Engineering and Medicine

[gtg162yy]

Which is the hardest among Medicine and Engineering? I know that getting into Medical schools is really hard, but so is getting into good Engineering schools like MIT, CalTech etc...

I have heard people saying that in Medical schools there's *alot* of material but the material is not as bad as in Engineering schools--good schools like MIT/Georgia Tech and others. They say Engineering classes are very challenging. They not have much memorization but the concepts can drive you crazy. I don't know to what extent is this comparison true? Can anyone shed some light on this?

I am currently going at Georgia Tech, and am confused on whether to go for Med school or not. Will Medical School challenge me more than Georgia Tech? Or just more material but not as *rigorous?*

Thank you!

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[Gimlet]

Not that I am an expert on either type of school, but here is my two cents:

First, getting into med school is hard in general, no matter which school you go to. With the exception of the few engineering programs you mentioned, most engineering schools are lenient enough to let pretty much anyone who can maintain halfway decent grades in. Trust me, I had roommates in college who probably shouldn't have been allowed into my university's engineering school. Since you're only talking about the premier schools, though, I guess this doesn't really matter.

Second, the curriculum in med school is equally difficult for everyone. Everyone getting an MD at your school has to do the same work. On the other hand, the difficulty of your engineering curriculum can be as easy or difficult as you want it to be, depending on what field you go into. Along the same lines, I really think the memorization vs. conceptual learning issue depends mostly on what type of learner you are. I can memorize the heck out of anything, but my engineering friends work a lot better with equations and ideas that they can apply to different situations. Not to say that there isn't a good deal of conceptual learning in med school, either.

Finally, if the only reason why you are thinking about going into medicine is because it might "challenge" you more than Georgia Tech, then you probably shouldn't be going into medicine at all. Becoming an MD will most certainly challenge you almost every day of your life, but just because it might be more challenging than being an engineer shouldn't be the only reason why you do it.

 

[duncanparkerfan]

Hey! I have an engineering degree and now am MSI. I've found med school is challenging, in a different way than engineering. I'm doing well with my med school work, and found it's very doable - besides classes, I'm taking 3 electives, and have some life outside...

But I had to switch my studying method. when I was studying engineering, I didn't feel that I had to memorize anything, I just needed to understand it and once I understood it, I wouldn't forget about it for quite a long period of time. I guess that was why I only had to read the text books once and did very well on tests in those science and engineering classes - but for sure you needed to really understand things and knew how to apply them.

But I've found that I couldn't just read the syllabus once to do very well in med school classes! Bucause there's not much understanding for me to do, thus they don't stick to my brain very long - no interesting physics problem solving any more 🙁 - quite of the material needs just memorization. I'm sure we must know how to apply them in the future, but for the first year classes, we really had to memorize a lof of basic things, which I did not enjoy doing at the beginning. It's not that mind stimulating. But even illiterate people can recite poetry, why can't we memorize medical stuff? So, not that bad once you do not expect those interesting mind twisting physics problems in med school and work hard reading and memorizing a lot of stuff, you'll do very well.

Why not try engineering first, if you don't like it enough as a life-long career, then go to med school - only if you're sure that's your passion.

 

[CaptainJack02]

what's your major at tech? i was ee '04 and i'm heading to mercer next year.

best thing you can do - go to children's hospital of atlanta, grady, or there's a little clinic 10 minutes away from tech called good samaritan health center, and see whether you like the medical atmosphere. it's a gut feeling - but if you do enjoy it and want the othe rbenefits of medicine, then go for it.

also, talk to robert butera in the bme department. he's the ece adviser but he knows a lot about the process and is very helpful. good luck and pm me if you want more info...

 

[8744]

You technically don't get admitted to an "engineering school." You are admitted to the university and need to attain a certain GPA in the Freshmen and Sophmore "weed-out" courses (Calculus, Statics, Dynamics, etc.) to continue on in the engineering department as an engineering student.

The typical engineering curriculum is much harder then the typical medical school curriculum. I studied a lot harder for my Civil Engineering degree than I do in medical school for approximately the same grades. (B's and C's)

Medical school is a lot more stressful, on the other hand, including the admission process. The stakes are higher. Nobody ever asks about your grades or class rank when you apply for an engineering job but these are fair game when applying for a residency.

I think that if you can handle engineering, especially the more difficult engineering fields like Electrical and Mechanical, you will have no problem in the first two years of medical school. The people who run into trouble are the ones who skated through college in some relatively benign biological sciences program and once in medical school are confronted with the neccessity of studying hard for perhaps the first time in their lives.

Don't flame me. After statics, dynamics, fluid mechanics, steel design, concrete design, differential equations, finite element analysis, and the usual run of engineering courses I wasn't about to let something as silly as the Krebb's cycle kick my ass.

 

[cooldreams]

You technically don't get admitted to an "engineering school." You are admitted to the university and need to attain a certain GPA in the Freshmen and Sophmore "weed-out" courses (Calculus, Statics, Dynamics, etc.) to continue on in the engineering department as an engineering student.

The typical engineering curriculum is much harder then the typical medical school curriculum. I studied a lot harder for my Civil Engineering degree than I do in medical school for approximately the same grades. (B's and C's)

Medical school is a lot more stressful, on the other hand, including the admission process. The stakes are higher. Nobody ever asks about your grades or class rank when you apply for an engineering job but these are fair game when applying for a residency.

