Endo 2013

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Does anyone know anything about St Louis University?
 
thewingman said:
I know that this thread is being used primarily for interview purposes, but I wanted to get your motivation for applying to endo. Sure, you are applying because you love endo, but what are your thoughts on the future of endo and the impact that impants are having on endo referals. Are many of you considering programs that teach implant placement?
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bump
 
Endo1 said:
has anyone been offered a spot at Penn yet? I know they are not done interviewing, but I was just curious.
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Got an offer from UMDNJ.

Based on what I gathered from the residents at Penn, it takes them typically anywhere up to a month to respond...
 
Congrats Dentyte08!

Peeps lets keep this forum going!
 
the wing man,

Your question can be answered very simply......

You pick a specialty because you enjoy it, love doing it, and most important you want to become an expert on a specific subject...in this case endo.......don't do it for the money.....you can make as much or even more as a GP......

Implants affecting endo....yes, but the reasons are multifactorial.....however, the demand for endo will always be there. I haven't met a starving new endo grad out there.

I know it is not too much in detail, but it is unnecessary.....the answer is there for you....

Best of luck on your decision...i understand where u are coming from....but don't listen to the rumors go out and see for yourself......talk to many endodontists....and i would talk to a lot of the new or recently graduated endodontists out there because they can give you a good sense of how it is out there.
 
I had an interview at UCLA for 9/7 but they also just added an interview day for 9/5 but I cancelled because I accepted a position elsewhere
 
docdok said:
the wing man,

Your question can be answered very simply......

You pick a specialty because you enjoy it, love doing it, and most important you want to become an expert on a specific subject...in this case endo.......don't do it for the money.....you can make as much or even more as a GP......

Implants affecting endo....yes, but the reasons are multifactorial.....however, the demand for endo will always be there. I haven't met a starving new endo grad out there.

I know it is not too much in detail, but it is unnecessary.....the answer is there for you....

Best of luck on your decision...i understand where u are coming from....but don't listen to the rumors go out and see for yourself......talk to many endodontists....and i would talk to a lot of the new or recently graduated endodontists out there because they can give you a good sense of how it is out there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply!

Money isn't the concern. I am more interested in where the specialty is going. There are programs out there that are teaching implant placement and I was interested in seeing if that is where the specialty is headed.
 
thewingman said:
Thanks for your reply!

Money isn't the concern. I am more interested in where the specialty is going. There are programs out there that are teaching implant placement and I was interested in seeing if that is where the specialty is headed.
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Everyone out there wants a piece of implants these days (OS, perio, GP and now Endo). If you're asking me, the direction of Endo will be just fine. Yes, you maybe doing less surgeries, but your bread and butter, which are RCTs and retreatments will always be there. As a matter of fact it's perio that should worry the most not Endo.


I've only been out of school for 4 years so my experience is limited, but vast majority of my patients like to save their tooth as opposed to replace them with implants.

Hope this helps 🙂
 
Dentyte08 said:
Everyone out there wants a piece of implants these days (OS, perio, GP and now Endo). If you're asking me, the direction of Endo will be just fine. Yes, you maybe doing less surgeries, but your bread and butter, which are RCTs and retreatments will always be there. As a matter of fact it's perio that should worry the most not Endo.


I've only been out of school for 4 years so my experience is limited, but vast majority of my patients like to save their tooth as opposed to replace them with implants.

Hope this helps 🙂
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Implants in endo.........depends.

Single units i say yes....it is a great option to the patient, however, you have to also look at your relationships with your referrals. Do they do implants? Do you have a wonderful relation with your referral base and they want you to provide the service.....do you want to even bother doing implants? ....etc....

But back to the point....endo will be fine....whether implants are a part of endo or not is not important.

Your services are valuable because your restorative dentist can't function without you.

If the restorative dentist is young and just starting out they will probably want to do most of the cases...however, as they build the practice, they get busy, and they realize the headaches then you will get more referrals. If the dentist is busy and loves endo ,well they will continue doing endo..however, this is the same for any other specialty...if the dentist enjoys CTGs then they will do them, if they like taking out teeth, they will do them....

