Emergency&Critical Care

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Artery

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  1. Veterinary Student
Hey guys,
Just wondering if anybody has experience in the field of emergency&critical care vet med? Any insights? I've always been interested in it, and am thinking about pursuing it in vet school (I probably will be in the class of 2015). Kind of an open-ended question...just wanted more info from people who actually have experience in the field!
🙂
 
It's high stress, that's for sure, very high stress, and fast paced. In my humble opinion, you need to be very very good at what you do, because you're making decisions very quickly. Especially if you're a referral hospital, the cases you see need to be dealt with now, not 4 or 5 hours from now after you've called a few colleagues and looked some stuff up. That's just my opinion on it, though.

I never really looked for emergency as a specialization, because since so many of them see only animals when they're really sick and never see them again. I want to be able to follow animals through their health "journey" so to speak. (My current interests are in rehabilitation after traumatic injury and surgery.)
 
Do you think it's possible/wise to specialize in very specific things (including this field) during vet school, so there are more prospects for the future? I'm interested in emergency&critical care, but I am also interested in nutrition and surgery. Ahh...so much to do and learn.
 
I can't really say specifically; that may be a better question for a current vet student.

I would guess it would depend on the school, whether or not it tracks, and what kind of electives you take. Some unique electives may help you get a job, but there is always a need for good outpatient clinicians. Clinicians that are adept at wellness care are very valuable; one of the doctors at the hospital where I work taught Outpatient and Wellness medicine (or whatever it was called, basically care of the healthy animal) at a VTH before coming here and she is just absolutely amazing.
 
It's high stress, that's for sure, very high stress, and fast paced.

Would you mind expanding on this? What makes it higher stress that other branches of vet medicine?

(My current interests are in rehabilitation after traumatic injury and surgery.)

Way back when I started trying to gain experience for vet school I started volunteering in rehab. I went in with a sort of "well... not really interesting, but it's experience" attitude.

Man was I wrong. It is a great environment. You get prolonged contact with the patient and client. You get to be involved with an area of vet medicine that's still gaining exposure. You get a high level of satisfaction after working with an animal for weeks, seeing it leave healthy and capable. (Sure, you also balance that with the animals that never recover.)

Anyway. I went in expecting very little and have come out with a strong interest in orthopedic medicine and rehabilitation. Excellent experience.
 
Would you mind expanding on this? What makes it higher stress that other branches of vet medicine?
I guess I meant that for the average person, it would be high stress--some people thrive on that environment, and for them, it wouldn't be so much stress as challenge. I would see it stressful--just being under pressure constantly to make a decisive, correct diagnosis with very little room for error, and that's not just a sometimes thing, that's what you do for a living. That to me would be stressful.

Way back when I started trying to gain experience for vet school I started volunteering in rehab. I went in with a sort of "well... not really interesting, but it's experience" attitude.

Man was I wrong. It is a great environment. You get prolonged contact with the patient and client. You get to be involved with an area of vet medicine that's still gaining exposure. You get a high level of satisfaction after working with an animal for weeks, seeing it leave healthy and capable. (Sure, you also balance that with the animals that never recover.)
This is EXACTLY why I've wanted to go into PT and rehab for a while now.
 
That's a good idea. I don't mind rehab, and I think it's pretty interesting, but there's just something about having to come up with a quick and accurate diagnosis and think on my feet that is invigorating. Kind of like a challenge that requires you to be very very good at what you do.
Regardless, I suppose I will find out in vet school.
 
I've been an emergency/ICU tech for several years now. I love it. It's fast paced and challenging and there a ton of variety - everything from run-of-the-mill vomiting and diarrhea and hot spots to DKA and status epilepticus and gunshot wounds.

I think that in order to be happy in the ER, you have to be able to shift priorities quickly and be comfortable with ambiguity. It's often necessary to completely drop what you're doing in order to attend to a true emergency. You will have to begin treatment on critical patients with just the information from your physical exam and a few cageside diagnostics. You won't necessarily have anything close to a diagnosis, just an incomplete problem list. You have to have the confidence of your team, quickly gain the confidence of the client (a total stranger), and have strong confidence in your team's abilities.

The lack of long-term client relationships is either a blessing or a disadvantage, depending on your personal preferences.
 
