I am considering to do an away rotation at either Weil Cornell, University of Michigan, Georgetown, University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, or Mayo Clinic. I was also hoping to get a letter from the PD at whichever program I rotate at. I was wondering if anyone has had/heard of any positive/negative experiences at any of these sites. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Experience on Dermatology Away Rotations
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Good luck. 😆
I honestly don't think I can get into any of these programs but I was hoping to do one of those as my first rotation and just get a good letter out of it. My home school does not have a derm residency so I need to go to another university to get my letter and figured it would probably be best to go to a big academic institution where the PD would be very well known.
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I was more giggling bc all these institutions are all so very different. Not to mention, you will be rotating with a variety of attendings (not just one) with other rotators so it's very difficult to classify a rotation as positive or negative based on that. Also, since PDs get asked by a lot of 1 month rotators to write letters, it's important to choose a specific place based on how you look on paper currently. For example, if you are from a small public state school with no derm dept., then UPenn, for example, is probably not a strategic place for you to rotate at for your purposes. The letter from that PD probably won't be that strong, esp. with just a 4 week interaction with faculty. You want a great letter, not just a bland, generic letter and it doesn't just have to come from a PD at a big institution, esp. when you don't get to interact with the PD that much.
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Probably not the best approach. I did an away at a well known academic program and didn't once see the PD. Out of 6 rotators, only 2 of us even got letters from an attending.
If that is the case than what would you recommend? All of those are programs that I would love to attend but I just don't think I would be able to match at those programs because I am not from a top tier medical school and these are all top tier programs. Do you think I would be better off rotating at programs where I have a better chance of matching and also getting letters from those programs?
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Um, yes. That's the general idea of doing audition rotations.
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If you are going to do two away rotations, it would be worthwhile to do a rotation at a place with a history of interviewing and accepting rotators and in particular, rotators from your school.
Your second rotation can then be at a "reach" program. Regarding advice on how a program treats rotators is unfortunately difficult to come by. Very few are going to volunteer that information to you on a message board. It would be best to speak with the students who just matched this year from your school to see if they can provide any insight on which aways are worthwhile. If that fails, you may have to (respectfully) reach out to the residents at those programs for their advice.
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the suggestion of doing one reach program and one place that has a good track record of accepting students from my school. I am also planning to do an additional 2 week rotation (not for credit) at another institution that commonly accepts students from my school and one home institution rotation (even though we don't have a derm residency)
Any suggestions on if I should do the "reach" program first or the institution that has a good record of accepting students from my school. I was hoping to get a letter from one/both of these rotations if possible and then do my home rotation last because I have already worked with this PI and she has already told me she would write me a letter.
Thanks again for all the good help.
Any suggestions on if I should do the "reach" program first or the institution that has a good record of accepting students from my school. I was hoping to get a letter from one/both of these rotations if possible and then do my home rotation last because I have already worked with this PI and she has already told me she would write me a letter.
Thanks again for all the good help.
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You are going to get different answers from different people. I've found most places will require you to do a home rotation first before you can actually start on your aways. If that's the case, I would do home, the program where you have the better shot, and then the reach.
It's easy to say that you'll be 100% focused by the 3rd rotation but unfortunately, derm rotations for students are fairly hands off and even the best students will have fatigue setting in by the 3rd month of doing nothing but staring at others work.
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Why are you doing a rotations at you home institution when it doesn't have a derm residency? Is it at a community hospital affiliated with your school?
I am doing a dermatology rotation with my home program because we are required to do one rotation in an outpatient clinic. I figured it would just be logical to do this in dermatology (although we can chose any outpatient clinic including surgical, IM specialties, etc). I will probably do this rotation third though because I would want to do my away rotations before interviews and earlier in order to get a letter of recommendation.
Most of the places I am looking at rotating do not require, or state that they require, a home rotation prior to an away rotation so I don't think this should be an issue and with speaking with students who rotated in the past most of them did away rotations prior to a home rotation because the earliest I can do an away rotation in September which is already pretty late. I am planning to do one rotation in September and one in October and then a home rotation in November.
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I like asmallchild's approach. I think its a great way to balance your desire for a reach program but also make your experiences useful toward matching.
Is there anyway you can get these rotations earlier? September, October, and November is very late for letters, publications like case reports, etc.
I know you don't have a home program derm residency but I think doing the rotation earlier will get you more tuned up and ready to shine at the away rotations. If you don't have a home derm residency, then I don't see the point in doing a home derm rotation in Nov since that's too late for letter. I would rather get a good experience in outpatient ID or rheum since that will be more relevant to being a good dermatologist.
Is there anyway you can get these rotations earlier? September, October, and November is very late for letters, publications like case reports, etc.
I know you don't have a home program derm residency but I think doing the rotation earlier will get you more tuned up and ready to shine at the away rotations. If you don't have a home derm residency, then I don't see the point in doing a home derm rotation in Nov since that's too late for letter. I would rather get a good experience in outpatient ID or rheum since that will be more relevant to being a good dermatologist.
Unfortunately the earliest I can do an away rotation would be September and I am doing a 2 week elective in August as a warm-up. When are letters of recommendation/applications usually do? Would I be able to get a letter from my September rotation or would that be too late? Also, how many of the three letters are recommended to come from dermatology? I was planning to get 1 letter from my medicine clerkship and 2 derm letters or would I be better off getting all three from dermatology. I did very well on my medicine and surgery clerkships and basically have a walk on water recommendation from both clerkships with Shelf scores in the 90s. The only "disadvantage" of these letters is that they are probably coming from people who are not very well known in the field (affiliated with a small community program)
Also, I rethought the plan of doing a home derm rotation and think I will actually be doing some other type of outpatient. I am planning to do inpatient ID so my outpatient will probably be something else not sure yet.
