Emigration

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Has anyone looked at emigrating from US to another country? I’ve gotten emails recruiting to New Zealand but never any other countries. As a psychiatrist I’m just wondering how difficult this would be.

New Zealand and Australia are the most common I've seen. I've also gotten emails regarding postions in Germany and Ireland. There are postions that pop up from time to time in Japan working as civilian contractor on US military bases as well. An international placement is definitely something I've had in the back if my mind as an interest. Main concern would be that its hard to make sure a job isn't terrible when you cant really visit and check it out before signing (maybe some places fly you out to visit?). If anyone has any experience with an international position I'd like to hear their thoughts!
 
New Zealand and Australia are the most common I've seen. I've also gotten emails regarding postions in Germany and Ireland. There are postions that pop up from time to time in Japan working as civilian contractor on US military bases as well. An international placement is definitely something I've had in the back if my mind as an interest. Main concern would be that its hard to make sure a job isn't terrible when you cant really visit and check it out before signing (maybe some places fly you out to visit?). If anyone has any experience with an international position I'd like to hear their thoughts!
Does anyone know why New Zealand and Australia recruit so heavily?
 
Does anyone know why New Zealand and Australia recruit so heavily?
We had some folks go to NZ. They need psychiatrists and it's kinda a vacation for Americans. The downside is that they may try to pull a contract swap on you when you get there and force you to work in a less desirable location or clinic. (This happened to both of our folks.) Or maybe the first year goes well and then they wait until the last minute to show you the new contract with the same stuff (new location, change in other terms, etc.)

Be very careful if you go this route and be prepared to go straight back home if they won't play.
 
OP serious question - how do you get on this list? Can you share or PM who is trying to recruit for NZ?

I'm a bit of a doomer. Between covid and the upcoming election, a part of me is paranoid about a full blown mass insurrection in the states in the next six months and wouldn't mind working in NZ for a couple of years after graduation.
 
OP serious question - how do you get on this list? Can you share or PM who is trying to recruit for NZ?

I'm a bit of a doomer. Between covid and the upcoming election, a part of me is paranoid about a full blown mass insurrection in the states in the next six months and wouldn't mind working in NZ for a couple of years after graduation.
I will send you a PM if I can dig up some emails I’ve gotten many in the past. I’m sure if you google it you’ll find something.
 
We had some folks go to NZ. They need psychiatrists and it's kinda a vacation for Americans. The downside is that they may try to pull a contract swap on you when you get there and force you to work in a less desirable location or clinic. (This happened to both of our folks.) Or maybe the first year goes well and then they wait until the last minute to show you the new contract with the same stuff (new location, change in other terms, etc.)

Be very careful if you go this route and be prepared to go straight back home if they won't play.
Do you know what the workload was like?
 
Do you know what the workload was like?
In their specific cases rather light overall IIRC. It's been long enough that I don't remember what all of their reservations were exactly but I think part of it was that the hiring agency wanted to put them in CMHC positions which would not have been light and chill.
 
OP serious question - how do you get on this list? Can you share or PM who is trying to recruit for NZ?

I'm a bit of a doomer. Between covid and the upcoming election, a part of me is paranoid about a full blown mass insurrection in the states in the next six months and wouldn't mind working in NZ for a couple of years after graduation.

If you do a quick google search, plenty of recruitment firms have job postings for NZ. This firm's website has pretty detailed job descriptions, plus the salary. In short, the pay will be much lower but the patient load also seems much lower. Cost of living is also higher.

The NZ government has a list of job ad sites. The biggest one for healthcare job is kiwihealthjobs.com
 
Interest in this topic may have cooled somewhat since the election and whatnot, but I was dropping by the forums and wanted to chime in - I moved to New Zealand to practice in March 2020 and have been quite pleased with the experience. I work in a city on an adult inpatient unit. I had never been to New Zealand before and had my interview via Zoom. While I know not everyone who moves internationally ends up with what they want, I was lucky enough to obtain exactly the job I asked for in the place I requested. I moved for the quality of life and various personal reasons I wanted to depart the US, and those things have both held out positively (more so than I ever realized, having moved just before COVID became big) - obviously one doesn't move here for the money, which is admittedly not as good but was worth the tradeoff for me. Psychiatric skills of diagnosis and treatment transfer fairly seamlessly, though there is lots of ongoing learning about Maori and Pasifika cultures and how to integrate that understanding into psychiatric practice. There is an overall different pace and style of work; inpatient stays are longer, more time is spent with each patient, family is more involved in general, and the daily volume is generally lower. Naturally the legal system is different but shares plenty in common with various mental health laws in the US. There are a handful of meds I miss that aren't available here (diphenhydramine! trazodone!), and a few drugs I have become quite fond of which aren't used in the states (amisulpride and zuclopenthixol). Overall the formulary is totally serviceable and I wasn't into prescribing expensive new drugs on inpatient units anyway.