Wow, that's was very helpful and thorough, VeganSoprano. I guess I'm jumping the gun. I have to START vet classes first! :laugh:
I was just interested in what it generally entails...I had a rough idea when I spent some time at the UPenn emergency hospital. But I quite enjoy the fast-paced lifestyle...nothing ever gets old 🙂
 
Oh yes. High stress. I'm a part-time veterinary assistant at an emergency clinic. I love working with the animals, the cases are almost always interesting, clients are usually friendly and understanding. But there are major downsides. Animals die a lot. It never seems like there is enough staff. Its a 24 hour clinic, each shift typically has 2 assistants (sometimes 3, but that is a new development.), 2 CVTs, and 2 veterinarians. My job is usually in-hospital treatments, but because of the unpredictable nature of emergency, everyone has to know how to do everyone else's job. And because an animal's condition can be quite critical, its extremely stressful when you're being yelled at to say, do a quick PCV when you've never done that before and everyone else is tied up with their own thing. Another common stress is when a couple critical cases come in that require immediate attention at 10, then suddenly it's 2:00 and the in-house patients have 10, 11, 12, and 1 o'clock treatments that have yet to be done, and the vet goes "What?! He didn't get his tramadol at noon?! You're a horrible person!" (Not actually that bad, but its how I feel). I honestly feel like I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off sometimes, and when you don't "know it all" it can be very difficult to prioritize what needs to come first.
Keep in mind this is only my experience as an assistant. I'm an anxious, sensitive personality. Many of the problems I've encountered could probably be remedied with better training and more organization-- they're characteristics of the clinic. We tend to be so busy that I don't get to learn how to, for example, do the PCV before IT NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW, and that's frustrating.

All this being said, the veterinarians that I work with really seem to enjoy what they do. They're (usually) good at handling the stress and as far as I can tell are quite happy in emergency medicine. They do, however, work very long hours (scheduled for 12, but are often there much later finishing cases/writing records). I don't know how they do it, but I have all the respect in the world for them for it.
 
I think that in order to be happy in the ER, you have to be able to shift priorities quickly and be comfortable with ambiguity.
The lack of long-term client relationships...
Those two things would probably stress me out as much as the pressure.
 
I worked as a tech in both an Emergency/Specialty center as well as the ICU of a VTH. The above posts definitely nail what it's like to be in ECC. One of my very good friends is doing her ECC residency now, and it's tough. Last week she worked 90 hours. It's a tough life. It's hard as often clients are not expecting the (often VERY large) bill that is associated with ECC. But you do get to help animals in the time when they need it most. It definitely doesn't get old, but it can be stressful -- you have to be able to go from sleepy 2am hanging out with your techs to full on alert, as well as being surrounded by techs that can do the same thing. Shift work is guaranteed, so being able to shift your sleep schedule is a must. One intern at the VTH had to work a 24 hour shift each week -- overnight Sunday (7p-7a) then whatever service they were on for their current rotation.

I loved working as a tech in the ICU, but I'd never specialize in ECC as a vet. I'm going the academic route or Radiology. Not the most exciting, but the easiest one to have a life with! 🙂
 
It's fast paced and challenging and there a ton of variety - everything from run-of-the-mill vomiting and diarrhea and hot spots to DKA and status epilepticus and gunshot wounds.

I think that in order to be happy in the ER, you have to be able to shift priorities quickly and be comfortable with ambiguity.

You won't necessarily have anything close to a diagnosis, just an incomplete problem list. You have to have the confidence of your team, quickly gain the confidence of the client (a total stranger), and have strong confidence in your team's abilities.

The lack of long-term client relationships is either a blessing or a disadvantage, depending on your personal preferences.

I was an assistant in the ER of a specialty referral hospital for about two years, and echo what VS said. You really have to be adaptable and flexible, ready to tackle whatever craziness rolls in the door at 2AM. Think fast, quick decisions with minimal info, take charge of your team. And often the emergencies are not polite enough to come in one at a time; you could have several critical cases circling the drain at the same time.