Your job as an endo is to educate your referring dentist so they understand what you can add to their arsenal of tools they provide in the office. Your job is not to tell them not to do endo, ain't gonna happen....

As a specialist you are their to help and make the restorative dentist shine! If you can do that then both of you win, and the patient benefits.

Now, of course this only applies if your referral base cares about the patients and want to provide the best service. If money is their driving force then you won't get anything, but then again do you want to work with someone like that?

Whether it is endo, perio, os, you will deal with the same issues....Also, with more GP's trying to be a jack of all trades ie Super-GP's this will increase..

However, again if what you are concerned about is true then why aren't all these specialists out of business; ortho, os, endo, perio.....

They are all doing fine....yes some are struggling, but most are doing great!

If your referring dentists see that you do excellent work, care about the patients, and isn't all about just money you will be successful....

Enjoy the ride! Go with what you want to do for the next 20+ years......many say they won't do endo because it is boring and routine.....my friend everything becomes boring and routine! When u get good at something you get comfortable and things become routine...that is what you want! you should be so good that providing treatment runs on cruise control.

Oh btw, if you think endo is only about simple cases then don't do it...you will get the hard cases......boy oh boy....but that is why u are the specialist! Remember your first prep, your first operative....wasn't that hard...well, its the same...you get trained at a higher level!

I'm not an expert and these are my opinions so take it any way you wish....i just want to share my thoughts only! I hope I can add just a small grain of knowledge for everyone to enjoy! =)
 
Heard from University of Michigan yesterday via email. Their interview is on Sept 18th.

For me:

Sept 6 - Univ of Detroit-Mercy
Sept 7 - Univ at Buffalo
Sept 10 - Indiana University
Sept 12 - Univ of Illinois at Chicago
Sept 18 - Univ of Michigan

I'm getting excited for this road trip! I head straight out after work tonight.
 
Temple via email/phone call. Turned down, already accepted a position somewhere else.
 
interview at Temple on Sept. 20th.

Anyone here anything from Marquette?
 
anyone get acceptances from penn or columbia yet?
 
Yes I accepted Columbia
 
Interview at Marquette Sept. 21
 
Do any current Endo residents know where to get those Endo carts that residents use during the program? Their wooden, on wheels, and generally used to house heating systems, files, etc. Not the ASI one that is thousands of dollars with a motor, suction, etc. on it. .Just a regular cart used by many endodontic residents. Please let me know, thank you! Good luck to the new applicants!
 
I dunno if its exactly what you're referring to but one of the residents at UMDNJ said he just went to IKEA and bought one. I believe its relatively cheap.
 
So what other interview are still around?
Just finished up in Houston but I know about Tennessee & Nebraska next week.
 
I heard that NYU hasnt even sent out invitations to interview as of last week.
 
Is it to early or can we start seeing where everyone is going next yr for residency???
 
Interviewed at: Penn, UMDNJ, Florida, Buffalo, Toronto, Tufts, Temple, and Marquette

Offered: Penn, Temple, and Marquette

Accepted: Marquette
 
Interviewed at:
Baylor, South Carolina, WA, UCLA, Long Beach, Houston, Tennessee & Nebraska

Offered:
Tennessee

Accepted at:
Tennessee

Congratulations to those of you so far. Glad i'm done traveling.
 
congrats to you all. : )

I accepted an offer from Tufts.
 
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Interviewed at:
Baylor, LSU, UF, VCU, UMKC, Penn, Indiana, Nebraska

Offered:
Nebraska

Accepted:
Nebraska

I cancelled an upcoming interview at Temple.

Congrats to everyone who has accepted and good luck to people still on the trail!!
 
Interviewed at
Univ of Detroit-Mercy, Buffalo, Indiana Univ, Univ at Illinois at Chicago,

Offered:
UDM, Buffalo, IU, UIC

Accepted:
University of Detroit-Mercy
 
has anyone gotten an interview invite to NYU?
 