I would also just float out there that I'm a DO who never took the USMLE (did an ACGME residency + fellowship) and had no difficulty transferring my qualifications, in case that is relevant to anyone.
 
Interest in this topic may have cooled somewhat since the election and whatnot, but I was dropping by the forums and wanted to chime in - I moved to New Zealand to practice in March 2020 and have been quite pleased with the experience. I work in a city on an adult inpatient unit. I had never been to New Zealand before and had my interview via Zoom. While I know not everyone who moves internationally ends up with what they want, I was lucky enough to obtain exactly the job I asked for in the place I requested. I moved for the quality of life and various personal reasons I wanted to depart the US, and those things have both held out positively (more so than I ever realized, having moved just before COVID became big) - obviously one doesn't move here for the money, which is admittedly not as good but was worth the tradeoff for me. Psychiatric skills of diagnosis and treatment transfer fairly seamlessly, though there is lots of ongoing learning about Maori and Pasifika cultures and how to integrate that understanding into psychiatric practice. There is an overall different pace and style of work; inpatient stays are longer, more time is spent with each patient, family is more involved in general, and the daily volume is generally lower. Naturally the legal system is different but shares plenty in common with various mental health laws in the US. There are a handful of meds I miss that aren't available here (diphenhydramine! trazodone!), and a few drugs I have become quite fond of which aren't used in the states (amisulpride and zuclopenthixol). Overall the formulary is totally serviceable and I wasn't into prescribing expensive new drugs on inpatient units anyway.

I would also just float out there that I'm a DO who never took the USMLE (did an ACGME residency + fellowship) and had no difficulty transferring my qualifications, in case that is relevant to anyone.

This is a 4D chess move. Lower pay in return for normal living? Yes please.
 
Interest in this topic may have cooled somewhat since the election and whatnot, but I was dropping by the forums and wanted to chime in - I moved to New Zealand to practice in March 2020 and have been quite pleased with the experience. I work in a city on an adult inpatient unit. I had never been to New Zealand before and had my interview via Zoom. While I know not everyone who moves internationally ends up with what they want, I was lucky enough to obtain exactly the job I asked for in the place I requested. I moved for the quality of life and various personal reasons I wanted to depart the US, and those things have both held out positively (more so than I ever realized, having moved just before COVID became big) - obviously one doesn't move here for the money, which is admittedly not as good but was worth the tradeoff for me. Psychiatric skills of diagnosis and treatment transfer fairly seamlessly, though there is lots of ongoing learning about Maori and Pasifika cultures and how to integrate that understanding into psychiatric practice. There is an overall different pace and style of work; inpatient stays are longer, more time is spent with each patient, family is more involved in general, and the daily volume is generally lower. Naturally the legal system is different but shares plenty in common with various mental health laws in the US. There are a handful of meds I miss that aren't available here (diphenhydramine! trazodone!), and a few drugs I have become quite fond of which aren't used in the states (amisulpride and zuclopenthixol). Overall the formulary is totally serviceable and I wasn't into prescribing expensive new drugs on inpatient units anyway.

I would also just float out there that I'm a DO who never took the USMLE (did an ACGME residency + fellowship) and had no difficulty transferring my qualifications, in case that is relevant to anyone.
Thanks for posting. Any idea what the outpatient world is like?
 
Thanks for posting. Any idea what the outpatient world is like?

I have a friend who also moved from the US and works in a community mental health setting near me - if you come over here to start in outpatient you would most likely be working in the community for a DHB (district health board), as most people I know used employer sponsorship to get a visa. There are private practice psychiatrists around who I've bumped into here and there, primarily taking cash only. In the DHB's you get assigned to a team with case managers/OT's/psychologists and such, reminiscent of a lot of public psychiatry in the US. The patients who end up seen by DHB's tend to be quite ill and under-resourced - severe bipolar, schizophrenia, character pathology, PTSD. Some teams are better-staffed than others; my friend works in a reasonably well-staffed place (meaning there are enough case managers for the volume of intakes they have). I believe my colleague sees around 6-8 patients per day, and much like on the inpatient unit, these tend to be longer and more comprehensive engagements with patients. He came from a high-volume intense setting in the states and, like me, is planning to stay a long while.

