Ethical Question: Filling for yourself

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BustyPharmD

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Am I allowed to fill and check my own Rx's or should someone else do this? Can I fill and someone else check? Or should someone else fill then I check?

What's the proper way to getting my own precription filled other than going to another pharmacy?
 
Only thing you might not want to do is count your controlled prescriptions.
 
BustyPharmD said:
Am I allowed to fill and check my own Rx's or should someone else do this? Can I fill and someone else check? Or should someone else fill then I check?

What's the proper way to getting my own precription filled other than going to another pharmacy?
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I think it is unethical.

You have three options

1) Go the ethically gray route of filling it yourself....

2) Have another pharmacist at your store fill it, knowing they know the medications you take

3) Go to another store, even if it is inconvenient for you.
 
It is absolutely ethical. There are no Federal or State Laws or codes of practice that prohibit the practice. When you go to the register to pay and they ask you if you have any questions for yourself, you can say NO.
 
CUbeav said:
I think it is unethical.

You have three options

1) Go the ethically gray route of filling it yourself....

2) Have another pharmacist at your store fill it, knowing they know the medications you take

3) Go to another store, even if it is inconvenient for you.
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What exactly is unethical about it?
 
How is it unethical? You didn't write the script, as far as you're concerned, you're just putting pills into a bottle (as a tech) and/or verifying the order (as a pharmacist). It'd be unethical/illegal if you didn't dispense as written, etc... (same as any other script).

Is it unethical for you to buy APAP or PSE OTC? They're both "controlled" in some manner.

I filled my own scripts all the time, heck, I'd fill my friends' scripts too and deliver them when I saw them next. No problem, no harm, no foul.
 
It would only be unethical if you knowingly filled the prescription incorrectly or maintained false records.

Self-filling controls, while also perfectly ethical, might be a bad idea in case discrepancies come up later. You'll be an easy target, even if you had nothing to do with it.

I also probably wouldn't take and fill a telephone order for myself, but I know others who do. That's just me though.
 
MountainPharmD said:
What exactly is unethical about it?
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The way I see it, the potential for discrepancies is high, especially for controls. If there were ever a time where you screwed up doing this, you'd have absolutely no defense. I feel as if it is a conflict of interest- you could fill for more pills than written and no one would ever know the difference - even after counts are taken-because it would be harder than hell to trace which script the discrepancy was on if the drug is filled at least moderately.

I'm sure I'll be corrected, but if you have another pharmacist at your store, have them do it...is this question not about the degree to which the pharmacist filling their own med is inconvenienced?

Maybe I'm taking the word "ethical" wrong. I don't feel it is right personally to fill your own script.
 
CUbeav said:
The way I see it, the potential for discrepancies is high, especially for controls. If there were ever a time where you screwed up doing this, you'd have absolutely no defense. I feel as if it is a conflict of interest- you could fill for more pills than written and no one would ever know the difference - even after counts are taken-because it would be harder than hell to trace which script the discrepancy was on if the drug is filled at least moderately.

I'm sure I'll be corrected, but if you have another pharmacist at your store, have them do it...is this question not about the degree to which the pharmacist filling their own med is inconvenienced?

Maybe I'm taking the word "ethical" wrong. I don't feel it is right personally to fill your own script.
Click to expand...

There are not always two pharmacists on duty. Have your tech double count everything you do. If you work for a chain, it's all on film anyway. There may be potential to incriminate yourself, but that does not make it unethical. For the most part pharmacists don't take a great deal of medication. There is no ethical problem. Please explain why it is an ethical violation.
 
CUbeav said:
The way I see it, the potential for discrepancies is high .... If there were ever a time where you screwed up doing this, you'd have absolutely no defense.


I don't feel it is right personally to fill your own script.
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So is your definition of "unethical" a situation where there's a high potential for discrepancies/errors?

Laws are in place such that knowingly screwing up your own prescription would be treated as though you screwed up someone else's script...except you have the benefit of claiming ignorance (and being believed) if it's someone else's script. If you reverse the logic, correctly filling your own script is equivalent to correctly filling someone else's script. If you attach "unethical" to the former, the latter would be classified as so, and the logic falls apart.

