Ellis, REBT, and "Gloria"

[erg923]

Just curious if anyone else has seen the video of famous session between Albert Ellis and "Gloria." I had seen her with Pearls and Rogers, but for some reason never saw her with Ellis until recently. Good lord, what a piss poor performance! I've never seen a therapist ramble and talk so much. I just wanted him to shut his mouth for 2 seconds and listen to her! Good technique (REBT) with lots of truths and benefits for uncovering issues and changing them, but terrible implementation on his part. Am I alone here? My supervisor specifically said before showing us the vid: "This is how is should NOT be done." I know he didnt have alot of time and he was going for the gusto, but still....it just didn't come off well.

Lastly, how can anyone trained in this field be so oblivious to her non-verbal cues?! I saw it from minute one. And the positive grin she had at the end was her just going along and defending against the badgering. At the end debriefing, he thought it went great and she stated was practically horrified and would never see him again. Isn't the main goal of the first session to get your client to come back for the second session?.....

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[myelin]

That's an oldie but a goodie. I think she relates to Rogers very well and even states how she likes Rogers tone and demeanor better than Ellis'. I don't blame her. Wasn't she smoking like a freight train in those videos?

 

[JockNerd]

She said after that she liked Ellis the best.

You were seeing resistance? Gloria had read his stuff in the past, she said so during the session. I saw something like admiration, maybe amusement at being on the receiving end of what she had read about, and some attraction.

 

[irish80122]

She said after that she liked Ellis the best.

You were seeing resistance? Gloria had read his stuff in the past, she said so during the session. I saw something like admiration, maybe amusement at being on the receiving end of what she had read about, and some attraction.

NO, this is incorrect! She liked Pearls the best.

I wasn't impressed with Ellis in the video either, I actually liked Rogers the best, but that may tell you a bit about my orientation.

 

[erg923]

...now how the hell is it that we have 3 complete different views of who she liked best? Doesn't she say it outright in the video, at the end?

 

[cara susanna]

She ended up going to Fritz Perls, I believe. I liked Ellis's ideas but he was too forceful; I preferred Beck's more middle of the road approach with Richard, even though he didn't find out as much about him as another therapist (I totally forget who). Rogers was nice but Gloria had a lot of insight about herself that not everyone would be able to find out on their own. My favorite of the videos we watched was Linehan, though.

Note: I'm an undergrad, but we watched these in one of my classes. 😀

 

[erg923]

She said after that she liked Ellis the best.

I saw something like admiration, maybe amusement at being on the receiving end of what she had read about, and some attraction.

I definitely caught the transference-like thing at the end Ellis's segment. Anyone else? She states something to the effect of "what? I should just like walk into doctors office and start trying to get with him? Hmm..a doctors office huh?.....

 

[cmuhooligan]

...now how the hell is it that we have 3 complete different views of who she liked best? Doesn't she say it outright in the video, at the end?

I'm with Irish on this one, I'm pretty sure she went with Fritz. Although, I believe she ended up having a close relationship with Rodgers that lasted for some time.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1st year we saw those.....quite the contrast. I always admired Roger's ability to connect with the pt, though I have a hard time seeing his style to work outside of a sub-set of pts.

 

[JockNerd]

Apparently everything we've heard about what happened after is a giant festival of lies.

http://www.counselormagazine.com/content/view/53/

 

[erg923]

I agree. The six necessary and sufficient principles paper he wrote in the 60s was entertaining, but I think resesrch has shown that many of them are necessary but all six are NOT sufficient.

 

[cara susanna]

I thought that they were called the necessary but not sufficient principles? Or was that changed later?

 

[erg923]

I thought that they were called the necessary but not sufficient principles? Or was that changed later?

The paper I'm thinking is titled "necessary and sufficient"

Fascinating link. Sounds like their was some scrupulous business going on behind the scenes. I obviously didn't even mention the Pearls session cause it was obvious what a travesty it was clinically, irregardless of what she "said" she thought would help her most. You would just never keep a referral base treating people like that from the get go. I remember reading a book of Pearls one time where he admitted something to the effect of that he was never shy in raising his fist to a woman. I consulted with my wife on this one, and she advised me this may not be the best advice.......🙄

 

[cara susanna]

Hmm, my professor must have told us that they are not sufficient because of that evidence, then.

 

[erg923]

Interesting book telling about Gloria's life and unfortuante early death:
http://www.pccs-books.co.uk/product.php?xProd=420&xSec=1&jssCart=adf5db38d40e2ef3199b3d65118c9b03

 

[The2abraxis]

wow thats a shame. im guessing its not on youtube?? :-D id love to see it.

edit- it is on youtube!!

edit 2- that was terrible!!!!! Ellis lost some points in my book there. Isnt a major part of this therapy (or any) to guide the client/patient to their own problems, in stead of telling them? theres no way that was happening here :-D

 

[JockNerd]

Well, I think Ellis may have been focusing on demonstrating some unique features of REBT rather than really trying to "do therapy." From what I've read of him, his first sessions with a client didn't really have the "It's nice to meet you CHANGE YOUR IRRATIONAL BELIEFS!" quality that the tape seems to project. But demonstrating a real first session probably wouldn't have been a fair shake of what REBT looks like most of the time.

...that was terrible!!!!! Ellis lost some points in my book there. Isnt a major part of this therapy (or any) to guide the client/patient to their own problems, in stead of telling them? theres no way that was happening here :-D

Eh, I've seem some examples of people doing a pretty terrible job of "guiding" that really looks a lot more like "leading," and is probably, I'd guess, even less helpful than just telling the client things. I think Ellis made it pretty clear in his writings that he would present the ABC model to clients, fit their situation into it, and advocate for it.

 

[The2abraxis]

Well, I think Ellis may have been focusing on demonstrating some unique features of REBT rather than really trying to "do therapy." From what I've read of him, his first sessions with a client didn't really have the "It's nice to meet you CHANGE YOUR IRRATIONAL BELIEFS!" quality that the tape seems to project. But demonstrating a real first session probably wouldn't have been a fair shake of what REBT looks like most of the time.



Eh, I've seem some examples of people doing a pretty terrible job of "guiding" that really looks a lot more like "leading," and is probably, I'd guess, even less helpful than just telling the client things. I think Ellis made it pretty clear in his writings that he would present the ABC model to clients, fit their situation into it, and advocate for it.

ahhh. i think I worded what i said badly. but i can see where "leading" would be rather bad.

From the few readings that I have read, it has said to allow the client/patient to tell you their problem through questioning and the like, instead of infering and telling them what their problem is (although it might be needed).

what is the most "therapeutic" way in finding out what the problem is?


and about the video, this did seem more like introducing REBT and what it is about instead of an actual session. I would heop he does it much more differently 😀

 

[biogirl215]

"It's nice to meet you CHANGE YOUR IRRATIONAL BELIEFS!"

The thought of clinician actually doing this has me rolling in laughter. Burn out, much? 🙂

 

[Cosmo75]

and about the video, this did seem more like introducing REBT and what it is about instead of an actual session. I would heop he does it much more differently 😀

Ellis died last year 😉

I personally admire Ellis and find the tenets of REBT to be useful with many clients I see. It's not for everyone, that's for sure. I adapt my approach based on the person I'm working with. And I've never been as "direct" as Ellis. But I enjoy his theory and its integration of cognitive behavioral theory with humanistic psychology and ethical humanism.

 

[american red]

I remember reading a book of Pearls one time where he admitted something to the effect of that he was never shy in raising his fist to a woman.

I demand to know what book. You cannot just make an accusation like that without at least knowing the name of the book.