Dumb but Serious Question. Is the MCAT really that hard?

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mafunk

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When people that I'm volunteering with learn that I'm a PreMed they almost always say... have you taken the MCAT yet? Usually this is said in such a way as to indicate that the MCAT is horribly hard and that I'm dreaming if I think I can cut the mustard.

My question is. Is the MCAT really that hard? If so, what do you find about it to be difficult?

I have also heard that most of the material on the MCAT is not that complex. Rather it is basic chem/orgo/physics and the real trick is

  • Strong test taking skills, with history of performing well on standardized tests
  • Good knowledge of the basics mentioned above. I read that they usually provide you with formulas and not lots of memorization is needed. I heard that what is more needed is the ability to think analytically and apply your knowledge.
Would you agree with this assessment?

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From what I've seen, it's either incredibly difficult or not so bad at all. If you passed your intro classes and then forgot them, or if you passed without ever really understanding them, you're going to have a devil of a time with this. If you really understood the material and the relationships between all the concepts it comes back pretty quickly, in my opinion.

As far as it being like standardized tests, as I understand it that's halfway correct. To do really well, you need both an emic and an etic understanding of the material. But for the majority of people that score really well on verbal sections of standardized testing, their scores were the result of a gradual accumulation of knowledge and level of comfort with the language. A lot of the test is just seeing if you can easily pick out what "sounds right" and "sounds wrong" in science passages the way you can when people use poor grammar and not get caught up in trying to apply specific rules you've memorized.

Of course, you also need to be able to pick out exactly what about it is wrong, and that often takes some specific knowledge, but based on what people around me have said, you can do well in one of two ways- either you can be really comfortable with the material and only require a few days of brushing up, or you can labor for months and do millions of tests and passages until you get where you want.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying that being good at standardized testing in general means that you will automatically be good at the MCAT. But once you've learned and studied and mastered enough of the material, taking the MCAT feels much more like taking the GRE or the ACT than it feels like taking a typical science exam or final, at least from my perspective.
 
The MCAT only tests the basics, but it's difficult because the questions are tricky.
It doesn't predict your success in med school at all. Not at all, because it tests your test-taking skills more than knowledge.
 
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The MCAT is not hard, although it's not easy. I simply don't understand people who get good grades (>3.6 GPA) but are unable to get a good score on the MCAT (>30). I believe that the material you need to know for the MCAT is less than the sum of the material needed for finals for a typical semester. Maybe this is because I am a science major at a difficult college, but I like to believe that at any college, getting As are at least somewhat difficult.

To be fair, the MCAT does require extensive preparation. It tests critical thinking, both in VR and passage based questions in the sciences. Nevertheless, if your resume was already good enough for serious consideration for med school (high grades, good extracurriculars), then I hope that you possess some critical thinking skills. I have little sympathy for someone, regardless of their grades, is incapable of the required level of critical thinking to succeed on the MCAT. Unless you are not a native English speaker, or just simply ignorant of the preparation needed for the MCAT, you should be able to get a good score. Anyone who does not either lacks work ethic, or intelligence (to be blunt), or combination of both, and should not be a doctor. Also, go UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS!!
 
The MCAT is not hard, although it's not easy. I simply don't understand people who get good grades (>3.6 GPA) but are unable to get a good score on the MCAT (>30). I believe that the material you need to know for the MCAT is less than the sum of the material needed for finals for a typical semester. Maybe this is because I am a science major at a difficult college, but I like to believe that at any college, getting As are at least somewhat difficult.

To be fair, the MCAT does require extensive preparation. It tests critical thinking, both in VR and passage based questions in the sciences. Nevertheless, if your resume was already good enough for serious consideration for med school (high grades, good extracurriculars), then I hope that you possess some critical thinking skills. I have little sympathy for someone, regardless of their grades, is incapable of the required level of critical thinking to succeed on the MCAT. Unless you are not a native English speaker, or just simply ignorant of the preparation needed for the MCAT, you should be able to get a good score. Anyone who does not either lacks work ethic, or intelligence (to be blunt), or combination of both, and should not be a doctor. Also, go UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS!!

somehow, I don't believe that. I pretty sure that that it's pretty easy to A's at quite a few colleges out there. for science class, especially ones that grade on a curve, all you have to do is either work harder or be smarter than the average. Unfortunately for me, my best effort barely beats the average.

