EMT vs Shadowing

[tvanhens]

OK so I have been in this endless internal debate as to how I should approach gaining clinical experience while in college. On the one hand there's EMT work, where I would be able to have first hand experience with trauma and extremely basic medicine. On the other hand, there's hospital volunteering which could eventually give me the opportunity to shadow a doctor, which would give me a better idea of what it means to be a doctor, but there's no guarantee that I will be able to shadow.

Any insights?

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[armybound]

I've learned a lot more about the life of a physician through my EMT work than I ever did as a volunteer.

On the other hand, I know more about the life of an EMT through dating a doctor's daughter than I ever did as an EMT..

so you might want to look at that route 😛

but really, I say the most practical answer is to do both. Having hands-on experience is great to see if you can actually stand seeing patients, but volunteering/shadowing is nice so you can see what a doctor's day is all about.. plus you can see different areas of medicine than just emergency medicine.

 

[Blade28]

but really, I say the most practical answer is to do both. Having hands-on experience is great to see if you can actually stand seeing patients, but volunteering/shadowing is nice so you can see what a doctor's day is all about.. plus you can see different areas of medicine than just emergency medicine.

I totally agree.

If it works with your schedule, do both.

 

[tvanhens]

I totally agree.

If it works with your schedule, do both.

What opportunities are there, typically, for volunteering in a hospital. For example, when I call, what should I ask about?

 

[bluesTank]

There have been like 4 threads about being an EMT today alone...weird

 

[Omni]

Do both. EMT gives you clinical experience, whereas shadowing different types of doctors shows you different fields and how they work. Do both.

 

[Maxprime]

If you must choose one, I have always been told that shadowing is better for the admissions process - no need to argue about whether or not it should be.

 

[ViolinCello]

There have been like 4 threads about being an EMT today alone...weird

It's almost becoming like the "what are my chances" threads....It just seems like people forget the point of this is to know what you are getting yourself into before you go down the road of medical school. I have a friend who got into one of those BA/MD programs out of highschool(mom/dad are doctors), and then got to college and decided that the sight of blood in the OR was more than he could stand...needless to say he is an architect now, happy and successful.

 

[armybound]

What opportunities are there, typically, for volunteering in a hospital. For example, when I call, what should I ask about?

I'd imagine 75%+ of pre-med volunteers try to get in at the Emergency Department. I'd imagine most hospitals will allow volunteers in their ED. a lot of other places will allow you to work information/help desks, but that's obviously not clinical.

I'm lucky to be so close to Vanderbilt, where the options are almost limitless. There are people in the Children's Hospital who play with kids all day and there are people in the burn unit. I'm personally in the PACU. it really depends on your hospital.

 

[Auron]

The hospital near me does not let anyone shadow their doctors due to HIPAA. I've shadowed 5 different doctors so far at another place but it's irritating this hospital won't allow pre-meds to shadow....

 

[armybound]

The hospital near me does not let anyone shadow their doctors due to HIPAA. I've shadowed 5 different doctors so far at another place but it's irritating this hospital won't allow pre-meds to shadow....

they could just give you the 5 minute lesson on HIPAA and make you sign a confidentiality agreement like they do with their employees.

 

[xrevision]

You should shadow a doctor to get a reasonable idea of what a doctor does throughout his day (hint: he doesn't deal with patients all day). EMT on the other hand is a good way to get patient contact.

 

[Blade28]

I'd imagine 75%+ of pre-med volunteers try to get in at the Emergency Department. I'd imagine most hospitals will allow volunteers in their ED. a lot of other places will allow you to work information/help desks, but that's obviously not clinical.

I see pre-meds at our county hospital (down in the trauma bay) all the time.

And then what kills me is everytime something interesting comes in, I ask them to come look/help and they all shy away. 😕

Man they're missing out!

 

[TheRealMD]

I see pre-meds at our county hospital (down in the trauma bay) all the time.

And then what kills me is everytime something interesting comes in, I ask them to come look/help and they all shy away. 😕

Man they're missing out!

