EM With a Fellowship in Wilderness?

[7starmantis]

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Anyone else heard of/involved in/interested in wilderness medicine? I think there are only a handful of programs in the US (and world for that matter) but it sounds frekin awesome. I've been a survivalist for years so it sounds more like a hobby than a career choice for me, but I'd give a year for it! It totally fascinates me.

Here is Stanford's program (1st in the nation I believe).
http://emed.stanford.edu/fellowships/wilderness.html

 

[Wheee]

Anyone else heard of/involved in/interested in wilderness medicine? I think there are only a handful of programs in the US (and world for that matter) but it sounds frekin awesome. I've been a survivalist for years so it sounds more like a hobby than a career choice for me, but I'd give a year for it! It totally fascinates me.

Here is Stanford's program (1st in the nation I believe).
http://emed.stanford.edu/fellowships/wilderness.html

UW Madison has an elective, but that's the extent to which I've heard of wilderness medicine. I don't think I fully understand what it is.

 

[7starmantis]

UW Madison has an elective, but that's the extent to which I've heard of wilderness medicine. I don't think I fully understand what it is.

What I'm referring to is a full fellowship (1 year) for emergency medicine. Its catching on fast but Stanford was the first. Here are some of the listed learning objectives from Stanford. Its like Survivor Man MD.

Hyperbaric and Marine Medicine

Dive Medicine
Hyperbaric Medicine
Injuries and Envenomations
Marine Toxidromes

Wilderness Trauma

Assessment and stabilization
Orthopedics/bandaging/splinting
Wilderness foot care
Wilderness improvisation
Wilderness Trauma/ Wound care

Tropical and Travel Medicine

Field water disinfection
Travel and infectious disease
Infectious diarrhea

Rescue and Survival

Search and rescue
Aerospace Medicine
Expedition medical kits

Mountaineering Medicine

High altitude physiology
High altitude illness
Hypothermia / Heat Illness

Animal Hazards

Arthropod and zoonotic infections
Snake envenomations
Antivenoms

Wilderness Medicine Research

Designing the research question
Fundamentals of research
Research proposals
Grant applications

Faculty Development

Presentation tools
Fundamentals of public speaking
Lecture presentations
Planning for seminars, lectures

 

[cbear]

Yea! I have looked into it. It sounds pretty awesome. I know at most med schools you can do an elective rotation with NOLS but I didn't know there were full fellowships for it. +1 for OP.

 

[kia ora]

Yea! I have looked into it. It sounds pretty awesome. I know at most med schools you can do an elective rotation with NOLS but I didn't know there were full fellowships for it. +1 for OP.

+1 for cbear! I did not know about the possibility of a NOLS elective. I am for sure looking into that. I love to play outside!

 

[ILikeDrugs]

HOLY SHET THATS AMAZING!!!
EM is #2 (tied with neurology) on my favorite specialties list.
if i had a realistic shot at making it as a wilderness EM doc i would tie it at #1 with radiology.

 

[7starmantis]

HOLY SHET THATS AMAZING!!!
EM is #2 (tied with neurology) on my favorite specialties list.
if i had a realistic shot at making it as a wilderness EM doc i would tie it at #1 with radiology.

EM is #2 behind Rad? There is quite a big difference in pay scales there you know 🙂 Actually I'm nearly in the same boat, but I figure I'll change my mind a million more times. I would do a fellowship in wilderness just for the fun of it, even if I didn't use it in my career!! 😀

 

[7starmantis]

Anyone have any idea for average salaries for fellowship trained badass doctors? (by badass I mean wilderness med).

 

[AnnaBananax]

I'm a second year at USUHS, and we've already been exposed to a bunch of that stuff, complete with several field training exercises and mass casualty drills. If that's what you're interested in, you should read up on military programs...really unparalleled training opportunities...and you draw a salary while you're a student.

 

[dikoerastenie]

I think being a traditional ortho surgeon is more exciting.

 

[cbear]

I think being a traditional ortho surgeon is more exciting.

WHATCHU TALKIN BOUT WILLIS?!?

And by that I mean, different strokes for different folks.

