talk, they will talk - whether you give them a reason to or not. The only thing you can do is stay true to yourself, stay away from those people if it makes you more comfortable, and focus on your own education.

This is very nicely stated. 👍

 

[Nexx]

All vet schools are going to have drama and all vet schools are going to have a 'culture of alcohol.'

Complaining, trashtalking, etc believe it or not is a form of bonding with your fellow students and extends to any social group (co-workers, family, etc). I can 99.9% guarantee that you tell stories about "I can't believe such and such did this at work today" to your significant other or a close friend you have at work or school -- if it's not a way to bond, it is certainly a way to vent your stresses.

I wish I could say I hadn't spouted off about some of my fellow classmates. But well, as I said.. it happens. Frankly the worst of it probably happened when I lived with 3 classmates and one of them turned out to pretty much be a rampant alcoholic (functional) and pretty much be the kind of person that I never want to be bothered associating with... ever. But you know what, talking about other classmates certainly hasn't ended there. I've discussed issues with some of my close friends about other friends of ours, not really malicious but a 'what on earth were they thinking' type of thing.


As for the 'culture of alcohol' - I am not referring to or insinuating that it is okay to drink on the job or drink your life away, but vet school (and quite a few other professional schools) are known for partying. Univ of Fl if I remember had monthly parties (or at least several per semester), At Murdoch there are any number of social events each semester--hell some of them sponsored by Hills/students where our teachers end up half-drunk doing a comedic 'debate' show for the students to allow us all to have a bit of a laugh.

I guess, yeah just be aware that students in vet school don't automatically join the 'ivory tower' in terms of behaviour--they aren't all of the sudden going to be perfect beacons of society. Also, there is going to be a bit of alcohol involved in the off-hours of school, so some people take it to the extreme -- for better or worse. I think a lot of these behaviours involving the gossip and alcohol simply revolve around a way to reduce a lot of stress and it is hard to understand how that evolves until you are in the thick of it. Actually I know stress plays a big role as last year I managed to get "attacked" by quite a few people over a comment I made on one of our class message boards that was literally taken the wrong way, and let's just say that it took roughly 12 hours to have this heated discussion well-known throughout the student body, years 1-5 ;x

Anyhow don't judge these people too harshly as you don't know full circumstances and full-truths behind the stories as things will tend to get exaggerated and blown out of proportion (look at this thread for instance 😛 ). Hopefully you will come to understand the culture when you are firmly entrenched in it, or you can find a way to attempt to alter the culture to your liking at your school.

 

[gracietiger]

VERY well said. Thank you. Totally agree.
Let me just say before I seem like a total tight wad, I am all about parties and alcohol use if that's what people choose. I'm totally supportive of people who don't engage in it either, but my social life was definitely a big priority to me, and while it is less so now than when I was 21, I'm still fond of a "crazy" night out with my girls. In fact, my boyfriend and I brew our own beer, so I am NOT judging anybody who likes to go out and have a good time if that includes alcohol use.
And you are right, I have, and still do, engage in gossip and plenty of "oh my god, can you believe this..."es. I know that gossip is a form of bonding, and I know that it is MUCH easier to find pleasure in gossip when one is really stressed, and perhaps bored from schoolwork (which I know I am right now - chemistry isn't my life passion).
However, the "gossip" I overheard, I believe, overdid it. I wasn't hearing about who is hooking up. I was hearing about other people's business that could seriously hamper their reputation. I just wonder how the vets we work for would feel if we went around our community talking about the shady things they do in their practices? There's just a boundary that shouldn't be crossed, IMO.
But I think that maybe, hopefully, this can go to rest. I obviously vented about a specific situation, which wasn't appropriate on a public forum. My friend who overheard the conversation was just as shocked as I was (she's in medical school and said she does NOT see that kind of behavior) so I should have just bi$ched to her. But, because this was so different than what I expected, I was just a little surprised and was kind of in a state of anxiety at the thought of this possibly representing four years of my life. Now, I realize that this small group of people does not represent an entire class of people, so I can let it go. I am a philosophy major - I especially studied ethics - so perhaps I need to take this issue up on an ethics forum. Hahaha.