I think that if you can handle engineering, especially the more difficult engineering fields like Electrical and Mechanical, you will have no problem in the first two years of medical school. The people who run into trouble are the ones who skated through college in some relatively benign biological sciences program and once in medical school are confronted with the neccessity of studying hard for perhaps the first time in their lives.

Don't flame me. After statics, dynamics, fluid mechanics, steel design, concrete design, differential equations, finite element analysis, and the usual run of engineering courses I wasn't about to let something as silly as the Krebb's cycle kick my ass.

i very much agree... i have found i can pick up the bio stuff really fast, i mean its easy - just memorization. here im talking about basic premed courses like biology, genetics, orgo chem, etc. when comparing that to my electrical engineering classes, the engineering was way harder, and in a completely different way.

i think if u can make a high enough gpa in engineering undergrad to be accepted to medical school, then you will be fine.

the above poster about no one cares about your engineering undergrad gpa, that is not true. i didnt enter directly into this medical school process from undergrad, but rather did interviews and got a job. i was able to get about 15 interviews at my school whereas the ave classmate got maybe 3-5. this is because my gpa was much higher than ave. the stuff you are doing now will follow you... dont slack off...

 

[whattodowithmys]

You technically don't get admitted to an "engineering school." You are admitted to the university and need to attain a certain GPA in the Freshmen and Sophmore "weed-out" courses (Calculus, Statics, Dynamics, etc.) to continue on in the engineering department as an engineering student.


This statement is actually not true for all schools. I know at my school, you have to be admitted directly into the "college of engineering" when you initially apply. But there are some schools that you just apply to the univeristy as a whole, and declare later (after you demonstrate good grades in the appropriate subjects.)

As for the other discussions, I say the difficulty of both a medical curriculum, and an engineering curriculum both depend a good deal on the particular school. I would not be convinced that a 3.8 GPA in southearstern texas state tech campus b chem engineering is more impressive that a 3.4 in the same subject from say, MIT. With that said I personally know someone who graduated from Cornell's engineering with less than a 3.6, then went to Northwestern Med, and graduated AOA, with what he said was the same relative work habits, and weekly study time.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Yes medical school will challenge you. You're right, less rigorous but so much material. Medchool material is like an oilslick. It goes on for ever but has NO depth. Really the volume IS the rigor. 😉

 

[sacrament]

Getting my masters in chemical engineering was so much more difficult than medical school that I can't even easily compare the two. The hardest test I've had in medical school, or the worst hours I've pulled on a rotation, are nothing compared to the grueling schedule and mental demand that grad school put me through.

 

[thackl]

Hey! I have an engineering degree and now am MSI. I've found med school is challenging, in a different way than engineering. I'm doing well with my med school work, and found it's very doable - besides classes, I'm taking 3 electives, and have some life outside...

But I had to switch my studying method. when I was studying engineering, I didn't feel that I had to memorize anything, I just needed to understand it and once I understood it, I wouldn't forget about it for quite a long period of time. I guess that was why I only had to read the text books once and did very well on tests in those science and engineering classes - but for sure you needed to really understand things and knew how to apply them.

But I've found that I couldn't just read the syllabus once to do very well in med school classes! Bucause there's not much understanding for me to do, thus they don't stick to my brain very long - no interesting physics problem solving any more 🙁 - quite of the material needs just memorization. I'm sure we must know how to apply them in the future, but for the first year classes, we really had to memorize a lof of basic things, which I did not enjoy doing at the beginning. It's not that mind stimulating. But even illiterate people can recite poetry, why can't we memorize medical stuff? So, not that bad once you do not expect those interesting mind twisting physics problems in med school and work hard reading and memorizing a lot of stuff, you'll do very well.

Why not try engineering first, if you don't like it enough as a life-long career, then go to med school - only if you're sure that's your passion.

I'll second this. ME from a good school and graduate work in micro-E. Workload is about the same as a tough engineering grad program. However, in engineering, creativty & smarts will take you far. The material is just tougher to get (and more interesting to learn). In med school, nothing is tough..... just a lot of it. As an engineer, I seem to get the spacial/conceptual stuff much easier. Just like the above poster, I can learn the material very quickly, but it only sticks for a few days (very frustrating). One day I'm teaching something to classmates and a week later, it's like I never saw it before.

 

[gtg162yy]

Getting my masters in chemical engineering was so much more difficult than medical school that I can't even easily compare the two. The hardest test I've had in medical school, or the worst hours I've pulled on a rotation, are nothing compared to the grueling schedule and mental demand that grad school put me through.

If I understand this correctly, do you mean to say that going into a grad school(masters/Ph.D) in Engineering, particularly EE, will mentally challenge me more than Medicine?
I know its kinda *dumb* to think this way, but I just enjoy doing challenging stuffs, although sometimes it gets frustrating but the rewards(personal satisfaction) are great when you succeed.

 

[sacrament]

If I understand this correctly, do you mean to say that going into a grad school(masters/Ph.D) in Engineering, particularly EE, will mentally challenge me more than Medicine?
I know its kinda *dumb* to think this way, but I just enjoy doing challenging stuffs, although sometimes it gets frustrating but the rewards(personal satisfaction) are great when you succeed.

Well everybody is different, but I was far more mentally engaged in engineering grad school than I ever have been in medicine. I worked for awhile in industry (semi-conductors) after that, which was also more mentally challenging than med school.