Also, I rethought the plan of doing a home derm rotation and think I will actually be doing some other type of outpatient. I am planning to do inpatient ID so my outpatient will probably be something else not sure yet.
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I recommend 3 letters from dermatologists and the sooner you can get them (ideally July/Aug/Sept), the better
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Does anybody know the nature of Baylor College of Medicine's track record for accepting people from state schools other than Texas schools? I got an invitation to rotate there and am contemplating wether it would be helpful for my chances to match, or should I rotate at a less competitive program? Any info would be helpful.
I rotated at Baylor last summer and received a great education! Dr. Hsu is amazing as is all the staff I came in contact with. Be helpful, interested and ask questions and there really is no reason not to rotate there. Good luck 🙂
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I could be wrong but I think @ballerdoc is more wondering whether it's worth rotating based on who they match. Certain programs (I'm talking in general, not necessarily Baylor), tend to look toward their own when it comes to matching people (being "inbred"), so at certain places it may not be worth rotating if they're going to take someone in-house anyways. That doesn't mean of course, you can't get a good LOR.
Always helps to look at previous match lists to see who they match, and if they went med school out of state, if they actually audition rotated there.
Thanks, DermVisor! I believe they weren't necessarily partial to their own as I understood it. That said, the letters of recommendation I received from Baylor (I had no home derm program) and my other rotation truly helped me match into a school I didn't rotate at. I learned so much from both and was able to bring the knowledge to my interviews. If you have a choice to rotate at a medical school you would like to attend for residency and believe you have a chance to match there, great! Coming from a fairly new med school I had to believe that someone would give me a chance at a rotation. The choices were random...the experience, staff at both and letters of recommendation...priceless 
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Thanks, DermVisor! I believe they weren't necessarily partial to their own as I understood it. That said, the letters of recommendation I received from Baylor (I had no home derm program) and my other rotation truly helped me match into a school I didn't rotate at. I learned so much from both and was able to bring the knowledge to my interviews. If you have a choice to rotate at a medical school you would like to attend for residency and believe you have a chance to match there, great! Coming from a fairly new med school I had to believe that someone would give me a chance at a rotation. The choices were random...the experience, staff at both and letters of recommendation...priceless
That's why I think it's very important to honestly characterize how you look on paper before flying off to an audition rotation. You don't want to overshoot. Looking at prior match lists helps so that you can see patterns. Each piece of your app is part of the entire puzzle that's you. Part of that puzzle is - the tier of medical school you attend, whether your medical school has a home derm residency program gold star if you have a well-known derm program, etc. That being said, if you look at the match list, there are people who have matched from schools that don't have a Derm residency program.
All applicants are not treated the same in this process, which is hard for some people to understand this. You understand more when you're on the other side looking at ERAS applications, which some programs allow their residents to look and see who would be a good fit.
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DermViser is dead-on on the last post. Applicants are not equal even when invited to an interview. Sounds crappy to hear that but it's true. Programs have their favorites ahead of time. The good (or may be bad) news is that there is no way to predict who will come up as a favorite except for that rare applicant that truly does have all the ducks lined up in a row. Some programs will perseverate on scores while other perseverate on subjective features when coming up with the final rank list. The best scenario is when you have a connection (either cultivated through your hard work or through a personal contact).
Edited: DermViser clearly didn't die...just dead-on and not dead....lol
Edited: DermViser clearly didn't die...just dead-on and not dead....lol
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If you are considering doing a dermatology away rotation at University of Chicago in hopes of getting an interview there, make sure that you do NOT choose the NorthShore location. On ERAS, the NorthShore location looks as though it is completely affiliated with University of Chicago, but in reality, most of the attendings don't even know anyone on faculty at the University of Chicago campus and NONE of them have any say whatsoever in the interview process. They do have "Clinical faculty" appointments (whatever that means), but it is truly just a private clinic in Skokie with absolutely zero academic affiliation outside of the name. You never even go to the main campus or interact with a single University of Chicago attending or resident (derm residents at University of Chicago do not rotate at the Skokie clinic). In fact, many of the dermatologists asked me why I was rotating with them and did not understand why their chair had listed the rotation in such a misleading way on ERAS.
In short, if you are looking for a great month learning dermatology at a high-volume, fast paced clinic with smart, nice, and efficient private practice dermatologists, I'd recommend NorthShore. However, if you are looking to gain exposure to the University of Chicago program, get a letter of recommendation or interview, or even just meet a single person on faculty at University of Chicago, do NOT rotate here.
In short, if you are looking for a great month learning dermatology at a high-volume, fast paced clinic with smart, nice, and efficient private practice dermatologists, I'd recommend NorthShore. However, if you are looking to gain exposure to the University of Chicago program, get a letter of recommendation or interview, or even just meet a single person on faculty at University of Chicago, do NOT rotate here.
On the ACGME website - Northshore is not even listed as a clinical site for the Pritzker derm residency, but is a teaching affiliate for the Pritzker medical school. That's probably why it had the elective thru VSAS even though Skokie is 30 minutes from Chicago. None of the Northshore derm people are even listed on Pritzker Derm's website.
