Drexel IMS/MMS from a Student's View

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Sargetalon

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***If you are reading this post for the first time, please read my last post on page 4 as it is equally important to get a comprehensive view of the program***

Hello everyone…I am in Drexel’s IMS/MMS program and I want to share information that no one was able to give me prior to applying and enrolling. I’m trying to supply an objective view of the program because I don’t want others to go through what my classmates and I have. This post is a little long but definitely worth the read.

Pros: This program lets you take 70% of the first year course load at Drexel’s College of Medicine. The classes are biochemistry, physiology, immunology, histology, nutrition, and neuroscience. This has the potential to help you make up your mind if you aren’t certain you want to pursue this line of study or if you need to boost your GPA to gain admission to medical school. Also, most of the professors within Drexel Med are top notch. If you come to learn, none of the shortcomings listed below are insurmountable.

Cons:
I’m going to break this section up so I can touch on most aspects of the program’s inadequacy…

Classes:
You are never directly taught by a flesh and blood professor. All of your lectures are simulcast on a movie screen via projector. Sounds great in theory except it often doesn’t work. There will be MANY times when you can’t hear the lecture, see the pointer, clearly make out illustrations, or miss parts of the presentation due to the camera not being properly aligned. These are not rare occurrences. Even though you can access those missed portions from home on your computer, the quality there is rarely little better.

I won’t comment on the quality of the medical school classes because the IMS/MMS program is the focus of this review. One class, however, is solely for the IMS year, Medicine and Society. This course is structured in the manner of an assigned reading, a summary essay, a small group discussion, and a large group discussion all on medical ethics. The problem here is that the grading for the course is COMPLETELY subjective. Your TA’s determine your grade for the most part and they ALL GRADE DIFFERENTLY. With one TA everyone gets A’s and with another no one does. It’s also a conflict of interest as these TA’s are applying to medical school the same time you are. Many people will get a 4.0 in the med school courses only to have their GPA brought down by the subjective grading of this course.

Facilities:
If you don’t mind taking tests in a dungeon, this is the place for you. The lighting is horrendous in most of the random rooms you are asked to take an exam in during the first year. If you go on to the second year, the lighting is fine but don’t be surprised if you end up taking a test on your neighbors lap. That’s what happens when you fit 40 people in a room built for 15. Whereas this happens, it does tend to be more of the exception rather than the rule. Furthermore, you’ll often times have your assigned room moved out from under you making a schedule useless due to the large number of programs that use the building. You have to check with the office right up until class time to verify your room. For the first year, you are generally in a lecture hall with desks. For the second year, you better get used to taking notes on your lap because not only has your viewing screen shrunk to the size of a television, they often don’t give you desks.

Financial Aid: Good luck. Some people wait 4 of 5 months to have a loan dispersed. Drexel’s financial aid is also quick to point out that it’s no ones fault for these delays. If you like fighting a well entrenched beauracracy of ineptitude, sign on up. For the program itself, you pay about $19,000 the first year and $16,000 the second. Funny how you take 8 classes the first year and 1 the second yet pay similar amounts. Also, it’s interesting that this program generates millions of dollars annually which Drexel uses to plug the holes in its budget.

Admission to Medical School: Sure the program gets many of its students into medical school but it neglects to inform students before hand that those figures seem biased towards osteopathic school. Also, unless you are the top of the class with a killer MCAT and just had trouble in your undergrad years, don’t expect Drexel to welcome you with open arms into their med school. Due to a restructuring, Drexel takes very few students into their first year class from the IMS/MMS program and you get next to NO preferential treatment in the admissions process.

The program will offer you a guaranteed interview with Drexel if you get a B or better in every class but, as we find out, you’re interview can come anywhere in the admission cycle, including March or later, allowing many undergrads in before you.

The above is by no means an exhaustive list and I invite my classmates to sound off about any points that I may have missed or that they disagree with. In the end, you must make the decision yourself but I wanted to give you the information that isn’t readily available. The truth is, if you have a good MCAT/GPA, save your $40,000. If you need to raise your MCAT to get in, don’t go with this program because you learn nothing to improve your MCAT scores (Go with the MSP). Good luck and thanks for reading.
 
Sargetalon

Sorry that you had such a horrible experience! I hope that you have success in getting into medical despite your set back. I for one am very greatful that you shared you're experience with the rest of us arming us with the info needed to chose a quality "special masters program". Not that this program is very special. I will be crossing off Drexel from my list.
 
Well, the posts are a little hard to find I think, but I think CaptainZero (I think that's the name) did make some posts about the negatives of the IMS awhile back. I read some of his posts and I've decided not to apply to the Drexel programs (because of the descriptions of the IMS and other personal reasons). But you definitely added some detail. You can tell when some people post negatives because they're bitter. Your commentary sounds objective and I think it'll provide a lot of insight for those considering the program.

Regarding the Pros you mentioned:

The program isn't necessarily the best if you're trying to raise your GPA because it's a formal graduate program and your grades will not affect your undergrad cume or bcpm GPAs (correct me if I'm wrong). A strong performance in the program may make up for a poor undergrad showing, but it won't improve your undergrad record.

Regarding the cons:

I heard about the telecast thing and that really kind of scares me. It sounds like you're second class citizens! My understanding is that part of that is because you're at a discounted rate compared to the med students. However, Tulane has a postbac program that offers reduced tuition and doesn't treat their students like 2nd class citizens. However, you don't get to take medical classes.

The subjective grading for the med ethics-style class sounds like BS on their part.

You mention a second year...this is the MMS component, right? Is there a reason you decided to stay for a 2nd year? And if so, why (after putting up with the not-so-wonderful experience of the IMS)? Also, I was under the impression that the MMS year was mostly research and a second-year medical course...what is the curriculum of the MMS?

There were some posts awhile back on sucky administration too...

Regarding the misleading success:

I think this is true of a lot of postbac programs--including Georgetown. Many of them seem to publish misleading statistics by saying things like "85% attend professional school." But the definition of professional school for some of these programs includes such things as medicine, dentristry, pharmacy, podiatry, etc. So that number is very misleading. Also some schools include US allopathic, US osteopathic, AND foreign schools in their statistics of percent that get into med school. I'd prefer to see those statistics compartmentalized, but I don't think any formal postbac program would want to make that break down because it deflates the success (makes it more realistic).

You mentioned that "many other Post-Bacc programs will offer a guaranteed admission for a certain level of performance in their programs." I don't know too many other programs that will offer you a guaranteed admission for a certain level of performance--at least not US allopathic schools (unless you're a minority or disadvantaged). I think the exceptions would be Georgetown and BU (where apparently you have to be at the top), Rosalind Franklin which has a strong informal linkage (but at $56k/year for five years = ouch), and maybe EVMS and UMDNJ-Newark (the former is such a small program no one seems to have insider info on the success rate). Loma Linda has a biomedical certificate that I've heard described as a "backdoor program" as well, but I don't know too much about it. Also, Loma Linda wouldn't be the school for me.

About the MCAT, Drexel has the MSP program which essentially makes you take your prereqs over. One of the primary purposes is MCAT prep. I don't think people with low MCATs should even consider the IMS. Of course, for a similar price you could probably take an MCAT prep course and get extensive private tutoring and get the same results as the MSP 😀 But it seems that some people feel like they MUST do a postbac...

Thanks again for the insight. I had already decided this program was not for me, but I still am a strong believer in postbacs in general. Anyway, I'll see if I can find some of those old posts about the negatives of the Drexel IMS.
 
Phil,

It's good to hear that you have a good handle on this issue. Gives me hope that people out there know what they are getting into before hand. Here are some answers to your questions.

We are most certainly second class citizens. You hit the nail on the head with that one.

I stayed for a second year despite the first because that was a condition of my admission due to my test scores.

The MMS curriculum is one med school course, usually Pharmacology or Pathology, a Research Seminar that meets every Monday, a Lab Techniques Course, and 20 hrs of research a week, none of which is worth your time or the price of admission.
 
Sargetalon said:
It's good to hear that you have a good handle on this issue. Gives me hope that people out there know what they are getting into before hand.
Speaking of which, I found some of the posts I mentioned:

Exaggerated Stats

"The Campus" aka the Dilapidated Building

More on the facilities...

Second -Class Citizenship, Poor Administration, and Application Cycle Disadvantages

I think Drexel IMS has the advantage of proving that one can handle medical school course work, but I think those who are considering the IMS should know what they're getting themselves into.

If you're applying this cycle, good luck!
 