They probably don't want to kill anyone. 🙄

That or the volunteer department doesn't really set clear rules on what volunteers can and cannot do.

 

[Blade28]

They probably don't want to kill anyone. 🙄

That or the volunteer department doesn't really set clear rules on what volunteers can and cannot do.

Possibly. But I've seen some of them "do" stuff before. I think they're just scared? Or shy?

I take it back, one time this kid did help me with a chest tube. But that was just once! I've probably offered to show people around and get them more involved maybe 30-40 times and gotten a mumbled "uh, no thanks" each time. 😕

 

[191159]

Possibly. But I've seen some of them "do" stuff before. I think they're just scared? Or shy?

I take it back, one time this kid did help me with a chest tube. But that was just once! I've probably offered to show people around and get them more involved maybe 30-40 times and gotten a mumbled "uh, no thanks" each time. 😕

I wish you worked at my hospital. Honestly your volunteers are idiots if they're passing up opportunities like that. The doctors at my ER so closed off. Blah.

 

[crazysn]

well if you already got your certification as an EMT, you might as well work. It should give you good experience in the field. Although I think that shadowing a doctor, you can learn so much as how a physician thinks, how they interact with patient, how they diagnose and prescribe, etc... As an EMT, i know that you will be more involved in stablizing and transporting patients. But, I think that as long as you are committed to either one, it will not matter to med school because they do not expect you "to be a doctor" already, rather the commitment and the fact that you wanted to be involved in health care

good luck

 

[Blade28]

I wish you worked at my hospital. Honestly your volunteers are idiots if they're passing up opportunities like that. The doctors at my ER so closed off. Blah.

Yeah I get that a lot.

I wish I had more motivated, assertive pre-meds here.

 

[armybound]

I see pre-meds at our county hospital (down in the trauma bay) all the time.

And then what kills me is everytime something interesting comes in, I ask them to come look/help and they all shy away. 😕

Man they're missing out!

they probably went into shock that a doctor actually spoke to them.

I stand around in the PACU a lot just watching what doctors are doing, but they never offer to let me come watch or explain anything to me. like this vascular resident was looking at what I can only assume was an MRI with contrast and it was cool as all get out, but I had very little idea what was going on. he knew I was looking at it with him but he never really acknowledged my presence.

 

[RapplixGmed]

Possibly. But I've seen some of them "do" stuff before. I think they're just scared? Or shy?

I take it back, one time this kid did help me with a chest tube. But that was just once! I've probably offered to show people around and get them more involved maybe 30-40 times and gotten a mumbled "uh, no thanks" each time. 😕

Wow you have no idea how excited I would be about helping out with a chest tube. It seems like when I volunteer at the hospital, I get stuck doing stupid stuff so I eventually stopped and volunteered as an EMT instead. Shadowing is still cool though.

One time, a nurse grabbed me and taught me how to do butterflies and IVs on some patients. That was really fun until I realized that its probably illegal

 

[notdeadyet]

The hospital near me does not let anyone shadow their doctors due to HIPAA. I've shadowed 5 different doctors so far at another place but it's irritating this hospital won't allow pre-meds to shadow....

Try free clinics. Unless you live way out in the sticks, there's probably one near by. If you live in a particularly conservative area, sometimes finding the free clinics takes some doing.

Free clinics have a lot of opportunity for shadowing and also volunteering in the clinic itself. This is a great, often overlooked route for premeds. Many clinics your job is to take patient vitals, walk them into the room and then find out the patient's chief complaint, basic medical history, etc. You then present to the physician and he walks in and meets with the patient. You get to shadow and watch this part and then work with the patient to schedule follow-ups and make sure they understand their meds.

great chance for both hands on as well as shadowing.

 

[Perrotfish]

Yeah, I just don't see these as comporable activities. Shadowing, if you go to the extremes of involvment there, might be three afternoons a week for a semester. Most people do less. This is not a terribly time consuming part of the admissions process, and you should get it done. EMT work (never done it personally) seems to be the main activity of the people who do it. If you just want to check the box for clinical experience I would say go with shadowing, if you really want more hands on clinical experience, then you should do both.