 

[Nexx]

It's all good gracie, certainly we only have what you are saying to go on and to judge for ourselves.

I think this was actually a good issue to bring up and you certainly have good points about some tact in discussing certain things and behaviour in public. So yeah if the discussion continues try not to take too much of it to heart 🙂

 

[DVMhopeful]

Here's an idea...why don't you be the person who is well known for their lack of drama, others like you will be drawn to you. You will develop a group of people who share your values, that way you not only will you not be subject to gossip, slams, etc., others will know that you aren't going to listen to that 'crap'. Instead of worrying about finding a vet school with 'less drama', why don't you think of a way to create one?🙄

 

[flyhi]

Gracietiger -

I feel as though i would have had the same reaction as you. I am all about working hard and playing hard, but when you start to mix the two, it is not kosher with me.

I was a corporate pilot and i do not know one of my passengers who would have appreciated me taking a shot of whiskey prior to flying even if i were under the legal limit and 'functional'. I also do not feel that any of my clients in the veterinary field will appreciate me doing surgery on their loved ones in the same manner. I find that argument *****ic.

I have always worked in a male-dominated environment and it has always been a professional setting. Men just do not care about non-work related issues while they are at work. This is why i believe your friend's experience at medical school is different - there is a much better balance of hormones (and much larger classes) there.

I did not find your post offensive at all and do not see how you could have avoided 'eavesdropping' on the conversation unless you were to remove yourself.

It is unfortunate that vet schools aren't more like a fraternity and there wasn't so much drama. I think DVMhopeful said it best - to create your own 'less drama' group and you will find friends and associates that you have more in common with.

 

[philomycus]

It's interesting to see the intensity to which this thread has grown with the long responses. I taught high school for 9 years. You talk about drama; you have just as much drama with the teachers as you can the students. My motto was always that I just wanted to teach high school, I didn't want to be back in it. I chose to hang out with people who had their professional self together. And yeah we talked about other people to some extent, but you do it behind closed doors. Everybody judges, everybody gossips. You just don't do it ina public forum.

Just worry about yourself. Chose your friends wisely, don't get sucked in. I was worried about it too- not fitting in. But I think I've gotten over that panic. This had been my dream since I've been 12. I'm 35. I terrified about not fitting in, but then who am I there for?? I'm not screwing this up. Best thing you can always do is keep your mouth shut and put some distance between you and those you may not ethically agree with. There are going to be plently of people you can find that you'll like.

But for the record one drink impairs judgement- to what extent depends on who your are (age, weight, tolerance, etc).

 

[No Imagination]

The Kennel I worked at for ~9 years had absolutely no drama. Three times anything even remotely creeped up, it was settled in the parking lot. There are 6 guys who are permanent workers, and 5-6 more during summer months.

There was by FAR more drama in the volunteer based shelter group that we worked with.

I know the reason for this... I ain't saying

 

[Mistoffeles]

I have always worked in a male-dominated environment and it has always been a professional setting.

Wow. I'm really hoping that you didn't intend to imply a correlation or a causation.

Men just do not care about non-work related issues while they are at work.

Can I get that in a contract? "I am a male, and therefore the following conditions apply: I agree not to care about non-work related issues while I am at work. I agree that what is going on in my personal like will have absolutely no impact on how I interact with my co-workers, clients, or random passers-by on the street. I agree that once I leave the boundaries of my home, that everything will be hunky-dory and chipper."

This is why i believe your friend's experience at medical school is different - there is a much better balance of hormones (and much larger classes) there.

The parenthetical portion of your statement is fine, the rest . . .

It is unfortunate that vet schools aren't more like a fraternity and there wasn't so much drama.

