Expunged felony and how it could potentially ruin chances?

[emevol]

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Hi everyone, newbie here. Just wanted some advice from your end, particularly from those who have experienced this (like all 2 of you...) or those who have at least known someone in a similiar situation. Anyone please?

About 5 years prior, when I was 20, I was arrested for a drug felony. I dont want to bother you with details, but I'll tell you, I worked hard to turn it into a positive. Completed a pre-trial diversion program and had the charge nolle processed, worked at my university as a lab instructor for organic and bio, graduated, volunteered, spoke at highschools. Fun stuff that I knew I had it in me to do! Then had it expunged (most terrifying experience ever, but represented myself because my attorney didn't show...no joke).

I'd like to breathe a sigh of relief for the expungement.....but I know better. I know this can and probably will affect me for the rest of my life. I live in the state of Florida. Of course, I will be honest on all my applications about it.

What should I expect? What type of questions are on the apps regarding this? Have you known any honest souls who were accepted even with expunged felonies? I refuse to lie about it bc that's just stupid...so what are my chances? Thanks so much for hearing me out. I appreciate any help.

 

[2008orbust]

YOu are asked if you have ever been convicted of a crime. Then you are asked to elaborate.

 

[emevol]

I was definitely at fault. But thankfully, not convicted.
I'm wondering if applications differ in their wording of it? I read something about some of them asking if you have ever committed a crime?

 

[NTF]

You may want to talk to a lawyer about the legal nuances of expungement and how it applies to answering questions on the applications. I agree you should never lie if directly asked or intentionally obfuscate. But I also do not think it is your responsibility to disclose every detail and wrongdoing unless explicitly asked.
That being said, I really have no idea how adcoms will handle this one way or the other. There's a part of me that find your whole journey and the experiences you've whethered very compelling and believe it could be the kind of thing that really sets you apart from others. But that's purely my conjecture. An adcom person could very well hold it against you, though from the adcom people I've met they don't seem extremely judgemental about past transgressions as long as you have a demonstrated record of repairing them (which you seem to have.)

Congrats on turning yourself around. That is a tremendous accomplishment bigger then getting into med school.

 

[rockydoc]

some of them ask if you have ever been convicted OR charged OR plead "no contest" to a felony or criminal misdemeanor.......HOWEVER, your expungement may be a loophole....personally I would probably draft a very explanatory email about the whole situation and send that out to every medical school with the secondary......also, call the florida bureau of investigation and see if expunged records show up on CBC's or not....that will also help you decide......and on a last note, you should use the search funct. and look for previous threads on this topic as I know there have been some

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

Hi everyone, newbie here. Just wanted some advice from your end, particularly from those who have experienced this (like all 2 of you...) or those who have at least known someone in a similiar situation. Anyone please?

About 5 years prior, when I was 20, I was arrested for a drug felony. I dont want to bother you with details, but I'll tell you, I worked hard to turn it into a positive. Completed a pre-trial diversion program and had the charge nolle processed, worked at my university as a lab instructor for organic and bio, graduated, volunteered, spoke at highschools. Fun stuff that I knew I had it in me to do! Then had it expunged (most terrifying experience ever, but represented myself because my attorney didn't show...no joke).

I'd like to breathe a sigh of relief for the expungement.....but I know better. I know this can and probably will affect me for the rest of my life. I live in the state of Florida. Of course, I will be honest on all my applications about it.

What should I expect? What type of questions are on the apps regarding this? Have you known any honest souls who were accepted even with expunged felonies? I refuse to lie about it bc that's just stupid...so what are my chances? Thanks so much for hearing me out. I appreciate any help.

If it was nolle prossed, then you weren't convicted, and if you weren't convicted, on your AMCAS app, you won't have to even mention it. They explicitly ask you if you were ever convicted of a misdemeanor/felony, and indicate that simply being charged does not warrant inclusion.

It could come up on a background check, but that will occur after you're admitted, and since you wouldn't be required to disclose it during the app process, they'd have a hard time yanking your acceptance.

Congrats on not being convicted - had you been, it may have presented an insurmountable challenge.

 

[Danbo1957]

Getting into med school with an expunged felony is problamatic, but being able to get a state medical license and a DEA number (with the expunged felony) after the background check is another problem. Lawyer up.

 

[URHere]

I am fairly sure that you don't need to say anything about expunged charges during the application process. I think many secondaries specifically mention this (something along the lines of "list all convictions not including minor traffic violations or expunged offenses").