 

[nu2004]

OK so I have been in this endless internal debate as to how I should approach gaining clinical experience while in college. On the one hand there's EMT work, where I would be able to have first hand experience with trauma and extremely basic medicine. On the other hand, there's hospital volunteering which could eventually give me the opportunity to shadow a doctor, which would give me a better idea of what it means to be a doctor, but there's no guarantee that I will be able to shadow.

Any insights?

EMT-B in many places is akin to Medicar... you end up doing a lot of transport. Even if you aren't just doing transport, you're very rarely going to get any "interesting" medical cases. I would say option C) get a job as an ER tech. That would give you some of the experience of the EMT plus some shadowing of physicians, the opportunity to view a much greater range of medical cases, plus maybe a paycheck.

 

[notdeadyet]

I would say option C) get a job as an ER tech. That would give you some of the experience of the EMT plus some shadowing of physicians, the opportunity to view a much greater range of medical cases, plus maybe a paycheck.

ER Tech would be a sweet gig. But these jobs tend to be much more competitive than a job with a private company (though this may be a regional thing). Also, in my area, most of the ER's required quite a bit of experience first. But you definitely get much better variety than you would on a rig and you get the added benefit of working closely with physicians. Two birds with one stone.

 

[tvanhens]

ER Tech would be a sweet gig. But these jobs tend to be much more competitive than a job with a private company (though this may be a regional thing). Also, in my area, most of the ER's required quite a bit of experience first. But you definitely get much better variety than you would on a rig and you get the added benefit of working closely with physicians. Two birds with one stone.

I think that is what I am going to aim for, an ER tech job. I have signed up for an EMT-I program (California has a weird EMT program) this summer. Also, durring the summer, it looks like I might be able to shadow a surgeon in a private clinic. In the meantime, I signed up as an information desk volunteer and an escort in the local hospital. Hopefully this, combined with my prior work experience, will be able to land me an ER tech job there at the start of the next school year. If not, I will work on a medicar for a semester or two and re-apply for the job 🙂

 

[notdeadyet]

I have signed up for an EMT-I program (California has a weird EMT program) this summer. Also, durring the summer, it looks like I might be able to shadow a surgeon in a private clinic. In the meantime, I signed up as an information desk volunteer and an escort in the local hospital. Hopefully this, combined with my prior work experience, will be able to land me an ER tech job there at the start of the next school year. If not, I will work on a medicar for a semester or two and re-apply for the job 🙂

I'm in California too. Most ER Tech jobs are going to want to see EMT experience. Anything other than ER/ambulance experience usually doesn't qualify. But you may find some ER that doesn't require the background. I was never able too.

Look hard into the EMT-I program. You might be better off just getting an ambulance job over the summer rather than going the EMT-I route. Folks I know that looked into it said that they didn't see a big value add for the EMT-I route. You have a slight boost in capabilities, but lots of the companies didn't distinguish between EMT-I and EMT-B so until you hit paramedic, you weren't allowed to do anything more than what the EMT-Bs can do. You might be better off starting to rack up actual experience rather than further training if you're looking to go the ER Tech route.

Best of luck regardless...

 

[leviathan]

I see pre-meds at our county hospital (down in the trauma bay) all the time.

And then what kills me is everytime something interesting comes in, I ask them to come look/help and they all shy away. 😕

Man they're missing out!

What the heck??? I'll come down there and help you out with things. I stopped volunteering in my local ED because it was starting to become really boring, and any time you legitimately need to go near the trauma bays for a reason other than "snooping", some battered old nurse will yell at you to stay away. Last month I was wheeling an intubated arrest patient in when I was working as a medic, and the same nurse saw me and couldn't figure out where she recognized me from.

 

[leviathan]

they probably went into shock that a doctor actually spoke to them.

That or they're the typical pre-med who has no interest in medicine. Strange thing isn't it?