At our hospital, ER was running 24/7, and during regular hours there were always probably 7-9 docs working in the other services who could jump in and help if needed. But overnight, it was one doc, and usually from about 12A to 6A there would only be two other staff, one tech and one assistant. THAT could get very scary, and honestly I think a lot of times the patients suffered due to poor staffing. The doc could be up to his/her elbows in one dog, barking out orders to the staff who are running around like headless chickens, none of the regular treatments are getting done. A LOT of great docs are not up for that, it just takes a certain personality type to be able to do well in that environment.

That said, the truly crazy shifts are fairly rare. There are a lot of down times, where you can be pretty bored hoping for something exciting to roll in. And most ER's are not just truly for emergencies. We got a lot of transfers from referring vets who close at night and need to send their post-op patients for monitoring. A lot of people who don't have a regular vet, so they come to us for what should be routine care. And all our own in-patients from the other services, who usually we would just be monitoring overnight.

The lack of long-term client relationships can be frustrating. Typically, you are only seeing these people and their animal for that short crisis, usually the worst of times. Often, there are many underlying conditions - obesity, dental dz, skin conditions, etc. - that should be addressed but as the ER vet you walk a fine line. The emergency has to take priority, and you have to be careful not to "bad mouth" an rDVM who *should* have been addressing these issues long ago

I really loved the ER environment, but like someone else mentioned I felt I never really had the training I should have had in order to be more useful. So many hospitals are just really shortsighted - they skimp on training and CE to save money upfront, but it really costs a lot more long term if you've got inefficient poorly-trained staff, not to mention the impact on patient care. ER is not my #1 goal, but I do hope to be able to work PT in that environment eventually.
 
I definitely value all the information you guys have given me. I've been accepted at Tufts, and from what I know (from their orientations), they have a very good emergency&critical care program. Now that I've learned so much from people on here, I'm a bit hesitant. I'm not discouraged...It's more like I want to be able to do a good job at what I choose to pursue, and I don't want to choose something that's way over my head.
On one hand, it would be nice to form a relationship with your clients/the animal over a long period of time (like with rehab as some of you pointed out), but on the other hand it's exciting to be able to help the animal when they need it most (as BVSc2016Hopeful pointed out).
Plus, a lot of people on here seem to agree that what makes the job more stressful than it is, is the fact that there are many things out of your control...things like being understaffed with too many cases to attend to, not having well-trained techs/assistants, dealing with unreasonable clients, etc. Do you think this makes a difference where the hospital is located, i.e. private hospital vs university-owned?
Also, does anybody know if emergency&critical care is part of the curriculum in vet school? If I were to plan on pursuing this field, what's the best way to approach it?
 
Do you think it's possible/wise to specialize in very specific things (including this field) during vet school, so there are more prospects for the future? I'm interested in emergency&critical care, but I am also interested in nutrition and surgery. Ahh...so much to do and learn.

Keep in mind in vet school you will not be specializing to this extent regardless of where you go. Some schools don't track at all others will track but the tracks are generally small animal, large animal, mixed, public health, research related type divisions. So I wouldn't worry about specializing in vet school. I would take time in vet school to investigate different areas you are interested in.
 
Good point, Angelo. I see that you are currently at Tufts...I was sort of was wondering about the Selectives Program there...are you familiar with it?
 
Would you mind expanding on this? What makes it higher stress that other branches of vet medicine?

I worked as a receptionist in an emergency clinic for awhile. A couple of things make it stressful -
-Every single thing you see is, obviously, an "emergency" to some extent - true, some of that is just porcupine quills, but a lot of it are true, "big deal" emergencies. And there are no puppy vaccines or wellness checks or routine spays to balance out the emergencies.
-Client emotions are magnified. People cry, scream, threaten, break down.
-It can be depressing. Some things can't be saved. Also, there can be some "between a rock and a hard place" situations where the clients simply can't pay for something and it's really hard to deal with that.

However, there are also some pretty big upsides to consider:
-The cases are challenging and interesting. That "no vaccines, no spays" can be an upside too, depending on what you like.
-Some people thrive in a fast-paced, "stressful" environment.
-The vets I worked with really seemed to love the emergency work. It can be really rewarding to see something that came in lateral a few days ago walk out of the clinic wagging its tail.

Maybe you could shadow or work in one for awhile and see if the environment is for you? Even if you don't go into emergency work, it's great experience. I loved working at the clinic, and even though I don't plan on specializing in emergency work, I know I will certainly encounter emergency situations, and what I learned there will help me.
 
