So, I'm a rising freshman. I am wondering if I should work to become a CNA or EMT. Basically, we have a program at my school. If you get in, they give you an emt education throughout the school year. However, I can also take courses at my community college and become a CNA. Which one should I become? Not sure if it is advantageous to become both.
EMT vs. CNA? What should you become
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EMT but I am biased.
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I don't think there's anything better looking than CNA in hospice. I have done neither so I don't think I am biased, but it is also still opinion. In the long run it probably won't make a difference, but you will receive much more patient interaction as a CNA.
could you become both?
could you become both?
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Do what you want to do. EMS and nursing home/hospice are very different things. Look into what the job opportunities are in your area and what the hours would be. Decide what you want to be doing with your time and look at what both jobs entail.
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You could, but I don't think it would be worth it unless you could work a year full-time to each one.
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This wasn't an option, but I recommend if you can handle it, becoming a scribe. Pre-med EMTs are a dime a dozen and most have an overinflated sense of self. I've literally seen on numerous occasions EMTs trying to diagnose drunk college students. I digress though, scribing would beneficial because you gain valuable clinical experience working alongside a physician and become familiar with medical language. If you are really good, you can get a killer rec letter too. There is an article written by an associate dean of CCLCM on US World News which specifically highlights the value of scribing as useful and beneficial for medical school.
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Campus EMS showing up at your frat party is not real EMS by any stretch of the imagination and does not reflect what EMT work is like anywhere outside of the bubble.
They are different experiences. EMT is proving patient care, scribing is observing and documenting. Scribe is by far the most common premed clinical experience that I have encountered, so I don't think you'll stand out from all the lowly EMTs. Both experiences are what the individual makes of them.
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I disagree with Scribing being more common than EMTs. Almost every undergrad institution has some EMT or an affiliated link program. I think SDN biasses the sample with the amount of scribes you see on here, but in my experience I have run into far more pre-med EMTs. I would venture to guess that there are far more EMTs being taught than scribes being trained.
Scribing is still relatively novel in the medical landscape. You can scribe from the ER to a Dermatology clinic and many other specialties in between. There is nothing wrong with being an EMT, but that experience will not bring you closer to being with physicians and having the ability to pick their brain (at appropriate times of course). Speaking from my own experience, I gained a lot of valuable insight that I do not think I would have been exposed to unless I was a medical student.
In prior books I have read written by authors mentioning their medical school journeys, I found that a lot of profound cases/experiences they had encountered had been things I had already seen to differing extents as a scribe. This in no way means you know more or are ready for anything, because you are not, but it's humbling to be in the presence of life saving interventions, and to play at least a small small small small role (documentation) in their care.
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I think this is more of a regional/size of the institution thing. I for one have never visited a university with an internal EMT program. For that reason, I think Scribing may be more common. There may be no discernible difference in popularity though.
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Ahh that's fair enough. I was speaking to institutions across my state. I know it's offered at almost every local community college (as I keep somehow getting targeted ads for them haha)
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I have been an EMT for about 3 years, mostly throughout undergrad. Before becoming an EMT you need to make sure that you will actually be able to use your license, if not, don't do it! I was able to get over 1500 clinical volunteering out of my EMT license, but I was lucky. However, as stated above, scribing will get you more interaction with patients and physicians and you will learn more medicine, as long as you are curious. just my .02
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Maybe I should clarify because I think I may have been confused, I have never been to an institution that had an on-campus EMS program that pre-med students could work for, simply because they are not needed on campuses in my region. Many institutions and community colleges in my state have EMT programs for careers though.
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Interesting, I find that they are quite common in my state and a couple neighboring states from my college football weekend visits. I never had any complaints with EMTs who were trained in programs you alluded to. In all honesty though, what do you expect when you give power to some 19 year-old college kid??? I think the universities that allow pre-med undergrad EMTs are *****ic for this very reason, they do more harm than good.
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Some of the adcom posters flat don't consider EMT experience a positive
Soooo, how do you become a scribe? Sorry, for the inecessant questions.