 

[pseudoknot]

I'm in California too. Most ER Tech jobs are going to want to see EMT experience. Anything other than ER/ambulance experience usually doesn't qualify. But you may find some ER that doesn't require the background. I was never able too.

Look hard into the EMT-I program. You might be better off just getting an ambulance job over the summer rather than going the EMT-I route. Folks I know that looked into it said that they didn't see a big value add for the EMT-I route. You have a slight boost in capabilities, but lots of the companies didn't distinguish between EMT-I and EMT-B so until you hit paramedic, you weren't allowed to do anything more than what the EMT-Bs can do. You might be better off starting to rack up actual experience rather than further training if you're looking to go the ER Tech route.

Best of luck regardless...

I think tvanhens was referring to the fact that in California the cert levels are called by different names than elsewhere, so in CA, EMT-I (Roman numeral I) is the same as a Basic elsewhere. An Intermediate, which is what you seem to be thinking of, is an EMT-II in California (and rarely used).

 

[pseudoknot]

Also remember that in many areas there are private companies that do 911 transport, which is a lot more fun.

 

[nu2004]

Look hard into the EMT-I program. You might be better off just getting an ambulance job over the summer rather than going the EMT-I route. Folks I know that looked into it said that they didn't see a big value add for the EMT-I route. You have a slight boost in capabilities, but lots of the companies didn't distinguish between EMT-I and EMT-B so until you hit paramedic, you weren't allowed to do anything more than what the EMT-Bs can do. You might be better off starting to rack up actual experience rather than further training if you're looking to go the ER Tech route.

from instructors and EMT's i've spoken with here in Chicago, this is true. EMT-I programs just end up being a BIG tuition investment and then most places don't distinguish between EMT-B and EMT-I. i think it's very similar around the nation.

pseudoknot[/URL]]I think tvanhens was referring to the fact that in California the cert levels are called by different names than elsewhere, so in CA, EMT-I (Roman numeral I) is the same as a Basic elsewhere. An Intermediate, which is what you seem to be thinking of, is an EMT-II in California (and rarely used).

if this is the case, ignore previous part of my post.

i got my EMT-B specifically to get a job in an ER. it seemed to be the qualification that helped me land the job, but once i got there i found that there were people who were doing other things, such as CNA or pre-nursing, and others who i don't think had any licenses or formal qualifications at all apart from CPR.

definitely get your CPR as soon as possible - this is a pretty basic requirement that everyone is going to expect. however, if you end up doing the EMT course, they will train you in it, so don't waste any money on an outside course.

anyway, good luck, it sounds like you're really interested in getting some good exposure. be assertive around the ER even if you're just cruising through as an EMT. the docs at my ER were always happy to help pre-meds get an idea of what was in store for them.

 

[tvanhens]

definitely get your CPR as soon as possible - this is a pretty basic requirement that everyone is going to expect. however, if you end up doing the EMT course, they will train you in it, so don't waste any money on an outside course.

anyway, good luck, it sounds like you're really interested in getting some good exposure. be assertive around the ER even if you're just cruising through as an EMT. the docs at my ER were always happy to help pre-meds get an idea of what was in store for them.

Yeah the EMT-I in California is equivalent to EMT-B, and EMT-II in California is equivalent to EMT-I elsewhere. So to make things easier, I meant I am training for EMT-B 🙂

And don't worry, I am extremely assertive. I am willing to get my hands on anything I can do within legal limits. I am going to be there to learn and experience.

 

[Auron]

they could just give you the 5 minute lesson on HIPAA and make you sign a confidentiality agreement like they do with their employees.

I just spoke to a friend of mine and he told me this hospital used to let students shadow the doctors but their was a breach of privacy by some one and so they no longer allow shadowing.

oh well, time to blow the dust off my yellow pages....

 

[189362]

Wow you have no idea how excited I would be about helping out with a chest tube. It seems like when I volunteer at the hospital, I get stuck doing stupid stuff so I eventually stopped and volunteered as an EMT instead. Shadowing is still cool though.

