faculty vouching for top choice

[obiwan]

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i heard this from a friend who is applying into surgery which he said is standard at his institution but i had not heard of before ....

just wondering if any of you will be using this option in having a faculty member like program director or chair to call your top IM program choice as a way to sort of solidify and add legitimacy to your ranking...

 

[futureres]

i heard this from a friend who is applying into surgery which he said is standard at his institution but i had not heard of before ....

just wondering if any of you will be using this option in having a faculty member like program director or chair to call your top IM program choice as a way to sort of solidify and add legitimacy to your ranking...

This is very common, but it's more helpful if the faculty member/PD actually has a relationship with the top choice. I honestly don't think it changes the ranking-your letters of recommendation essentially "vouch" for you and got you the interviews, and if a program doesn't want you, a phone call won't change that. But if you are on the border between the ranked-to-match and the group just below that, a phone call won't hurt.

 

[dsprague12]

i heard this from a friend who is applying into surgery which he said is standard at his institution but i had not heard of before ....

just wondering if any of you will be using this option in having a faculty member like program director or chair to call your top IM program choice as a way to sort of solidify and add legitimacy to your ranking...

The main benefit would probably be from the implicit fact that the faculty calling on your behalf don't have time to call every program on your list and plug you as a great candidate. Thus, the program they call will more or less know that they are likely your #1 choice. Whether this has any shot of affecting your ranking or not is debatable, but it would seem to reinforce that you are serious about going there having asked faculty to spend time calling there on your behalf.

 

[sluggo]

Why is it that the same people who decry affirmative action for traditionally underprivileged minorities have no shame in using this sort of nepotism?

 

[howelljolly]

Why is it that the same people who decry affirmative action for traditionally underprivileged minorities have no shame in using this sort of nepotism?

because doctors are the most rotten, backstabbing, and hypocritical bunch around. We took the Hypocritical Oath, didnt we?

 

[jdh71]

Why is it that the same people who decry affirmative action for traditionally underprivileged minorities have no shame in using this sort of nepotism?

This isn't nepotism ******, please pay attention.

This is a PD or a Chairman vouching for you with another program. These guys all know each other, if by reputation only. I'll not waste or possibly ruin my reputation with my PD and Chairman colleagues over some clown I don't believe is good. And conversely why wouldn't you recommend someone you think is good?

Seriously you need to engage your brain before you engage your mouth. What is the old saying? It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open and be known a fool, maybe?

 

[futureres]

Why is it that the same people who decry affirmative action for traditionally underprivileged minorities have no shame in using this sort of nepotism?

LOL @ your comment. What's interesting is that a friend of mine with stats/research/publications well above the typical "top tier" applicant (was at the top of the class at a top 10 med school) went on interviews to the elite programs last year, and some fellow applicants suggested that he was only there because he was a minority. Go figure.

Back to the topic, most faculty who are now making these decisions scurried up the academic ladder themselves through connections/nepotism. And it all started with med school-->residency-->fellowship. 🙄 Survival of the fittest I suppose...

 

[futureres]

This is a PD or a Chairman vouching for you with another program. These guys all know each other, if by reputation only. I'll not waste or possibly ruin my reputation with my PD and Chairman colleagues over some clown I don't believe is good. And conversely why wouldn't you recommend someone you think is good?

I agree, excluding the insults.

 

[sluggo]

Think about it: 2 applicants equal on paper and both interviewed well, but applicant A has his PD call the program's PD! Shady!
What happened to the meritocracy?

 

[ResidentMD]

Think about it: 2 applicants equal on paper and both interviewed well, but applicant A has his PD call the program's PD! Shady!
What happened to the meritocracy?

It is meritocracy. Applicant A had developed enough social skills and had developed enough trust in his/her PD to make the call. As jdh71 said, no one will make a call for a candidate unless they think they are really good. And if they are forced, the tone of the call/email will clearly do more harm than good.

 

[yankeescard]

Think about it: 2 applicants equal on paper and both interviewed well, but applicant A has his PD call the program's PD! Shady!
What happened to the meritocracy?

Applicant B is a ***** for not doing the same.

 

[Phineus]

Applicant B is a ***** for not doing the same.

So who has the upper hand?

Applicant A: PD and Chairman call
Applicant B: PD calls
Applicant C: Chairman, PD, attending, and mother call

 

[houstoncfh]

So who has the upper hand?

Applicant A: PD and Chairman call
Applicant B: PD calls
Applicant C: Chairman, PD, attending, and mother call

Whose mother? I think the PD's mother would DEFINITELY give you the upper hand.

 

[ResidentMD]

Whose mother? I think the PD's mother would DEFINITELY give you the upper hand.

Awesome...loved it

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I kid you not -- I have had applicant's parents call me. Not a good idea.

 

[Phineus]

I kid you not -- I have had applicant's parents call me. Not a good idea.

aPD: how much of an impact does it make if an applicant's Chair/PD makes a call on his/her behalf?

 

[Gastrapathy]

I kid you not -- I have had applicant's parents call me. Not a good idea.

I gotta know. Physician parent?

 

[docbill]

I kid you not -- I have had applicant's parents call me. Not a good idea.

Did s/he get a residency in u r program?

 

[ResidentMD]

Did s/he get a residency in u r program?

Dont get ideas .......😉

 

[Katia482]

Think about it: 2 applicants equal on paper and both interviewed well, but applicant A has his PD call the program's PD! Shady!
What happened to the meritocracy?

I think that you guys are kind of missing the point as to what this call is generally used for. The PD/Dept chair is not providing additional recommendation for the applicant when making the phone call, they are simply adding additional credibility to the applicant's claim that they are raking the program #1.

It is one thing for the applicant to email the PD at their top choice and say "I love your program, I will be ranking your first". But the claim becomes a little more credible if someone reputable from the applicant's home institution is willing to put their reputation on the line by promising the PD that the applicant will be ranking them #1. Also, while an unscrupulous applicant could send out multiple "you are my #1" emails, it seems highly unlikely that a department chair would be so unethical as to make multiple "this applicant is ranking you #1" phone calls.

These types of calls are HIGHLY encouraged by my school (actually, perhaps too much so). The chair of our department of medicine will make the call for anyone, regardless of how well he knows you, so long as you assure him that you are 100% confident in your #1 choice, and will absolutely follow through with it in your ROL. They seem to think that telling programs they are your first choice really can very likely help you out to match there. I'm not sure if I totally agree with this, but people from my school do generally match very well in medicine.