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I think it depends. If I had to choose I would say CNA. I'm an EMT and am very lucky because I live in a rural area, so all of our trucks are one paramedic and one EMT. So we rarely do transfer, we do all the 911 calls so car crashes, cardiac arrests, resp failure, suicides, strokes, psychs everything. We're the only ALS service. In some areas you'll be a EMT for 10 years and pretty much only do transfers. While I think it's fair that some adcoms wouldn't think of just being an EMT as positive because the fact of the matter is most EMTs essentially work for a taxi service. However if you get a good gig like fire, ER tech, or my situation I think you can 100% use it as a positive experience. I don't think most premeds have to deal with people everyday who are having the worst day of their life. I think if done right it can be a very unique experience.
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My best advice would be to google nearby hospitals and/or scribe programs to see if any are near your school. Depending on where you're located and access to a car it might be something better to start even next summer.
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I would look at the volunteer/job opportunities around home and where you go to school. I was advised as an undergrad to go for the CNA instead of EMT as there would be more jobs. I got my EMT license anyways, and while I have never actually worked in the field using my license, it has opened a lot of opportunities to me. For example, my EMT license allows me to volunteer at a local clinic essentially as a MA (within an EMT scope of practice, of course) which has been a fantastic position and is a more hands on experience than one would get as a scribe. Alternatively, someone with an EMT license could just work with a company like AMR or as an ER tech, but all of these would be gap year jobs as they would require a significant time commitment.
I have also been working as a scribe at an outpatient practice for the last year. This is a very different experience than I've had using my EMT license, and as others has mentioned, exposes you to documentation and lots of interesting cases. It is a fantastic way to get a sense of the day to day job of a physician, as well as to become well acquainted with whatever specialty you are working in. I think it is also a great opportunity to make connections with doctors. Depending on the personality of the physician you work with, he or she may offer to let you shadow or eventually write you a stellar letter of recommendation. Working as a scribe job may also be more flexible and something you could do during the academic year, depending on whether there are positions at nearby hospitals.
The takeaway from all this should be that getting an EMT license/CNA certification/ working as a scribe all offer different, but valuable, experiences. Take into consideration your personality, your interests, and the opportunities around you when making a decision on what to pursue!
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why dont they consider emt experience positive?
yea, I gotta do next summer. I just visited family and did random fun volunteering camps. I can't really get anything now because I have no experience/resume from college to back myself up as qualified.
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Glorified cab driver.
It doesn't engage with the day-to-day of what you'll see as a doc, I think.
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Please enlighten?
Not all experiences are the same, EMT can be an excellent EC that shows commitment to the community and an opportunity to do a lot of good.
As far as how common it is, anecdotal as it may be I think my class has ~4 EMTs and at least 30 former scribes.
@PhiGamDoc Please provide me with any evidence you have to support the claim that college EMS is more harmful than good and/or that their age has anything to do with it. Also, if you think EMT class is "Giving 19 year old kids power" you have clearly not experienced field EMS. We are the lowest of the low, even when we do our best.
To the topic at hand, EMT will offer the opportunity to assess and interview patients and learn how to handle basic medical problems and assist paramedics. This can be a huge help when it comes time for med school with the patient care experience under your belt. Scribe is another great choice for different reasons. You'll see different things and do much less hands on. Since OP is discussing CNA as an option, I think its important to also realize that CNA can lead to lots of jobs, so seek out the experience that you think will be of best interest to you.
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You clearly have never been around a college campus during the late evening hours. One example that stands out was watching a fellow student puke outside a food place (into the trash with no assistance and friends around), walk in there and order some food. They sat down and all of a sudden two student EMS kids came to the table and more or less forcibly removed him and put him on their ambulance. It was a total violation of rights and definitely led to a sky high medical bill on that student when he was discharged. Sure the student was drunk, but from my view in line he was making no scene and sitting at a table talking to his friends. Stories like this were not uncommon. I highly doubt an adult EMT with real experience outside a college campus would have done what they did.
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Rather than read the posts of premeds playing the game at a similar level, how about actually go to the source? There are 3 very active posters here who work on adcoms, read their stuff.
From memory, neither Goro nor Gyngyn likes EMT work, search their posts for "EMT"
Its also cookie-cutter, and unless you have baller stats, you need to stand out in your ECs
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It all depends, do you like wiping butts? Then CNA is the right way to go.