I just want to say that I think Drexel's post-bacc (I did the evening one for people with no pre-requisites, NOT the IMS or MSP) is fabulous! I just finished the program, and am applying for linkage to Drexel med. I think the administration is perfectly nice- I've never had a problem getting meetings or my e-mails answered. And it's the same administration as you IMS people have. I think perhaps the administrative staff is tired being treated like crap by students... I know that some people in my post-bacc just have the biggest sense of entitlement ever and are completely rude to the administration. In my case, it hasn't been a problem.

Honestly, I think the professors and administrators are completey fair, though to be honest I haven't had any terribly subjective classes. Compared to my undergrad school (Georgetown), the professors and administrators at Drexel go out of their way to help you.

As for the building... it used to be where the med school classes were. It's adequate. No, it's not awesome, but it's fine. My dad went all through med school there (and he says it looks exactly the same!). Not a big deal.

Just another point of view, though again, I'm NOT in the IMS or MSP program. I really am grateful to Drexel, though, because I think I really got a lot out of their post-bacc.
 
i'm halfway done with IMS right now and i completely agree with Sargetalon's post. i really don't think that there's much to point out besides what he wrote. bottomline, if i had to choose a post-bacc program again, i probably would not have chosen drexel. i only chose drexel because i did not do much research about these programs and i applied really late so there weren't a lot of options open for me.
 
undefined Hey, I'm applying to the Drexel (MSP) , BU, and UMDNJ smp programs. How well do you think you need to do in the program for it to help you get in? If i do the MSP program and do relatively well, would I be wise to apply to med school the summer after my msp program? What are the succes rates of ur classmates getting into allopathic med school programs? Thanx alot, I really appreciate all the info.

-Rahul
 
Sargelton i'm not sure what you expected out of this program. You should probably explain what your situation was prior to going into the program. If you are in the IMS program you needed a 27 or above on the MCAT to get in and a somewhat normal GPA. Did you think you would be instructed on retaking the MCAT or have time (your taking 70% of the medical school classes) to retake the MCAT? Why was this a big point of yours. You should have know this was not possible while taking the program.

True your never taught by real instructors but you can watch these lectures online (over and over and over). I agree the quality is poor for the most part but again, dude you didn't make it into medical school the first time (or in most cases 2 or 3 times). You can always go to the caribbean or trying being a little bit more holistic and go to D.O. school.

Your medicine and society class sucks I agree. But since your going into MMS (are you and if so why since you bitched so much about this program?) then you will be able to abuse whoever you want since you feel cheated (Now you will be the TA). Again that class is poop.

Ok about the exam lighting and stuff. Are you serious? Big deal suck it up and get into medical school the first time or again see the other routes. I know many of your classmates and I don't think lighting was top of the list on gripes.

Which gets us to the #1 gripe. The administration. Well you hit the nail on the head there. But...the main man is available anytime and you can see him wandering the halls of all times of the day. Just talk to him or complain or ask for a refund whatever you need.

I think drexel's financial aid office is ranked almost the worst in the country. Yeah that bad

Now the #1 killer admission to medical school. I know a significant number of people already accepted to medical school from your program or have been through quite a few interviews. If you have not been getting them, then you should probably reasses your situation and again there is the carribean or D.O. school. All of the MSP TA"s have been accepted to medical school. I wouldn't realy on the guaranteed Drexel interview to get you in because you probably won't get it unless you are part of the conditions you expressed (killer MCAT top of the class etc..,).

Good luck man you seem pissed.
 
I had a great experience in IMS/MMS, and I disagree greatly with Sargetalon's post; however, he's entitled to his opinion and it's good that people get different POVs of the programs. I agree wholeheartedly with UnskinnyBop's post (particularly RE: sense of entitlement) and in my experience, her observations fit IMS/MMS like a glove.

Two quick things:
1. Hopefully it's just semantics, but NO program "gets you into medical school." You, the applicant, with your credentials, success & failures, etc., get yourself into medical school. In my experience as a post bacc & non trad applicant, and even as a med student, taking responsibility and not blaming others (TA's, administrators, tests, programs, lighting) for your performance correlates strongly with success.

2. Subjective grading: Better get used to it. From 3rd year on through residency, your grades are, for the most part, subjectively derived. Learn to deal and prosper; whinging about subjective grading certainly doesn't get one on the grader's good side...

Good luck to everyone,
 
The bottom line about the IMS program is that people aren't getting into US allopathic schools because IMS students aren't doing well in the classes. When I attended the program last year, about 25 people out of 70 (only this many applying) did well enough to get the interview at Drexel Med.
Medicine and Society is a joke, but the people who didnt get A's in this class are the ones who didnt speak in large group, or did their papers during lunch before class.
As far as the administration is concerned, you should never have to deal with them. You go to class, you do well on the tests, and then you leave. The only time you should have to deal with the office is when your transcripts go out.
Having just defended Drexel, I would caution potential applicants. Drexel Med has had recent problems and these prolems have had an impact on the acceptance of IMS/MMS students.
 
Airzonk: I appreciate your advice on my academic future but it was neither requested nor welcome. I did not post becuase of a bad situation. I have been on interviews myself and have a pretty positive outlook on where I'm going next. My post was just to inform of my experiences and help others make a more informed decision. It was not retaliation for any injustices I feel Drexel may have perpetrated.

deanli: I agree whole-heartedly with your post. Again, I'm not blaming others. I am happy with my IMS/MMS performance. You can do well despite all of the many problems with the program but there are better programs out there. I was just trying to give those thinking of choosing this program a point of view from the inside.
 
Sargetalon,
I personally thank you for your informative post about Drexel. While alot of us try and compare programs that we should attend, some start having alot of simularities with each other.

After hearing repeated negative things about certain schools, I know where I will NOT be applying.

No Drexel for me.

Good luck with med school admissions 👍


Thanx,


Exigente :luck:
 
I highly agree with Sargetalon's assessment of Drexel's IMS program. And yes we do feel a sense of entitlement because the administration boasts that its staff is "detail oriented" and "here to help you" but really lets things slip through the cracks. For instance, one morning students taking Immunology had to be at school at 8AM for mandatory small group session. The professor never showed because there were schedule changes at the medical school that the IMS administration never followed up on. Another example... an e-mail was sent out asking specific students to stop by the office because they were missing documents in their files. Several students got to the office only to be told that their file was actually complete and they came for no reason.

I understand that every administration has its faults, but this one does not apologize at all for anything that happens and insists that we accomodate them at every turn. I feel that it all adds up to be a very frustrating process which is not necessary when one is already stressed out about applying to medical schools.
 
Sargetalon said:
Hello everyone…I have finished Drexel’s IMS/MMS program and I want to share information that no one was able to give me prior to applying and enrolling. I’m trying to supply an objective view of the program because I don’t want others to go through what my classmates and I have. This post is a little long but definitely worth the read.

Pros: This program lets you take 70% of the first year course load at Drexel’s College of Medicine. The classes are biochemistry, physiology, immunology, histology, nutrition, and neuroscience. This has the potential to help you make up your mind if you aren’t certain you want to pursue this line of study or if you need to boost your GPA to gain admission to medical school.

Cons:
I’m going to break this section up so I can touch on most aspects of the program’s inadequacy…

Classes:
You are never directly taught by a flesh and blood professor. All of your lectures are simulcast on a movie screen via projector. Sounds great in theory except it often doesn’t work. There will be MANY times when you can’t hear the lecture, see the pointer, clearly make out illustrations, or miss parts of the presentation due to the camera not being properly aligned. These are not rare occurrences. Even though you can access those missed portions from home on your computer, the quality there is rarely little better.

I won’t comment on the quality of the medical school classes because the IMS/MMS program is the focus of this review. One class, however, is solely for the IMS year, Medicine and Society. This course is structured in the manner of an assigned reading, a summary essay, a small group discussion, and a large group discussion all on medical ethics. The problem here is that the grading for the course is COMPLETELY subjective. Your TA’s determine your grade for the most part and they ALL GRADE DIFFERENTLY. With one TA everyone gets A’s and with another no one does. It’s also a conflict of interest as these TA’s are applying to medical school the same time you are. Many people will get a 4.0 in the med school courses only to have their GPA brought down by the subjective grading of this course.