One time, a nurse grabbed me and taught me how to do butterflies and IVs on some patients. That was really fun until I realized that its probably illegal

Dude I hear you man. I used to volunteer in the OR and the only time I could do that was with another volunteer, who was at the time as senior and was going to attend medschool. Anyway, the CRNa asked him if we wanted to pass the Endotracheal tube through the vocal chords. He was older so he had priority. The patient was out and breathing slowly his stats were (very slowly albeit) dropping so his hesitation led to neither of us getting to do it. Afterwards I was like Vito I would've def. stepped up man. He was like, "I know you would , you'd cut this guy open if l let you, next time bud, next time." So I never got to work with Vito again!!!

Fast foward 18months, I work in the OR now, And vito is still there and sure enough I got to pass the Et tude through, and inflated the balloon, also taught me how to listen for the right chest sounds-- great effin feeling.

Lesson is, dont be weak. shy, or timid. While the risk is there, if someone is willing to take the heat for you and willing to teach, step up- be confident, and make your mark. I think thats a lot of what this field needs.

 

[tvanhens]

I just spoke to a friend of mine and he told me this hospital used to let students shadow the doctors but their was a breach of privacy by some one and so they no longer allow shadowing.

oh well, time to blow the dust off my yellow pages....

Yup thats exactly what they said to me when I called. However, I am fortunate enough to know a couple of really good private orthopedic surgeons back home. One of which, is going to let me shadow him as well as give me an internship.

 

[rwmedic906]

I think I'm going to step in and give my 2 cents here. I have a pretty extensive backround in EMS, and I will say that if you have the time to go through an EMT-B class you can really get alot of pertinant experience, but it will be what you make of it. When I was an EMT-B I worked for a transport service, where really my sole responsibility was to take vitals and taxi grandma to and fro, but I allways new I wanted something more so during these transports I would read every inch of the charts, read drugs that I hadnt heard of then later look them up I would try and suck every ounce of info out of these as I could etc. I guess what I am saying is that you probably will not be blown away with cool skill sets as an EMT-B but you will have at your finger tips a never ending amount of info and knowlage that you can build on and put to use later on.

Matt

 

[nu2004]

sure enough I got to pass the Et tude through,

break any teeth? 😉

 

[jhc]

I vote for EMT. Shadowing is such a hit or miss thing. You can have useful experiences, but more often than not you're just standing around. The lessons you learn as an EMT (ABCs!) are forever useful. At the very least, you should be able to talk about a time when you were the person responsible for a patient's care, even if what you could do was limited. I think this is more valuable than standing around and watching what's going on in a hospital.

 

[Blade28]

What the heck??? I'll come down there and help you out with things. I stopped volunteering in my local ED because it was starting to become really boring, and any time you legitimately need to go near the trauma bays for a reason other than "snooping", some battered old nurse will yell at you to stay away. Last month I was wheeling an intubated arrest patient in when I was working as a medic, and the same nurse saw me and couldn't figure out where she recognized me from.

Nice story!

I swear, if I could gather enough SDN pre-meds down at the local county hospital here, we'd have some great stories!

That or they're the typical pre-med who has no interest in medicine. Strange thing isn't it?

Man that's deep. 👍

break any teeth? 😉

I think he was just inserting the ET tube (with stylet), and not actually using the laryngoscope. 🙂

 

[housem]

Possibly. But I've seen some of them "do" stuff before. I think they're just scared? Or shy?

I take it back, one time this kid did help me with a chest tube. But that was just once! I've probably offered to show people around and get them more involved maybe 30-40 times and gotten a mumbled "uh, no thanks" each time. 😕

Do you work at Grady Memorial Hospital by any chance?