Not sure what fraternities you've belonged to . . . but I've never seen one where drama wasn't a part of it, including professional, social, service, and any other category that you might think of, both co-ed and unisex. Yes, you can always "create a drama-free bubble around yourself" (that was a friend's profile quote on AOL years back when AOL still mattered in the online world), but that bubble will sometimes get punctured (or perhaps just develop a slow leak). When that happens, you need to decide how to handle the situation. You can say "I'm in a bubble, la la la la la" with your fingers in your ears, and hope that the problem goes away (which it eventually will, and perhaps with it your reputation for giving a damn about whatever group or whichever individual is having the drama) or you can acknowledge that the drama is intense, it can be annoying and obnoxious, but it can also be healthy.

I'm not advocating one path or another - in fact, I tend to take the "ignore" route, and have gained the reputation of somewhat of an aloof and arrogant individual without much regard for the feelings or concerns of others. In fact, I care a great deal, but I have difficulty with that in public and in groups. My issue, but there you have it.

 

[nyanko]

^^ didn't you know that we gossipy chatterboxes are not fit to handle the working world, as we are all emotionally unstable and prone to histrionics?

Really, we should just stay at home and watch our soaps and let the menfolk go out and make every single work environment completely drama-free!

 

[DVMhopeful]

uhh yahh....i'm sorry, but i think insinuating that men are less dramatic, gossipy, and what have you in the workplace is completely asinine. I recently quit a job at a wildlife park because the park foreman...a MALE...was CONSTANTLY gossiping, and starting **** amongst the workers...the entire place would run a billion times smoother if it wasn't for that MAN....so please, join us in the 21st century and start viewing males and females as equals

 

[No Imagination]

so please, join us in the 21st century and start viewing males and females as equals

Soon as women are treated as equals by the federal government

 

[bovine]

I dont care what anyone else says with more than 80% females there is bound to be a good bit of drama in vet school... Thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth, which is probably nothing.

 

[susiewaits]

I dont care what anyone else says with more than 80% females there is bound to be a good bit of drama in vet school... Thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth, which is probably nothing.

As a woman, I 100% agree.

 

[bunnity]

I dont care what anyone else says with more than 80% females there is bound to be a good bit of drama in vet school... Thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth, which is probably nothing.

Out of 30 cardiologists that work in my hospital there is one female cardiologist. There is plenty of cardiologist drama.

My department is all female technicians. There is plenty of technician drama.

I resent the implication that those of us without penises are somehow more dramatic.

 

[susiewaits]

40-150 people in one room 40+ hours a week = drama no matter which way you cut it. It doesn't matter if its all women, all men, all children, all adults. Deal with it.

 

[gracietiger]

It does seem that people are very passionate about this issue. No matter where we stand on this debate, I can definitely see I am not the only one who has a strong opinion!

Fortunately, I am no longer emotionally unsettled by the conversation that I overheard, but of course still disagree with the behavior demonstrated. I am glad that we had the input of a teacher, because I believe that is probably one of the professions where public image is highly important. I have no doubt drama occurs in ALL careers and work-places, but how it is handled I think varies a great deal. Some careers have zero tolerance for public discussion of the workplace (I used to work for a children's advocate organization, and we had to strictly adhere to rules where no child or family member's name could be used in public). However, I understand that veterinary medicine is its own entity and has its own guidelines. I'm just not familiar with them yet.

Overall, I think the reason I was so upset about the whole thing is because I was just seriously let down. Perhaps I put vet students and veterinarians on a bit of a pedastal because I long to be in their shoes one day, so I was just incredibly disappointed by the unprofessionalism that I witnessed.
And it's easy to say "keep your eyes on the prize" and just ignore it, but that's really tough. Four years is a long time. Like everyone else here, I want those four years (if I get in!) to be the most enjoyable possible, so I want to make sure I am considering my aversion to "drama" when selecting schools.