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Neither. Spend your time getting the best possible grades and MCAT score. You can get all the clinical experience you need via clinical volunteering, which can be done once a week and would thus have minimal impact on your grades.
I have seen too many people get in over their heads with entry-level pre-clinical jobs, and as a result, they destroyed their chances of getting into medical school. Two of them are still "stuck" in their original jobs that they did in college (and are thus underemployed). The money you make with these jobs is pocket change compared to future earnings.
Both EMT and CNA require a significant commitment, but because they are so commonplace, they won't set you apart.
I have seen too many people get in over their heads with entry-level pre-clinical jobs, and as a result, they destroyed their chances of getting into medical school. Two of them are still "stuck" in their original jobs that they did in college (and are thus underemployed). The money you make with these jobs is pocket change compared to future earnings.
Both EMT and CNA require a significant commitment, but because they are so commonplace, they won't set you apart.
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What if you are an ER Tech?
isn't that a full time job?
well, my school has an emt program where you do the hours during school time, one night shift per like two weeks. So, it's pretty manageable. I was thinking to become a cna or scribe during summer to have interaction with patients.... or cna. CNA certs seem relatively easy to do over the summer. I'm also interested with being near old or people that are getting older ya know, they got some wisdom they an distill to me. Does this plan sound good.
bruh, thats what drove me away initially, I don't exactly want to give old people showers, but I gotta do it thought if it gives optimal patient interaction. You get use to it I guess.
what would you suggest to do then? cna work?
how do you be an er tech?
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@tigertank who ever heard of @Goro anyway! I don't trust cats. 😛
On a serious note, I understand and agree that the EMT who does nothing but transports and BS related to campus EMS is not worth the ink printed on their EMT card with regard to admissions. EMT experience can be rewarding, postive, and helpful, however. I think it's short sighted to direct people away from the field when a genuine interest in EMS coupled with devotion to actually working can give excellent clinical experience and exposure to all types of socioeconomic environments.
The argument that EMT is common so someone should pick scribe makes no sense to me whatsoever, because the absolute most premed thing in the world to do is be a scribe. Not to take from scribe work whatsoever, it is valuable and a good option. In both fields, you get out what you put in. I can say with certainty that my EMS experience helped me get into medical school and has been a tremendous help seeing patients and working clinically from day one.
I don't want to derail further. @PhiGamDoc I'm sorry you had that experience, but that is a poor reflection of the field and the people working in it without a doubt. This is an exception, but that doesn't make it excusable. In some situations implied consent is used based on level of consciousness, but it sounds like what you witnessed was overzealous incompetence. Plenty of universities have exceptional in-house EMS.
Anyway, carry on!
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On a serious note, I understand and agree that the EMT who does nothing but transports and BS related to campus EMS is not worth the ink printed on their EMT card with regard to admissions. EMT experience can be rewarding, postive, and helpful, however. I think it's short sighted to direct people away from the field when a genuine interest in EMS coupled with devotion to actually working can give excellent clinical experience and exposure to all types of socioeconomic environments.
The argument that EMT is common so someone should pick scribe makes no sense to me whatsoever, because the absolute most premed thing in the world to do is be a scribe. Not to take from scribe work whatsoever, it is valuable and a good option. In both fields, you get out what you put in. I can say with certainty that my EMS experience helped me get into medical school and has been a tremendous help seeing patients and working clinically from day one.
I don't want to derail further. @PhiGamDoc I'm sorry you had that experience, but that is a poor reflection of the field and the people working in it without a doubt. This is an exception, but that doesn't make it excusable. In some situations implied consent is used based on level of consciousness, but it sounds like what you witnessed was overzealous incompetence. Plenty of universities have exceptional in-house EMS.
Anyway, carry on!
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These are two very different roles and you should look into them more before making a decision. Which one you should do is a question that's very individual because each person will have his or her own interests. Being a CNA at a nursing home is a lot of hard work - you have to do a lot of scut work like bathing the patients and taking them to the bathroom. You might have to clean up accidents that patients inevitably have. Being an EMT, on the other hand, is very fast-paced. You might not have to do anything for hours on end during a shift but then a call will come in and you'll be rushing to the scene. You'll have to assess the situation and decide on an appropriate course of action. Very different roles.