Facilities:
If you don’t mind taking tests in a dungeon, this is the place for you. The lighting is horrendous in most of the random rooms you are asked to take an exam in during the first year. If you go on to the second year, the lighting is fine but don’t be surprised if you end up taking a test on your neighbors lap. That’s what happens when you fit 40 people in a room built for 15. Thankfully, they gave us $5 meal vouchers as compensation for any hit our GPA might take due to these conditions. Furthermore, you’ll often times have your assigned room moved out from under you making a schedule useless. You have to check with the office right up until class time to verify your room. For the first year, you are generally in a lecture hall with desks. For the second year, you better get used to writing on your lap because not only has your viewing screen shrunk to the size of a television, they often don’t give you desks.

Administration:
I will now present you with the good and bad points of the program’s administration. Now that we’ve finished the good points, I’ll discuss the bad. I feel that the head administrator means well and is sincere but this cannot make up for being inept and out of touch. If you would like to talk with him, you have to get through his “pitbull” aka secretary who will not so kindly direct you to one of the two lower administrators. I hesitate to call them administrators as they are little more than secretaries themselves. Good luck with responses to e-mails and phone calls, not to mention the near total lack of effort on your behalf while trying to get into medical school. You can expect slow, error prone class schedules and lots of grief from this office. Incidentally, morale is through the floor, such that you may never again meet more miserable people in your life.

Financial Aid: Good luck. Some people wait 4 of 5 months to have a loan dispersed. Drexel’s financial aid is also quick to point out that it’s no ones fault for these delays. If you like fighting a well entrenched beauracracy of ineptitude, sign on up. For the program itself, you pay about $19,000 the first year and $16,000 the second. Funny how you take 8 classes the first year and 1 the second yet pay similar amounts. Also, it’s interesting that this program generates millions of dollars annually which Drexel uses to plug the holes in its budget. In this program you’re worth nothing more than your tuition as getting into medical school is incidental and serendipitous as far as the program is concerned.

Admission to Medical School: Don’t hold your breath. Sure the program gets many of its students into medical school but it neglects to inform students before hand that those figures seem heavily biased towards osteopathic school. Also, unless you are the top of the class with a killer MCAT and just had trouble in your undergrad years, don’t expect Drexel to welcome you with open arms into their med school. Due to a restructuring, Drexel takes very few students into their first year class from the IMS/MMS program and you get next to NO preferential treatment in the admissions process.

The program will offer you a guaranteed interview with Drexel if you get a B or better in every class but, as we find out, you’re interview can come anywhere in the admission cycle, including March or later, allowing many undergrads in before you. Many other Post-Bacc programs will offer a guaranteed admission for a certain level of performance in their programs and I would say that is a much more desirable situation.

The above is by no means an exhaustive list and I invite my classmates to sound off about any points that I may have missed or that they disagree with. In the end, you must make the decision yourself but I wanted to give you the information that isn’t readily available. The truth is, if you have a good MCAT/GPA, save your $40,000. If you need to raise your MCAT to get in, don’t go with this program because you learn nothing to improve your MCAT scores. Please get this information to anyone you think can use it because it might be able to save you or someone you know from making a mistake. Good luck and thanks for reading.
Amen.

...But there is something to the "suck it up and deal with it" argument...As much BS as there is assoc with IMS, it took me from having a snowball's chance in hell at getting into med school to getting into 2 of the 5 schools i applied to (and this is not to discredit Sargetalon's comments on "Admissions to Medical School - he was right on with that stuff, I just worked twice as hard as most of the other people in IMS; e.g. -while they were at the winter semi-formal, I was in the library up to my ears in Cardiac Physiology)...and by the middle of your first year at med school (where i'm at now), the crappy lights, schedule screw ups and and incompetant administration will be but a distant memory...it does suck to have to live through it though - especially for 20K/year
 
Sargetalon said:
UnskinnyBop: You defend the administrative staff. I do have a sense of entitlement. I feel that I'm entitled to an accurate and reasonably updated schedule, at least a days advance notice of classroom changes, and prompt, polite correspondence. I think we would all ask for as much and they just aren't delivering.

I'm in the Evening Program a year behind Unskinny, which means my class is about to start Physics II and Chem II. To sum up Drexel's administration, over half of my class showed up this past Monday (January 3rd) to Chem II lecture. Problem - there was no Chem II lecture. The new term doesn't begin until next week (Jan 10th). People drove in from all over, some over an hour away. Others came back from Christmas break that weekend just to be back at class. Meanwhile, they didn't have to come back for another whole week. The people who didn't show up because they knew when class was saw it on the web when they checked their grades. Those who knew their grades and therefor didn't check the web showed up. Originally we were given the wrong info. Buyer Beware.
 
Dude, that's not an administrative problem. That's a Scerbo problem. I heart Scerbo.

Edit- Oh, actually, you must not have gotten the e-mails from Laura. I got two that clearly state that classes start the 10th. Are you not on the som-pmed list? That could totally be your problem.
 
Sargelton, I do apologize. Most of the stuff you are right on about and your post should absolutely serve as a warning. Not sure where I became defender of the institution and all, I think it was the holiday's upon us. Man I feel your plight and looking at what is spent on this program and what we get one has to wonder. This is some depressing crap. If you can save your 20+k and get into a medical school on your own do it because you really don't want to be here. Oh and there is absolutely NO guarantee you'll be anywhere after you do spend all that loot. Bah...
 
This is actually exactly the thing I'm talking about. This isn't meant as a personal attack at all (since I probably see you on campus!), but I don't know what you expect. If you're on the e-mail listserve, you should have received an e-mail that clearly stated that classes begin on the 10th of January. I know that the program directors make sure they have an e-mail address from you. It's your responsibility to check it and make sure you're getting the e-mails. This is exactly what I mean by a "sense of entitlement". No one is going to hold your hand in med school and call you and tell you when classes are... It's just a little frustrating to see people trashing Drexel when Drexel gives people a great opportunity to succeed. 😉
 
UnskinnyBop said:
No one is going to hold your hand in med school and call you and tell you when classes are...😉
No, but an accurate schedule will be provided at the beginning of the year. I mean seriously - if laura and soslau were on top of their **** and did their jobs well, you'd know in August when your winter break was going to be over...it wouldn't be a matter of missing an email sometime in january.
 
Mouseman said:
The bottom line about the IMS program is that people aren't getting into US allopathic schools because IMS students aren't doing well in the classes.
Definitely true too...IMS is not by any means a free ticket to medical school although many incoming IMS students have that notion so they slack off and don't work as hard as they should/could...
 
Sargetalon said:
Hello everyone…I have finished Drexel’s IMS/MMS program and I want to share information that no one was able to give me prior to applying and enrolling. I’m trying to supply an objective view of the program because I don’t want others to go through what my classmates and I have. This post is a little long but definitely worth the read.

Pros: This program lets you take 70% of the first year course load at Drexel’s College of Medicine. The classes are biochemistry, physiology, immunology, histology, nutrition, and neuroscience. This has the potential to help you make up your mind if you aren’t certain you want to pursue this line of study or if you need to boost your GPA to gain admission to medical school.

Cons:
I’m going to break this section up so I can touch on most aspects of the program’s inadequacy…

Classes:
You are never directly taught by a flesh and blood professor. All of your lectures are simulcast on a movie screen via projector. Sounds great in theory except it often doesn’t work. There will be MANY times when you can’t hear the lecture, see the pointer, clearly make out illustrations, or miss parts of the presentation due to the camera not being properly aligned. These are not rare occurrences. Even though you can access those missed portions from home on your computer, the quality there is rarely little better.

I won’t comment on the quality of the medical school classes because the IMS/MMS program is the focus of this review. One class, however, is solely for the IMS year, Medicine and Society. This course is structured in the manner of an assigned reading, a summary essay, a small group discussion, and a large group discussion all on medical ethics. The problem here is that the grading for the course is COMPLETELY subjective. Your TA’s determine your grade for the most part and they ALL GRADE DIFFERENTLY. With one TA everyone gets A’s and with another no one does. It’s also a conflict of interest as these TA’s are applying to medical school the same time you are. Many people will get a 4.0 in the med school courses only to have their GPA brought down by the subjective grading of this course.

Facilities:
If you don’t mind taking tests in a dungeon, this is the place for you. The lighting is horrendous in most of the random rooms you are asked to take an exam in during the first year. If you go on to the second year, the lighting is fine but don’t be surprised if you end up taking a test on your neighbors lap. That’s what happens when you fit 40 people in a room built for 15. Thankfully, they gave us $5 meal vouchers as compensation for any hit our GPA might take due to these conditions. Furthermore, you’ll often times have your assigned room moved out from under you making a schedule useless. You have to check with the office right up until class time to verify your room. For the first year, you are generally in a lecture hall with desks. For the second year, you better get used to writing on your lap because not only has your viewing screen shrunk to the size of a television, they often don’t give you desks.