Really, as a California resident who doesn't have an option of moving out of state at this point, I am only going to apply to Davis and Western. I began this thread, though I lost track of my intention in complaining about the conversation I overheard, because I want to know if Western tends to have less drama because of its drastically different teaching style than Davis? Or, if drama is drama is drama, and it's just pretty much equal everywhere? Or, if people find that the larger classes (like Davis) tend to have more or less drama?

 

[No Imagination]

Out of 30 cardiologists that work in my hospital

Do you work at the vet school? I didn't even think they would have 30 cardiologists

 

[CatVet2Be]

Don't worry, you'll find plenty of drama at Western as well.

And while I know more than enough guys who are very, very gossipy and prone to excessive drama it seems as though women are more likely to be involved. Part of it is the way many women deal with things: passive aggressive vs. confronting the issue head on. We (generally speaking) tend to want to get along with everyone but personalities clash and frustrations build. One way to release the frustration is to vent to others you're close to but that results in gossip. I find most guys tend to either be blunt and deal with the issue or ignore it completely. The way the two genders respond the similar situations makes sense from a sociological stand point, we (women) are trained and influenced to react in certain ways while guys are encouraged to deal with things differently.

disclaimer: there's always the exception to the rule but stereotypes evolve from some basis in truth and experience and stereotypically women tend to be more "gossipy" as a whole.

 

[flyhi]

Wow. I'm really hoping that you didn't intend to imply a correlation or a causation.

Can I get that in a contract? "I am a male, and therefore the following conditions apply: I agree not to care about non-work related issues while I am at work. I agree that what is going on in my personal like will have absolutely no impact on how I interact with my co-workers, clients, or random passers-by on the street. I agree that once I leave the boundaries of my home, that everything will be hunky-dory and chipper."

The parenthetical portion of your statement is fine, the rest . . .

Not sure what fraternities you've belonged to . . . but I've never seen one where drama wasn't a part of it, including professional, social, service, and any other category that you might think of, both co-ed and unisex. Yes, you can always "create a drama-free bubble around yourself" (that was a friend's profile quote on AOL years back when AOL still mattered in the online world), but that bubble will sometimes get punctured (or perhaps just develop a slow leak). When that happens, you need to decide how to handle the situation. You can say "I'm in a bubble, la la la la la" with your fingers in your ears, and hope that the problem goes away (which it eventually will, and perhaps with it your reputation for giving a damn about whatever group or whichever individual is having the drama) or you can acknowledge that the drama is intense, it can be annoying and obnoxious, but it can also be healthy.

I'm not advocating one path or another - in fact, I tend to take the "ignore" route, and have gained the reputation of somewhat of an aloof and arrogant individual without much regard for the feelings or concerns of others. In fact, I care a great deal, but I have difficulty with that in public and in groups. My issue, but there you have it.

I am insinuating and implying everything that you think i am. It's my personal experience (not necessarily anyone else's) that men are MUCH easier to work with in a professional setting.

Just look how nyanko bit off gracietiger's head and spit down her neck for merely explaining a situation she was in and offended by. Then, you have Nexx, who comes along and is much more pragmatic about the whole situation and didn't let his hormones get in the way of the real issue at hand.

 

[bunnity]

Do you work at the vet school? I didn't even think they would have 30 cardiologists

I was talking about my people-hospital job (I haven't moved to Philly yet so I'm still working here). That's why there are so many cardiologists 🙂

And flyhi, you chose two responders out of this whole thread and tried to prove something from it. And hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure making sexist comments counts as starting drama

 

[No Imagination]

Just look how nyanko bit off gracietiger's head and spit down her neck for merely explaining a situation she was in and offended by. Then, you have Nexx, who comes along and is much more pragmatic about the whole situation and didn't let his hormones get in the way of the real issue at hand.

 

[Trilt]

flyhi- Nyanko bites off everybody's head at one point or the other. It isn't her gender... it is her. (No offense meant to Nyanko- just an observation. And I think you've verified that yourself at least once. xD)

And as bunnity stated: A+ for ignoring every other female who posted here very calmly and rationally.