Yup, I got an invite on Sept 27th via email but turned it down because I already accepted a position.
 
for those of you accepted to some program or another
would you mind sharing you stats?

dental school GPA or ranking
Part I & II scores
years of experience -- how long ago did you graduate?
 
hey i'm also interested in these stats if people could respond
thanks 🙂
 
I really feel that stats aren't everything. Unless I'm an anomaly, I don't have the best stats and managed to get in. I'm currently in 4th year and haven't taken boards part II. My part 1 score was 80. My GPA is 3.8 and I'm ranked 13th in my class. I have no research experience but I have put in some time in the grad endo clinic as well as with local endodontists. I do feel though that I had strong letters of recommendation. Having said all that, I got 9 interview invites and 3 acceptances. If you really want this, you gotta try for it. Don't get discouraged if you didn't score 90+ on boards or are #1 in your class. If I can do it, trust me, you can!
 
dyriw said:
I really feel that stats aren't everything. Unless I'm an anomaly, I don't have the best stats and managed to get in. I'm currently in 4th year and haven't taken boards part II. My part 1 score was 80. My GPA is 3.8 and I'm ranked 13th in my class. I have no research experience but I have put in some time in the grad endo clinic as well as with local endodontists. I do feel though that I had strong letters of recommendation. Having said all that, I got 9 interview invites and 3 acceptances. If you really want this, you gotta try for it. Don't get discouraged if you didn't score 90+ on boards or are #1 in your class. If I can do it, trust me, you can!
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying.
Best of luck next year!
 
NBDE I: 90
NBDE II: 86

Rank: 26/132

Currently in a 1 yr GPR. No research experience and limited extracurriculars relating to community service.
 
For me my GPA was a 3.41 but my class rank was low.
Part 1 and 2: 88
6 years experience with tons of CE in everything from IV sedation, to implants and ortho (real ortho). Lots of volunteering and shadowing. Show passion and commitment. make your application stand out from the rest of the pack. these programs get 80-100 applications a year and pick 10-30 people to interview depending on the size of the program. Some programs will throw away your application if you dont have experience but there are plenty of programs out there that the opposite is true.
 
Interview Invitations:
University of Connecticut, Columbia University, Stony Brook University, University of California, San Francisco, University of Michigan, University of Illinois at Chicago, University of Maryland, University of Texas at Houston, Boston University, Case Western Reserve University, West Virginia University.....

Attended 4 interviews
Accepted an offer from University of Connecticut
 
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thewingman said:
Thanks for your reply!

Money isn't the concern. I am more interested in where the specialty is going. There are programs out there that are teaching implant placement and I was interested in seeing if that is where the specialty is headed.
Click to expand...

I'm a GP applying to Pedo. My neighborhood endodontist is now doing crown lengthening procedures too. I always thought that it's a Perio thing. Anyways, I do send patients over there for it.
 
thewingman said:
Money isn't the concern. I am more interested in where the specialty is going. There are programs out there that are teaching implant placement and I was interested in seeing if that is where the specialty is headed.
Click to expand...

ubdental said:
I'm a GP applying to Pedo. My neighborhood endodontist is now doing crown lengthening procedures too. I always thought that it's a Perio thing. Anyways, I do send patients over there for it.
Click to expand...
I've seen general dentists and oral surgeons doing crown lengthening too.
Here is the latest info on all specialties (It was released by ADA ~2-3 yrs ago):

Practice Net Income:

OMFS: $516,260
Endodontists: $366,340
Pediatric Dentists: $346,070
Orthodontists: $290,200
Periodontists: $279,540
General Practice Dentists: $233,200

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792428

PayScale.com reports the following numbers:

Oral Surgery: $78,906 - $430,812 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Oral_Surgeon/Salary
Endo: $67,216 - $395,610 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Endodontist/Salary
Perio: $101,064 - $304,834 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Periodontist/Salary
Ortho: $78,873 - $280,759 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Orthodontist/Salary
Pediatric: $98,136 - $235,324 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pediatric_Dentist/Salary
Pros: $56,171 - $203,223 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Prosthodontist/Salary
General: $67,235 - $201,118 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=General_Dentist/Salary