At UGA, we did have an elective of Emergency Critical Care class. The students came down to the ICU and spent about 4-5 hours watching what we did. They were not allowed to "help" with the animals, at most they would take notes of TPRs or meds given during an intake or crash, usually being shouted from a tech to the intern. So you could get a feel of the ICU. Sometimes, though, all they did was sit and watch us do TPRs on post-op TPLOs or try to avoid getting bit by the v-slot dachshund. Booooring! But sometimes they'd get to see a crash, how a code is run, etc.
 
Also... even if I choose to specialize in this (if it is possible) in vet school, it doesn't mean that I'll be stuck with doing it for the rest of my life. I think it would be a nice experience. As most of you described, the vets working in ICU/ER seem like they really enjoy their jobs. But perhaps they don't plan on doing it for their entire career?
 
Also... even if I choose to specialize in this (if it is possible) in vet school, it doesn't mean that I'll be stuck with doing it for the rest of my life. I think it would be a nice experience. As most of you described, the vets working in ICU/ER seem like they really enjoy their jobs. But perhaps they don't plan on doing it for their entire career?

http://returnofthederelict.blogspot.com/

She's an ER/ICU vet in NC. It goes from when she was in vet school to now she's pregnant and expecting her first kid late fall. She covers a lot of depth/random stuff/good/bad about being an ER vet.
 
Hello, I've worked ER for about 8 years now as a non-cert tech... I haven't really heard anybody mention the fact that a vast majority of ER DVM's are NOT boarded in other words they did not complete residencies. A good portion of ER DVMs have completed rotating internships. Most boarded ECC work for the universities. Of course this is a generalization, I don't have the stats to back it but ask around, pretty sure most would agree... So, this means you don't really have to complete a residency program to work ER. HTH

Oh and BTW- I effin love ER but the night hours and weekends get old really quick.
 
Depending on the hospital, it is also possible to combine ER/CC work with general practice. I work at a hospital that provides primary care along with a 24 hour emergency service and several specialty services. All interns share emergency duty overnight and on weekends. Daytime and evening ER duty is provided by staff doctors 7 days a week. Only one doctor out of a staff of 20+ does pretty much exclusively ER work. The others work 1-3 ER shifts a week and spend the rest of their time on some combination of primary care, surgery, and dentistry, according to their personal preferences and hospital staffing needs. Some of our doctors don't do ER duty at all. All staff doctors participate in the ICU by taking primary case responsibility for one or more hospitalized patients each day. All of our staff doctors are internship trained but none are board certified. We also use the services of a full-time internist and have oncology, cardiology, neurology, and specialty surgery in the hospital one or more days a week and on call 24/7 for emergency consults.

So if you like emergency but don't want to do it full-time, there are options for you to do both emergency and primary care. Another fairly common thing is for a doctor to work mostly at a day practice and pick up ER shifts at an after-hours clinic on weekends.

Partially because we do provide primary care, we do see routine things through the emergency service. If someone is willing to wait to be seen and pay the ER surcharge, we're more than happy to accommodate their need for an "emergency" domestic health certificate or vaccines for boarding.

It's easy to get the idea of ER work as a 24/7 rush of adrenaline and emotion, but really it's not like that - a good thing, because I think that would be really hard to take on a daily basis. It's a *lot* of relatively routine things, like vomiting/diarrhea, UTI's/FLUTD, hot spots, and lacerations. The good news is that the tougher stuff comes less frequently. The bad news is that you can be bored out of your mind one minute and be juggling both a hit-by-car and a heatstroke 10 minutes later!
 
Thanks🙂 I'm not at all discouraged by the aspect of ER/CC now that I've gotten a few insights into it. I'm kind of excited to start! The ER is just such an exciting place... 😀
 
Actually the majority of ACVECC Diplomates are in private practice.

Thx for the input. In your opinion, are there more non-boarded or Boarded ER DVM's? To me it seems there are overwhelmingly more non
 
Yeah, much more. I can't quote any numbers but the majority of emergency vets are not boarded.

A couple of other points ...

There is a big difference between emergency medicine and critical care. In fact, most of the cases seen in an average private emergency clinic are not even emergencies. They are the same type of cases seen in general practice, they just happen to come in after hours. (Same as in human medicine by the way).
 
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