 

[Hoody]

although not even close to a professional fellowship, there is NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) and WMI (Wilderness Medicine Institute)....I've done a semester at NOLS and highly recommend it! 👍

NOLS
WMI
Medicine in the Wild Medical Student Elective for 3rd/4th years - student profiles

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I've always wanted to do NOLS' Wilderness Upgrade course to get my EMT-B cert upgraded to a WEMT. I think this summer I'm actually going to do it. 🙂 EM is definitely the most interesting specialty to me, from my experiences so far, and a Wilderness EM fellowship would rock! There's also a few really cool toxicology EM fellowships around the nation that sound awesome.

 

[7starmantis]

Toxicology is very interesting to me as well. So much to choose from! 🙂

 

[ArkansasRanger]

What's the end goal of a wildnerness fellowship?

I agree it's interesting, and I'd like to learn that stuff as well, but I'm not sure all of it is worth a year of one's life if nothing else is to come from it.

 

[FIREitUP]

seems interesting, but would definitely limit where you can practice.

 

[locus000]

What's the end goal of a wildnerness fellowship?

I agree it's interesting, and I'd like to learn that stuff as well, but I'm not sure all of it is worth a year of one's life if nothing else is to come from it.

you will fit right in in Alaska or one of the other wilderness states. I guess this is for those that wants to work in small towns rather then big cities

 

[PiBond]

This is the coolest thing I've seen all day. Ironic that I'm at work (in the ER)

 

[7starmantis]

What's the end goal of a wildnerness fellowship?

I agree it's interesting, and I'd like to learn that stuff as well, but I'm not sure all of it is worth a year of one's life if nothing else is to come from it.

seems interesting, but would definitely limit where you can practice.

I don't know I guess there are a couple of ways to look at it. First being simply to gain knowledge and experience with wilderness type medicine. Sure you may not see it much if your working in 5th ward in Houston, but you never know where you might be or what you might see when you need that experience (weak argument I know, but its valid).

I dont see it limiting where you could work, you aren't going to miss out of the ER job in town just because you have more advanced training in a sub specialty like wilderness, right?

I guess a second way of looking at it is as more of a hobby. Some people collect stamps...
As a wilderness/survivalist one would be more inclined to spend a year of their life in this sort of training. I find myself in this group more than the other. It would be fun, enjoyable, great learning and experience, and could only help with regards to ER work, medical trips to undeserved areas of the world, etc. Plus you get to be like a medical macgyver!! 😀

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I don't know I guess there are a couple of ways to look at it. First being simply to gain knowledge and experience with wilderness type medicine. Sure you may not see it much if your working in 5th ward in Houston, but you never know where you might be or what you might see when you need that experience (weak argument I know, but its valid).

I dont see it limiting where you could work, you aren't going to miss out of the ER job in town just because you have more advanced training in a sub specialty like wilderness, right?

I guess a second way of looking at it is as more of a hobby. Some people collect stamps...
As a wilderness/survivalist one would be more inclined to spend a year of their life in this sort of training. I find myself in this group more than the other. It would be fun, enjoyable, great learning and experience, and could only help with regards to ER work, medical trips to undeserved areas of the world, etc. Plus you get to be like a medical macgyver!! 😀

Yeah, a rotation in it would be cool enough for me I guess.

Ah Macgyver...I grew up watching that and even have a Swiss army knife in my pocket now that I've carried for 19 years.

 

[maltonole]

Sdn interviewed a EM physician who worked in Yosemite National Park. I wonder if he went through a wilderness fellowship specifically.
I think this is an awesome way to practice medicine. I took a WMI course and it was great. The resourcefulness with all the camping gear to treat injuries was one of the best parts.

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, a rotation in it would be cool enough for me I guess.

Ah Macgyver...I grew up watching that and even have a Swiss army knife in my pocket now that I've carried for 19 years.

Nice! I was hoping I wasn't showing my age too much with the Macgyver statement.

Hopefully I would be more like a medical Macgyver than a medical Macruber!

 

[panthera]

Sdn interviewed a EM physician who worked in Yosemite National Park. I wonder if he went through a wilderness fellowship specifically.
I think this is an awesome way to practice medicine. I took a WMI course and it was great. The resourcefulness with all the camping gear to treat injuries was one of the best parts.

