Faking race and getting in article

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The willingness to lie at an adult age (~22) speaks a lot to his character. This also doesn't even begin to show how his action costed 1 other individual a seat in medical school.

If anyone does this, they would have to maintain their lies for a very very long time and I can't see myself pretending to be something as fundamental as another race for that long.
 
google12 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...er-explains-why-he-pretended-to-be-black/amp/

I'm sure this article has been read/seen before, but what are all your thoughts on it? I thought it was sort of strange but do you guys think this sort of stuff really works and how would you catch someone like this?
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Thanks. That was crazy. I almost missed that it's mindy k's brother. And the exchange between the 2 of them. . I have to give the guy credit for finding his true calling eventually.
1961 book Black Like Me addresses similar issues.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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You realize he got in but dropped out. I wonder if he had finished medical school and this story had come out from a relatively known person (as the brother of Mindy) he would have had his acceptance and degree rescinded even after completing school ( accepted under false pretenses) and that would have opened up a huge legal issue for him. The DOE could has sued him civilly for immediate loan repayment and, if some prosecutor wanted to get some publicity, charge him criminally with fraud.
 
Apparently med school was not right for him - he faked to get in but dropped out. The application process is, beyond anything, meant for you to discover if you can handle the long journey down the road. If you have to fake to get in then of course not.
 
According to AAMC Facts data, roughly 10% (actually just under) of applicants to US Medical Schools since 2013 identified themselves and African American. According to the same data, roughly 10% of matriculants were African American. If you also look at all other racial groups AAMC uses, there is no statistically relevant finding of any demographic being accepted significantly more or less than the percentage that applied.

What upset me most about this article was the two paragraphs he forced in to try and show his sympathy with the African American community. As if he walked a mile in their shoes. No. Part of the reason African American matriculant data is lower than other groups is that there is still a problem in this country with the primary and secondary education system in this country. My father is university professor and advisor for a program that works with retention of first-generation students (many African American) through their collegiate experience. This program exists because there is a high drop out rate. For many, they have not been prepared for the university experience either academically or through anecdotal family knowledge. They don't know how to prep undergrad let alone medical school applications.

By any measurable standard, this kid had all the chances in the world. He came from an upper middle class family (parents were an MD and architect). Went to a great school, but squandered his chances and was a poor applicant. Say what you want about his half-a$$ed story about his friend, but what he should have done is what many of us have done. Realize you screwed up, get into a post-bacc or MBS program, make yourself a stronger applicant and apply broadly.
 
Turkishking said:
I look like I'm Hispanic. Me being Turkish isn't obvious, except my name.
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If I introduced you to a group of Mexican American med students, how long would it take them to figure out that you do not identify?
 
gyngyn said:
If I introduced you to a group of Mexican American med students, how long would it take them to figure out that you do not identify?
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What do you guys do with the people you've caught lying about race?
 
gyngyn said:
I actually reported one to AMCAS (he ultimately admitted he was lying to gain an advantage).
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There goes his chances of being a doctor. Would the medical schools in the Caribbean accept this individual? And if he did get some where in the Caribbean, are his residency chances shot in the U.S?
 
Turkishking said:
There goes his chances of being a doctor. Would the medical schools in the Caribbean accept this individual? And if he did get some where in the Caribbean, are his residency chances shot in the U.S?
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I have seen every sort of nefarious behavior accepted to the finest Caribbean schools.
 
It's articles and people like this that cause pre-meds to have a negative view on URM students. I am a minority myself. However, I don't believe people should be given an advantage into med school because they are a certain race. If anything it should be socioeconomic factors more than race.
 
Gollum1985 said:
It's articles and people like this that cause pre-meds to have a negative view on URM students. I am a minority myself. However, I don't believe people should be given an advantage into med school because they are a certain race. If anything it should be socioeconomic factors more than race.
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The reason for the socioeconomic "boost" is the distance traveled by that individual.
The reason for the UiM boost is the added value to the communities that are paying a disproportionate share of their income for so little in return. Despite admittedly high tuition, the public largely pays for your medical education (even at private schools).
In other words, the UiM boost is not for the individual student but the communities they will serve.
 
gyngyn said:
The reason for the socioeconomic "boost" is the distance traveled by that individual.
The reason for the UiM boost is the added value to the communities that are paying a disproportionate share of their income for so little in return. In other words, the UiM boost is not for the individual student but the communities they will serve.
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I think you need to clarify this statement a little better to avoid triggering a debate on taxes lol.
 