 

[No Imagination]

I was talking about my people-hospital job

Ahh.

 

[nyanko]

Just look how nyanko bit off gracietiger's head and spit down her neck for merely explaining a situation she was in and offended by. Then, you have Nexx, who comes along and is much more pragmatic about the whole situation and didn't let his hormones get in the way of the real issue at hand.

You didn't even read the original post that I was responding to, as it was actually edited out by the time my post even went through. Not only that, but if you are insinuating, as others are, that the way "women respond to things" is by passive-aggressive gossipy BS, then well isn't my response the 100% complete opposite of that? Sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree, and trying to troll the wrong chick. If everyone confronted things like I did, there would be a lot less lame ass gossip in the world.

And as others stated, how I am is a function of me, not of my gender. I am....not quite a very typical example of a female. You're a perfectly typical example of a jackass, though!

 

[athane960]

Drama in the drama thread . . . ironic

 

[sumstorm]

Not only that, but if you are insinuating, as others are, that the way "women respond to things" is by passive-aggressive gossipy BS, then well isn't my response the 100% complete opposite of that? Sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree, and trying to troll the wrong chick. If everyone confronted things like I did, there would be a lot less lame ass gossip in the world.

I am shocked to say this, but I have to agree with Nyanko that drama is not related to gender. Also, drama occurs even with people who confront issues head on becaues people around them will still gossip: "did you HEAR what she said to him?" I am pretty blunt, and can't waste time with passive agressiveness. I have worked in environments where I am the only female (most fishing fleets), the environment is balanced (zoo work) and the environment is mostly female (local shelter/HS work.) There is plenty of drama in all of those environments depending on the participants and on the leadership. Some boats are hot houses of drama (watch Deadliest Catch, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting without the drama) and are all male. Some have 0 drama. The humane society I deal with is mostly unnecesarry drama, but the one a county over (that I also work with) is also nearly all female and has very little drama. In both of those situations, I think leadership plays a large part. In the zoo world the drama is within and between zoos; competion for customers and financial support combined with various populations withing the zoo (volunteers, staff, departments, societies, benefactors, board members, government officials) contributes to drama, but some organizations have such amazing loyalty (not necessarily due to leadership) that the drama is pretty low.

Having attended HS with a graduating class of less than 100 and an entire school population of less than 180, it IS possible to have minimal drama with a limited population all in the same rooms all the time. We even lived in the same dorm. The more people who chose not to participate, the less likely drama is to bubble up. The ability to be tolerant of others and to take responsibility for ourselves is a large part of that. Even if it does bubble up, you can chose to stay seperate from it. That isn't always easy, but my understanding is that at many schools people tend to form clusters with like minded students. Surround yourself with others who value a drama-free environment.

 

[gracietiger]

Sumstorm - Very well said! Agreed!

 

[nyanko]

I think it's also going to depend on what you're defining as "drama." The OP was talking about a situation where people were complaining about classmates behind their backs. In this thread, me disagreeing with someone to their face was called drama. So basically, if we take a broad enough definition of drama then unless everyone just agrees with each other on every issue all the time, or completely keeps their mouth shut if they don't (how would progress ever be made in a society like that???) then drama is completely unavoidable, regardless of whether the people involved have hoo-has or doo-dads.

 

[Caninerepro]

I just want everyone to note that I did not start this, I did not contribute to this, I have had nothing to do with this.

I gotta love my aviator girl though.

 

[twelvetigers]

I resent the implication that those of us without penises are somehow more dramatic.

LULZ

I like this thread.

 

[chris03333]

I just posted this whole thread about being a little frustrated by some drama I had overheard in a public setting from a group of vet students, but decided to just ask this instead:

Is the drama really rampant in vet school? Is it avoidable? For the people who stay out of it, are they loners in their class? Are there schools more "known" for the drama than others?

Yes, yes, in my case yes...and No.

It is welcome to highschool part 2.