I hope this gets hashed out now, we have too many pharmacists afraid of their own shadow and making up rules/constraints that aren't necessary. I think there was a thread on that topic a while back.
 
Old Timer said:
There are not always two pharmacists on duty. Have your tech double count everything you do. If you work for a chain, it's all on film anyway. There may be potential to incriminate yourself, but that does not make it unethical. For the most part pharmacists don't take a great deal of medication. There is no ethical problem. Please explain why it is an ethical violation.
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ethics: is a branch of philosophy which seeks to address questions about morality, according to wikipedia.

Morals are different for everyone. I feel that it is too easy for someone to decide that they don't want to play by the rules when it is just themselves they are having the conversation with (as opposed to another rph who has a license to protect.)

I understand that there are not always 2 rph's on duty. However, the great majority of us are in close proximity to another pharmacy if that is the case.

Regardless, this point is moot. Who cares? There are clearly two sides to this issue...and if I don't want to fill for myself that hurts no one else. I feel that it is easy for me to go down the street to the next pharmacy and remove all doubt of wrongdoing rather than fill my own script for the sake of convenience.
 
I don't know about what pharmacies you guys work in, but in mine, there are so many cameras pointed behind the counter, with pretty sophisticated lenses, it feels like I'm on that show Big Brother.

I would have no qualms dispensing for myself, since those cameras know what I'm doing.

I definitely see CUBeav's standpoint though - Why take the risk? Perception is often the same as reality and it's better not to have to explain yourself and avoid the situation entirely, I guess.

Maybe it's a relative situation with variables including how many other people you work with, precedent, etc.
 
First of all, risk has nothing to do with this. There is no two sides of this. There are not even 1+1/2 sides of this. There is NO moral or ethical issue. There is no company policy against this, there is no guidance from any national organization against this. This is a figment of your imagination. Neither the APHA or NARD or any other major pharmacy group mentions this.

You will be an excellent pharmacist. Like most pharmacists you invent rules and regulations that only exist in your mind.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I stopped reading right there. Come on people wikipedia is not a credible reference for anything...EVER.
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I asked an MS3 what a satellite lesion was and he wasn't sure, so I told him to look it up. He went straight to Wikipedia. I got up and walked out.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I stopped reading right there. Come on people wikipedia is not a credible reference for anything...EVER.
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We are not talking about practice guidelines or anything to do with patient care...looking up the definition of ethics on wikipedia for a meaningless conversation is hardly a federal offense.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I stopped reading right there. Come on people wikipedia is not a credible reference for anything...EVER.
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I agree. Just don't tell that to "ffpickle", he almost had a seizure when I called him out on this in a previous thread.
 
CUbeav said:
We are not talking about practice guidelines or anything to do with patient care...looking up the definition of ethics on wikipedia for a meaningless conversation is hardly a federal offense.
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Yes it is. If you cannot find a better source than wikipedia you have problems. It is never acceptable.
 
Old Timer said:
First of all, risk has nothing to do with this. There is no two sides of this. There are not even 1+1/2 sides of this. There is NO moral or ethical issue. There is no company policy against this, there is no guidance from any national organization against this. This is a figment of your imagination. Neither the APHA or NARD or any other major pharmacy group mentions this.

You will be an excellent pharmacist. Like most pharmacists you invent rules and regulations that only exist in your mind.
Click to expand...

Do you tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they are making sh** up?

I did not claim that any company or pharmacy organization had a policy on this issue. The OP asked if it was ethical to fill for yourself. I do not believe it is, but I also don't care if the rph's I know fill their own scripts.

Morality and ethics are by definition a subjective set of rules we have made up in our heads, so why is it surprising that I have a slightly different definition than you do?
 
CUbeav said:
Do you tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they are making sh** up?

I did not claim that any company or pharmacy organization had a policy on this issue. The OP asked if it was ethical to fill for yourself. I do not believe it is, but I also don't care if the rph's I know fill their own scripts.

Morality and ethics are by definition a subjective set of rules we have made up in our heads, so why is it surprising that I have a slightly different definition than you do?
Click to expand...

