ER experience

[whitey]

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hey,
I was wonering what is the best way to get ER experience. From what little I know (very little) I get the impression that there are 3 ways of going about this.
1) volunteer
2) ER tech
3) take EMT course
Like many of you, I hope to eventually become a doctor. Volunteer sounds like it might be a little light weight. What is 4 hours a week going to really do for me. Taking the EMT could be a good route, but the course at Glendale CC requires two morinings and a full day each week. Kinda tough to fit that into my schedule. I live in LA if anyone has any specific gems of knowledge.
Thanks
A.W.

 

[DrQuinn]

Most medical students that go into EM have some EMS experience, and from meeting the people in my residency and tlakign to people during interviews, a lot were EMTs in college.

I was an EMT in college and also worked as an orderly in the ED during college. I would say I learned more as an EMT...

Q, DO

 

[Febrifuge]

Hey, Whitey, and welcome.

True enough, 4 hours a week as a volunteer will not make you wise in the ways of the Force. But it will get you familiar on some level with the workings of a living, breathing emergency department. It'll put you there, and if you hang around long enough you'll develop a pretty decent intuitive sense of whether you're comfortable in that setting. It takes a while, and it's even boring at times. But it's not just 4 hours a week; it's 300 hours total over a year, or whatever.

This will be invaluable later on because instead of saying lukewarm things like "I've always found that the idea of Emergency Medicine is really interesting to me," you'll be able to say things like "there was one night when a guy stumbled into the front door, with blood just dripping off the front of his shirt. A buddy of his had been whipping a bike chain around, and it caught him on the ear. I had my gloves on and was pushing a wheelchair over toward him at the same time as the triage nurse said, 'hey, you want to grab a chair?' That was one of the times I felt like I'd be good at E-med."

I'm in EMT training right now. Volunteering is getting to be cooler, since I understand more, but also more frustrating, because my scope of practice as a volunteer extends to pushing chairs and making beds, and nothing else (so the hospital doesn't get sued). But I'm glad I'm doing it. If you know how to be excellent yet stay within your scope, you can wind up with the respect of people who work in medicine, and you can help people who need it. And that is what it's all about.

 

[Ohiobuddhist]

The biggest factor is probably the quality of the experience you would get with each job. I volunteered hundreds of hours in high school and my first year of college. What did I learn? Basically, that EM was for me, and that there is an amazing spectrum of docs out there from "this-guy-just-sucks" to "holy-crap-I-wanna-be-just-like-her". I got a heck of a lot more experience in the workings of the ER and patient care by being an ER tech. I was at a pretty small ER, though, where they allowed me a lot of freedom to learn and participate in patient care. I have heard from others, that in some ERs, the techs just fill out forms. Lesson here is know what you're getting into. Personally, I have never been an EMT, just a BLS instructor. But many of my friends in med school have done it and loved the experience. Regardless, you need to get a little taste of EM I think. It isn't for everybody. And it isn't always what you think it will be. Good luck.

 

[FoughtFyr]

I think getting ER experience before Med School is GREAT!
Welcome to the party.

That said...

If you are counting on your ER "experience" to bolster an application, I should warn you now - it probably won't. I was a firefighter / paramedic for 8 years before medical school. I recieved almost no consideration for the experience beyond that which would have been given for working any job (or volunteer activity). Since my admission, I have found this is a policy at my school (not differentiating between types of employment before medical school) and I was told by a dean that this is a common practice. You might get a bit of "help" as you have proven interest in medicine, and another bit for working or volunteering, but that is it. Sorry.

One interesting story...
I was a paramedic instructor at a medical center directly affiliated with a medical school. As such, I was asked to teach the third year students "ward skills", e.g., how to defibrillate, start IVs, etc. I would have done so happily, except I had recieved a rejection letter (before interview!) the day before! Yep, I can teach there - just can't go there! And not even a courtesy interview...