 

[katrinadams9]

I got my undergrad degree in chemical engineering. Looking back, I probably should've changed my major once I realized I didn't want to be an engineer. I could have taken more electives and had a much more fun experience in undergrad had I not been holed up in the engineering building working on my damn spreadsheets and ASPEN projects all the time. And engineering senior design projects are the worst!

I wouldn't say that med school is a breeze, but compared to engineering, it's easier. All you have to do is switch over from the computing mode to memorization mode and it's all good.

 

[tinkerbelle]

I always ask my friends how med school compares to being a BME at Hopkins. And my friends tend to think that med school is very time consuming, but that engineering is wayyyy harder.

 

[evajaclynn]

I got my undergrad degree in chemical engineering. Looking back, I probably should've changed my major once I realized I didn't want to be an engineer..

Same here! I realized during my junior year that chemical engineering probably wasn't for me, but couldn't stand the thought of all those calculus & engineering courses counting for nothing if I switched majors! So I stuck with it even though it drained me to the core. I'm so happy to be changing pathways in my life!

 

[katrinadams9]

Same here! I realized during my junior year that chemical engineering probably wasn't for me, but couldn't stand the thought of all those calculus & engineering courses counting for nothing if I switched majors! So I stuck with it even though it drained me to the core. I'm so happy to be changing pathways in my life!

That's the same year I decided to pursue medicine as well! Have you met other engineers in your class? We seem to be the minority among undergrad majors in med school. I've met a total of 3 other engineers here at WSU (2 chemical and one mechanical).

One good thing about med school is the people aren't as nerdy (when compared to enginerds) and they're better looking. I also like having more female classmates to relate to! I was getting a little tired of hangin' with the boys all the time!

 

[policymaker]

I too was an engineering major in college, and I even worked a few years before coming to med school. I definitely agree with all the above posters re: the difference between concepts and memorization. At least, that's how I justify my grades so far. 😀 Something I've been wondering though. Will this "conceptual ability" ever give us an advantage once we get done w/ basic sciences and the dreaded boards, or are us engineers forever stuck playing memorization catchup?

 

[omarsaleh66]

I was an MIS major in Undergrad and worked fulltime as a programmer/IT engineer for an engineering firm. I got laid off, then decided to go to med school. hahha Programming is harder than medicine. But Im sure medical school can get hard if u are doing some cool research or soemthing.

Holla at a balla

EDIT: WHen i first started med school, it was pretty hard cuz I didnt even know how to memorize. It took me like 4 months to learn. but then it became easier, not easy but a little easier 😀

 

[evajaclynn]

That's the same year I decided to pursue medicine as well! Have you met other engineers in your class? We seem to be the minority among undergrad majors in med school. I've met a total of 3 other engineers here at WSU (2 chemical and one mechanical).

One good thing about med school is the people aren't as nerdy (when compared to enginerds) and they're better looking. I also like having more female classmates to relate to! I was getting a little tired of hangin' with the boys all the time!

Well, I know that 2 of the students in our 2003 ChemE graduating class of ~25 are already in med school, 1 went to dental school, and there are at least 2 others who are considering med school (in addition to me). I don't know yet if there will be any other engineers in my med school class b/c I start next fall. You're right about being one of the only girls! There were only 6 girls in my class and 4 of them were married or engaged.

What I've heard from my ChemE friends who have already started med school is similar to what has already been posted on this thread. Though med school is extremely tough, its a different kind of tough than ChemE. I'm looking forward to the change!

 

[Sage880]

I did Engineering before Medicine. You're right, concept wise it was harder.

My whole thing in Engineering was I HATED memorizing anything. I always thought I could just look up some "fact" I needed to do my job. I couldn't stand memorizing even the smallest list.

Med school is all memorization but I don't mind doing it. I know I'll have to make lots of decisions quickly and find obscure connections between facts in my head quickly. So now that it doesn't seem so pointless I don't mind doing it at all.

Kind of off topic here but I always wonder when I meet someone who's switched from eng to med. They're so different in styles. For me, med is much more interesting even though I don't find it as conceptually as hard.

 

[daria]

I worked in Comp. Sci. for 7 years, then switched to med. Computer Science is of course not quite like engineering, although we had to take a number of engineering classes. Still, I'll use the analogy a doctor friend of mine (who has an MS in computer engineering and an MD) used: "learning engineering is like lifting a really heavy weight once; learning medicine is like lifting a one-pound weight about a million times". Which just goes back to the "volume" thing.

In my Algorithms class, I remember sometimes reading and rereading a problem for about 4 hours before I understood the problem (much less knew how to find a solution). A semester into MS2, I can't imagine having to do that in medicine.

I found computer science research & development (as a career) to be intellectually challenging, but (and this is very personal and non-transferable) quite meaningless. I expect medicine to be equally challenging in different ways (what is wrong with this patient, and once I figure it out, how can he & I find a way to resolve it that works for him/her? plus, healthcare policy is quite a fascinatingly tangled mess), and a lot more meaningful to me.

The downside that lots of people have mentioned: the memorization aspect of med school simply cannot be underestimated. I suck at it (a residual from studying Comp. Sci., where you pretty much don't memorize a single thing), and I went into med school thinking I could avoid rote memorization by (drumroll please) "TRULY UNDERSTANDING THE MATERIAL". I realized that this was impossible about halfway into 1st semester; no amount of understanding will save if you can't remember where the heads of the biceps brachii insert. Gaah... moreover, I feel like all this memorization has sort of addled my brain, so that when presented with a real "thinking" problem, I fish for an easy memorized answer. 🙁

 

[Med-Student2B]

I'd like to point out that many posters are comparing apples to orange by saying "well... engineering programs are easier to get into than med school."

