Egyptian as African American?

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lostpremed123

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Can Egyptian-Arabs put down black/African American on their AMCAS or will they be caught during interviews if they don't look black?
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Mansamusa said:
So can a person put that they are black when they won't look black at the interview because they aren't black?
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But this person is very tan (doesn't look white, but not quite black) and wears a hijab so her hair is covered. Will they confront her about the race she put down?
 
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I see this a lot. I don't recommend it. It makes the applicant appear disingenuous (at worst) or clueless (at best).
No one is going to confront anyone, though.
Egyptians are very well represented among practicing US physicians. http://www.naama.com/about/arab-american-physicians/
 
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Hmmm...and maybe a white South African too? smh...
 
lostpremed123 said:
But this person is very tan (doesn't look white, but not quite black) and wears a hijab so her hair is covered. Will they confront her about the race she put down?
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As LizzyM says, put what you would put on the census (looked it up- Egyptians usually put white or other. And there is a movement to add more categories for Arab and Middle-Eastern people to the census list)

They may not say something to her, but in adcom meetings they may say that she is trying to game them. That obviously won't be good
 
So if I have a peer who did this should I report her? Or will she be caught as the process goes on?
 
They can check whatever box they want as to ethnic ID, but it will blow up in their face on interview day

lostpremed123 said:
Can Egyptian-Arabs put down black/African American on their AMCAS or will they be caught during interviews if they don't look black?
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lostpremed123 said:
Can Egyptian-Arabs put down black/African American on their AMCAS or will they be caught during interviews if they don't look black?
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You are not African-American. That category defines the populations of people specifically with black ancestors, and typically means those descended from enslaved Africans (usually from the west coast of Africa).

It's not that you're not African... and it's not that you're not American. It's just the term "African-American" is a category that carries a meaning beyond the two adjectives shoved together.

So, no. Don't put that down on AMCAS. It's a bad idea.
 
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African-American is SUPPOSED TO BE a broad term meaning anyone originating from Africa who lives in America. Because around 80% of Africa is dark-skinned, many people use the terms 'African American' and 'Black' interchangeably.

You can definitely list yourself as African-American, but overall, this term has been used in the wrong way, which I am sure Adcoms will understand.
 
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Technology said:
African-American is SUPPOSED TO BE a broad term meaning anyone originating from Africa who lives in America. Because around 80% of Africa is dark-skinned, many people use the terms 'African American' and 'Black' interchangeably.

You can definitely list yourself as African-American, but overall, this term has been used in the wrong way, which I am sure Adcoms will understand.
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Who made you the expert on what it's "supposed to mean"? Black and Afro-American scholars came up with the definition. You going to write a letter to Jesse Jackson and tell him he's made a "grave error"?

OP, just don't do it. Seriously...
 
Technology said:
African-American is SUPPOSED TO BE a broad term meaning anyone originating from Africa who lives in America. Because around 80% of Africa is dark-skinned, many people use the terms 'African American' and 'Black' interchangeably.

You can definitely list yourself as African-American, but overall, this term has been used in the wrong way, which I am sure Adcoms will understand.
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It's a little more complex than that.

http://english.alarabiya.net/views/2012/09/10/237140.html

It seems that Egyptians are more likely to identify as Arab-Americans than African-American and more likely to identify as Arabic than African ie. Identifying as African in this case seems to be done specifically to benefit from AA. Egypt is also considered a part of the Middle East, which further removes it from an African identity

And the term African-American emerged specifically to describe 1) descendents of slaves or 2) descendent of black ethnic group Africa. So it is pretty clear what is meant by African American (the census also says black/African-American because they acknowledge that African-American can be interpreted too broadly)
 
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Arab = Caucasian = White

Edit: I am Arab-American. None of the many Egyptians I know say they are African-American or African.
 
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lostpremed123 said:
So if I have a peer who did this should I report her? Or will she be caught as the process goes on?
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Report what? If she's of Egyptian heritage, and she lives in the u.s., whether she looks it or not, she IS African american. There's nothing disingenuous about it. Last I checked, Egypt is still in africa.

Don't put black, obviously, but if there's a box for African American, go for it.
 
I am 1/1024th Mohican. I cry every time I watch "The Last of the Mohicans." Does that count?
 
chrisjh said:
Report what? If she's of Egyptian heritage, and she lives in the u.s., whether she looks it or not, she IS African american. There's nothing disingenuous about it. Last I checked, Egypt is still in africa.