 

[housem]

I think I'm going to step in and give my 2 cents here. I have a pretty extensive backround in EMS, and I will say that if you have the time to go through an EMT-B class you can really get alot of pertinant experience, but it will be what you make of it. When I was an EMT-B I worked for a transport service, where really my sole responsibility was to take vitals and taxi grandma to and fro, but I allways new I wanted something more so during these transports I would read every inch of the charts, read drugs that I hadnt heard of then later look them up I would try and suck every ounce of info out of these as I could etc. I guess what I am saying is that you probably will not be blown away with cool skill sets as an EMT-B but you will have at your finger tips a never ending amount of info and knowlage that you can build on and put to use later on.

Matt

Any idea on the average amount of time it takes to train for EMT-B?

 

[notdeadyet]

Any idea on the average amount of time it takes to train for EMT-B?

Varies by program. I think the minimum set by national registry used to be 120 hours.

The training is usually a one semester night class (twice a week, the one I went to) or an intensive program offered in the summer or year round by private companies, in which case it's 3-4 weeks full time.

It's time consuming, but very level academically. Your average premed will have no problems with it, though there's a lot of volume.

 

[SayVYas]

I didn't read the other posts, but


Using your EMT-B license (or CNA) you can become a tech in an ER. That would probably be the best all around...

 

[tvanhens]

I didn't read the other posts, but


Using your EMT-B license (or CNA) you can become a tech in an ER. That would probably be the best all around...

Yes but those jobs typically require at least 6 months experience on the back of a rig. Lucky for me, I am only a freshman. That means I will have almost 3 years ER tech experience time left after working on a rig.

Varies by program. I think the minimum set by national registry used to be 120 hours.

The training is usually a one semester night class (twice a week, the one I went to) or an intensive program offered in the summer or year round by private companies, in which case it's 3-4 weeks full time.

It's time consuming, but very level academically. Your average premed will have no problems with it, though there's a lot of volume.

Yes its 120 hours, you can usually find a program at your local community college. However, it is possible to get the program done over the summer. I am taking 3 classes a week for 6 hours each for my training. The program lasts a total of 7 weeks.

The most important thing to remember is to make sure that the program is accredited. My brother had to do his training twice because the program he was using lost their accreditation the year before and he never asked.

 

[SageFrancis]

EMT!
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=EMT&word2=shadowing

Ok, now I'll stop. I just happened to see so many versus threads...

 

[leviathan]

Man that's deep. 👍

Arghggh...but doesn't it strike everyone here as odd? The fact that there's lots of people who want to go to medical school, but don't seem to be interested in medicine?

I mean, I may be on the painfully enthusiastic side of things when it comes to my fascination for medicine, but I'm shocked that lots of people would turn down a request from an EP to check some things out, or help out. The last time I was in the hospital, I got to watch an emerg physician put in a central line, which was really cool.

 

[Blade28]

Do you work at Grady Memorial Hospital by any chance?

Yes I do.

Arghggh...but doesn't it strike everyone here as odd? The fact that there's lots of people who want to go to medical school, but don't seem to be interested in medicine?

Well, there are those who are "interested" in the sense that they like the IDEA of becoming a doctor. Whether or not this translates to actually being assertive and enthusiastic is a whole 'nother issue.

 

[Maxx4]

I see pre-meds at our county hospital (down in the trauma bay) all the time.

And then what kills me is everytime something interesting comes in, I ask them to come look/help and they all shy away. 😕

Man they're missing out!

I'd love to volunteer in your hospital! The doctors see us, say hi, and keep walking. We're lucky if they even say hi. 🙄

 

[Blade28]

I'd love to volunteer in your hospital! The doctors see us, say hi, and keep walking. We're lucky if they even say hi. 🙄

Yeah, I just don't get that.

We've all been there - I remember my awkward pre-med days very well.

 

[housem]

Yes I do.



Well, there are those who are "interested" in the sense that they like the IDEA of becoming a doctor. Whether or not this translates to actually being assertive and enthusiastic is a whole 'nother issue.

See, now I am kind of surprised because I just started volunteering there and none of the doctors were that friendly and helpful (though I figured it was for legal reasons). I nearly fell asleep because my first day literally consisted of opening the door for two hours...

Can you please tell me which department you work in so I can volunteer there instead? 😀