Of course this is true but that's only because engineering has been only mentioned in the contexts of undergraduate study. So if that's what we're talking about we should be comparing engineering to say, a pre-med program (which also enroll anyone with a decent GPA).

When you ask is engineering as hard as medicine, you'd be making amore accurate judgement if you considered only graduate level engineering.

Honestly - I think both fields range in complexity depending on what you decide to pursue. Engineers can design anything from hubcaps to nanosenors to synthetic hearts! Just as doctors mend anything from a deep wound to an epileptic brain. Just depends on your specialty.

I think the biggest difference between the two fields is the FOCUS. Engineers deal with inanimate objects. Doctors deal with human beings that experience the full spectrum of human sensation and emotion.

I think engineering is a little less time consuming, and it certainly doesn't pay as much. And the fact that you aren't dealing with people can be seen as either good or bad, depends on how you view it.

Yes, there is no emotional investment so you won't go home and cry because a transistor went out, but at the same time... there is no emotional anything which some can find cut and dry. But you can take engineering to a high level and accomplish wonderful things that will truly benefit society.

As a doctor however, you literally may save someone's life! The rewards of that might be more accessible than say, designing a synthetic heart, or building a secure bridge.

As a doctor patients say "thank you" (usually). As an engineer, you're boss might thank you for doing good work. But noone's gonna thank you for that wonderful stadium you designed in the local highschool.

One thing - doctors make more money than engineers. Does that mean being a doctor poses a greater challenge? I think it does becuase there is less room for error. We all see sloppy lazy engineers, and yes we dislike them because they are sloppy and lazy. But a lazy doctor... different story all together! It's just not an option.

I'm an engineer, and work at one of the biggest industrial engineering corporations in America. There's an engineer at my job who pretends to be looking at his computer, but in actuality he is sleeping. He goes so far as to keeps his hand on the mouse so it looks like he's working! Some find it funny... some find it nervy... Personally - I don't like it.

Whatever the perception may be of that engineer, let's see a doctor try and pull that off! It wouldn't happen. I think it's harder to find a slacker among doctors, hence it must be more demanding.

 

[8744]

One thing - doctors make more money than engineers. Does that mean being a doctor poses a greater challenge? I think it does becuase there is less room for error. We all see sloppy lazy engineers, and yes we dislike them because they are sloppy and lazy. But a lazy doctor... different story all together! It's just not an option.

Wrong. I was a structural engineer. If a doctor makes a mistake, he kills one person. If I made a mistake I might have killed hundreds.

And there are sloppy, lazy doctors. They call them "Psychiatrists."

 

[evajaclynn]

Wrong. I was a structural engineer. If a doctor makes a mistake, he kills one person. If I made a mistake I might have killed hundreds.

Agreed - ever heard of Chernobyl? As a ChemE, you're constantly reminded of the ramifications of your actions! Considering I never really understood 'Kinetics & Reactor Design', its a good thing that I won't be in the ChemE field much longer. 😀

 

[Ol'Girl]

So as I'm having a nervous breakdown while cramming for a summative, I'm relieved to find that other former engineers are having issues with memorization in medical school! Can I ask how any of you successfully deal with it? While I did very well in engineering, I'm absolutely miserable trying to memorize tiny detail upon tiny detail in cell biology/biochem/tissue. I even did well in anatomy, but this is kicking my sorry arse.

In engineering, you learn by understanding and by doing (tons of psets, labs), right? I know memorization requires a lot of repetition, but what happens when you're faced with 200+ pages of material to memorize in 2 weeks, while trying to have a life as a nontrad?! 😱

 

[swedcrip]

Rarely in med school do you really have to think. It's quite a bit more memorization and the adjustment can be tough, especially anatomy. Communication skills are much more important.

There's a whole lot more different between pre-med and med school than upper level undergrad engineering courses and graduate school in engineering. The only difference in engineering I saw was the time spent in research for advanced degrees and some undergrads put forth a substantial research effort though others put forth none.

I find little understanding of engineering from non-engineering colleagues in medicine. Sometimes it's more a hindrance than a help in landing admissions/residencies IMO though mostly I don't think it much registers with anyone else unless you have really solid research achievements (publications/patents) and then those might help.

Memorization=time. Unfortunately for some it takes more time than others. I made the transition fairly easily but was also very good at memorization going way back. But it was still a tough adjustment (first few weeks of anatomy). I find it boring relative to the problem solving that goes on in engineering. But ultimately if you want a degree and training in medicine, you have to be able to find a way to succeed at memorization and to a lesser degree verbal presentations (you can get by with few skills 3rd year but to excel you need talent at speaking or tons of hard work).

Someday I might go back some into engineering, but I have no idea how my medical training will be perceived on that end. I think on the medical end, only a small percentage really get what you're able to do with your engineering background. And if you just go along with med school curriculum, you won't use any of those skills for years. In retrospect I wish I had spent some extracurricular time with the engineering department, but I'm not sure if it's that strong at my med school.

 

[8744]

So as I'm having a nervous breakdown while cramming for a summative, I'm relieved to find that other former engineers are having issues with memorization in medical school! Can I ask how any of you successfully deal with it? While I did very well in engineering, I'm absolutely miserable trying to memorize tiny detail upon tiny detail in cell biology/biochem/tissue. I even did well in anatomy, but this is kicking my sorry arse.