I don't miss the days of med school apps. - but dang if it isn't starting again with this damn ERAS thing! 🙁

*SIGH*

- H

 

[anonymousEM]

I think all of these things give you an idea of what it's like to work in Emergency Medicine which is the number one reason you should be doing them...to decide if it's something you could do happily every day (or at least 15 out of the month) for the rest of your working life. I think, though, it's too strong to say that "most" EM residents were first EMTs or techs. Yes, many were, but of my med school class, 10% went into EM and none had done either. In med school, be involved in your EM Interest Group, get to know the PD and residents who work with you, basically show your interest and learn from those who are willing to give you their time. Another option is research, again it's just one more piece of the application puzzle, but if you have some insight into another arena, it can't hurt. It doesn't hurt to have your name in print, or just to be able to talk about the specific area you helped with when you go on your interviews. Sounds like you're pretty early on in the process. Be open to many different things and don't try to force yourself into one field...you may find through your efforts that EMs not for you...and that would be valuable as well. Good luck, hopefully we'll see you amongst us one day!

 

[Febrifuge]

Originally posted by FoughtFyr
...I was a firefighter / paramedic for 8 years before medical school. I recieved almost no consideration for the experience beyond that which would have been given for working any job (or volunteer activity). Since my admission, I have found this is a policy at my school (not differentiating between types of employment before medical school) and I was told by a dean that this is a common practice...

I was a paramedic instructor at a medical center directly affiliated with a medical school. As such, I was asked to teach the third year students "ward skills", e.g., how to defibrillate, start IVs, etc. I would have done so happily, except I had recieved a rejection letter (before interview!) the day before! Yep, I can teach there - just can't go there!

Yikes! 😱

I'm still really new to all this, but I have to wonder if all schools are like that, or if this is maybe a policy at that school/ system, or maybe that geographic region? (Or did you perhaps accidentally spill a large coffee on some adcom member's lap...)

I admire your ability to not laugh in the face of that institution, frankly. I'd probably get all huffy and insist I wouldn't want to attend a school with such an odd apparent sense of priorities.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Originally posted by Febrifuge
Yikes! 😱 I admire your ability to not laugh in the face of that institution, frankly. I'd probably get all huffy and insist I wouldn't want to attend a school with such an odd apparent sense of priorities.

No, I was a non-traditional student with an application package including a Master's degree and research trying to offset poor undergrad grades and they are a more traditional school. I didn't really expect to get in, but I thought they would at least go through the motions.

I did laugh in their face though as far as teaching and they have not been able to find paramedics to help them out since!

Even better - the next year when I was teaching an EMT-B course at another facility, I gave my usual talk on "not using an EMT cert. as a tool to get into medical school as I've been a paramedic for years and can't get in", and I had two students who were in the post-bac program at the school that rejected me. They said "that's nothing, one of our teachers told us about a paramedic who got asked to teach ward skills to our M3 class the day after he got a rejection letter from our school. (The teacher) told us that just goes to show how ridiculous the admissions process is..." I wish I had a camera when I confirmed the story firsthand - their faces were classic!

Apparently, word of my story got around. I really would have loved to be a fly on the wall at that adcom meeting. 😀

Don't worry, medical school admissions is a game of chicken - just don't be the first to quit and you are golden. In other words, if I got in anyone can!

- H

 

[Febrifuge]

Originally posted by FoughtFyr
Don't worry, medical school admissions is a game of chicken - just don't be the first to quit and you are golden. In other words, if I got in anyone can!- H

It's good to hear the story has a happy ending... especially since, uh, I'm a non-trad student who needs to make up for thoroughly undistinguished undergrad grades... <cough>.

 

[Jeff698]

Originally posted by FoughtFyr
No, I was a non-traditional student with an application package including a Master's degree and research trying to offset poor undergrad grades and they are a more traditional school. I didn't really expect to get in, but I thought they would at least go through the motions.

Wow, what an amazing coincidence. Your background sounds very much like mine but I had much different luck in the application crap shoot. I suspect it makes a lot of difference where you're applying.

I'd been a paramedic 12 years at the time I applied, had a masters in EMS and about 6 years teaching & admininistration/reasearch. At the time, I was the program director of our paramedic AAS degree program.

I think my background helped tremendously (it certainly wasn't my undergrad grades!) in getting interviews. Several of the folks I interviewed with told me what a difference it made to my application.

I applied to most of the Texas schools. Granted, some of them gave me the 'you're too stupid to be a doctor' letter but others were very open. I also applied to several out-of-state DO schools and found them to be open as well.

I absolutely agree with you about the arbitrary nature of the process. It all depends on where you apply, who reads your application at that school and if their kids spilled their rice crispies in their lap that morning. Sad but true.

Take care,
Jeff MS-III
UTMB
Galveston, TX