I remember what interview you're talking about. I'm pretty sure he was in family medicine.

That would be cool if they offered the fellowship for fm docs

 

[FIREitUP]

.
http://www.leapfrog.com/en/families/leapster/leapster_learning/lx_dora.html

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I remember what interview you're talking about. I'm pretty sure he was in family medicine.

That would be cool if they offered the fellowship for fm docs

Try this out.

http://musom.marshall.edu/fch/wilderness.html

http://meb.marshall.edu/fch/

 

[r0ckaction]

What's the end goal of a wildnerness fellowship?

I agree it's interesting, and I'd like to learn that stuff as well, but I'm not sure all of it is worth a year of one's life if nothing else is to come from it.

One could function as an expedition physician worldwide. Groups attempting Everest, peaks in the Andes, the Alps, Pakistan, etc all take along physicians with relevent experience. Additionally, Everest base camp has their own sort of emergency department.

Other possibilities include working disaster relief efforts, medical missions, working near national parks, backcountry ski areas (or heli ski groups), scuba diving meccas, or working with organizations such as doctors without borders, NASA, or national geographic.

http://www.wilderness-medicine.com/

if you are active in mountaineering, the faculty list here reads like a dream team. A quick glance through their accomplishments will give you a decent picture of the variety of options availible.

http://www.wilderness-medicine.com/default.asp?pg=faculty

If i opt to do wilderness training it will be so that I can function as an expedition doctor, not so I can land a better EM position.

 

[FloatOn]

Doctor vs Wild. If this were a tv show, I would totally tune in every week.

 

[Ibn Rushd]

Sdn interviewed a EM physician who worked in Yosemite National Park.

I'd LOVE to read/watch this! Someone please link it! 🙂

 

[riverjib]

Anyone else heard of/involved in/interested in wilderness medicine? I think there are only a handful of programs in the US (and world for that matter) but it sounds frekin awesome. I've been a survivalist for years so it sounds more like a hobby than a career choice for me, but I'd give a year for it! It totally fascinates me.

Here is Stanford's program (1st in the nation I believe).
http://emed.stanford.edu/fellowships/wilderness.html

That sounds amazing! Years before I ever considered medicine as a career, I dropped out of college to help support my family. I taught whitewater kayaking, rock climbing, and mountaineering/wilderness survival for three years. I took the NOLS Wilderness EMT course, and read everything I could about wilderness survival and medicine for the backcountry.

I would kill for a chance at a program like this. My main interest now is in Emergency Medicine, but if there is a way to combine my critical care with my passion for living off the grid, I'm in!

 

[Hoody]

Medicine in the Wild - Medical Student Elective
Duration: 25 DaysEducation Pre-requisite: 3rd or 4th year medical student
Tuition: $4,425(Financial Aid Info)
Dates: April 5 - April 29, 2010
Medical School Credit:
(Optional) Should be approved individually at student's medical school.
Course start/end: Tucson, AZ
Equipment Deposit: $350
Fly in/out: Tucson, AZ
Downloads: Course Description - 2010
Letter to School Deans (pdf)
How to apply: Application-2010 (pdf)
or call 1-866-831-9001

Wilderness Medicine Institute (WMI) and the Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency (HAEMR) are working in partnership to provide the Medicine in the Wild Program. In addition to a team of experienced NOLS and WMI educators, a senior resident from HAEMR will accompany the expedition and provide advanced medical modules and teachings. The course begins with a five-day Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals (WUMP) at a remote teaching facility. The WUMP is followed by a day of advanced clinics taught by the senior HAEMR resident. Your expedition then travels into the historic Gila Wilderness in New Mexico for nearly three weeks in order to practice your newfound skills. Your course will conclude with a visit from an HAEMR faculty member with experience as a wilderness medicine physician.