In engineering, you learn by understanding and by doing (tons of psets, labs), right? I know memorization requires a lot of repetition, but what happens when you're faced with 200+ pages of material to memorize in 2 weeks, while trying to have a life as a nontrad?! 😱

I just refuse to memorize things. I absolutely will not sit down in front of a list of useless trivia and commit it to memory. You will know what's important and what you need to memorize. The rest of the stuff you can always look up, or, if it is really important you will use it so often that you will know it cold.

Like I always say, in first and second year knowing what time-intensive, low-yield lectures to blow off will simplify your life, especially if your tests are all mulitple choice.

Read for concepts, dammit. Just like you do for engineering.

Don't flame me. I am a fourth year. Although my class rank was pretty low I did fairly well on Step 1 and Step 2 and have got eight interviews (possibly nine...waiting list) in a competative specialty for the match. (Emergency Medicine)

 

[katrinadams9]

Agreed - ever heard of Chernobyl? As a ChemE, you're constantly reminded of the ramifications of your actions! Considering I never really understood 'Kinetics & Reactor Design', its a good thing that I won't be in the ChemE field much longer. 😀

I'm with you on that one evajaclynnn. There were a lot of concepts that I never fully understood in CHE. Luckily, my non-engineering GPA was high enough to get me into med school (i.e. pre-med classes). I really wonder if being an engineer was one of the factors that got me into Wayne. My CHE advisor told me not to switch majors because med schools tend to look at engineers more favorably because the major was soooooo much harder than regular pre-med majors like humab bio and physio. Has anyone else seen evidence of this or was my advisor just nuts?

 

[8744]

I'm with you on that one evajaclynnn. There were a lot of concepts that I never fully understood in CHE. Luckily, my non-engineering GPA was high enough to get me into med school (i.e. pre-med classes). I really wonder if being an engineer was one of the factors that got me into Wayne. My CHE advisor told me not to switch majors because med schools tend to look at engineers more favorably because the major was soooooo much harder than regular pre-med majors like humab bio and physio. Has anyone else seen evidence of this or was my advisor just nuts?

At every residency interview I have been on, my engineering background was a plus. Many of my interviewers explicitly told me that this was one of the reasons they invited me for an interview.

 

[::Seabass::]

So as I'm having a nervous breakdown while cramming for a summative, I'm relieved to find that other former engineers are having issues with memorization in medical school! Can I ask how any of you successfully deal with it? While I did very well in engineering, I'm absolutely miserable trying to memorize tiny detail upon tiny detail in cell biology/biochem/tissue. I even did well in anatomy, but this is kicking my sorry arse.

In engineering, you learn by understanding and by doing (tons of psets, labs), right? I know memorization requires a lot of repetition, but what happens when you're faced with 200+ pages of material to memorize in 2 weeks, while trying to have a life as a nontrad?! 😱

It gets easier as you go along. After a while, you almost get annoyed when they want you to 'think' again. I know my mind feels dang sluggish when I actually have to use it these days. As an engineer I could just read my books and look at problems and just understand and be ok on a test. I rarely worked more than one practice problem of each type. It was awesome. 😀


Its weird, someone mentioned anatomy as being one of the harder courses for an engineer to adjust to but I found that and neuro anatomy to be my 'easiest' courses first year while many classmates struggled. Maybe cause I was a civil? As a second year Path is my 'easiest' to learn.

 

[swedcrip]

I breezed through neuro anatomy (last 20% of our anatomy course) and am going to be a neurologist. But anatomy being frontloaded in our curriculum as our first course may also have been a reason for needing an "adjustment". about 1/3 - 1/2 of our class needed such an "adustment" so it wasn't just us engineers (about 1/3 of our class had already learned material over the summer).

i found engineering as a mixed blessing in med school admissions. a few were impressed. most didn't care. a few really seemed to think that engineers don't make good doctors, ought to use these skills they've already trained for, or really misunderstood what the background is. i've found it to only be like this a small percentage of the time, but i really do think it can come out of nowhere to hurt you. maybe 3/100 classmates are engineers. if i wanted to just maximize my chances at med school admissions doing this again i would go back and spend more time volunteering and getting publications. but truly if i had to do it over again, i'd do it just the same (may have pushed harder for publications in my research experiences), but I'd repeat the same major and spend the time torwards it like i did.

 

[evajaclynn]

I'm with you on that one evajaclynnn. There were a lot of concepts that I never fully understood in CHE. Luckily, my non-engineering GPA was high enough to get me into med school (i.e. pre-med classes). I really wonder if being an engineer was one of the factors that got me into Wayne. My CHE advisor told me not to switch majors because med schools tend to look at engineers more favorably because the major was soooooo much harder than regular pre-med majors like humab bio and physio. Has anyone else seen evidence of this or was my advisor just nuts?

Completely agree on all points. My non-engineering GPA was waaaay higher than my engineering GPA, so thanks to anatomy, biochem, calculus, etc., my BCPM was good. Engineering definitely helped me get into med school. One of my interviewers told me that she wasn't even worried about my grades b/c the only lower grades were in ChemE courses. So I think that your advisor was right on (though usually I think advisors are nuts)! 🙂

 

[neurosurg]

I always ask my friends how med school compares to being a BME at Hopkins. And my friends tend to think that med school is very time consuming, but that engineering is wayyyy harder.

I completely agree with this. A friend of mine went to John's Hopkins School of Medicine and he says Medicine is very time consuming but it does not even come close to Engineering by any definition of "rigor and academic intelligence."