There is more to the undergrad experience than just grades though. By taking the easy route, you miss out on some of the learning and self development. For people at my school, getting their below 50%'s on midterms when they've never had lower than an A-'s serves as a makeup call to fix their studying habits. I haven't taken the mcat yet, but I'm pretty sure my finals week is more stressful.
 
You shouldn't be able to get an A by just being better than the average. The average is like a C+/B-. You can get a B or B+ by being better than the average, but in my opinion, you should be near the top of the class to get an A.
 
Yeah, I've mostly managed B's/B+'s. I'm not even close to the top of the class. However, that's because I picked the most challenging school that I got into. It was worth it though. This is like taking the harder physics class that you mentioned in your other post. Now, I just have to make sure it doesn't screw up my chances of getting into med school.
 
Yeah, I've mostly managed B's/B+'s. I'm not even close to the top of the class. However, that's because I picked the most challenging school that I got into. It was worth it though. This is like taking the harder physics class that you mentioned in your other post. Now, I just have to make sure it doesn't screw up my chances of getting into med school.

I always hear people say they chose a harder school for undergrad, that's great if you're getting As at that school but if not it's a bad plan.

it's funny because I actually didn't go to my first choice school after I found out their grading system (a,a-,b+,b,b- instead of a,b,c) this doesn't sound like a big deal to most people but knowing that 90+ is an A(4.0) at the school I go to, instead of 90-94 being A-(3.6) and 95+ being A(4.0) is a good feeling. 4.0 looks better from a state school, that a 3.0 from a top 20 school 🙂
 
That probably would have been the wiser choice. However, I don't know how I would have adapted in a different environment. At least now, I'm completely sure on what I want to do. That beats being safe gpa-wise in my book. With my gpa, I probably won't get into a top med school. that's ok though, since a lower tier one won't prevent be from being a doctor.
 
When people that I'm volunteering with learn that I'm a PreMed they almost always say... have you taken the MCAT yet? Usually this is said in such a way as to indicate that the MCAT is horribly hard and that I'm dreaming if I think I can cut the mustard.

My question is. Is the MCAT really that hard? If so, what do you find about it to be difficult?

I have also heard that most of the material on the MCAT is not that complex. Rather it is basic chem/orgo/physics and the real trick is

  • Strong test taking skills, with history of performing well on standardized tests
  • Good knowledge of the basics mentioned above. I read that they usually provide you with formulas and not lots of memorization is needed. I heard that what is more needed is the ability to think analytically and apply your knowledge.
Would you agree with this assessment?

It's not hard it can just be slightly over whelming. Keep in mind they ask the most basic type of questions from different topics. The only thing is that you have so many things to comprehend than some people get over whelmed.
 
It's not too bad if you can remember a ton of information easily, and be able to spontaneously recall any of those topics and do detailed application type questions of those.

The applications range from VERY easy to impossibly difficult, with the latter being rare. Considering that you can drop a few pts in any section and still get a great score, it is just about knowing a ton of info and relationships.
 
The MCAT is not hard, although it's not easy. I simply don't understand people who get good grades (>3.6 GPA) but are unable to get a good score on the MCAT (>30). I believe that the material you need to know for the MCAT is less than the sum of the material needed for finals for a typical semester. Maybe this is because I am a science major at a difficult college, but I like to believe that at any college, getting As are at least somewhat difficult.