Don't put black, obviously, but if there's a box for African American, go for it.
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I agree with this. AFRICA does not mean black. Africa is a continent, not a pigment. Egypt is in Africa, and his family moved to America, ergo he is African-American.

Mansamusa said:
It's a little more complex than that.

http://english.alarabiya.net/views/2012/09/10/237140.html

It seems that Egyptians are more likely to identify as Arab-Americans than African-American and more likely to identify as Arabic than African ie. Identifying as African in this case seems to be done specifically to benefit from AA. Egypt is also considered a part of the Middle East, which further removes it from an African identity

And the term African-American emerged specifically to describe 1) descendents of slaves or 2) descendent of black ethnic group Africa. So it is pretty clear what is meant by African American (the census also says black/African-American because they acknowledge that African-American can be interpreted too broadly)
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It should not matter whether it is in the Middle-East or not. What matters is that is that Egypt IS in Africa. Do the 10 million Uyghurs of western China identify as an eastern-Asian genetically? No, but they still are from China.

1) Descendants of slaves? There were millions of black slaves in Europe – in what way are their descendants 'American'? 2) Descendant of black ethnic Africa – that seems much more valid, and is definitely a good argument, even though I do not fully agree that this compound word should solely describe those ethnic groups.

To be MD said:
Who made you the expert on what it's "supposed to mean"? Black and Afro-American scholars came up with the definition. You going to write a letter to Jesse Jackson and tell him he's made a "grave error"?

OP, just don't do it. Seriously...
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Who made me the expert? This topic truly has no expert – don't you notice the plethora of threads on FSDN regarding this topic? When you see the term 'flower petal' do you immediately think of leaf petals? Because when I hear the vague term 'African-American', I think of Africans who migrated to America, not just black people.
 
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The US Government has a definition that is used in US census and other government offices: “Black or African American” refers to a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

So, it does not apply to anyone with roots in n Africa but only those with origins in the Black racial groups of Africa.
 
LizzyM said:
The US Government has a definition that is used in US census and other government offices: “Black or African American” refers to a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

So, it does not apply to anyone with roots in n Africa but only those with origins in the Black racial groups of Africa.
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Wait so if it says "Black or African American" that means "Black" but if they say "African American" it means any race in Africa?

Why the heck don't they just say "Black"?
 
LizzyM said:
The US Government has a definition that is used in US census and other government offices: “Black or African American” refers to a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

So, it does not apply to anyone with roots in n Africa but only those with origins in the Black racial groups of Africa.
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Very deceiving. OP – America does not think you are African 🙁 In fact... America (for the most part) thinks only the areas in grey constitute Africa (except the Sinai Peninsula – unsure of why that was not colored green as is the rest of Egypt).

400px-WGSRPD_North_Africa.jpg
 
Technology said:
Very deceiving. OP – America does not think you are African 🙁 In fact... America (for the most part) thinks only the areas in grey constitute Africa (except the Sinai Peninsula – unsure of why that was not colored green as is the rest of Egypt).

400px-WGSRPD_North_Africa.jpg
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Black/African-American/Negro (word used in the census) is not deceiving....unless you are argumentative and/or want to benefit from appearing URM on paper. African-American is still used because it was historically used to identity black Americans and is understood as such.
North Africans and middle-Easterners have been calling for their own census term because they aren't interested in being called black/African-American either.

The Uyghurs don't have to identify as Chinese....Geographically they are Chinese, but when the census asks for race, depending on their particular background, they could be Chinese Asian, other Asian, Caucasian, or other. (One of the example under 'Other Asian' in the 2010 census is Hmong who also live in China)

What you may be missing is that there is a difference between race vs ethnicity vs geographic location. The term African-American is a racial term; it is not a geographical indicator. So an Egyptian right now would be a white, Arabic person who lives in Africa (race, ethnicity, geography in that order)

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...nges-in-how-it-asks-about-race-and-ethnicity/ And look.
Here is what a potential census redesign will look like. It makes it very clear what they mean by the historical African-American as a racial term and they let you know where Egyptian gets classified- though Arabic people would like their own category, which seems appropriate

(Edit: Yeah, just looked up my saved AMCAs application. They do specifically ask for race identification, so an Egyptian cannot choose black/African-American)
 
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Technology said:
According to the US Government it is not, but everyone has their own opinion about this term.
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So when it is listed under "race identification" it is literally a racial classification no matter your opinion (and it always includes , Black along with African-American to further clarify). Unless you now want to argue that continents are races and that we are all racially North American, in which case goodbye Felicia because you just want to argue.
 