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Just for the record: any EMT or medic would have forcibly removed him. At least in my area, if 911 is called to anyone who is drunk and could be deemed in danger they HAVE to go because they can't make their own decisions to sign a refusal of care form. We went to a call where a lady literally fell and scraped her knee while she was drunk and our supervisor made us take her in. CYA I guess.
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Some people find jobs for them super easily. Other times it's not so easy. All depends on your area, just apply and hope. ER Tech in my opinion is the absolute best paid clinical experience for a premed if they can get it.
EDIT: I should also state that being and EMT or CNA could very well not improve your chances at all of medical school admissions. Being an EMT is something you should only do if you WANT to do it. I had a desire to be in EMS, I didn't do it for applications. I could have volunteered for free doing something WAY easier and it would be seen as equal or better. However, I would definitely do it all again. Not everything you do has to be about what an adcom will think about it, do what you like to do just be smart about it.
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Where the hell did all this trash-talking of EMS experience come from?
Just to get an Advanced EMT license, you need to rack up hundreds of clinical hours in the form of ambulances ride-outs and ER shifts. During those hours, I've bagged and done compressions on patients that have died in front of me. I've had to get IVs on patients that were so maniac they had to be handcuffed to the bed. On campus, I've treated patients in anaphylaxis, patients undergoing seizures, and patients throwing up their insides because of food poisoning. If you have an intoxicated patient who poses a present danger to himself and does not have the capacity to refuse, then any medical provider has a *responsibility* to get him to the hospital. That is literally the textbook example for assessing patient capacity.
It kinda sucks to dedicate a good portion of your life on something you're passionate about only for someone on SDN to call you a "glorified cab driver" or a "dime-a-dozen premed EMT."
Just to get an Advanced EMT license, you need to rack up hundreds of clinical hours in the form of ambulances ride-outs and ER shifts. During those hours, I've bagged and done compressions on patients that have died in front of me. I've had to get IVs on patients that were so maniac they had to be handcuffed to the bed. On campus, I've treated patients in anaphylaxis, patients undergoing seizures, and patients throwing up their insides because of food poisoning. If you have an intoxicated patient who poses a present danger to himself and does not have the capacity to refuse, then any medical provider has a *responsibility* to get him to the hospital. That is literally the textbook example for assessing patient capacity.
It kinda sucks to dedicate a good portion of your life on something you're passionate about only for someone on SDN to call you a "glorified cab driver" or a "dime-a-dozen premed EMT."
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No need to get offended, I was specifically referring to a program at many universities around me that allow for a more or less, student run EMS/EMT program. I have worked with trained EMTs and never said anything disparaging about the great work they do. Instead of cherry picking lines, read the context of the posts (which btw other ADCOMs on here have similar sentiments).
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I volunteer on my university's student-run EMS service. That's exactly what I'm referring to. You do realize that you need have the same EMT license to work for a campus service right? You need to have X classroom hours, X clinical hours, and you need to pass written and skills assessments to receive state and national certification. You and a few other commenters here seem to have an incorrect view of what EMS experience is. I'm cherry picking the disparaging comments only, because I want to make sure you don't use that language in the future and that you don't discourage a curious freshman from pursuing EMS just because of your false preconceptions.
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Well maybe your experience is unique, but I'm not going to back down from my statements before because it is the truth from my own experience. I'm not the first to convey this sentiment towards EMTs, and there is a good reason why plenty on here feel the same as I do, including ADCOMs. At the end of the day you are free to believe what you believe and share your experiences, but it does not convey any more truth than what I have said either.
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If this is something you genuinely want to do, then by all means do it. Just as long as it doesn't affect your grades or MCAT preparation negatively. Don't forget you will have the rest of your life as a physician to be near older people so you can get their wisdom.
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Even more important than CYA or being unable to make decisions appropriately is the fact that it's downright illegal for providers to leave patient in that condition... it has nothing to do with the patient's rights at that point. When unable to answer questions appropriately, a patient has more or less lost their own rights, and it falls to medical services or police to make their choices for them... that's simply how the system works.
Those disparaging EMS would do well to learn more about it before jumping to conclusions.
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+1 for using CYA, a very underrated acronym.