To be fair, the MCAT does require extensive preparation. It tests critical thinking, both in VR and passage based questions in the sciences. Nevertheless, if your resume was already good enough for serious consideration for med school (high grades, good extracurriculars), then I hope that you possess some critical thinking skills. I have little sympathy for someone, regardless of their grades, is incapable of the required level of critical thinking to succeed on the MCAT. Unless you are not a native English speaker, or just simply ignorant of the preparation needed for the MCAT, you should be able to get a good score. Anyone who does not either lacks work ethic, or intelligence (to be blunt), or combination of both, and should not be a doctor. Also, go UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS!!

I'm a junior with a 3.9GPA at UW-Madison, and getting a 30 isn't all that easy.
 
I'm a junior with a 3.9GPA at UW-Madison, and getting a 30 isn't all that easy.

No offense to you, but I think that says that your courses didn't force you to understand the material.

I haven't taken the test 'for real' yet, but in my mind anything less than a 10 on the science sections shows that you only had a superficial understanding of the material.

The verbal section is a different ball game, so I'm only going to say 20 in the sciences.
 
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I'm a junior with a 3.9GPA at UW-Madison, and getting a 30 isn't all that easy.

It's not easy, but I never said it was easy. I said it shouldn't be hard for someone with such a high GPA. I bet that getting a 3.9 wasn't easy either. But if you have the work ethic and the intellectual capacity to achieve that, then 30 on the MCAT should be too. In fact, I like to believe that in usual cases, a 30 on the MCAT is easier than a 3.9 undergrad GPA. I base that on the fact that I have taken the MCAT and have taken full course load at colleges.
 
Anyone who does not either lacks work ethic, or intelligence (to be blunt), or combination of both, and should not be a doctor. Also, go UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS!!
FYI, there are many students in various post-bacc programs who come in with <28 MCAT and totally score at the top of the medical class.
 
No offense to you, but I think that says that your courses didn't force you to understand the material.

I haven't taken the test 'for real' yet, but in my mind anything less than a 10 on the science sections shows that you only had a superficial understanding of the material.

The verbal section is a different ball game, so I'm only going to say 20 in the sciences.

I see where you're coming from but that is a pretty overgeneralized statement. There are many reasons someone might be short of a 10 in the sciences. It could be the other way around (like for me) where yes a score a 10+ on practice but my issue is with falling prey to test writer tricks and misreading mistakes. The material is not always the problem. The mcat is about reasoning.
 
I have little sympathy for someone, regardless of their grades, is incapable of the required level of critical thinking to succeed on the MCAT. Anyone who does not either lacks work ethic, or intelligence (to be blunt), or combination of both, and should not be a doctor.

What makes you think that you are capable of judging someone to be qualified to be a doctor or not? You can't just say that people don't do well on MCAT because they "slacked off" whether it was during school or during MCAT.

Also, as for getting "A" in the science courses, I can't speak for all institutions, but if you are smart, take good notes, and talk to people who had those courses, getting A isn't all that difficult. Don't assume that someone getting "A" on prerequisite courses automatically equates a high score...
 
Let me qualify my statements a bit. I do think there are people who get <28 MCAT score who are genuinely both hard working and smart. These MCAT scores, though, do not reflect their potential. Maybe they didn't have the resources that most of us on SDN did. Maybe they settled for less than a great score because the rest of their resume was very good. Maybe they just simply took the MCAT under less than ideal conditions. One medical school professor told me of such a student, whose MCAT was in the low 20s, but was admitted. They actually judged her to be extraordinarily brilliant and hard working(4.0 GPA), but thought that she just lacked the resources to adequately prepare for the MCAT. I also don't think that the MCAT is the perfect measure of one's ability to become a doctor, or a predictor for one's success in medical school or professional life. What I believe, though, is that anyone who is dedicated and capable of becoming a doctor should be capable of scoring >28 (30 may have been harsh) on the MCAT given the resources available to most of us. And to me, the reason why medical schools even use the MCAT to judge applicants is because a standardized test like the MCAT is the best tool they have to judge one's critical thinking ability, without the ambiguities built in GPAs and grades.
 
What makes you think that you are capable of judging someone to be qualified to be a doctor or not? You can't just say that people don't do well on MCAT because they "slacked off" whether it was during school or during MCAT.