In general, once an offense is expunged, it should be removed from public access (meaning that it shouldn't come up on a background check). However, you may run into other problems down the line, so if I were you, I would have a lawyer check into things.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

The point you guys are missing is that the expungement was of the arrest record, since he wasn't convicted of the crime. May it show up on a background check even though it was expunged? Sure, but since he won't have to disclose it while applying, it's not going to preclude an acceptance and eventual licensure.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

I am fairly sure that you don't need to say anything about expunged charges during the application process. I think many secondaries specifically mention this (something along the lines of "list all convictions not including minor traffic violations or expunged offenses").

In general, once an offense is expunged, it should be removed from public access (meaning that it shouldn't come up on a background check). However, you may run into other problems down the line, so if I were you, I would have a lawyer check into things.

Unfortunately, they often do show up on background checks even if they were expunged. Once the data is pulled into the data collector's db, they don't bother going through and removing it if a record if expunged.

None of this should make any difference to the OP, however.

 

[JDOC13]

My understanding is that expungement means they destroy all records as if nothing ever happened. Assuming the record no longer exists, I see no reason why you need to disclose this information to anyone.

 

[emevol]

There's a part of me that find your whole journey and the experiences you've whethered very compelling and believe it could be the kind of thing that really sets you apart from others. But that's purely my conjecture. An adcom person could very well hold it against you, though from the adcom people I've met they don't seem extremely judgemental about past transgressions as long as you have a demonstrated record of repairing them (which you seem to have.)
Congrats on turning yourself around. That is a tremendous accomplishment bigger then getting into med school.

That was really, very kind of you and made my day to hear. I can't even begin to tell you how much it meant to me to turn it all around. To know that anyone would be able to look beyond it and hopefully see what I have done to correct it is all I could ever ask for.

 

[emevol]

Unfortunately, they often do show up on background checks even if they were expunged. Once the data is pulled into the data collector's db, they don't bother going through and removing it if a record if expunged.

Yea, I absolutely knew that and that scares the hell out of me. Even if they don't directly ask me, after the acceptance (granted there is one...lol), they can pull it up. As far as I know, all it will say is the date followed by the statement "record expunged." I'm sure they have the right to ask me about it and I will definitely own up to it and explain. But, do they have the right to send me packing right then and there?

I think an expunged case (but not the record or details themselves) will be revealed in a criminal background check done by government agencies, liscencing boards, & private and public schools. Expungement and non-conviction is the best I could have hoped for, but I think it will still ruin me. 🙁

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

Yea, I absolutely knew that and that scares the hell out of me. Even if they don't directly ask me, after the acceptance (granted there is one...lol), they can pull it up. As far as I know, all it will say is the date followed by the statement "record expunged." I'm sure they have the right to ask me about it and I will definitely own up to it and explain. But, do they have the right to send me packing right then and there?

I think an expunged case (but not the record or details themselves) will be revealed in a criminal background check done by government agencies, liscencing boards, & private and public schools. Expungement and non-conviction is the best I could have hoped for, but I think it will still ruin me. 🙁

I still have some faith in the American system, and since we're purportedly innocent until proven guilty, that you don't have a conviction means you didn't necessarily do anything wrong, and I would expect that's how it would be viewed.

I do not know the legality of a rescinded acceptance based upon something you were not required to disclose, but I find it unlikely med schools would even be interested in doing so. Their concerns are twofold: 1, that you're honest and upstanding and that you didn't deliberately make any materially false statements on your application and 2, that whatever you have in your record is not going to preclude your eventual licensure. You're fine on the first count, and I do not see why licensure would be an issue without a conviction, even with an arrest record appearing on a background check.

Naturally, you are going to want to consult someone with specific knowledge of how such situations have played out in the past for others, as well as determine what the licensing rules are.

My gut feeling is that you'll be fine, and I hope you will be. One f-up like this shouldn't preclude you from being a physician. Best of luck.

 

[emevol]

Naturally, you are going to want to consult someone with specific knowledge of how such situations have played out in the past for others, as well as determine what the licensing rules are.
My gut feeling is that you'll be fine, and I hope you will be. One f-up like this shouldn't preclude you from being a physician. Best of luck.

That's so awesome of you, thank you. Someone above suggested that I contact the Florida FBI. Then I guess I could call the Florida Licensing Board, even call and "vaguely" ask some schools about it without giving my name??? HAHAHAHHAA. That sounds so lame, doesn't it? I have a feeling they are not going to just offer this information to me. Advice?

 

[cargirl110]

I was charged with an alcohol violation five years ago. Like you, I completed a pre-trial diversion and it was "expunged from my record," or so I thought. I have called the court and they told me that if someone performs a background on me, the charge will still appear, but it will say nolle prossed next to it, informing the one who is performing the check that I was never convicted.

