Email from student

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nafcillin

nafcillin

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I am acquaintances with a 4th pharmacy student who is on rotation at my hospital. She is a sweet and very quiet girl with great grades and positive evals so far. I have this creepy coworker who had a reputation for hitting on (and sleeping with) coworkers and nurses. He is not a good person and I generally avoid him. I got this email on Friday at my personal email:

"Hey marissa--
How are you?? Miss seeing you! I have an ordeal that I need your advice on. Please don't tell my preceptor or anyone in the program because I am embarrassed. ___ has been hitting on me like you warned me about but the other day he stepped it up a notch. He grabbed me and threatened my grade if I said anything. I am sooooo upset and I don't know what the hell to do"

She went on for another paragraph and its not that relevant but she is scared to say anything. What do I do at this point?
 
Talk to your director and take his ass to HR.
Immediately.
 
Its Z said:
Talk to your director and take his ass to HR.
Immediately.
Click to expand...

You really shouldn't have to think about this one.

This person should be fired.

Tell the student you won't let this happen to her and you won't let it affect her grade.

Edit: As in if you let this slide, you are a coward and passively approving of the behaviour. Don't even try to argue about that.
 
You walk past a mistake, you set the new standard.
 
Sounds so straight forward but the guy is management and has gotten away with this **** for years. I have never seen him suffer any repercussions. I will talk w student and tell her what I will do but our place allows stuff like this to go on. It's intolerable
 
nafcillin said:
Sounds so straight forward but the guy is management and has gotten away with this **** for years. I have never seen him suffer any repercussions. I will talk w student and tell her what I will do but our place allows stuff like this to go on. It's intolerable
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No, you don't talk to the student. At least not now. If you're uncomfortable talking to your DOP, go straight to HR. No one needs to know you're even involved. You can talk to the student later.

You only need to look at Penn State Sandusky debacle.

Don't let that chit go on. Nip it now.
 
How do you get the largest hospital chain in America to formally apologize to you?

Get sexually harassed.

But from experience, if he's doing it to her he is doing it somewhere else as well. Be the bigger person and go directly to HR.
 
nafcillin said:
our place allows stuff like this to go on. It's intolerable
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Stumbled in here off the front page but....

There are laws that cover this..... and with all the sex scandal going around I suspect it will be taken very seriously.
HR will protect your anonymity and the potential for public knowledge will scare the pants off of them.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
lmfao...who the hell grabs a student? Dude got rapist issues. HR? ****, I'd call the Po-lice.
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This is the kind of thing that could get the boss canned and cost the facility a huge lawsuit. Being "management" won't save him. At best he'd be allowed to quit. If it really happened you need to take this girl to HR yourself and discuss it with the person's supervisor. Nobody wants to work with someone capable of anything like this. It sounds like he's a real problem, it's not new, and it sounds like he's escalating. What's next, forcing students to sleep with him for a good evaluation.👎
A much more benign version of this cost a career military officer his job and rank not long ago. Could not have happened to a better guy. He was a real douche. I'm sure it was fun to explain to his wife. That case had a witness though. Perhaps she could goad him into confirming what he did in an email first. It's worth a try.
 
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IlDestriero said:
This is the kind of thing that could get the boss canned and cost the facility a huge lawsuit. Being "management" won't save him. At best he'd be allowed to quit. If it really happened you need to take this girl to HR yourself and discuss it with the person's supervisor. Nobody wants to work with someone capable of anything like this. It sounds like he's a real problem, it's not new, and it sounds like he's escalating. What's next, forcing students to sleep with him for a good evaluation.👎
A much more benign version of this cost a career military officer his job and rank not long ago. Could not have happened to a better guy. He was a real douche. I'm sure it was fun to explain to hood wife. That case had a witness though. Perhaps she could goad him into confirming what he did in an email first. It's worth a try.
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Here is what gets me.... these guys thrive on the idleness of people who know but none of them are delusional enough to think they are above it.... technically speaking this girl has that guy by the balls (no pun intended) what stops her from saying "no a**hole, YOU pass me with honors or I bring this to your boss"

Not that that is the correct action here at all, but it is something that crosses my mind. These guys make themselves very vulnerable (legally) when they do this. I'm surprised it doesn't get turned around more often

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
I am going to hR in the morning on Monday. 😀
 
Unfortunately now you have to act. If this blows over in the future and by chance they find out you knew about it yet did nothing then you're also responsible.

Go to HR.
 
sexual9238261214660.jpg
 
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It seemed more ambiguous in my head bc he is management. Seems obvious now that I write it out. Thanks all will let you know what happens.
 
Absolutley report it to HR and let them sort it out. No one deserves to be treated like that. Sounds like a total creep and who knows what he'll do in the future.
 