Also, as for getting "A" in the science courses, I can't speak for all institutions, but if you are smart, take good notes, and talk to people who had those courses, getting A isn't all that difficult. Don't assume that someone getting "A" on prerequisite courses automatically equates a high score...

I think it's a fair statement to say that if someone is incapable of scoring decently on the MCAT then they shouldn't be a doctor. To be honest, I think that the practice of studying specifically for the MCAT defeats the purpose of the test a bit. They're using it to assess how well you were able to absorb and apply the things you learned in your intro classes to determine how successful you are likely to be both in medical school and as a doctor.

Sure, there are exceptions, people who bomb the MCAT, manage to get in, and end up being really successful. But in general, the test is supposed to weed out those students who study really hard and memorize their way to good grades, and retain those who have developed the scientific acumen and critical thinking skills necessary to be a good doctor when you don't have access to the answers or a teacher.

It sounds harsh, especially since there are a lot of people who just get test anxiety or don't do as well on standardized exams, but if they didn't correlate well to success in school then there wouldn't be nearly as much focus on them. Some people just aren't qualified to be doctors- that's what the test is designed to check for.
 
Some people just aren't qualified to be doctors- that's what the test is designed to check for.
I disagree.
There are high school students who get accepted early into med school and do well in med school.
There are people who did poorly on the MCAT but excellently on Step 1.
MCAT is bull. Seriously. None of those materials is relevant to medical courses.
It's only another hurdle that we have to jump over in the admissions game.
MCAT - aptitude + test taking ability
USMLE - knowledge + test taking ability + endurance
Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=75348
 
I disagree.
There are high school students who get accepted early into med school and do well in med school.
There are people who did poorly on the MCAT but excellently on Step 1.
MCAT is bull. Seriously. None of those materials is relevant to medical courses.
It's only another hurdle that we have to jump over in the admissions game.
MCAT - aptitude + test taking ability
USMLE - knowledge + test taking ability + endurance
Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=75348

You are making two kind of different points here, actually. The first is whether or not some people (excluding obvious candidates like the mentally disabled) are inherently unqualified to be doctors or not. The second is whether the MCAT has any value with respect to that.

On the first, I actually think that the majority of people have the ability to become a doctor (although looking at our political discourse...). I think the bar for admissions should be lowered, and more doctors trained in the US, especially since there is a shortage. I don't think most people are born unqualified because their IQ is too low. But I do think that a significant minority of the adult population is incapable. Just like some kids simply shouldn't go to college, some should not go to medical school.

The materials in the MCAT has little relevance to medicine, but many doctors will tell you that even some of their basic science courses have little relevance to their day to day practice. Why do we even require med school applicants to go through college? No major, even biology or chemistry, is really relevant for medicine. The only prerequisite courses should be some basic chemistry and biology, by that standard. Nevertheless, it has been shown that there is a mildly strong correlation between MCAT scores and STEP I scores. The point is that there is no perfect way to predict one's success as a doctor. But you have to be able to measure it somehow, which is why we use STEP I scores, grades, and such for residency, and why we use the MCAT, GPA, and such for med school admissions. A standardized test like the MCAT which tests critical thinking ability along with scientific reasoning is absolutely necessary, and the fact that success on the MCAT is correlated with success on STEP I is one indication that it is useful.
 
The mcat does not say anything about how good of a physician you will be or how you'll do in med school. Thats like saying that the sat determines how youll do in college.

To imed, misreading makes you do poorly in science classes as well. Most of my upper level science and liberal arts classes involved critical thinking on exams and papers. Bad test taking skills are fixed through practice. Its not like you dont know what the traps might be after doing practice tests. Fool me twice shame on me...

If anything, the reading carefully bit carries over more to being a good physician. If you read allergic to sulfa drugs as not allergic or 10 millimolar as 10 micromolar, well then bad things happen.