Professional ethical standards are agreed upon by the profession. Supported by something. Your view is it may be unethical to fill prescriptions on blue paper? Because you say so? That doesn't work. You have to base it on something. Give some State Board, some Code (moral or otherwise), some professional organization, something you can base your view on.

As a pharmacist you have the right to refuse to fill any prescription presented to you. But if you don't have anything to back up your assertion you will probably be fired and reprimanded by the State Board. You can't go before the board and say I made it up in my head. Also if it's an ethical violation, you would be duty bound to report it to your superior. The bar is set pretty high and you have come nowhere close to meeting it.
 
I don't think it is very ethical for a pharmacist to fill their own prescription if it is for a controlled drug. There isn't another person to verify that the script hasn't been altered or is fake.

Before I get slammed, I also don't feel it is ethical for a physician to write for a controlled drug for him/herself or family/friends.
 
teri78 said:
I don't think it is very ethical for a pharmacist to fill their own prescription if it is for a controlled drug. There isn't another person to verify that the script hasn't been altered or is fake.

Before I get slammed, I also don't feel it is ethical for a physician to write for a controlled drug for him/herself or family/friends.
Click to expand...

As I said before, if you have no basis other than "that's what I think", you have nothing.

Give me a code from the APHA, NARD, ASHP,AMA, somebody or some oath or something to back up your claim.

You may feel the pharmacist could possibly draw suspicion to him or her self if he or she chooses to fill his or her own prescription. That has nothing to do with ethics.

The AMA has guidelines about physicians prescribing for themselves or family members. Some states have legal restrictions. You have something to speak about on that issue, but as far as I no there are no ethical barriers to filling your own rx.
 
teri78 said:
There isn't another person to verify that the script hasn't been altered or is fake.
Click to expand...

Right, but most of the time (in a 1 RPh store), there's no one else to verify that the script hasn't been altered/is fake with respect to any other script that comes into the pharmacy. Is it unethical to fill those as well? Based on your logic, it would be.
 
When I was working in retail, the company I worked for did not allow staff to fill their own prescriptions. I assumed it was because they just preferred to not give anyone the chance to do anything sketchy.

Personally, I would prefer someone else to fill my prescription regardless though just so that there would never be any reason for suspicion.
 
pharmdinfl said:
When I was working in retail, the company I worked for did not allow staff to fill their own prescriptions. I assumed it was because they just preferred to not give anyone the chance to do anything sketchy.

Personally, I would prefer someone else to fill my prescription regardless though just so that there would never be any reason for suspicion.
Click to expand...

And that is perfectly acceptable. It's just not an ethical issue....
 
confettiflyer said:
Right, but most of the time (in a 1 RPh store), there's no one else to verify that the script hasn't been altered/is fake with respect to any other script that comes into the pharmacy. Is it unethical to fill those as well? Based on your logic, it would be.
Click to expand...


No, because you are verifying someone else's script, not your own that you yourself may have altered or forged.
 
FYI:

In case anyone is interested to know what happend.

I went ahead typed, filled, and checked my own script. However, I also had another pharmacist do the final check. And it was done. I don't think there was any conflict of interest or ethics broken. I think the pharmacy liked that fact that I gave them a few more to do. I didn't want to go to another pharmacy. It was more convenient to do the work at my own pharmacy and know that no one dropped the pills and put them into a bottle =) , my analness comes out.

thanks everyone for your input and unique points of views!
 
teri78 said:
No, because you are verifying someone else's script, not your own that you yourself may have altered or forged.
Click to expand...

the keyword is "may" have altered or forged. there are already laws covering this, so a pharmacist in collusion with a pt and an altered script is held to a different (lesser) standard than a pharmacist altering and filing his/her own medication? In both situations, an illegal act w/ mens rea has occurred.

again, this appears to boil down to the likelihood of being caught...see my post above for that argument.
 
Old Timer said:
It is absolutely ethical. There are no Federal or State Laws or codes of practice that prohibit the practice. When you go to the register to pay and they ask you if you have any questions for yourself, you can say NO.
Click to expand...
What about Esteem Database?
 
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