There are registrars (residents) in the system where I work, who work alongside teams in the community and on inpatient teams. I usually have a med student on my inpatient team. If you're near a med school there are teaching opportunities and research, and some people get into that. I have 1/2 day per week to attend peer supervision group, their version of grand rounds, or work on papers and other "professional development." PTO here under a permanent contract is robust and CME funds are substantial as most people would be going overseas for conferences under normal circumstances.
 
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Has anyone looked at emigrating from US to another country? I’ve gotten emails recruiting to New Zealand but never any other countries. As a psychiatrist I’m just wondering how difficult this would be.
Canada needs five years of training, NZ and Australia are good to go afaik
 
Canada needs five years of training, NZ and Australia are good to go afaik

NZ is slightly easier to get licensure than Australia from what I'm told, but both are doable. The thing that trips up most American docs in NZ is a longer child experience requirement (they do 6 months in their training). If you're doing a locums gig on a locums license they let this slide, but it becomes relevant if you go for a permanent position and licensure. I've had to do some extra child here to compensate which has been mostly no big deal - they arranged the experience and I keep all my pay/benefits while I'm completing it. If you've done a child fellowship or any elective/post-training work with kids, that could keep you from having to do extra. Also, while I believe there is a pathway to get to NZ before you take your boards with some restrictions, it's far preferable to be already board certified rather than just board eligible so you can get full and unrestricted practice as a specialist.
 
I have a friend who also moved from the US and works in a community mental health setting near me - if you come over here to start in outpatient you would most likely be working in the community for a DHB (district health board), as most people I know used employer sponsorship to get a visa. There are private practice psychiatrists around who I've bumped into here and there, primarily taking cash only. In the DHB's you get assigned to a team with case managers/OT's/psychologists and such, reminiscent of a lot of public psychiatry in the US. The patients who end up seen by DHB's tend to be quite ill and under-resourced - severe bipolar, schizophrenia, character pathology, PTSD. Some teams are better-staffed than others; my friend works in a reasonably well-staffed place (meaning there are enough case managers for the volume of intakes they have). I believe my colleague sees around 6-8 patients per day, and much like on the inpatient unit, these tend to be longer and more comprehensive engagements with patients. He came from a high-volume intense setting in the states and, like me, is planning to stay a long while.

There are registrars (residents) in the system where I work, who work alongside teams in the community and on inpatient teams. I usually have a med student on my inpatient team. If you're near a med school there are teaching opportunities and research, and some people get into that. I have 1/2 day per week to attend peer supervision group, their version of grand rounds, or work on papers and other "professional development." PTO here under a permanent contract is robust and CME funds are substantial as most people would be going overseas for conferences under normal circumstances.
Wow this sounds so much better than the us
 
Interest in this topic may have cooled somewhat since the election and whatnot, but I was dropping by the forums and wanted to chime in - I moved to New Zealand to practice in March 2020 and have been quite pleased with the experience. I work in a city on an adult inpatient unit. I had never been to New Zealand before and had my interview via Zoom. While I know not everyone who moves internationally ends up with what they want, I was lucky enough to obtain exactly the job I asked for in the place I requested. I moved for the quality of life and various personal reasons I wanted to depart the US, and those things have both held out positively (more so than I ever realized, having moved just before COVID became big) - obviously one doesn't move here for the money, which is admittedly not as good but was worth the tradeoff for me. Psychiatric skills of diagnosis and treatment transfer fairly seamlessly, though there is lots of ongoing learning about Maori and Pasifika cultures and how to integrate that understanding into psychiatric practice. There is an overall different pace and style of work; inpatient stays are longer, more time is spent with each patient, family is more involved in general, and the daily volume is generally lower. Naturally the legal system is different but shares plenty in common with various mental health laws in the US. There are a handful of meds I miss that aren't available here (diphenhydramine! trazodone!), and a few drugs I have become quite fond of which aren't used in the states (amisulpride and zuclopenthixol). Overall the formulary is totally serviceable and I wasn't into prescribing expensive new drugs on inpatient units anyway.

I would also just float out there that I'm a DO who never took the USMLE (did an ACGME residency + fellowship) and had no difficulty transferring my qualifications, in case that is relevant to anyone.
This is exactly why I am doing a C&A fellowship- it has the best gtfo potential with regard to international practice
 
Any info on civilian military jobs (psychiatry obv) in South Korea or Japan?
 
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