On certain secondary applications, they ask if you have been charged with something. In that case, you have to answer yes and than elaborate. But since you completed the diversion, you answer no to being convicted since you never were. However, when people still perform a background check on you, that charge will still show up.

In reality, "expunged from your record" does not mean nothing comes up on your check. I thought that is what was initially meant by it, but it is not.

 

[emevol]

On certain secondary applications, they ask if you have been charged with something. In that case, you have to answer yes and than elaborate. But since you completed the diversion, you answer no to being convicted since you never were. However, when people still perform a background check on you, that charge will still show up.

I'm sorry to hear that you too have experienced something similiar. Are you afraid to apply? Or have you already? Do you think they could deny applicants with such histories in the secondary process?

 

[cargirl110]

I'm sorry to hear that you too have experienced something similiar. Are you afraid to apply? Or have you already? Do you think they could deny applicants with such histories in the secondary process?

I will be starting medical school in August.

If you have true desires to become a doctor, it will shine through in you personality and application. You have changed your life around and worked hard. It will show.

I think they will look upon your history and see what you have done beyond that. Are your grades good? Did you volunteer and put effort into other activities? Have you been in trouble with the law since?

Also, when you do have to answer, yes, you have space to explain your situation. I would keep it very simple. Usually, on mine, I wrote "I was charged with XXXX on XXXX. However, I completed the diversion program and my charge was nolle prossed on XXX." This was usually sufficient and if they wanted to know more, they would/can ask. Don't let this hinder you if you really want to become a doctor.

 

[LizzyM]

Some schools give all "admitted" applicants a "provisional admission" pending the Criminal Background Check (CBC). So, they then do the CBC prior to the first day of classes and toss anyone who doesn't measure up. (Actually a very, very rare occurence). As mentioned, the reasons for tossing someone would be dishonesty in the admissions process (not an issue as you can honestly say that you have never been convicted of a felony) or if you have something that would preclude you from getting a DEA license or a state license to practice medicine, or make you ineligible to rotate at the VA (almost all school have rotations at the VA hospitals and the VA requires a CBC to root out terrorism and evil doers). I'd hope that a charge that is expunged would NOT preclude getting a DEA license but you never know, particularly if the charge related to dealing drugs.

To be on the safe side, consult with a lawyer who handles professional licensing issues. The local Bar Association may be able to refer you to someone.

I think that med school/med licensing types are going to be very careful about anyone with even a whiff of "drug dealing" in their past. On the other hand, if you've never been convicted, you've never been convicted.

 

[Marcus Brody]

This is med school not the CIA. You'll be OK.

 

[ChairmanMao]

First off, the whole background check isn't necessarily meant to prevent someone from being accepted by a medical school, I think that by law, schools can't deny you admissions simply because you have a criminal history. The background check is there to ensure that you'll be able to get your medical license and practice AFTER you graduate from medical school. Schools that reject applicants who have felonies (even expunged ones) may actually be doing the applicant a favor. There's nothing quite worst than being accepted by a medical school, and then be denied from practicing since by that time, you would have wasted four years and be $200,000 in debt.

In somes cases, OP you may have to disclose it on the school's application, just to make sure that you're in the clear. I know that the background checks that they do on residents are much more stringent than the ones that they do on medical students. Also in order to get your DEA number (so that you can write prescriptions) they will find out about your expunged charge since it's drug related. If you're an outstanding applicant (3.7+ GPA and 33+ MCAT), you will likely be admitted somewhere - if the drug charge doesn't preclude you from getting a license. However, depending on the exact circumstances of your charge, you may or may not be allowed to practice in certain states since a drug charge may make it harder to obtain a license.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think that med school/med licensing types are going to be very careful about anyone with even a whiff of "drug dealing" in their past. On the other hand, if you've never been convicted, you've never been convicted.

I think there's a lot of terminology in OP's initial post that makes it hard to give sound advice. First a drug felony (as opposed to misdemeanor) usually means we are talking about a lot of drugs (eg an "intent to deal" amount). Second, OP says it was dealt with via a program and then a nolle prosequi, meaning the prosecutor decided it was no longer in the public interest to prosecute the case. So he has an arrest and a nolle on the records. Then he says it was expunged. Not clear what was expunged, (the arrest record, presumably) but suffice it to say that in the information age, nothing is ever truly expunged, just less likely to come up on a simple criminal record check an employer might request. Does the DEA have better criminal searches that could uncover this supposedly expunged record? I don't know but would think the smart money is on yes.

So IMHO, the issue isn't whether the OP can get into med school with no convictions and an expunged record -- I suspect he can without it ever coming up. But can the OP get licensed to prescribe controlled substances 5 years later? That's a hard one. And I'd want to be really sure how that turns out before I'd sink $150k into a medical education.

