Duke vs. UW vs. UCSF/Berkeley JMP

[gentlebalogna]

Tell me what you think!

Duke: COA $235k

+ Exciting curriculum with a dedicated 3rd year for research. They fully support my interest in medical anthropology.

+ Really cool environment of being surrounded by great scholars at Duke University

+ Reasonably small class size (120)

+ Duke Hospital is a world-class medical facility, feels tightly integrated with the med school

+ Beautiful facilities, simulation center and anatomy facility

+ I'm in a smaller Primary Care subtrack with good camaraderie and support - maybe less competitive vibes

+ Primary Care track features a longitudinal integrated clerkship during year 2

+ Duke students earn amazing Step scores

+ Durham is an affordable, fun town with great weather

+ I really liked all the people I met, especially the Primary Care mentors

- Pre-clinical is condensed down to just 1 year. That sounds like PA school and my PA friends tell me that sucked.

- I've heard from a Duke student that they might be less prepared clinically for residency, but N=1

- Have to move across the country and idk what'll happen with my girlfriend. Sounds hard though.

- Possibly a very competitive atmosphere given Duke's prestige.... plus I'm a small town, west-coast kid and don't know how to be *elite*

- Duke is less known for its primary care education

- 3rd year research is cool, but I'd probably want an additional research degree anyway and could fund that with a fellowship during residency


UW: COA $180-220k depending on scholarships

+ It's in my hometown. I have a SO here who could not move with me to Duke due to her small business.

+ UW is arguably the nation's leading primary care school and has a higher reputation score than Duke among residency PD's on that unreliable little survey that gets published every year

+ I'm in their rural underserved primary care track (TRUST), which I think will have incredible clinical education

+ TRUST includes a longitudinal integrated clerkship, so you get to know a rural town early and keep going back (and live there for 22 weeks for clerkship)

+ Really small class size (60 people in my regional site), and I have some friends in the class

+ UW has been supportive of my research interests but would probably be more public health-focused than med anthropology. I'm OK with that.

+ I already know a lot of community organizations who I can partner with for my research interests, vs starting from scratch in Durham

+ 18 month preclinical seems like a nice balance between Duke's 1 year or a traditional 2 year

+ TONS of clinical exposure early on

+ Great Step 2 scores assuming residencies start looking at those

- Can't pursue my interest in medical anthropology like I could at Duke

- No simulation center, shared anatomy facilities w/ Washington State med school

- WWAMI rotations in year 3 and 4 could feel isolating... but also could be exciting with the right mindset

- Might feel less well-integrated in Spokane, compared to Duke where everything is in 2-3 buildings and you can walk 5 minutes between them

Berkeley/UCSF JMP: COA $330k

+ UCSF MD degree. Holy cow!

+ MS from Berkeley, could focus on exactly what I want

+ I love medical anthropology, and Berkeley's med anthropology is one of the best in the world

+ learn anatomy at UCSF (rather than Berkeley)

+ Bay Area would be a really fun experience for 5 years

+ Not as far from my SO as Duke is

- Incredibly expensive at around $320k

- Takes 5 years.

- I think I'd get tired of the problem-based curriculum, even if it is a good way to learn

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[strappysandals]

Overall, it sounds like its going to come down to your relationship with your SO.

If I were you, I'd probably pick UW. The major difference really only seems to be in your research interest: more public health at UW, more anthro at Duke.

Here are your UW cons:
- Can't pursue my interest in medical anthropology like I could at Duke. Seems strange there is absolutely NO med anthropology at UW? You also mentione you already have research connections at UW versus starting from scratch at Duke

- No simulation center, shared anatomy facilities w/ Washington State med school. Is this really that bad of a thing? Med students dont spend much time in sim centers - they are mostly for residents.

- WWAMI rotations in year 3 and 4 could feel isolating... but also could be exciting with the right mindset These rotations sound awesome, especially since you are into rural medicine!

- Might feel less well-integrated in Spokane, compared to Duke where everything is in 2-3 buildings and you can walk 5 minutes between them. Do you want to feel more like an adult or go back to feeling like a student spending 100% of their time on a "campus." Neither is a bad thing, just curious.

 

[Grapesurgery]

I get the impression that you’re somewhat settling (career-wise) for UW, your heart seems to be more at Duke. Personally, I would choose Duke as well. The situation with your SO is difficult. Doable, perhaps, but difficult. Take time to think on how serious the relationship is.
I do not know how important finances are to you, but the cost of UCSF v. another solid option (AKA Duke and UW for almost half) rules it out.