Aspen says it pays its endodontists between $400,000 - $700,000
http://www.aspendentaljobs.com/specialists.htm?_ab_sessid=afac14630782df6a912be246376cb42c

26 of their locations are searching for endodontists (more than any other specialty)
http://jobs.aspendentaljobs.com/search/

You will see the same pattern on other websites (e.g. go to careerbuilder or monster.com or any other website and search for the word "endodontist" and then search for other specialists)
 
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For those of you who went to private dental schools, what kind of loans are you looking at after Endo training? Some of these programs cost 200-300k for tuition, supplies, living, etc..Wouldn't that put your total debt at close to 700-800K including dental school? (after factoring in interest, etc..)
 
Endo2012 said:
I've seen general dentists and oral surgeons doing crown lengthening too.
Here is the latest info on all specialties (It was released by ADA ~2-3 yrs ago):

Practice Net Income:

OMFS: $516,260
Endodontists: $366,340
Pediatric Dentists: $346,070
Orthodontists: $290,200
Periodontists: $279,540
General Practice Dentists: $233,200

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792428

PayScale.com reports the following numbers:

Oral Surgery: $78,906 - $430,812 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Oral_Surgeon/Salary
Endo: $67,216 - $395,610 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Endodontist/Salary
Perio: $101,064 - $304,834 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Periodontist/Salary
Ortho: $78,873 - $280,759 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Orthodontist/Salary
Pediatric: $98,136 - $235,324 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pediatric_Dentist/Salary
Pros: $56,171 - $203,223 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Prosthodontist/Salary
General: $67,235 - $201,118 http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=General_Dentist/Salary

Aspen says it pays its endodontists between $400,000 - $700,000
http://www.aspendentaljobs.com/specialists.htm?_ab_sessid=afac14630782df6a912be246376cb42c

26 of their locations are searching for endodontists (more than any other specialty)
http://jobs.aspendentaljobs.com/search/

You will see the same pattern on other websites (e.g. go to careerbuilder or monster.com or any other website and search for the word "endodontist" and then search for other specialists)
Click to expand...


Also, can someone comment on how realistic these number are based on your experience?
 
Silent Cool said:
Also, can someone comment on how realistic these number are based on your experience?
Click to expand...
Silent Cool,

If I were you I would do some serious thinking about debt.

Going to endo school and ending up with 700k of debt is pretty crazy. For that matter any specialty

You will be struggling for a long time until you get settled in before you make good money.

Also, your success will depend on hard work etc, but a lot of luck and finding the right situation. You will hear people who are rocking from day one and others who are regretting decisions they made in life and struggling.

Demand for endo is there; but man, you will need to bring in some serious cash to service your heavy debt.

I know people/close friends who did the private dental then private specialty; came out with some heavy heavy debt. ortho, endo, etc.....Funny thing is that they are all doing fantastic! Of course they ain't happy with the loan payment; but they are servicing the debt and still enjoying life......Of course having so much debt is a fantastic motivator to succeed quickly! =)

I was at an investment seminar; true story the speaker had a good friend who was a lawyer i believe...20 years out he never paid the loan. We asked him how; he said his friend took part time classes at local comuntity college and received student forbearance/deferments..... i didn't think it was possible....anyhow the point was that the student loan amount was pretty much nothing due to inflation and subsidy. If I ended up with 700k debt; i would either pay it off in 10 years or less or spread it out till the day i die and not pay it off; wait sounds like our government!

In regards to salary ranges those are accurate; some are at the low end some are at the high end. In the end no matter what you do you can't do worse than what an associate GP makes in an HMO clinic? =)
 
I think a good rule of thumb is to not accumulate more debt than what you can make a year. I think its a crime what some of these private schools charge for tuition. If you goto one of these schools I hope you like working in a rural area because the big metro cities are saturated.
 
Yup; that is why i chose the school that is best with cheapest cost............its great to have choices but some people don't have that luxury; or they are young and can't beat the temptation of living in NYC or Los angeles and living the high life.................can't beat that when one is single


oh boy
 
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