Engineering must have got the publicity that Medicine enjoys for being "hardest" if it were a lucrative career.

Please *don't* flame this, its just my opinion or a fact, if you will.

 

[Ol'Girl]

I just refuse to memorize things. I absolutely will not sit down in front of a list of useless trivia and commit it to memory. You will know what's important and what you need to memorize. The rest of the stuff you can always look up, or, if it is really important you will use it so often that you will know it cold.

Like I always say, in first and second year knowing what time-intensive, low-yield lectures to blow off will simplify your life, especially if your tests are all mulitple choice.

Read for concepts, dammit. Just like you do for engineering.

Don't flame me. I am a fourth year. Although my class rank was pretty low I did fairly well on Step 1 and Step 2 and have got eight interviews (possibly nine...waiting list) in a competative specialty for the match. (Emergency Medicine)

Good luck on the interviews. 🙂

Unfortunately, here (Pitt) we are forced to memorize useless trivia. No note-taking services, no videotaped lectures, 50% of the time no copies of the ppt. We have up to 5 hours of lecture a day, each interim exam is 50 questions, and the exams are all pure recall. Do I care what a meta-arteriole is? It showed up on the exam, and was one sentence in the 200+ pages of material. You'd think they wouldn't ask, but they did.

Perhaps the block system isn't quite for me. *shrug* This memorization thing truly blows. I do read for concepts, but they don't ask concepts. Bastards. 😡 I'm just hoping that physiology/organ systems in 2nd year will be better for me.

 

[Amit1]

I think it depends on the person. I find engineering to be fairly easy. Doing well in engineering is probably more IQ dependant. Sometimes I can understand an engineering problem much faster than others - thus saving me many hours of ass-busting. Maybe engineering just comes easy to Indians? Maybe thats why most engineering colleges have more FOB's than whites in their grad programs 😀 However, going to a well ranked engineering college in INDIA is a very different experience. Compare that to a good MD program in America, where everybody has to work hard. Not only do you have to do the engineering conceptual work - you also have to do GRUELING courses like Smithy, Machine Shop, Etc.

However in med school everybody has to do the time. There is not a single doctor out there who hasn't worked his ass off. Although the work may not DEMAND exceptional IQ to function as a doctor, the admissions criteria seem to select for it. It's not a coincidence that the profession of Physician has the honor of having the highest average IQ of any occupation out there. Yes, even a few notches above graduate engineers.

 

[gschl1234]

Which is the hardest among Medicine and Engineering? I know that getting into Medical schools is really hard, but so is getting into good Engineering schools like MIT, CalTech etc...

I have heard people saying that in Medical schools there's *alot* of material but the material is not as bad as in Engineering schools--good schools like MIT/Georgia Tech and others. They say Engineering classes are very challenging. They not have much memorization but the concepts can drive you crazy. I don't know to what extent is this comparison true? Can anyone shed some light on this?

I am currently going at Georgia Tech, and am confused on whether to go for Med school or not. Will Medical School challenge me more than Georgia Tech? Or just more material but not as *rigorous?*

Thank you!

The concepts in engineering may be more "difficult" (although that's arguable depending on what kind of learner you are) but ultimately higher-yield. Once you understand the idea, you can apply it in many ways. Also, once you understand some ideas, it’s easier to build on them and understand more and more. Much of med school (so far) seems pretty low yield because you have to memorize many pieces of information to explain how one thing works and what makes it break. Being a more conceptual person, my opinion would be that engineering is easier since it takes less time to understand a few over-arching concepts than to memorize thousands of details. It comes down to how you define "hard." In my opinion, memorizing is more difficult because it's tedious and boring. You have to have real determination, vigilance (sustained attention span) and a high threshold for pain. At least in engineering, you're constantly thinking and solving problems. It's more fun, like a game (rather than working in an assembly line: read paragraph, cover it up, recite, check, read, cover, recite, check...). Although, the perception of someone else may be completely different. Maybe some people don't find reciting notes excruciating. Maybe these people would find problem-solving boring. Either school would be challenging but in very different ways. Going to medical school just for the challenge of it is not worth your time, money or effort. If you decide to go, please do it because you actually want to be a physician.

 

[evajaclynn]

Going to medical school just for the challenge of it is not worth your time, money or effort. If you decide to go, please do it because you actually want to be a physician.

👍 👍 👍 👍

 

[JDAWG07]

I'm a bioengineering major and have been on several interviews thus far. Almost all of my interviewers that had read over my application beforehand mentioned something relating to me being an engineer. All of the feedback I received was positive. One guy even said that engineers tend to perform the best in the preclinical years.

 

[gtg162yy]

I think we are now going off the original question regarding which is challenging--Engneering or Medicine?
I know there have been many replies on this subject, but due to the subjective nature of the answer it hard to get a satisfactory answer.

However, I *slighty* tend towards drawing the following conclusion after compiling all of the previous posts:

Doing Engineering, I will be faced with many really challenging problems that will force me to work in groups--I won't be able to handle alone due to the conceptual nature of the difficulty.

Doing Medicine I will be challenged but won't be in the same manner as above--gross memorization in med. school. Thereafter, in clinical practice I will more or less be doing "pattern matching" or pattern recognition to make it look fancy with the stuffs I learned earlier.

Is this a fair conclusion?