And rabolisk, I agree with you re test scores. The test shows that you can handle strapping down for a few months and being dedicated and on task. Standardized tests get lots of hate, but medicine has a lot of them so you might as well get used to it and spend your energy elsewhere.
 
To be honest, I think that the practice of studying specifically for the MCAT defeats the purpose of the test a bit.

Maybe, but everyone studies for MCAT now. I'm sure there are some who barely study and do somewhat well, but in most cases, you study for MCAT, just like people study for GRE and LSAT. This comment is unrealistic nowadays.

But in general, the test is supposed to weed out those students who study really hard and memorize their way to good grades, and retain those who have developed the scientific acumen and critical thinking skills necessary to be a good doctor when you don't have access to the answers or a teacher.

Critical thinking skill is important, and there is no doubt about that. But, weeding out isn't the purpose of MCAT. MCAT was implemented to make sure that those who do make to medical schools can survive and finish to become doctors. This is different from weeding out because medical schools, unlike colleges, are schools where you learn "tools," so from fiscal perspective, medical schools have incentives to choose candidates who they believe can handle the rigor of the medical schools. MCAT is just one of the measures they use since not every school's Bio course is same in rigor, difficulty, etc..

Some people just aren't qualified to be doctors- that's what the test is designed to check for.

Again, you got the idea of MCAT wrong. The qualification of doctors is what the boards are for (Step 1/2). That's where the real placement of doctors and respective specialties come in. MCAT is for seeing whether you can handle the workload of medical school. Medical school does not equal to doctor. That's why people do residency and etc..
 
When people that I'm volunteering with learn that I'm a PreMed they almost always say... have you taken the MCAT yet? Usually this is said in such a way as to indicate that the MCAT is horribly hard and that I'm dreaming if I think I can cut the mustard.

My question is. Is the MCAT really that hard? If so, what do you find about it to be difficult?

I have also heard that most of the material on the MCAT is not that complex. Rather it is basic chem/orgo/physics and the real trick is

  • Strong test taking skills, with history of performing well on standardized tests
  • Good knowledge of the basics mentioned above. I read that they usually provide you with formulas and not lots of memorization is needed. I heard that what is more needed is the ability to think analytically and apply your knowledge.
Would you agree with this assessment?

OP, not at all. Don't worry about it. It's all stuff you learned as a freshmen and a lot of it you learned in high school. Everybody is just trying to scare you (it reduces the competition). It happens every year. It's actually kind of a fun 5 hours, really, but no one wants you to know that.

Also, this comment will self-destruct in T-
output.gif

seconds to prevent any other pre-meds from discovering the secret!
 
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No offense to you, but I think that says that your courses didn't force you to understand the material.

I haven't taken the test 'for real' yet, but in my mind anything less than a 10 on the science sections shows that you only had a superficial understanding of the material.

The verbal section is a different ball game, so I'm only going to say 20 in the sciences.

Its not really the understanding of the material; I understand it as well as my friends who have gotten 38-41, and I have done better in our classes than them--However, it's more a reasoning test while under pressure test, which is something that I'm not used to and have to become accustomed to. Regardless, I've consistently gotten above 10's on the science sections, but Verbal is a different story to which I've been inconsistent and getting 8-11 on. The reason I said it isn't all that easy to get a 30 and above, is because I've still had to put in a heavy amount of hours to achieve practice test scores above a 30, it isn't a walk in the park unless you're absolutely brilliant which you might be, but I'm more of a hard-worker with enough intelligence to get by with whatever I want to do in life.
 
I'm a junior with a 3.9GPA at UW-Madison, and getting a 30 isn't all that easy.

I'm working my ass off for this as well, but I still believe that if you actually understand the material, then you can apply it in unfamiliar circumstances. If you can't then you don't really understand how to conceptualize things as well.

I haven't taken the exam yet, so what I'm saying applies to me as well.
 
OP, not at all. Don't worry about it. It's all stuff you learned as a freshmen and a lot of it you learned in high school. Everybody is just trying to scare you (it reduces the competition). It happens every year. It's actually kind of a fun 5 hours, really, but no one wants you to know that.