***

Students from the following medical schools have successfully completed this elective course:​

• Albany Medical College
  
• Albert Einstein College of Medicine
  
• Baylor School of Medicine
  
• Case Western Reserve School of Medicine
  
• Dalhousie University
  
• Harvard School of Public Health
  
• Indiana University School of Medicine
  
• Jefferson Medical College
  
• Karolinska Instituten
  
• Midwestern University
  
• Northwestern Medical School
  
• Nottingham University
  
• NYU School of Medicine
  
• Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
  
• Ross University School of Medicine
  
• SUNY at Buffalo School of Medicine
  
• Temple University
  
• Tufts School of Medicine
  
• University of Alabama School of Medicine
  
• University of British Columbia
  
• University of Cincinnati
  
• University of Kansas
  
• University of Michigan Medical School
  
• University of Minnesota
  
• University of Ottawa
  
• University of Pennsylvania
  
• University of Southern California
  
• Wagner College
  
• Washington University School of Medicine

 

[Hoody]

Anyone else heard of/involved in/interested in wilderness medicine? I think there are only a handful of programs in the US (and world for that matter) but it sounds frekin awesome. I've been a survivalist for years so it sounds more like a hobby than a career choice for me, but I'd give a year for it! It totally fascinates me.

Here is Stanford's program (1st in the nation I believe).
http://emed.stanford.edu/fellowships/wilderness.html

Don't tell anyone that the associate director of this program graduated school from St. George's University.

 

[7starmantis]

Medicine in the Wild - Medical Student Elective

I'm so glad you posted this, I am so serious about trying to fit one of these in during 3rd or 4th year!

Don't tell anyone that the associate director of this program graduated school from St. George's University.

I just saw that on the other thread, thats awesome! I almost took off to SGU last year when I didn't get in off the waitlist.

 

[HOHOHO]

I also just noticed this. Besides a formal fellowship one can also do an independent one through the wilderness medicine society as a premed or a medical student. I saw the www.phillywildernessconference.org wilderness medicine conference for medical students is also offering credit toward the fellowship. I'm intrigued!

 

[7starmantis]

I also heard there were lots of wilderness courses offered as CME's which would be cool as well.

 

[MaryLennox]

i just watched this documentary about these guys who were skiing and triggered an avalanche, and the doctor has to get his ass up a snowy mountain (presumably on skis or something) to see a guy who had broken his leg and lost half his blood. i definitely couldn't do that . . . so wilderness medicine sounds like a useful and much appreciated skill.

 

[FloatOn]

i just watched this documentary about these guys who were skiing and triggered an avalanche, and the doctor has to get his ass up a snowy mountain (presumably on skis or something) to see a guy who had broken his leg and lost half his blood. i definitely couldn't do that . . . so wilderness medicine sounds like a useful and much appreciated skill.

Lol, what!?

No fancy snowmobile or helicopter for the doctor?

 

[tradgirl]

Weill Cornell has a program like this for residents and med students: http://nypemergency.org/residency/wilderness.html.

Cornell Outdoor Education has a close relationship with a couple of the docs down there in particular, and if I'm not mistaken, they've been working on developing a wilderness responder curriculum/protocols separate from the standard WMA/WMI/SOLO type curricula.

 

[JoshUNCW]

Lol, what!?

No fancy snowmobile or helicopter for the doctor?

Just wanted to point out that snowmobiles are more lightly to trigger another avalanche than skis. And helicopters can't fly above a certain height because the air isn't thick enough to support them. Which is why we can't just helicopter up Everest.

 

[FloatOn]

Just wanted to point out that snowmobiles are more lightly to trigger another avalanche than skis. And helicopters can't fly above a certain height because the air isn't thick enough to support them. Which is why we can't just helicopter up Everest.

Ah ok, thanks. That's what I thought. I was just waiting for someone to confirm it. 🙂

 

[JoshUNCW]

Ah ok, thanks. That's what I thought. I was just waiting for someone to confirm it. 🙂

No prob, spent some time of my life living in Tahoe. Not Everest. But I know a little bit about avalanches haha.

 

[MaryLennox]

Just wanted to point out that snowmobiles are more lightly to trigger another avalanche than skis. And helicopters can't fly above a certain height because the air isn't thick enough to support them. Which is why we can't just helicopter up Everest.

i think the problem with the helicopters was that there were white-out conditions. of course, once the doctor determined that the dude would probably not make it through the night, a helicopter did come. but it was risky.

skiing is terrifying. it was really sad too, the guy who triggered the avalanche was killed immediately, and he had an 8-month pregnant wife at home. I don't know about you but if i was 8 months pregnant i would be like, you know, honey, why don't you NOT go skiing on a dangerous mountain in a blizzard this time around?