Granted memorization is very hard, but onething that I don't understand abt memorization being challenging--in the sense that it requires intelligence--is that why would we say it needs intelligence? I mean computers can store and retrieve fast "gazzilions" of data with almost no error; however, we don't call them intelligent, do we?

 

[swedcrip]

I think we are now going off the original question regarding which is challenging--Engneering or Medicine?
I know there have been many replies on this subject, but due to the subjective nature of the answer it hard to get a satisfactory answer.

However, I *slighty* tend towards drawing the following conclusion after compiling all of the previous posts:

Doing Engineering, I will be faced with many really challenging problems that will force me to work in groups--I won't be able to handle alone due to the conceptual nature of the difficulty.

Doing Medicine I will be challenged but won't be in the same manner as above--gross memorization in med. school. Thereafter, in clinical practice I will more or less be doing "pattern matching" or pattern recognition to make it look fancy with the stuffs I learned earlier.

Is this a fair conclusion?

Onething that I don't understand abt memorization being challenging--in the sense that it requires intelligence--is that why would we say it needs intelligence? I mean computers can store and retrieve fast "gazzilions" of data with almost no error; however, we don't call them intelligent, do we?

the only thing I find challenging about memorization is the time commitment and the boredom of it.

your conclusion seems about right but within both fields there are some variations. medicine involves constantly interacting with patients and at least through medical school and residency with colleagues

 

[policymaker]

Don't flame me. I am a fourth year. Although my class rank was pretty low I did fairly well on Step 1 and Step 2 and have got eight interviews (possibly nine...waiting list) in a competative specialty for the match. (Emergency Medicine)

Thank you! I've been waiting to hear something like this. YOu are my new hero Panda Bear. 🙂

While you were studying for the boards (Step 1 specifically), how did you go about memorizing all the details? I'm not so worried about concepts, but just thinking about all the trivial minutia makes me want to go back to engineering..

And if you don't mind me asking, do you think your low class rank hurts you at all as you're applying to a competitve specialty? Do your engineering background and good board scores more than make up for it?

 

[gtg162yy]

Just for the convenience of the viewers, I am reposting this on this page(page 3) as the original one was the last post on page 2.
I apologize if it causes any inconvenience to anyone.


I know there have been many replies on this subject, but due to the subjective nature of the answer it hard to get a satisfactory answer.

However, I *slighty* tend towards drawing the following conclusion after compiling all of the previous posts:

Doing Engineering, I will be faced with many really challenging problems that will force me to work in groups--I won't be able to handle alone due to the conceptual nature of the difficulty.

Doing Medicine I will be challenged but won't be in the same manner as above--gross memorization in med. school. Thereafter, in clinical practice I will more or less be doing "pattern matching" or pattern recognition to make it look fancy with the stuffs I learned earlier.

Is this a fair conclusion?

Granted memorization is very hard, but onething that I don't understand abt memorization being challenging--in the sense that it requires intelligence--is that why would we say it needs intelligence? I mean computers can store and retrieve fast "gazzilions" of data with almost no error; however, we don't call them intelligent, do we?

 

[policymaker]

Granted memorization is very hard, but onething that I don't understand abt memorization being challenging--in the sense that it requires intelligence--is that why would we say it needs intelligence? I mean computers can store and retrieve fast "gazzilions" of data with almost no error; however, we don't call them intelligent, do we?

I don't mean to sound arrogant at all, but obviously you're not in med school yet. There's a HUGE difference between memorizing some facts in college and memorizing volumes and volumes of information in med school. The latter is like trying to fill a bucket from the Niagra falls, it just keep coming at you and your brain is constantly overflowing. That's what makes it challenging.

No one ever says going to med school requires a lot of intelligence. You just need to be very, very good at memorizing stuff. If you're looking to exercise your mind, stay with enginerring. 🙂

By the way, you bring up another point. Why can't we just have computers do all the memorization for us?

 

[8744]

Thank you! I've been waiting to hear something like this. YOu are my new hero Panda Bear. 🙂

While you were studying for the boards (Step 1 specifically), how did you go about memorizing all the details? I'm not so worried about concepts, but just thinking about all the trivial minutia makes me want to go back to engineering..

And if you don't mind me asking, do you think your low class rank hurts you at all as you're applying to a competitve specialty? Do your engineering background and good board scores more than make up for it?

Hold on while I put on my flame ******ant suit and brace myself for the onslaught of criticism about to come my way....

1. You don't have to memorize details for either Step 1 or Step 2, at least not to the extent that many people think. Most of the questions on Step 1 are of either the "What is the next step in the management of the patient" type or a variation of the "interpret this graph" or "what lab values reflect this patients condition." There were very few questions with a definite "Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome" kind of answer.

Of course, I am exagerating somewhat but only to the extent that we need to differentiate knowledge from trivia. If you have a good grasp of the concepts then you will do fine. Maybe not AOA fine but you will pass and probably do at least average or slightly better. There is no one in the world more adverse to sitting down and force memorizing a table of facts than your Uncle Panda and I did fine.

2. Best way to study for Steps 1 and 2? Easy. Get an online subscription to USMLEWorld Qbank and/or Kaplan Qbank and do practice questions untill your head explodes. Read the explanations of both your right and wrong answers and you will be well prepared. There are about 2000 Kaplan and 2000 USMLEWorld questions for Step 1 and an equal number for Step 2. After 4000 questions, which should take you a month, you will be as prepared as you can possibly be for the test. The USMLEWorld questions are almost exactly like the actual questions in both length and difficulty.