I feel that people who get upset over URMs are just deflecting blame from their own application/life. I have plenty of family that have gone through medical school with "URMs" and these individuals are the ones that often go back and serve in these "less desirable" communities. So unless you are willing to sign a binding contract on admission to medical school that you'll go and serve these populations STFU (had to rant because I've been hearing this sorry excuse from people in real life as the cycle starts up again)
 
Wow, lies his way into med school with a 62 LizzyM and drops out, and now works as a professional school admissions consultant?

Stranger than fiction

Anyways as to the whole URM debate - like gyngyn already said, it's not about fairness to applicants, but about providing for certain communities. So if an Asian or white student from an underserved background and/or with ECs focused on the underserved also gets some slack in the GPA/MCAT department, I don't see anything wrong with the system.
 
efle said:
Wow, lies his way into med school with a 62 LizzyM and drops out, and now works as a professional school admissions consultant?

Stranger than fiction

Anyways as to the whole URM debate - like gyngyn already said, it's not about fairness to applicants, but about providing for certain communities. So if an Asian or white student from an underserved background and/or with ECs focused on the underserved also gets some slack in the GPA/MCAT department, I don't see anything wrong with the system.
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His consultation probably consists of, "What minority can you pretend to be?"
 
Mad Jack said:
I remember when I guy tried to pull this and they did the interview in Spanish. It did not go well for him.
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A friend of mine is hispanic but not from a URM country per se; he claimed "fluent language skills." They interviewed him in Spanish; he's speaking level is no higher than what a high school non-native speaker can do...his interview did not end well either haha.
 
Turkishking said:
There goes his chances of being a doctor. Would the medical schools in the Caribbean accept this individual? And if he did get some where in the Caribbean, are his residency chances shot in the U.S?
Click to expand...

The criteria for acceptance in the Caribbean are a detectable pulse and sufficient credit rating; many qualified candidates do wind in the off-shore for a number of reasons and become doctors. Its the schools nearly predatory marketing that attracts that blatantly unqualified students and steal their money (or rather the governments) and leaves them with debt. As for residency, AAMC tracks IDs for MCAT/AMCAS and/or creates ID for ECFMG but that is mostly for data purposes. Conceivably, residency programs could get this info but I have never heard of a that happening.
 
gyngyn said:
It's usually pretty obvious.
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Just out of curiosity, what type of indicators are present in an application when someone is faking URM status? And if someone does somehow manage to get an interview and claims to be URM/fluent in a language, do ADCOMS usually interview that person in the/a language the applicant claims to be fluent in (it seems as though from this thread that some schools do this) and ask culturally relevant questions that relate to their URM? I remember during my interview that my interviewer did ask me about my experiences as a non-white American so I was wondering if that was common in certain interviews.
 
poketography said:
Just out of curiosity, what type of indicators are present in an application when someone is faking URM status? And if someone does somehow manage to get an interview and claims to be URM/fluent in a language, do ADCOMS usually interview that person in the/a language the applicant claims to be fluent in (it seems as though from this thread that some schools do this) and ask culturally relevant questions that relate to their URM? I remember during my interview that my interviewer did ask me about my experiences as a non-white American so I was wondering if that was common in certain interviews.
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Lack of a validated commitment to service is a big one.
 
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gyngyn said:
Lack of a validated commitment to service is a big one.
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Indeed. You'd be surprised how many Caucasian applicants people "discover" Native American ancestry when applying to med school. So many unethical people do this that nowadays, one had better have a tribal identity card, and/or actual service to Native American communities.

When it comes to people who claim to have foreign language skills, I have seen my foreign-born Adcom colleagues speak French or Spanish to interviewees. I have done this as well. So far we haven't caught any liars.
 
Goro said:
Indeed. You'd be surprised how many Caucasian applicants people "discover" Native American ancestry when applying to med school. So many unethical people do this that nowadays, one had better have a tribal identity card, and/or actual service to Native American communities.

When it comes to people who claim to have foreign language skills, I have seen my foreign-born Adcom colleagues speak French or Spanish to interviewees. I have done this as well. So far we haven't caught any liars.
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Man, to use/conveniently discover Native American ancestry as a way to get into medical school without really appreciating the culture and experience that Native Americans go through in America, it just feels and looks so wrong to me. And the fact that "so many unethical people" actually are willing to do that just to get ahead without really wanting to give back to that community, it kinda makes me sick to my stomach...