Administration:
I will now present you with the good and bad points of the program’s administration. Now that we’ve finished the good points, I’ll discuss the bad. I feel that the head administrator means well and is sincere but this cannot make up for being inept and out of touch. If you would like to talk with him, you have to get through his “pitbull” aka secretary who will not so kindly direct you to one of the two lower administrators. I hesitate to call them administrators as they are little more than secretaries themselves. Good luck with responses to e-mails and phone calls, not to mention the near total lack of effort on your behalf while trying to get into medical school. You can expect slow, error prone class schedules and lots of grief from this office. Incidentally, morale is through the floor, such that you may never again meet more miserable people in your life.

Financial Aid: Good luck. Some people wait 4 of 5 months to have a loan dispersed. Drexel’s financial aid is also quick to point out that it’s no ones fault for these delays. If you like fighting a well entrenched beauracracy of ineptitude, sign on up. For the program itself, you pay about $19,000 the first year and $16,000 the second. Funny how you take 8 classes the first year and 1 the second yet pay similar amounts. Also, it’s interesting that this program generates millions of dollars annually which Drexel uses to plug the holes in its budget. In this program you’re worth nothing more than your tuition as getting into medical school is incidental and serendipitous as far as the program is concerned.

Admission to Medical School: Don’t hold your breath. Sure the program gets many of its students into medical school but it neglects to inform students before hand that those figures seem heavily biased towards osteopathic school. Also, unless you are the top of the class with a killer MCAT and just had trouble in your undergrad years, don’t expect Drexel to welcome you with open arms into their med school. Due to a restructuring, Drexel takes very few students into their first year class from the IMS/MMS program and you get next to NO preferential treatment in the admissions process.

The program will offer you a guaranteed interview with Drexel if you get a B or better in every class but, as we find out, you’re interview can come anywhere in the admission cycle, including March or later, allowing many undergrads in before you. Many other Post-Bacc programs will offer a guaranteed admission for a certain level of performance in their programs and I would say that is a much more desirable situation.

The above is by no means an exhaustive list and I invite my classmates to sound off about any points that I may have missed or that they disagree with. In the end, you must make the decision yourself but I wanted to give you the information that isn’t readily available. The truth is, if you have a good MCAT/GPA, save your $40,000. If you need to raise your MCAT to get in, don’t go with this program because you learn nothing to improve your MCAT scores. Please get this information to anyone you think can use it because it might be able to save you or someone you know from making a mistake. Good luck and thanks for reading.
I am so glad you posted this. I was accepted to the IMS program in 2003 and decided not to go. First, even though I turned in my application in April, they didn't even invite me to interview until July (two weeks before the program started). I was accepted 2 days after interviewing. They expected me to quit my job, break my lease, move 2000 miles away and find 20K in a week. No way! I already started having doubts about them after I applied since it wasn't a guaranteed medical school admissions program. How much extra is it for them to really guarantee an interview? Not a whole lot. I bit the bullet and decided to take classes at the university here while I could still work.

Sargetalon, I am really glad you posted this because you have renewed my faith that I made the right decision to not go. I saved myself 30K and was still able to stay close to home and prove the same thing by bringing up my grades in undergrad science courses (which count towards the GPA that matters anyway).

For those of you that have had great experiences with this program, that's great! Maybe it's just not for everyone.
 
In defense of this shoddy program, I am happy with the schools that I have been accepted to and confident I have benefited from my experience there. However, everything that I got from this program I did on my own. My GPA was not my problem and it didn't change during the IMS year. My MCAT was low and I had to re-take it after my IMS year. My score went up, but mostly because I busted my butt on my own studying for it all summer. Also, my first year should be easier since I have already had the core classes. Still, most students would benefit more from MSP/IMS, but Drexel likes their money.
 
Sarg,
It sounds like you are a very bitter person. Is this because you had no interviews? Is it because you didn't do well at Drexel? Is it because someone there told you needed an extra year to work on your academics?

I am in the program as well and I will just tell everyone that it made me from having 0% chance at ANY school to getting MULTIPLE interviews.

I want to be a doctor and basically would do ANYTHING to do so. Coming here and putting in some time doing postgraduate work was what I chose, and it really helped my application. The other post bacc programs do not offer such a strong, medically based program that actually lets you be compared to a real medical school class.

AS for most students getting into osteopathic school...this is completely false; most students got into both osteo and allopathic programs last year; some CHOSE osteopathic schools because it was more along their belief system. The program opened my eyes to osteopathic medidine and although I did not chose to attend an osteo school I certainly respect my peers that have. To say that more people chose osteopathic is just false. Just look at the list outside the IMS office...there are MANY more allopathic schools listed; there are 2 people at NYCOM, 4 at UMDNJ, 2 at Touro, and 6 at PCOM. That hardly makes up the bulk of IMS/MMS/MBS graduates. Again, you sound very bitter.

To say that the administrators are merely secretaries is pretty rude. I suggest you actually go up to the fourth floor and speak with them; you may be surprised. If you treat someone like a person they are likely to respond to you as a person. It sounds as if you have a problem being civil to the administrators given the way you speak of them as "underlings" and "merely secretaries"

I would say the advising at Drexel has been a strong point. From the moment I was paired up with my faculty advisor he has been so very helpful. Helping me get a volunteer job, helping me with my essay. Both administrators also read my essay 5 times each and gave feedback on all occasions. Did you do the same?

The med professors do in fact come to center city for the small groups and ALL professors have been extremely approachable. Have you ever been to any office hours? Did you go to small groups? Did you use the bulletin boards? Did you write emails if you had any questions? The faculty have been so very helpful any time I have asked any question, and again I would have to disagree with you that they are not approachable. Many even have their offices in our building.

I received financial aid and took out several private loans. The money was disbursed to me within a week every time, as I have always had my forms in on time. No problems for me.

I think that this program will help you get into medical school if you put in the time and actually do the work. IT IS NOT EASY. IF YOU DO NOT DO WELL YOU WILL NOT GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL.

The school is no joke. It is very easy to fail a class (or get a C) if you do not do the necessary work. But if you do well, you will certainly be looked at seriously by med school adcoms.

edited so as to not come down on any individual presenting their views on the university
 
I don't think anyone is saying that it is not possible to do well at the Drexel program, enjoy it, and successfully go into med school (MD, DO your choice). Please do stop personally attacking the people who do post on here with their view points of how the program worked for them. I guarantee that Sargetalon's frustrations are not unique and is actually quite reflective of many current students.

1. The administration. We all know that you should be nice to everyone. But it really gets to a point where you feel no sympathy for them because they do not extend the same courtesy to you. I've posted examples of the type of treatment my classmates and I have received and none were because we treated them rudely. My biggest pet peeve with the administration is that they refuse to acknowledge when they've made a mistake, a simple apology every once in a while goes a long way.

2. Of course there is a whole list of MD schools. Let's see, how many are there? vs. how many DO schools? And that list outside the office is of what? the past 5 years? So really who knows what theh stats are. They certainly are not telling us.

3. This was a mistake many students made when deciding to come to Drexel: we can work our tails off for B+'s and A's which is actually High Pass or Honors at Drexel Med. But to adcom's they're still B's and A's. Yes there is a letter of explanation of the grading system and we all really hope that every adcom reads it and takes it into consideration but given the number of applications getting processed it is unlikely our work is given the weight it deserves. So stop suggesting that someone is posting on here because they didn't work hard enough and didn't make the grades.

For people who enjoyed the program and would recommend it to others: I'm very happy for you. This was the right decision for you. But please do not pass judgement on others who choose to share their perspectives with the community and undermine the value of what they say by insinuating they have a personal grudge against the program.

We're just trying to spread the information we wish we knew before coming here because it would have significantly affected our decisions and would like to prevent others from making the choice without being fully informed. I think we're all mature enough to accept that whether we get to go to the school of our choice is up to us and the purpose of these posts is not to use Drexel as the excuse.
 
If you don't want to read my short dissertation, just skip to the end summary.

This is from the perspective of a 2nd yr Drexel Med student who did IMS in 2002-2003.
It seems like many of you are quite upset with the IMS program, and perhaps rightfully so. But, be careful if you who decide not to do the IMS program because of the complaints of a few students.