They were very professional and took down all the details. Encouraged me to have student come in if she felt comfortable. Didn't give me much more than that. The woman told me it was unacceptable behavior and they would "take action on him"
 
npage148 said:
HR's sole job is to protect the company. Remember that and don't be surprised if it's handled in a way that is only satisfactory to the hospital.
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Pretty sure that will mean dismissal or "allowed to leave" in this case. Sexual harassment is not something they like to screw around with
 
or they ignore it until the student leaves and then fire nafcillin for "performance reasons." From the sounds of it there is very little if any documentation that this guy is a problem so in HR and the companies eyes he's a fine employee with a good history with the company. And it's a student complaining about a manager. It all sounds straight forward until you realized how F-d the business world is
 
npage148 said:
or they move him until the girl leaves then put him back into his normal position and then fire nafcillin for "performance reasons." From the sounds of it there is very little if any documentation that this guy is a problem so in HR and the companies eyes he's a fine employee with a good history with the company.
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Yeah... I would hope not at this point. I was once screwed over by HR protecting middle management at a production job I had after UG. A manager from a neighboring dept horrendously mishandled a situation that wasn't work related to begin with and I ended up getting canned when I told my manager I didnt want that person dealing with me and went to HR to file a complaint. But I would hope that hired professionals like pharmacists are a little more immune than some college grad doing scut work in a production lab.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
Yeah... I would hope not at this point. I was once screwed over by HR protecting middle management at a production job I had after UG. A manager from a neighboring dept horrendously mishandled a situation that wasn't work related to begin with and I ended up getting canned when I told my manager I didnt want that person dealing with me and went to HR to file a complaint. But I would hope that hired professionals like pharmacists are a little more immune than some college grad doing scut work in a production lab.
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Nafcillin should not be at risk of getting let go because she's not the one complaining about this guys bad behavior. She documented the conversation and/or email indicating this mans alleged behavior, covering her own ass if things were to escalate. Whatever happens with the investigation is no longer her concern. HR likely won't do anything if the student decides not to pursue it, though there may be other complaints already.
 
So the student didn't show up to her rotation today. She texted me that she is talking w college of pharmacy
 
And I guess this isn't the first time he groped her....she thinks there are others who had this happen. Could be the beginning of the end for the creeper
 
I know. He is pathetic. I don't care if he sees this or knows its me. I am just so pissed right now and I know I am doing the right thing!!!
 
In a perfect world, I'd have just beaten the piss out of the dude for being a borderline rapist and the problem would have been solved. This is why the 1700s were simpler time. You could just slap a dude with your glove, demand satisfaction, then legally shoot him.

Now you've got office politics, HR (god damn I hate those people with a passion), a ban on simple assault of rapists at work. It's ridiculous.
 
I hate to logical in a situation such as this, but I see everyone just getting worked up by an allegation but very little evidence. At this point, unless there is an witness or past offense, it's one person's word against another.

HR isn't going to make a move based on this allegation alone unless there are reports on file already, or he has other performance issues that warrant using this to remove him. Other wise, the student is only there for a month, nobody knows her or her creditibility, and HR is notoriously lazy, so the whole thing might just get shelved.

OP, you did the right thing, but after doing your duty, you need to insulate yourself in case nothing happens. Don't let give that guy any hint you are the one reported him.
 
This all depends on state law. If its work "at will" then the organization can fire you for any reason as long as its not discrimination. There should be a zero tolerance policy here.
 
VCU07 said:
This all depends on state law. If its work "at will" then the organization can fire you for any reason as long as its not discrimination. There should be a zero tolerance policy here.
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Of course, we can all be laid off at will. But that's not the point. I have seen false accusations used for revenge or political maneuver. Back at pfizer, one employee didn't get along with her boss, so she was being passed over. She then accused him of sexual harassment, removing him as her boss, get an promotion and he couldn't even criticize any of her ideas/proposals during meetings out of fear.

There is no doubt sexual harassment do occur and if it's true then there should be zero tolence. However its also used as a tactics against which there is no defense. There should be justice, not prejudice.
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Of course, we can all be laid off at will. But that's not the point. I have seen false accusations used for revenge or political maneuver. Back at pfizer, one employee didn't get along with her boss, so she was being passed over. She then accused him of sexual harassment, removing him as her boss, get an promotion and he couldn't even criticize any of her ideas/proposals during meetings out of fear.

There is no doubt sexual harassment do occur and if it's true then there should be zero tolence. However its also used as a tactics against which there is no defense. There should be justice, not prejudice.
Click to expand...


Emm I would imagine sexual harrassment claims used as a tactic are very rare and that most times they are legit (they MAY be exaggerated...like someone taking a joke the wrong way because they are super sensitive)
 
pharmasaur said:
Emm I would imagine sexual harrassment claims used as a tactic are very rare and that most times they are legit (they MAY be exaggerated...like someone taking a joke the wrong way because they are super sensitive)
Click to expand...