 

[emevol]

I think there's a lot of terminology in OP's initial post that makes it hard to give sound advice. First a drug felony (as opposed to misdemeanor) usually means we are talking about a lot of drugs (eg an "intent to deal" amount). Second, OP says it was dealt with via a program and then a nolle prosequi, meaning the prosecutor decided it was no longer in the public interest to prosecute the case. So he has an arrest and a nolle on the records. Then he says it was expunged. Not clear what was expunged, (the arrest record, presumably) but suffice it to say that in the information age, nothing is ever truly expunged, just less likely to come up on a simple criminal record check an employer might request. Does the DEA have better criminal searches that could uncover this supposedly expunged record? I don't know but would think the smart money is on yes.

So IMHO, the issue isn't whether the OP can get into med school with no convictions and an expunged record -- I suspect he can without it ever coming up. But can the OP get licensed to prescribe controlled substances 5 years later? That's a hard one. And I'd want to be really sure how that turns out before I'd sink $150k into a medical education.

No intent to sell, I was arrested for what is pretty much considered a non-usable amount. The entire arrest record was expunged and I have court stamped papers to verify it. Still, an awful and regrettable situation that I have learned from. I pulled up an application for Florida licensing and they only ask about Convictions, Plea Bargains, and No Contest. ???? 🙁

 

[emevol]

Details can be painful, you know? I could call it the wrong time, wrong place, wrong friends story, but at the end of the day, it was my wrong decision.....but it gave me the courage to start over and fight for my goals. I just don't know if this goal is truly attainable or just forever dangling in front of me. Still, I will try my best and always be honest about it. I am going to call the Florida Board, the FBI, and the DEA tomorrow.

Should I call and ask schools too?

 

[Handy388]

My name is OGLoc, and I was framed for murder by officer Tepenny. I wanted to apply to UCSF but they turned me down for my previous felony. I had to go to prison to establish a rap career.

 

[emevol]

I say don't worry about it. Pretend it never happened. You'll severely hurt (probably eliminate) your chances of acceptance if you attempt some convoluted explanation in a tiny paragraph of a secondary app. My lawyer says it's fine to deny the charge ever happened, and that it won't appear on typical background checks. He said only the very most scrutinous background checking agencies will have the resources to possibly find stuff like traces of expunged cases.

I couldn't agree more. Someone above suggested I attach a statement, but this is just something that I would much rather disclose and explain in person. I'm just not sure if I should bring it up or if they should.

 

[emevol]

My name is OGLoc, and I was framed for murder by officer Tepenny. I wanted to apply to UCSF but they turned me down for my previous felony. I had to go to prison to establish a rap career.

Forgive me for thinking I could actually expect sound and helpful comments.

 

[Depakote]

Please keep the comments helpful and on-topic.

Thanks.

 

[Dienekes]

Part of this chart should answer your question:

 

[emevol]

thanks buddy. wishing you well on your endeavours as well.

 

[emevol]

if anyone has anything helpful to add, please help.
if the school doesnt ask me, should i explain anyway?

 

[JaggerPlate]

some of them ask if you have ever been convicted OR charged OR plead "no contest" to a felony or criminal misdemeanor.......

I didn't know they could ask about charges. I thought everything was innocent until proven guilty, ergo using a charge against you is unlawful?? Weird.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Anybody have any experience with secondaries asking about charges/how many secondaries asked about charges (if any) compared to how many you filled out. I'm really curious about this now ...

 

[Law2Doc]

Anybody have any experience with secondaries asking about charges/how many secondaries asked about charges (if any) compared to how many you filled out. I'm really curious about this now ...

I've not seen any secondaries that asked about charges. But I think you are mixing concepts when you suggest that someone is innocent until proven guilty. That is true in a court of law and a concept of US jurisprudence. But I'm not sure it has much to do with admissions where you certainly can be rejected for things that bring your character into question.

 

[emevol]

Anybody have any experience with secondaries asking about charges/how many secondaries asked about charges (if any) compared to how many you filled out. I'm really curious about this now ...

bump...

answers please. anyone?

 

[DieselD]

Louisville asks if u've ever been arrested.

 

[AnxiousMDPhD]

I have a problem similar to the OP.

About 3 years ago, I was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. I am an avid martial arts student and I wasn't aware that my training knives were in my bag at the time. The catch is that I was at an international airport and was caught at a security checkpoint, so the charges ended up being a bit more serious than they would have been under other circumstances (although still a misdemeanor).