While much of what they said was true regarding their experiences, you should also see what they are very quickly adding, almost under their breaths. I've seen now a few of the people who are posting negatively towards the program and yet adding in hapenstance that they are getting interviews and will have a future beyond the program.

Well, wake up and smell the coffee. The program does a fantastic job of preparing students for medical school. Yes, the program is quite challenging. The coursework that is given to IMS students are the largest 1st year med school classes, with the exception of gross anatomy. As a first year medical student, you will dominate your classmates academically. Not only will the coursework be repetative, but you already have the studying skills necessary to be successful.

As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY reason to do the IMS program is if your undergraduate performance is sub-par. But make sure you know why it is low. Two years ago, in my IMS class, it was strikingly obvious within the first few weeks who would be successful. It has little to do with the ability to do the work, and everything to do with the motivation and time committment. Just like someone else, I did not go to the Halloween party. I did not go to the Winter Ball. In fact, I had seen every episode of the Simpsons and Family Guy up until I started the IMS program. But, since then, I've hardly had a chance to watch them. When I was in IMS, I stayed at the building until 1 or 2am studying on most nights. I am STILL often at the Center City campus at those hours, and I hardly ever see anyone in IMS there. Often, before 1st year exams, it is rare for me to see IMS students studying. I really do wonder where everyone is. (Of course, I do realize that not everyone studies on campus.)

If you applied in April and didn't get in until July, then you made the right decision not to go. Its because they really felt you to be a weak candidate. It wasn't because they weren't doing their job. I also applied in the month of April (2002), and two weeks later I was in. Of course, it doesn't mean you won't be a great medical student or a great doctor, but for whatever reason they felt that there were better candidates. Overall, last year's IMS class (current MMS students) were of a much lower caliber than my class. Not only do I know this because my friends were on the admissions committee, but I have witnessed it firsthand. I like to tutor IMS students for a variety of reasons, but mostly its because I have the boards at the end of this year and it is a great way for me to review 1st year material. For example, someone in the current MMS class saw me tutoring and asked me to make a special appointment to meet with him the night before the biochem exam (yes, he was repeating biochem). When I met with him, his notes were clearly disheveled, and the 1st thing he asked me was if I remembered past questions. When I told him that I didn't, he really didn't have much more to ask. He was completely unprepared for the exam which was the next morning.

In addition to this circumstantial evidence, I'm also aware of many of the current 1st year Med student's grades when they were in IMS (b/c I tutored them as well). Last year, only the students who got accepted right away after their guarenteed interview got into Drexel (To get a guarenteed interview, you must get B's or better in all the coursework. The interview is usually the 1st Mon and Tues of Feb, and they most definetly are looked at specially). There was no movement from the waitlist last year. What is interesting is that some people who got in right away had siginificantly lower grades in IMS than I did. I was waitlisted and got off in mid June, exactly one week after the last grade was posted.

For those curious minds, my grades were as follows, by semester:
Biochem: B+, A
Microanatomy: A-, B
Nutrition: B-
Immunology: A-,B+
Physiology: B+, B+
Neuroscience: A
Medicine and Society (=med ethics): A,A

Many students are bitter in the IMS program because they get straight B's or a few B-'s, and they feel that they are performing at the same level as the medical students. The reality is the medical student's curriculum is much more rigorous than the IMS students realize. The Admission's committee is made up of many of the head professors of these classes, so they are aware. The students in the IMS program need to do better than average. When you have 2 hours of lecture in a day and the med students have class from 8am till 4pm, you should really be studying during the majority of those hours and then well into the night. Not only is it to show just how great you are, but you also need to bring up your GPA.

Many of you have raised concerns over scheduling issues. Strictly speaking for the IMS program, and not the DPMS night program, you get a calander for each semester. Consider yourselves lucky. As a medical student, I don't know when I have mandatory classes until we get our next module guide with the calander in it. When I was in IMS, I always checked the calander we got in August vs the calander that's in the module guide. The calander changes every once in a while usually because there are guest lecturers, even if they are in classes other than what the IMS students take. Occasionally, they have conflicts, and your schedule changes. THIS SORT OF STUFF ALSO HAPPENS TO MEDICAL STUDENTS. I'd bet the farm it will probably happen at least once at whatever med school you're at.

As I said before, I often study at the Center City campus. I happen to really like it there. Sure there are some desks that don't have light bulbs in them, but I just sit somewhere else. Often times I'll study in a classroom just to escape everyone else and have use of a dry erase board. I completely admit that the seats in the lecture hall are uncomfortable, but where will you find a lecture hall that is very comfortable after hours of sitting? As far as the poor quality of picture/audio during lectures, well, I hardly ever heard anyone use the microphone in Center City letting the professors know they can't be heard or seen. When I was in IMS we used it often (obviously its a problem that needs to be addressed) but the professor's won't go on if you let them know you're having problems.

I think the original poster said there weren't any live professors. While the lectures are simulcasted, ALL THE CONFERENCES ARE TAUGHT BY THE SAME PROFESSORS THE MEDICAL STUDENTS GET IN PERSON. These are opportunities for the students to ask questions and go over relavent material. Additionally, a notable strength about Drexel Med is that all the head professors have open door policies for office hours. This includes IMS students too.

Lastly, the only real interaction I had with the administration was getting my 'advisor' letter sent out. Other than that, I always said hi to them and smiled whenever I saw them. I never had any real problems with them.

SUMMARY
Only do the IMS program if your grades that are keeping you out of med school. If your MCAT is below a 29, you should consider trying to improve it. The IMS program is whatever you make of it. If you work hard, and study like its your job (it really is), then you will get into medical school if you really belong. The administration has little to do with your academic success in the program. The lectures that are simulcasted to the Center City campus is the same quality that is shown in the overflow room for Drexel Medical students (the irony is that there are many seats open in the auditorium b/c people CHOOSE to watch them online, which is also the same quality video, or in the overflow room). The competetiveness is soley within yourself, unlike at other programs like Georgetown. You are not competing against anyone else in the IMS class for your grades. While the facilities could be better, they are nowhere near as poor as made out to be. Remember, other programs such as undergraduate, nursing, PA, PT, and EMS use the same facilities. In addition, classes are held for 3rd and 4th year med students there as well as resident doctors. Remember, you're doing the program because you had too much fun in college and your grades suffered (of course there are some exceptions). The IMS program is a time to buckle down and show the med schools what you can really do. Without failure, if you work as hard as a medical student you will soon be one.
 
Hey, first off, I just wanna thank u guys for all the info... I have some questions about the applications though. First off, the application says it wants three letters of recomendation, one of which must be from a non science class... but the only non science classes i took in the last two years were enormous intro classes to fill undergrad graduation requirments because i'm doing a b.s., would they mind if I sent in all three letters from science professors? is there anyone I can contact about this? I tried emailing but no one got back to me.

my other question is about when to send the applications in? obviously the sooner the better, but mid february isn't too late is it?

thanxs in advance for any info.
🙂
 
monu1234 said:
is there anyone I can contact about this? I tried emailing but no one got back to me.
🙂
HAAHAHAHAA....case and point....get used to it...seriously though try calling the office - probably won't get ya anywhere, but it might be worth a shot. can you get a letter of rec from a non academic source like an MD you worked with?
mid feb isn't too late...they don't even start accepting apps until around then...
 
HydroxylGroupOH said:
Sarg,
It sounds like you are a very bitter person. Is this because you had no interviews? Is it because you didn't do well at Drexel? Is it because someone there told you needed an extra year to work on your academics?
Okay...i know that this wasn't directed at me, but i think for you to rattle off these presumptive questions is a bit...well, presumptive. Don't just assume that the people that have/had probs with the administration etc. are complaining only because they did poorly or received some constructive criticism - that you are sardonically implying that they could not take (I'm refering to your last question). I agree with most of Sarg's remarks, especially regarding the administration. I had a 3.94 first semester of IMS and a 4.0 second semseter and got into 40% of the schools I applied to (okay...2 out of 5...but 40 % sounds better right? 🙄 ) ...so my opinion is not stemming from me being pissed at getting bad grades or not getting into school

I'm glad your IMs experience has been good. I agree with you on the finer points of the program, however, as I said, I do also agree with most of sarg's comments, especially regarding the administration... I have seldom if ever in my life met people (a person, really) that is that openly rude, callous and incompetant...and I can assure you that I was not in any way provoking this type of interaction. In the end though, it is a matter of what you make of it. There's a lot (too much) BS to deal with at IMS. But if you can suck it up and deal with it for a year, then the program can definitely help you..if you help yourself first. I guess, I won't go so far as to say "Don't do the program", but I will advise you not to expect much (i.e. sarg is right about 90% of his remarks)...
 