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DingoPingo said:
Wait so if it says "Black or African American" that means "Black" but if they say "African American" it means any race in Africa?

Why the heck don't they just say "Black"?
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Because racial terms are seeped in history. Some older black people prefer African-American to black because black used to be a non-PC term. And we go white, black, Asian, Native American rather than yellow and red because those terms have been used in offensive ways (also NAs aren't red...). African-American can be dropped, but it stays for cultural reasons (these terms have importance to some people).
 
Mansamusa said:
So when it is listed under "race identification" it is literally a racial classification no matter your opinion (and it always includes , Black along with African-American to further clarify). Unless you now want to argue that continents are races and that we are all racially North American, in which case goodbye Felicia because you just want to argue.
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LOL I am not arguing that continents only carry one race. I am simply saying that the term is misleading – I look at the term 'African-American' as a compound word, nothing more.

Ok. Yes, for racial identification he is considered white. I still do not think it should include 'African-American'. Black is specific enough. White Americans do not need the term 'European-American' to confirm their race and neither should black people.
 
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panda16 said:
Arab = Caucasian = White

Edit: I am Arab-American. None of the many Egyptians I know say they are African-American or African.
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My math degree dies a little bit when I see equals signs tossed around irresponsibly.
 
I remember this same thread a couple years back. Egyptians are considered caucasians under the AMCAS guidelines (I even cited it as well).
 
If you're black and you're from Asia are you African-American or Asian-American?
 
All of my Egyptian friends that applied with me last cycle (2015-2016) claimed they were African American and received over 15 interview invitations. However they didn't garner that many acceptances. Almost all 15 of those schools Waitlisted. The exact breakdown was 10 WL, 5 accept, n = 2 of my friends. There stats were extremely borderline (1 had a 30 mcat, the other a 28, and GPA ~3.5).
 
If someone asks you have you ever been to Africa, you can answer yes. Because Egypt is a country within the continent of Africa.

If someone asks you your ethnicity, you can't answer "African-American". Egyptians who are now Americans are simply "Arab-Americans". However, as @gyngyn and @LizzyM have mentioned numerous times, Arab-Americans are in abundance in the medical profession. We are not under-represented. And because the AAMC doesn't have a check box for "Middle Eastern" or "Arab-American", you indicate that you are White.

Then, throughout your application, you can subtly hint to the readers that you are Arabic and not simply Caucasian, by indicating your bilingual proficiency or about your time traveling, or about your time volunteering in Arab-American communities, or your parents being born overseas.



This is really not that hard.
 
I'm Egyptian and applied as White -- same as I would for a government form. Do I actually consider myself White? Nope, but I'm certainly not African-American either. Adcom members would certainly realize this by interview day. There are plenty of opportunities to discuss your Egyptian-ness in secondary apps beyond that little checkmark, anyways.
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
or about your time traveling
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Man I wish Caucasians had super powers, instead we just make movies about it 😉

Yeah OP don't put African American, interviews will be rather um enlightening if you do. I also agree with EspressoDrip 42, there are other ways to subtly mention and talk about your background in essays
 
Dr. Stalker said:
All of my Egyptian friends that applied with me last cycle (2015-2016) claimed they were African American and received over 15 interview invitations. However they didn't garner that many acceptances. Almost all 15 of those schools Waitlisted. The exact breakdown was 10 WL, 5 accept, n = 2 of my friends. There stats were extremely borderline (1 had a 30 mcat, the other a 28, and GPA ~3.5).
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5 acceptances is pretty good tho, especially if schools caught on that they are Arab and not black.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Out of curiosity, if you are a white Afrikaans and can trace your ancestry to Africa before America was even a thing, could you then put yourself as AA?
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
Out of curiosity, if you are a white Afrikaans and can trace your ancestry to Africa before America was even a thing, could you then put yourself as AA?
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Of course, it's not necessarily about the color of your skin but the ability to talk about and relate to the African American experience. Something that should easily come across you app


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
If thats the case then how much melanin do you have to be until you can classify yourself as black without incurring vile looks from adcoms?
 
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