I have to admit, an interest in med anthropology is unique. However, would you be integrating this in your career? If not, you can always pursue it as a hobby. If you do not aim to make it part of our career I do not think it is worth prioritizing a med school over.

 

[gentlebalogna]

Overall, it sounds like its going to come down to your relationship with your SO.

If I were you, I'd probably pick UW. The major difference really only seems to be in your research interest: more public health at UW, more anthro at Duke.

Here are your UW cons:
- Can't pursue my interest in medical anthropology like I could at Duke. Seems strange there is absolutely NO med anthropology at UW? You also mentione you already have research connections at UW versus starting from scratch at Duke

- No simulation center, shared anatomy facilities w/ Washington State med school. Is this really that bad of a thing? Med students dont spend much time in sim centers - they are mostly for residents.

- WWAMI rotations in year 3 and 4 could feel isolating... but also could be exciting with the right mindset These rotations sound awesome, especially since you are into rural medicine!

- Might feel less well-integrated in Spokane, compared to Duke where everything is in 2-3 buildings and you can walk 5 minutes between them. Do you want to feel more like an adult or go back to feeling like a student spending 100% of their time on a "campus." Neither is a bad thing, just curious.

Hey strappysandals - nice chacos

I appreciate your reply. Thanks for the counterpoints that you offered to some of those cons. You're correct that there is some med anthro at UW, but I've been surprised at how underdeveloped it seems. Of the three, the Berkeley/UCSF is strongest for anthro particularly.... but probably not worth it $100,000. Ha.

Your point about feeling like a college student again is interesting, too. I've been out of school for four years and I really hadn't thought about that. I do think I sort of idealize Duke's gorgeous campus and how nice it would be to study there. I need to reflect a little more on how I'm letting the fancy buildings influence me.

Your advice also mirrors what the director of the Duke Cancer Center told me - "I can't think of why you'd move across the country and spend more money to go to Duke when UW is in your home town." That was reassuring. Thanks for the good advice.

 

[gentlebalogna]

I get the impression that you’re somewhat settling (career-wise) for UW, your heart seems to be more at Duke. Personally, I would choose Duke as well. The situation with your SO is difficult. Doable, perhaps, but difficult. Take time to think on how serious the relationship is.
I do not know how important finances are to you, but the cost of UCSF v. another solid option (AKA Duke and UW for almost half) rules it out.

I have to admit, an interest in med anthropology is unique. However, would you be integrating this in your career? If not, you can always pursue it as a hobby. If you do not aim to make it part of our career I do not think it is worth prioritizing a med school over.

Hey thank you for your thoughts. Honestly, you're right, my heart is probably more at Duke. However, whenever I actually start thinking about it, UW wins out. Similar quality of education (with admittedly different emphases) for less money and I get to stay around my girlfriend, friends, and the beautiful Pacific Northwest. Also, I am from a tiny town and went to a tiny undergrad, and I think I'd feel consistently outclassed at Duke. I think I might feel a bit like an alien at Duke, as I've yet to talk to someone there who's from a similarly humble background to mine.

I think the hard part is that it feels like I worked so hard and that Duke (with its tiny acceptance rate) is giving me something of a golden ticket here to really access the upper echelons of medicine and academics. But, truly, I don't think their golden ticket is any shinier than UW's. It seems like a perception issue on my part.

 

[mzlipton]

UW is an amazing institution, the financials win compared to your other options, and you'll have a support system there. It seems like a good choice to me!

 

[relax1234]

Are your COA estimates inclusive of any aid/scholarships you are anticipating receiving? I would not recommend going anywhere where you’re going to be taking out $330k in loans. That’s bonkers. You can buy yourself a house with the money you’d save going to UW! Also, I think the longitudinal clerkship at UW would offer a pretty unique training experience IMHO, and that’s not to be underestimated. Though sounds like Duke has been stepping up their primary care focus recently and also has some longitudinal opportunities

 

[gentlebalogna]

Are your COA estimates inclusive of any aid/scholarships you are anticipating receiving? I would not recommend going anywhere where you’re going to be taking out $330k in loans. That’s bonkers. You can buy yourself a house with the money you’d save going to UW! Also, I think the longitudinal clerkship at UW would offer a pretty unique training experience IMHO, and that’s not to be underestimated. Though sounds like Duke has been stepping up their primary care focus recently and also has some longitudinal opportunities

Right now the UCSF one isn't inclusive of scholarships. Just loans. They haven't released their financial aid package to me yet. But either way I think it'll wind up being the most expensive option.

At this point, I think it's going to be the UW