Screw reading textbooks, review course, review books, study groups, or any other method of preparation. Assuming you have been paying attention during medical school you have the knowledge up there somewhere, all you have to do is jar it loose by doing questions. I read the BRS books and High Yield for Step 1 and felt that this was a waste of time because the questions are phrased in a way to almost negate your typically superficial grasp of the subject. The Kaplan Qbank questions that I did in the last two weeks of my studying were much higher yield. For Step 2 I didn't even bother with reading and went straight to the questions for the two weeks I studied.

A very special "thumbs down" to First Aid which is the most overrated study aid out there.

3. Did my low class rank hurt me for competative specialties? No doubt it has. I applied to 24 programs and have only been invited to eight interviews with three more programs to hear from. Like John Kerry, I was skunked in North Carolina getting no interviews there even though I applied to all six of their programs. Vanderbilt sent me two rejection letters, the second presumably to make sure I knew I didn't have a chance. But like I always say, if you are hell-bent on AOA and matching into Derm at Harvard you can safely ignore my opinions on everything. I'm just trying to give advice to people like me who will never be at the top of the class either from lack of desire or lack of ability.

I am happy with the programs that did invite me for interviews, however, and they seemed to have liked me just fine. I have interviewed or will interview at El Paso, Baton Rouge, Little Rock, Temple (Texas), Shreveport, Morgantown (West Virginia), Omaha, and Louisville. I still have to hear from Lexington (Kentucky), Richmond and Charlotte (Virginia). I have not heard from Jackson, Mississippi but I applied to them by mistake as they are a four year (total) program and I am only really interested in the three year programs. I'm sure they are not interested in me but the feeling is mutual.

4. I think my engineering and military background went a long way towards compensating for my low class rank. Word of advice to some of the anti-military people on SDN: There are plenty of ex-military program directors out there, especially in Emergency Medicine.

Not to mention that the only other profession which physicians seem to respect is engineering.

 

[katrinadams9]

the only thing I find challenging about memorization is the time commitment and the boredom of it.

I couldn't agree more. It's very hard for me to concentrate long enough to memorize some of the little piddly facts when I'm bored out of my mind and can't see how any of it will be relevant in my career as a doc. At least most of the formulas we learned in engineering we could expect to use for process design and such.

All I can say is that I'm so glad I changed my mind about engineering. There's no way I'd be satisfied at a job where I'd be doing nothing but design specifications and process startups. Personally, I think medicine will be a lot more satisfying and rewarding as a career than engineering. Plus, I'd rather interact with people more than my spreadsheet and graphing calculator.

Although sometimes I feel like I miss my graphing calculator... 🙁

 

[cooldreams]

I couldn't agree more. It's very hard for me to concentrate long enough to memorize some of the little piddly facts when I'm bored out of my mind and can't see how any of it will be relevant in my career as a doc. At least most of the formulas we learned in engineering we could expect to use for process design and such.

All I can say is that I'm so glad I changed my mind about engineering. There's no way I'd be satisfied at a job where I'd be doing nothing but design specifications and process startups. Personally, I think medicine will be a lot more satisfying and rewarding as a career than engineering. Plus, I'd rather interact with people more than my spreadsheet and graphing calculator.

Although sometimes I feel like I miss my graphing calculator... 🙁

you mean you dont still have it?? i just saw that there is the ti-89 titanium edition, and it has a TON more memory in it... cool heheh...

 

[evajaclynn]

I couldn't agree more. It's very hard for me to concentrate long enough to memorize some of the little piddly facts when I'm bored out of my mind and can't see how any of it will be relevant in my career as a doc. At least most of the formulas we learned in engineering we could expect to use for process design and such.

All I can say is that I'm so glad I changed my mind about engineering. There's no way I'd be satisfied at a job where I'd be doing nothing but design specifications and process startups. Personally, I think medicine will be a lot more satisfying and rewarding as a career than engineering. Plus, I'd rather interact with people more than my spreadsheet and graphing calculator.

Although sometimes I feel like I miss my graphing calculator... 🙁

I'm working for a process engineering (ChemE) company right now. I've spent the past week plugging numbers into a computer design simulation of a complete gas processing plant - trying to maximize methane purity/recovery and get the correct heating value for the fuel gas stream. Only 6.5 more months of this and I'm outta here!!!

 

[cooldreams]

I'm working for a process engineering (ChemE) company right now. I've spent the past week plugging numbers into a computer design simulation of a complete gas processing plant - trying to maximize methane purity/recovery and get the correct heating value for the fuel gas stream. Only 6.5 more months of this and I'm outta here!!!

gee... if you are an engineer, then im guessing either you are not anxious to start med sko or the job is not that bad because do not have the med sko start time down to the second. i mean... sheesh... i do hehehe... doesnt everyone??

 

[evajaclynn]

gee... if you are an engineer, then im guessing either you are not anxious to start med sko or the job is not that bad because do not have the med sko start time down to the second. i mean... sheesh... i do hehehe... doesnt everyone??

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.....I said 6 1/2 months because I am leaving at the end of June to go travel and enjoy life before med school begins! 😉

I will be very happy to be done with this job (not that I don't enjoy the income)! 🙂

 

[cooldreams]

yea i kno wut you mean...

what is everyone doing before med sko starts up? vacations? trips? sleeping???

im looking for ideas... im thinking about trying to join up with greenpeace or something for the summer before... do something cool, different than what im doing now, but something that could potentially positively impact others...

ideas??