And all of these checks that ADCOMs do with the languages is really impressive; thank you for giving me a little peek of the entire process. I know that it's tough for applicants but the medical school application process also sounds just as brutal for ADCOMs too. I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant but I honestly had no idea how much fine-tooth combing went into each individual applicant's file and interview; it's amazing really.
 
This is a bit of a tangent, but does anyone else get nervous reading posts like this? I have never and will never do anything so awful or stupid, but even reading it makes me feel as if I was the one who did it. I suppose this is the negative side of empathy.
 
Seldon said:
This is a bit of a tangent, but does anyone else get nervous reading posts like this? I have never and will never do anything so awful or stupid, but even reading it makes me feel as if I was the one who did it. I suppose this is the negative side of empathy.
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I didn't get it when I read this article, but I can tell you I felt super guilty and anxious through Crime and Punishment.
 
So in terms of interviews in Spanish, is it likely anyone will try to talk to me in Spanish if I only listed my understanding as basic? I mean I do have a basic understanding, but I am by no means proficient. So I'm sure with the nerves of the interview my Spanish ineptitudes would be obvious. I'd like to prepare if it's likely to happen though...
 
ScreenName23 said:
So in terms of interviews in Spanish, is it likely anyone will try to talk to me in Spanish if I only listed my understanding as basic? I mean I do have a basic understanding, but I am by no means proficient. So I'm sure with the nerves of the interview my Spanish ineptitudes would be obvious. I'd like to prepare if it's likely to happen though...
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You're safe. You didn't lie.
 
gyngyn said:
Lack of a validated commitment to service is a big one.
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Interviewer: You identify as a black male but your activities include involvement with the Ku Klux Klan?
 
The whole URM/UiM is a load of crap.

I'm asian and my parents are poor low education immigrants and just because of my race, it's immensely harder to be competitive. My black and hispanic friends got in with subpar GPAs and MCATs (3.5 27s or 504-505s). If I was black or hispanic, got a 3.5 and a 30, I'd be into most MDs...

Hell, I'd even be white and get some white privilege like the people at my high school that cheated their way through AP classes and SATs...

Someone mentioned the serving of underserved and that hispanics/blacks do it more... That argument doesn't make any sense considering most people will generally practice near their home and anyone with a disadvantaged socioeconomic status would serve their respective underserved community
 
@CommyO I'm telling you this because you are already on probation: disparaging diversity policies is not allowed in the professional forums.
 
CommyO said:
The whole URM/UiM is a load of crap.

I'm asian and my parents are poor low education immigrants and just because of my race, it's immensely harder to be competitive. My black and hispanic friends got in with subpar GPAs and MCATs (3.5 27s or 504-505s). If I was black or hispanic, got a 3.5 and a 30, I'd be into most MDs...

Hell, I'd even be white and get some white privilege like the people at my high school that cheated their way through AP classes and SATs...

Someone mentioned the serving of underserved and that hispanics/blacks do it more... That argument doesn't make any sense considering most people will generally practice near their home and anyone with a disadvantaged socioeconomic status would serve their respective underserved community
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I would make a couple points except that this is the wrong place to make them (and also I stay out of the correct place to make them because it's usually utter garbage). Multiple people have said these discussions should be limited to the sociopolitical forums because otherwise every thread devolves into this kind of arguing in which all parties make points that have been made a thousand times before. Stop trying to continue it.

Edit: Nvm I was thinking of a different thread that devolved into useless bickering about URM status in admissions. Still, let's not inject it here.
 
ZedsDed said:
@CommyO I'm telling you this because you are already on probation: disparaging diversity policies is not allowed in the professional forums.
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Damn, I didn't know that.. But other people in this thread have said the same thing and I quote...
"I feel that people who get upset over URMs are just deflecting blame from their own application/life. I have plenty of family that have gone through medical school with "URMs" and these individuals are the ones that often go back and serve in these "less desirable" communities. So unless you are willing to sign a binding contract on admission to medical school that you'll go and serve these populations STFU (had to rant because I've been hearing this sorry excuse from people in real life as the cycle starts up again)"

How is my statement any more off topic? When I posted, these were the comments I was addressing
 
gyngyn said:
This is a thread about lying to gain an unfair advantage in admissions.
Debates about the value of holistic admission policies may more reasonably be placed in the socio-political forum:
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There were previous posts regarding the same thing; URM status and NOT the thread title/topic. I fail to understand how much more I went off topic than them
 
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