I found a good lawyer, the charges were dismissed, and my arrest record was expunged (no community service or other conditions to be met). I never mentioned the charges on my applications because I was never convicted, but now that I have been accepted to an MD/PhD program and they are about to run a background check, I am getting very nervous that something about this will come up. How worried should I be?

 

[flip26]

I am a long-term SDNer posting from an alternate account, and I have a problem similar to the OP.

About 3 years ago, I was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. I am an avid martial arts student and I wasn't aware that my training knives were in my bag at the time. The catch is that I was at an international airport and was caught at a security checkpoint, so the charges ended up being a bit more serious than they would have been under other circumstances (although still a misdemeanor).

I found a good lawyer, the charges were dismissed, and my arrest record was expunged (no community service or other conditions to be met). I never mentioned the charges on my applications because I was never convicted, but now that I have been accepted to an MD/PhD program and they are about to run a background check, I am getting very nervous that something about this will come up. How worried should I be?

You know that is against SDN rules, right?

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

You know that is against SDN rules, right?

Cut him some slack. This is a sensitive topic about which he would not be willing to post under his regular username.

 

[emevol]

i would only assume that in matters such as this, privacy is important to the integrity of the poster. i hope these rules you speak of aren't as black and white...

 

[DieselD]

Louisville asks if u've ever been arrested.

Clarification. They ask on their secondary.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Clarification. They ask on their secondary.

This makes more sense than asking about charges (though it still seems like using convictions is more 'legal'). Is this the only school you applied to that asked a question of this manner on a secondary??

 

[Depakote]

You know that is against SDN rules, right?

This is fine for maintaining confidentiality in serious discussions. It is only a concern when an alternate account is used to troll or to sock-puppet.

 

[Depakote]

I have a problem similar to the OP.

About 3 years ago, I was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. I am an avid martial arts student and I wasn't aware that my training knives were in my bag at the time. The catch is that I was at an international airport and was caught at a security checkpoint, so the charges ended up being a bit more serious than they would have been under other circumstances (although still a misdemeanor).

I found a good lawyer, the charges were dismissed, and my arrest record was expunged (no community service or other conditions to be met). I never mentioned the charges on my applications because I was never convicted, but now that I have been accepted to an MD/PhD program and they are about to run a background check, I am getting very nervous that something about this will come up. How worried should I be?

If you answered every question truthfully throughout the application process, I don't believe the school will have a problem. They asked about the issues that they were concerned with.

Additionally, you state that the charges were dismissed and expunged. If that is the case, then the school shouldn't worry about it even if they know about it. I don't see it coming up, but if somehow (I don't know how, but if they do) the school finds out, you can tell them what you told us and I don't see them suddenly rejecting you. It's reasonable circumstances, you weren't convicted, your record is now clean.

I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[flip26]

This is fine for maintaining confidentiality in serious discussions. It is only a concern when an alternate account is used to troll or to sock-puppet.

Then the SDN rules should be rewritten to reflect this change in TOS/policy against one person having multiple accounts...

 

[bozz]

All I can say is:

Congratulations emevol! awesome job

 

[DieselD]

This makes more sense than asking about charges (though it still seems like using convictions is more 'legal'). Is this the only school you applied to that asked a question of this manner on a secondary??

Yes it was the only one in the 30 primaries that I sent out that asks about arrests. I'm guessing it would have to do with the states licensing...

 

[Dr. McDude]

LSU NO asks if you have ever been charged, plead guilty, convicted, ... ... of a criminal offense. Then says you must answer yes even if the charges were dismissed, expunged, etc. I also have a previous misdemeanor charge that I was never convicted of and was expunged. I was told by a lawyer that I should absolutely list it on the app. They also said expungements are susceptible to human error in implementing and may still show up on background checks. I'm a little worried. I would not bring it up if they didn't ask specifically for it, but I am going to honestly explain and hope for the best.

 

[hono]

AMCAS 2009 application questions:

Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Misdemeanor crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, 2) any convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court, or 3) any misdemeanor convictions for which any probation has been completed and the case dismissed by the court (in states where applicable)?
You need NOT disclose any instance where you:
• were arrested, but not charged;
• were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
• were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
• were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
• received an executive pardon.



Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Felony crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, or 2) convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court (in states where applicable)?
You need NOT disclose any instance where you:
• were arrested but not charged;
• were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
• were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
• were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
• received an executive pardon.

 

[Food]

Then the SDN rules should be rewritten to reflect this change in TOS/policy against one person having multiple accounts...

Wow. What the hell is the matter with you? Here's a suggestion: If you want to be made a mod (which I assume can be the only reason you have been going through the SDN TOS), arguing with Depakote won't help.