HydroxylGroupOH said:
I suggest you actually go up to the fourth floor and speak with them; you may be surprised. If you treat someone like a person they are likely to respond to you as a person.
thanks dad
 
Airzonk said:
Sargelton, I do apologize. Most of the stuff you are right on about and your post should absolutely serve as a warning. Not sure where I became defender of the institution and all, I think it was the holiday's upon us. Man I feel your plight and looking at what is spent on this program and what we get one has to wonder. This is some depressing crap. If you can save your 20+k and get into a medical school on your own do it because you really don't want to be here. Oh and there is absolutely NO guarantee you'll be anywhere after you do spend all that loot. Bah...

First I would like to say that I have pondered quite alot about responding the not so nice eval of the IMS program. I am not "defender" of Drexel. But I am a graduate of the program. I did the IMS yr and the MMS yr. I was a TA, I was involved in alot of activities including the Pediatric AIDS event. And I just want to make a few points:

1. Obviously anyone applying to the prog couldn't get into med school the traditional way. If and only if the IMS prog increases your chances of getting into med school at all then is it really that bad? Hell, when I did the prog i was praying that even a DO (yes...i said it) school admitted me to their prog. If you are given a second chance does it have to be in the best packaging with a pretty bow? Or should you make the best of it and get what you need to and move on?

2. As for the administration, all I cared about was whether my grades were right and my transcript was updated. I figured out where i was supposed to go and when. And they tell u at orientation to check your emails...they do email you with changes... And if you don't like them or their attitudes, get what you need and move on. You are supposed to be a future doc, how will you deal with bad attitudes then?

3. As for the facilities...what can I say...start a student group and complain...but I wasn't there for the plush accomodations. I just wanted to get to medical school.

4. I am in med school now. I tutor people in my class because of the IMS program. I am grateful to be able to do so well because of my experience there. I am also more appreciative of where I am because of where i was.

Bottom line, you are not there for the staff, for the facilities. You are there to absorb and absorb and absorb. And if u do that and do it darn well, then you accomplished what you needed to. Because this is all about where you need to be and what you need to do. And obviously we all needed a second chance, or third or fourth. So if you got that, then, why wasn't it worth it and who are we to complain?

:meanie:
 
stealthbomber said:
There would be a case for the "suck it up" attitude when dealing with the aministration, if the students were not the one's paying their salary. Tuition is not cheap in the Drexel program and I think most students would not mind if their dealings with the administration were minimal. However, due to normal interaction and screw-ups on the part of the aministration, dealing with the admin becomes a necessary evil for all students. And since paying roughly $20,000/year, is it too much to ask for lights that work and admin that doesn't bite your head off when you ask a question?

Okay, then don't suck it up. But atleast tell them you have problems with them. This is a good place to vent but what's the point if noone says or does anything. Attitudes can be changed. It's called positive criticism. If "you" (which doubt that is actually the case) pay their salaries, then just like you would with someone working for you say something to them if the attitude is that bad. And as far as the lights and facility stuff why blame IMS administration - blame Drexel facilities.

My point is some things can be helped, some can't. And how much of it is really necessary. I mean really I didn't pay 20 grand for someone to be nice to me. I paid 20 grand to get to where I am today.

So don't suck it up, but don't complain and do or say nothing!
 
Shedoc2007 said:
Okay, then don't suck it up. But atleast tell them you have problems with them. This is a good place to vent but what's the point if noone says or does anything. Attitudes can be changed. It's called positive criticism. If "you" (which doubt that is actually the case) pay their salaries, then just like you would with someone working for you say something to them if the attitude is that bad. And as far as the lights and facility stuff why blame IMS administration - blame Drexel facilities.

My point is some things can be helped, some can't. And how much of it is really necessary. I mean really I didn't pay 20 grand for someone to be nice to me. I paid 20 grand to get to where I am today.

So don't suck it up, but don't complain and do or say nothing!

Well let's think about this one. You go along running a program and believe you're doing a pretty good job. Then someone comes up to you and says that you treat others in a condescending manner that many find to be annoying. Would you smile at this person and thank them for telling you this? Or perhaps you would be slightly miffed that someone would even suggest you are less than friendly all around? Considering that the students in the program need the administrators on their side to ensure all the paperwork gets to the schools and good things are said to adcoms it isn't hard to guess why no one has said anything directly to them.

And yes the tuition is paying their salaries. There are few extra costs incurred in running this program. IMS take the same classes as Drexel Med so no need to pay more teaching salaries. Building: already there. The money certainly is not going towards maintenance. Maybe some cleaning and upkeep. Utilities? I don't think an extra 80 or so students affect it much. So let's see: 80 students at 20K /student = $1.6 million. Where does that money go other than provide the salary of the administrative staff?

I don't see why the students who enjoyed the program and/or had no issues with the administration feel that the rest of us cannot vent our frustrations. Just because a student is successful in getting into medical school after this program doesn't mean they are forever in debt to the program and must always be positive when speaking of their drexel experience. Those currently in the program are "sucking it up" as it was so nicely described. This is just a way to better prepare students who are planning on attending the program so they know that constantly studying and worrying about admissions to med schools are not the only stress factors they will endure while in the program.
 
It kind of seems the other way around, dude... like you guys who didn't like the program are saying that we who enjoyed it can't express our opinions.

If I don't get the linkage out of the post-bacc, I'm totally applying to MSP or IMS.
 
pem8erly said:
Well let's think about this one. You go along running a program and believe you're doing a pretty good job. Then someone comes up to you and says that you treat others in a condescending manner that many find to be annoying. Would you smile at this person and thank them for telling you this? Or perhaps you would be slightly miffed that someone would even suggest you are less than friendly all around? Considering that the students in the program need the administrators on their side to ensure all the paperwork gets to the schools and good things are said to adcoms it isn't hard to guess why no one has said anything directly to them.

And yes the tuition is paying their salaries. There are few extra costs incurred in running this program. IMS take the same classes as Drexel Med so no need to pay more teaching salaries. Building: already there. The money certainly is not going towards maintenance. Maybe some cleaning and upkeep. Utilities? I don't think an extra 80 or so students affect it much. So let's see: 80 students at 20K /student = $1.6 million. Where does that money go other than provide the salary of the administrative staff?

I don't see why the students who enjoyed the program and/or had no issues with the administration feel that the rest of us cannot vent our frustrations. Just because a student is successful in getting into medical school after this program doesn't mean they are forever in debt to the program and must always be positive when speaking of their drexel experience. Those currently in the program are "sucking it up" as it was so nicely described. This is just a way to better prepare students who are planning on attending the program so they know that constantly studying and worrying about admissions to med schools are not the only stress factors they will endure while in the program.

First off, i am not getting mad, or stressed or anything like that. I believe that everyone should express their opinions. Mine just happens to be the opposite of yours. You are expressing your dislikes and I am expressing my views as well. Noone's jumping all over the people that aren't so happy.

All I am saying is that people complain, yell, and complain. And some complaints are time worthy and appropriate and some are not. But if you feel like you didn't get your 20 grand worth then say something or do something. Me, I got my 20 grand out of it. I got accepted to 6 allopathic schools and 4 DO schools. But if you are a current student and any one of them is not "living up to your expectations (real valid expectations)" then say or do something. Treat others as you wanna be treated. As for the administration interfering with processes, admissions, etc. that's a bit absurd. What do they gain by screwing students? Don't get that one.

And you can always start a suggestion box or something similar. And if enough people say something then maybe something will be done. In other words they need you just as much as you need them. Saying nothing makes nothing happen.

I am sorry if anyone is offended because I said suck it up. But what else can you do if you are willing to do nothing.

😀
 
stealthbomber said:
I think that you took the liberty to make several assumptions on this one! First, the reason that I am posting on this site is to inform future applicants to this program about the realities of the program. Second, these issues have already been addressed, in some form or another, to the admin with no resolve- hence my warning to future students. Third, how dare you accuse me of not actually paying my own tuition. I have been out of school for several years and working to save money to prepare for my future. The only person repaying my school loans is me! Don't assume that everyone in school is in the same financial position that you may be in. Because I actually know what it is like to work hard for the money that I spend on my education is the driving reason for me not being satisfied with my "purchase." Like I had said previously, I got what I needed to out of the program for my future and am just unhappy with the way that the IMS/MMS program is presented/sold to future students. Did I mention that I wanted to do MSP but was told by admin that IMS was better for me and my MCAT was not a problem. Oh yeah, my scores were old and needed to be re-taken. Don't you think that is something that administration, who's salary I am paying (like it or not shedoc2007) should be aware of. When you go to a program like this that touts its expertise on med school application process, you would like to assume that they are actually capable of giving credible advice. Is that too much to ask, I don't think so.