Based on what data? Id venture a guess that says the perceived rate is heavily influenced by your side of the fence.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
I'm going to guess that this isn't the first HR documentation on said employee.

Doesn't sound like a first timer.

Nafcillin, follow up with HR. You don't need the dirty details, but let them know you're serious and if they get lazy they know you're a witness to their failure of duty.
 
HR will be all over this. They're notoriously slow to follow up with hiring and/or mundane stuff.

But when it comes to drug diversion and sexual harassment, these people become like 1000 year starved vampires at dusk near virgin coed slumber parties.

HR folks are salivating to get to the nitty gritty details of this crap.
 
I asked if they needed any more help and to keep me updated and was told basically they have it from here. College of pharm pulled her out
 
Most HR departments take these type of claims pretty seriously. They will not be able to divulge details, but they will likely seriously investigate the situation.
 
Its Z said:
HR will be all over this. They're notoriously slow to follow up with hiring and/or mundane stuff.

But when it comes to drug diversion and sexual harassment, these people become like 1000 year starved vampires at dusk near virgin coed slumber parties.

HR folks are salivating to get to the nitty gritty details of this crap.
Click to expand...

Hahaha
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Of course, we can all be laid off at will. But that's not the point. I have seen false accusations used for revenge or political maneuver. Back at pfizer, one employee didn't get along with her boss, so she was being passed over. She then accused him of sexual harassment, removing him as her boss, get an promotion and he couldn't even criticize any of her ideas/proposals during meetings out of fear.

There is no doubt sexual harassment do occur and if it's true then there should be zero tolence. However its also used as a tactics against which there is no defense. There should be justice, not prejudice.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. If a person told me someone sexually harassed them at work and the other person strongly deny it....

Who do you believe??? One person is LYING...but who is it?

It could just as easily be the woman trying to get the boss fired b/c she doesn't like him.

There is no way the student can prove she is right. The other guy could deny it 100%. Who says she is automatically right?
 
Student thinks others had it happen and CoP is investigating. I hope others come forward bc there were no witnesses and its his word against hers. She is really embarrassed and feels bad for making a fuss but I told her that no one has the right to grab and then threaten her. It's completely unacceptable!!
 
nafcillin said:
I asked if they needed any more help and to keep me updated and was told basically they have it from here. College of pharm pulled her out
Click to expand...

HR department isn't going to update you on their findings. You've done your part, and that was the best thing you could have done...but it isn't your concern anymore.

I'm actually very close with a male RPh who was accused of sexual harassment. The female admin who accused him was the pharmacy bully, lazy, nonproductive scum of a person. The RPh called her out on this and instructed her to be productive while he was the PIC; but had very little support from management because they were afraid of her. I told him to document EVERYTHING, speak to the director, etc. He didn't listen to me....and when things got uglier, she accused him of sexual harassment.

He said, she said. Well, HR did a thorough investigation and found everything to be inconclusive. Her stories didn't add-up, but they all received final written warnings (including the PM for allowing such an inappropriate work environment to thrive). It was a cop-out on HR's part in my opinion (throwing yellow flag on both teams), but he's at fault too for letting it get to that point.

End of the day, he ended up resigning because he lost total respect for the system/management, and refused to work around her.

Anyways, to the outsiders eyes, he got fired because he was guilty...and the rest of the staff will never know the truth. My point is, you probably won't get the whole story. And I'm not insinuating that she's lying, or that he's not a disgusting pig. Just that whenever you're in this kind of scenario, speak up, do the right thing, and document everything!
 
*will be coming back to this site periodically to get updates on situation at hand*
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
In a perfect world, I'd have just beaten the piss out of the dude for being a borderline rapist and the problem would have been solved. This is why the 1700s were simpler time. You could just slap a dude with your glove, demand satisfaction, then legally shoot him.

Now you've got office politics, HR (god damn I hate those people with a passion), a ban on simple assault of rapists at work. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

And back then, a man could beat his wife with a stick less than the diameter of his thumb, which is said to be the source of the phrase "rule of thumb".

My mother was a hospital volunteer in the early 1970s, and saw an OB backhand a nurse and knock her clear across the nurses' station for not getting him a chart fast enough. 😱 😡 Any doctor who did that now would be arrested! This doctor, BTW, was notorious for doing unnecessary episiotomies and then sewing women up so tight, they couldn't have sex with their husbands afterwards. :wow:
 
pharmasaur said:
Emm I would imagine sexual harrassment claims used as a tactic are very rare and that most times they are legit (they MAY be exaggerated...like someone taking a joke the wrong way because they are super sensitive)
Click to expand...

I never used to believe a woman would so claim sexual harassment when it didn't happen, but I've changed my mind. When you finally meet the kind of woman who would claim harassment to bring person another down, you'll definitely know -- they do exist. Luckily there are not many out there, but I know there are at least a few.
 
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