 

[FloatOn]

No prob, spent some time of my life living in Tahoe. Not Everest. But I know a little bit about avalanches haha.

Every time I hear/read about avalanches, I think of the movie Vertical Limit. Seen it? There were probably so many wrongs things in it, but it was entertaining nonetheless.

i think the problem with the helicopters was that there were white-out conditions. of course, once the doctor determined that the dude would probably not make it through the night, a helicopter did come. but it was risky.

skiing is terrifying. it was really sad too, the guy who triggered the avalanche was killed immediately, and he had an 8-month pregnant wife at home. I don't know about you but if i was 8 months pregnant i would be like, you know, honey, why don't you NOT go skiing on a dangerous mountain in a blizzard this time around?

If a man wants to ski, he's gonna ski damnit!

 

[7starmantis]

<------ Would be the doctor hiking up the mountain if I thought I could buy groceries for my family doing it. Oh, and keep from getting told this:

you know, honey, why don't you NOT go skiing on a dangerous mountain in a blizzard this time around?

😀

 

[DrTsunami]

I'm so glad to hear others are interested in Wilderness Medicine too! I'm going to check out all the information and links in this thread so far! I just ordered a book called: Moutain Rescue Doctor: Wilderness Medicine in The Extremes Of Nature by Christopher Van Tilburg, M.D. He tells about what he did to get into wilderness medicine professionally. He talks about how he managed to combine wilderness medicine with his rotations/residencies. Also, the book is supposed to have a lot of stories of what he has done with wilderness medicine. Very inspiring--I can't wait to read it! Thought everyone would be interested to check the book out too.

Check out this link for more information: http://mountainrescuedoctor.blogspot.com/

 

[MaryLennox]

If a man wants to ski, he's gonna ski damnit!

all right, all right . . . if it's just the two of you, then by all means do dangerous things. i just thought maybe given the situation with his family (PREGNANT WIFE) and the conditions (i guess on the way there, there were avalanche warnings, etc, and they decided to do it anyway) he might have had second thoughts. at least they could have canceled and come back when it was not such a bad snowstorm and avalanche risk? laughing in the face of danger is cool and all when you're young and single. but it's sad that this kid is growing up without a dad because dad thought it was worth risking his life to ski in treacherous conditions . . . 🙁

 

[mooshika]

Anyone else heard of/involved in/interested in wilderness medicine? I think there are only a handful of programs in the US (and world for that matter) but it sounds frekin awesome. I've been a survivalist for years so it sounds more like a hobby than a career choice for me, but I'd give a year for it! It totally fascinates me.

Here is Stanford's program (1st in the nation I believe).
http://emed.stanford.edu/fellowships/wilderness.html

UNC has a Wilderness Medicine club, and the Applachain Center for Wilderness Medicine is a really cool place. I am really interested in this but not sure if Stanford is really the only one... there might be others soon.

 

[wildlandmedical]

Wilderness medicine is super interesting. There are several other fellowships out there like the stanford's. I believe there is one in utah and another somewhere on the east coast. I hopefully plan to become a fellow in one of these programs one day seeing as though I have fully dedicated my undergraduate education to wilderness med related material. I know this is an allopathic forum but I know of several DO schools are in the process of establishing rural and wilderness medicine educational tracks that run all 4 years that cover everything from rural family medicine to mountain expedition medicine. One of these programs in particular requires rotations on expeditions. one program already exists at TCOM.
- as far as jobs in wilderness medicine go, I know of one company in particular, Remote medical, that employes physicians (mostly fam or EM) and deploys them on expeditions or to extremely remote research stations. its a pretty amazing company, if you have a chance you should check them out.

 

[Slowpoke]

holy crap, so i was scouring the stanford program and the doctors there, and the first one I clicked on is a clinical assistant professor of surgery..

punchline... he came from SGU.

http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/Grant_Lipman/

 

[7starmantis]

Don't tell anyone that the associate director of this program graduated school from St. George's University.

Too late. 🙂

 

[Morsetlis]

Considering I'm probably going to SGU I probably should smirk at this less than I'm currently doing.