Ok. Last post. First I didn't take any liberties. When I said that I doubt "you" pay their salaries - I never even thought of you not paying your tuition. You lost me there. Secondly I am just offering a different perspective. You are trying to inform future applicants that the admins don't know squat. Well, I think that they should hear your case and my case. They should hear someone did really well and they should hear someone didn't really like the experience. I am also telling current students don't be silent if they feel they are being wronged. Third, if the program is that bad for you and you are this pissed off, you should really get some help - meaning if you feel like the program has wronged you in some way than contact someone. How long have you been in the program if there has been "no resolve"? Bring it up to someone else! But don't just let everyone think that all's okay with you. So, you should calm down. Differences of opinion are good. I am not trying to snow you.

Future applicants, judge for yourself. Research, ask questions, be heard. Good luck!
🙂
 
Shedoc is absolutely right.

IMS is a means to an end. Before IMS, all I had were waitlists for 2 years in a row. After IMS, I had a choice for US allopathic schools. Doing research at an Ivy institution (along with publications and presentations) didn't help, and neither did retaking the MCAT.

I sucked it up. It got me into medical school.

As I write this, I am currently using a classroom that is a part of the IMS campus (as well as undergraduate students, nursing, PA, PT, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year med students, and interns and residents). Somehow they also have to deal with the dim lights and the small desks....
 
glad to see that that program sucks. let me tell you about my side of story.

i used to live in philadelphia. so one day, i just went to the office, and showed the woman in charge, my gpa, etc, etc. she said, that your profile looks ok, why don't you just apply. So i did. then they rejected me. well, if they didn't want me at the very beginning, why did she ask me to apply. a total waste of my time, money and energy! 😡
 
youngstud said:
glad to see that that program sucks. let me tell you about my side of story.

i used to live in philadelphia. so one day, i just went to the office, and showed the woman in charge, my gpa, etc, etc. she said, that your profile looks ok, why don't you just apply. So i did. then they rejected me. well, if they didn't want me at the very beginning, why did she ask me to apply. a total waste of my time, money and energy! 😡


Perhaps there were better applicants?
 
As a second year (MMS) student at Drexel, I would like to quickly defend the IMS program. First, the program does work. It is in no way a free ticket into medical school, but if you come, work hard, and perform well then you will succeed, simple as that. And as far as some of these specific gripes go (schedule problems, test taking conditions, etc.), I think it's important to bear in mind that your goal, presumably, is to become a physician, not radioshack employee of the month. In your dreams, the route to the MD suffix is a clean one. If minor challenges to overcome (such as having to use a microphone to ask the professor questions) are getting you stressed, I think it is important to consider how you will respond to having yourself wrist deep in an impacted colon teasing Mr. Hankey out of his home, then turning around to have a stressed attending challenge your intelligence and heart in front of patients and peers. Will you come on studentdoctor.net and complain about your crappy situation? There will always be and always have been minor obstacles to overcome. It seems silly to fantasize that other postbac programs are hiccup free.
My point is, IMS works. I have seen it work. If you come with focus and devotion to your studies, you can go from having a sub 3.0 gpa undergrad to getting accepted to legit MD the next year (and you can actually have a little fun in the meantime). I've seen it happen.
 
Hyman said:
If minor challenges to overcome (such as having to use a microphone to ask the professor questions)
And the mic can be a ton of fun actually...CapILLaries, Veens? Veins? "You there...This is GOD..."
 
It may be odd that I am posting a reply to this forum considering I have no affiliation with neither Drexel's med school or post bac program. I am actually a second year medical student at another medical school in the area & my interest in this forum was sparked by the fact that I am involved with admissions at my school & like to read up on the post bac programs to be more informed.

Since these forums are here to inform individuals about the benefits of taking such a program as a means to an end as so many have put it, I would like to describe the means (the post bac) through the eyes of the end (an actual med school admission department). MCAT scores are exceedingly important. Many schools will not even offer an interview if you did not at least achieve an 8 in each section. Thus, a student with a 27 will definitely want to retake the MCAT if they want to matriculate. If you can put all of your energies into getting an MCAT score in the 30s, you have definitely increased your profile substantially. So, make sure your MCATs are there before you focus everything on taking too many post bac courses. That program that prepares you for the MCATs seems like the best option if you need to improve those scores.

Secondly, I have found that research experience in conjunction with an appropriate MCAT score will often times be as beneficial as a post bac program (especially one where you aren't given a high chance of matriculating into their med school). Many of my fellow classmates spent two or three years after undergrad doing research, being published, and getting paid for it. So, if that is an option available to you, that is also another route one could take.

Of course post bac programs are an excellent way to boost your profile as a student. My class has many students from post bac programs at Delaware, Bryn Mawr, UPenn, Michigan, BU.... But med school is really expensive; so if you are going to be spending money on an additional year or two I would just say to make sure you are satisfied with what you get because there are many options available to help you get into a medical school. In addition to the many post bac programs, MCAT scores, and research, students in my class have gotten advanced degrees, been nurses, or worked as chemists, engineers, or pharmaceutical reps during their time off. Just like undergrad, med schools want to see diversity as well as the grades.

As far as my personal opinion of this forum, I have yet to read about any positives about the program. Those of you who disagreed with the initial posting only attacked those who found fault with the program. If you only needed to get your transcripts from the administration, you are a very resourceful person. I personally relied on my undergrad administration to at least send out my letters of recommendation, instruct me which courses would be truly beneficial, & give me feedback as to my strengths as an applicant. But if you can do all of that on your own that's good for you. Of course, that still displays that the administration does not do it's job which is to run these, and only these (?), programs.

And again I will stress that this one program is not your only option. I never heard Sarg or Captainzero or pem8erly or stealthbomber or teamNoBean or Luckystrike say that post bac programs are a bad idea if you weren't able to get into med school straight out of undergrad. These individuals only stated their opinions about this particular program and this particular administration. If those of you feel that you couldn't have gotten where you are had you gone to another post bac, then you have a right to contradict & highlight how Drexel helped you.

Finally, if you look at school as a means to an end, by the time you reach that end (being a physician) you would have already spent a third of your life. Liking where Iyou are makes experience worthwhile and allows one to focus only on work & none of the other crap. It's an exhausting process; you should at least feel content with the time you spend everywhere.

PS. I hope you learn a little more compassion before becoming a physician b/c I don't want my doctor saying, "Well if you just worked harder at keeping healthy you wouldnt be sick" or saying "Eh, suck it up."
 
AlwaysRight said:
PS. I hope you learn a little more compassion before becoming a physician b/c I don't want my doctor saying, "Well if you just worked harder at keeping healthy you wouldnt be sick" or saying "Eh, suck it up."

Dude, I think your post is right-on, except this little bit. The complaints about the program in this thread are like the equivalent of your patients saying, "I don't like the magazines in your waiting room, your secretaries are rude and incompetent, and I couldn't find your office building." 👍

.
 
UnskinnyBop said:
Dude, I think your post is right-on, except this little bit. The complaints about the program in this thread are like the equivalent of your patients saying, "I don't like the magazines in your waiting room, your secretaries are rude and incompetent, and I couldn't find your office building." 👍


Then again, UnskinnyBop, since you NEVER took our program, you are hardly qualified to comment. Please stick with what you know and stop trying to debunk the value of posts like this one.
 
"Sarge", I read your complaints, man... they're pretty whiny minor complaints that really won't impact your ability to get into medical school (if you've done well...).