Also, this comment will self-destruct in T-
output.gif

seconds to prevent any other pre-meds from discovering the secret!

Liar. It just repeats!
 
I'm working my ass off for this as well, but I still believe that if you actually understand the material, then you can apply it in unfamiliar circumstances. If you can't then you don't really understand how to conceptualize things as well.

I haven't taken the exam yet, so what I'm saying applies to me as well.

Yeah, I agree, you might be smarter than I though hahahahaha 🙂 Nah, I can do it, I just over-think a lot
 
I have a friend who had a very high GPA took the MCAT and got a 23... I am certain there are a variety of factors, but... regardless his GPA and MCAT score certainly aren't in line with each other. I have heard the test IS that hard, guess we'd all know if we had taken lots of practice tests...
 
I disagree.
There are high school students who get accepted early into med school and do well in med school.
There are people who did poorly on the MCAT but excellently on Step 1.
MCAT is bull. Seriously. None of those materials is relevant to medical courses.
It's only another hurdle that we have to jump over in the admissions game.
MCAT - aptitude + test taking ability
USMLE - knowledge + test taking ability + endurance
Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=75348

Totally agree 👍
I know physicians today who are very capable, working without a single suit against them for their long entire careers, and when I showed them examples of MCAT questions they did not understand nor care because it's irrelevant...

On the first, I actually think that the majority of people have the ability to become a doctor (although looking at our political discourse...). I think the bar for admissions should be lowered, and more doctors trained in the US, especially since there is a shortage. I don't think most people are born unqualified because their IQ is too low. But I do think that a significant minority of the adult population is incapable. Just like some kids simply shouldn't go to college, some should not go to medical school.

I agree as well, I guess AMA would never have it because that would lower physician salaries :laugh:

 
make no mistake, the mcat it the toughest grad school exam to clear. you gotta dedicate time and effort (~3-6 months) in order to do well. prob the biggest skill to develop is getting good at reading comprehension. If you can read fast and understand what you have read as well be good with test taking, the knowledge part shouldn't come too hard. Instead of just knowing the material, you need to also know how to apply it! This is definitely a test to take serious! good luck
 
This test is hard for me. I am very hardworking and DO EVERYTHING to understand everything necessary, but unfortunately it requires more than just hard work. Natural intelligence is required to some extent to be successful. I wish I had more of the natural stuff, and memory. Memory mostly since I forget details within 2-3 days no matter how I memorize the information.

This is just me and my opinion based on my experience. Their are individuals who find this test to not be very hard, but for most it is challenging to some extent.
 
I can only speak from myself and I have only taken a variety of AAMC's, but I feel if you are at least a good standardized test taker, well-read, and had actually learned your pre-reqs well (not just did what was needed to get an A and then forgot everything or didn't really understand what you needed to), it's not that difficult to get a 30+.
 
The MCAT only tests the basics, but it's difficult because the questions are tricky.
It doesn't predict your success in med school at all. Not at all, because it tests your test-taking skills more than knowledge.

Not true. There is a correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores.

"The Biological Sciences section most directly correlates to success on the USMLE Step 1 exam, with a correlation coefficient of .553 vs .491 for Physical Sciences and .397 for Verbal Reasoning.[2] Predictably, MCAT composite scores also correlate with USMLE Step 1 success"
 
Not true. There is a correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores.

"The Biological Sciences section most directly correlates to success on the USMLE Step 1 exam, with a correlation coefficient of .553 vs .491 for Physical Sciences and .397 for Verbal Reasoning.[2] Predictably, MCAT composite scores also correlate with USMLE Step 1 success"

Why has everyone always said that Verbal is the most important section and correlates most with step 1 of the 3 sections on the MCAT?
 
My question is. Is the MCAT really that hard? If so, what do you find about it to be difficult?

Do you remember the classic game, Oregon Trail? Yeah, it's like that. Except everyone gets dysentery on this trail. Or the symptoms of it, right before the test, at least.
 
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