Again, I have the same administration, same classrooms, some of the same professors (as the MSP, not IMS), and same scheduling stuff as you do. No, I can't speak to your issues with the simulcasting, but the rest applies to me as well. 👍
 
AlwaysRight

Can you clarify something. You stated most/all medschools would not offer interviews for people that have anything less than 8's in each section making the total score a 24. Did you mean 9's? You suggested re-taking the MCAT's with scores of 27 or less, was this accurate? Is that much weight put into MCATS as opposed to grades and experience. I would say yes as this will deflate a schools ranking significantly if they're letting people in with 26's, 27, 28 or even 29's is this accurate? One last thing it is unwise to judge a program solely by the opinions of a few on a message board. If I can tell you anything it is that those in the Drexel-IMS program are taking 70% of the med-school courses and some of those people have the added pressure of re-taking their MCAT (because by your accounts the 27+ they had to score to get into the program in the first place probably isn't good enough for a traditional MD program). These people are working nearly as hard as you did your first year and must maintain grades comparable to honors (against Drexel-MD students) to have a good chance of success of getting into an MD program the following year. Of all the complaints the one thing you didn't hear was that the teaching was sub-par, Why? Because they are taking classes taught by the med-school faculty with drexel medical students and in sub optimal conditions to boot. Those IMS students that are successful should be seriously considered as good candidates when they come across your board.
 
stealthbomber said:
Right, those complaints probably will not impact your ability to get into medical school. However, there are many post bac programs out there that can provide a similar result. .

I think this is the most often said statement. However, nobody and I mean nobody has given the names of other post-bac programs that can provide, "similar results." I know of Drexel, Georgetown, and one other I believe in Chicago where you take medical school classes (70% or greater) concurrently with medical students either at or nearby the medical school. For those that have had all prerequisites and need to prove that they can handle first year medical school classes to admin committees there are less than a handfull. So if anyone can show me where else to go the competition is stiff and most people don't have a chance in hell other than completing an MS, MPH or PHD to prove otherwise. For most people this is really a last chance effort and the other option is carribean for the vain or D.O. school. If i am wrong please let me know.
 
There's a million postbac programs out there for students who have completed their prereqs and are trying to get into a US allopathic med school. It just so happens that Georgetown, BU, Drexel, and RFU seem to be the better known ones and the ones that allow you to take the majority of your classes with the med students. But there are more than a handful that will allow you to take US allopathic medical classes even though they aren't well known--some even allow you to take the majority of your classes w/ med students.

Some admissions committees seem to pay attention to specific programs. For example, there's a program at Colorado State that's helpful for students trying to get into Colorado--even though it doesn't actually have medical school classes. There's also the UMDNJ program that's helpful for getting into the UMDNJ schools (usually you take a few courses with the med students, but not the majority and it's still effective) and the Louisville Physio/Biophysics program that's helpful for getting into Louisville (an option that Kentucky residents should at least consider). Through UPenn's program you can even be considered for a formal linkage with UMDNJ-RWJ--no glide year. Indiana has its own masters program that's effective for getting into IU med (and other schools) even though it doesn't have actual medical school classes. VCU has a premed certificate/masters that seems to be very effective for allopathic hopefuls as well--again, no medical classes. Even Hawaii has two of its own postbac/preprofessional masters programs. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's A LOT out there. Do a little research on the programs, contact the postbac/masters program directors if you have questions (for the smaller programs you might have a hard time finding someone on SDN who has been through the program, so get the information from the source), and most of all contact the admissions directors of the medical schools you're interested in to see what they suggest. You don't necessarily have to do an obnoxiously expensive special masters to get into a US allopathic school (even though that is probably the best route if you can afford it).

I just think that's it's unfair to just say that the OP just couldn't hack it. I don't think anyone has said that the Drexel program is useless, they're merely stating that there are aspects that leave a lot to be desired. There are things that they know now that they would have liked to know going in. What's so bad about telling people your own experience as long as you try to be objective?

Take a look at the UMDNJ thread--the OP kicked ass in it even though he didn't like aspects of the program. And he's been accepted to UMDNJ-Newark and may get into more in the future. The program was obviously helpful in gaining admission to medical school, but that doesn't mean that he can't say that there were aspects that he didn't enjoy. What's wrong with telling people what they're getting themselves into? He did the program, didn't enjoy aspects of it (like CaptainZero w/ the Drexel IMS), but he worked his ass off and got accepted. Some of you are arguing that if CaptainZero didn't do IMS, then he wouldn't be accepted. Nonsense. Maybe if he didn't do a postbac of some sort he wouldn't be accepted, but to say he HAD TO do DREXEL (as opposed to the millions of other postbac programs that exist) is an entirely fallacious argument.

It's not like the OP of this thread is saying, "Drexel IMS will never get you into medical school!!!" He just tried to give an objective assessment of his experiences. If any of you have dissenting opinions and had different, positive experiences with the program, then discuss those experiences. That's something people considering the IMS will want to see and a few of you were helpful enough to do so. But others resorted to ad hominem arguments and potentially faulty assumptions. The attacks and unfounded assumptions don't help anyone considering Drexel IMS.

P.S. People do not just go the Caribbean route out of vanity. There are many reasons that people would choose this route other than the title of the degree.
 
Its amazing the discussion that Drexel's post-bac program has created. Well I am a graduate of the MSP Program. I dont know about any other post-bacc programs, so I cant say that this program is better or worse than other ones. Take my post for what it is, the opinion and view of a graduate of the program who is now accepted to med school.

The MSP Program is way better than the IMS Program. For those of you applying, do everything you can to get into this program. The focus of the program is to improve your MCAT, and it works. I improved my score enough to help me get into med school. The first year is easy, and will help improve your undergrad and grad GPA. It is hard to make an improvement if you go to the IMS Program, because the med school workload you get is difficult. Yes, MSPers take the IMS workload the second year of their program, but they should have strong 1st year grades to work from.

Like other people said, I didnt think the administration was that much of a problem. I think they really do care about getting their students into med school. I was always nice to them, and they were always nice to me. Then again, I didnt really care so much for them, and I didnt have much contact with them. I just went to classes (sometimes, the other half I watched them online. The quality of the feeds online were fine about 90% of the time I felt, which was fine for me), studied my butt off, took my tests, and went home. There were schedule changes and room changes, but that didnt really bother me. Im pretty flexible, and where ever they told me to go, I went, it wasnt a big deal to me as long as I knew the material for the test, it was all good.

I partied a great deal in college and knew that I couldn't complain so much where I was at the time. Just to have the opportunity to be in the program that can actually get me into a med school was enough motivation for me, as well as a factor that kept me from complaining too much about little things that, in the grand scheme of things, dont matter much and dont really affect your chances of getting into med school. I totally "sucked it up". Graduating from college, I thought there was little, if any, chance for me to get into med school, but I owe it all to this program for getting me in. After college, I set my priorities straight. Like people have said, this program is what you make of it. You can either just go about your studying and roll with the punches, or you can be bitter and complain about all the bad things with the program, and maybe not study as much as you should. Im not saying that to anyone here, but that's how I felt about the people in my class that disliked the program and complained about it all the time to me or my other friends.

Everyone in the program is doing it because they are willing to do whatever it takes to get in. Yes, it is not perfect by a longshot, the Drexel med students get better treatment and facilities, but that is to be expected, they deserve it. Not that people in the program dont deserve to be well treated, but you cant expect to be treated as well as the med students. Dont forget the big picture, in the end, the program can get you into med school, which is ultimately what you want, right? You can deal with all those little things that go wrong if you knew you had a serious chance to get in.

The facilities are not the greatest thing ever, and not nearly as nice as the med student facilities, but they were fine, and adequate for our purposes. Im real picky with lighting when Im studying, and yes, now that I think back, sometimes the lighting in the rooms weren't the best. You had to move around a bit to find a seat with good lighting. But I actually didnt think much about it when it was test time, and it didnt bother me. I did fine on most tests, and if I didnt do as well I as would have liked, it wasnt because of the lighting. It was because I didnt study enough.

The MSP class is smaller than the IMS class, so I was friends with most people in my class, and to be honest with you, about half of us got into MD schools, and the other half DO schools. This depended on their performance in the program and/or preference for MD or DO.

I cant stress enough that this program is what you make of it. People can complain all they want, and for good reason, because there are a lot of things to complain about with this program. But dont get the wrong idea. You are applying to a post-bacc because you are willing to do something that has worked for other people. Bottom line: Drexel's programs work for people. Im talking about MSP and IMS (sorry dont know much about DPMS but I think there is actually a guaranteed med school seat if you do well enough) It worked for my friends, and it worked for me. Its not slave labor for 2 years, and yet its not a glorious program that tends to your every want and need. Just remember why you're doing it, and remember that it works. Bumps in the road will happen to you in life, same goes for this program and I am sure almost any other program, but will those small bumps knock you off your course? How much do you want it? I hope this post was helpful, good luck everyone! (For the record, I was accepted to an MD program.)
 
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