FAP Recipients...What happens to them?

[eelsauce]

Obviously, there is not one profile that fits FAP (racial, ethnicity, regional, etc.) and with the COVID-19 pandemic, more people qualify. However, what is their acceptance rate? Their average MCAT? Where do they go?

As a FAP recipient, I am curious to see what happened to the people before me. Did AAMC's helpful starter pack (MCAT resources, discounted MCAT, 20 free application submissions, official qualification to have secondaries waived/discounted) actually help them?

@LizzyM @gonnif @Goro @Faha

You have your respective threads and maintain them well. I have not scoured this website and tally the FAP recipients, but do you have any insight you can share for the many more like me and those following me?

Disclaimer: My fellow SDNers, I am not searching for any URMs do/do not deserve admissions argument. I am just searching for historical trends and numbers; something AAMC has not given since July 2014 and probably will not provide within the next few years given the pandemic's arguably major impact on this cycle and the next few.

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[Kardio]

Obviously, there is not one profile that fits FAP (racial, ethnicity, regional, etc.) and with the COVID-19 pandemic, more people qualify. However, what is their acceptance rate? Their average MCAT? Where do they go?

I don’t think data on the relationship between FAP recipients and acceptance rates or MCAT scores is published.

FAP and the Education/Occupation indicators are used by schools as objective data points on an applicant’s socioeconomic background. They are used as part of holistic review.

As a FAP recipient, I am curious to see what happened to the people before me. Did AAMC's helpful starter pack (MCAT resources, discounted MCAT, 20 free application submissions, official qualification to have secondaries waived/discounted) actually help them?

It is an in-kind contribution to your application. Depending on the number of schools you apply to, it can be worth thousands of dollars.

 

[LizzyM]

In all my years, I've never heard anyone comment one way or the other about FAP with regard to interviews or admission offers. We completely ignore it. It is not the same as childhood disadvantage although there is some overlap. The point is to give a boost to low income applicants so as to even the playing field.

 

[eelsauce]

I only ask as the AAMC put out this statistic "1,662 FAP awardees enrolled" within their infographic summarizing the most recent cycle. Out of 20,321 total. Some nagging thought I had was the FAP students are given an even playing field but a) they are not able to do well enough and get accepted b) schools are not fond of them due to financial aid complexities c) low-income students generally do not aim for medical school or a variety of these.

I do not think we can know the true answer to this question but if there has not been any conversation about FAP on a student's application -> b) can be ruled out. We would just have the old-age a) and c). With a pandemic, there will be more inspiration for those to pursue a career within the healthcare field and given that the pandemic has heavily affected the working class (as well as all classes but one can argue this one was relatively the most severe); maybe c) will be a non-issue.

I hope I am not reasoning myself into a hole. I just wanted to know what happens to students like myself: First-Gen/Low-Income; Pell-Grant Eligible

The AAMC has some data that students like myself cannot access but "Members" can. Do you have more insight than my speculation? @LizzyM

 

[KnightDoc]

I only ask as the AAMC put out this statistic "1,662 FAP awardees enrolled" within their infographic summarizing the most recent cycle. Out of 20,321 total. Some nagging thought I had was the FAP students are given an even playing field but a) they are not able to do well enough and get accepted b) schools are not fond of them due to financial aid complexities c) low-income students generally do not aim for medical school or a variety of these.

I do not think we can know the true answer to this question but if there has not been any conversation about FAP on a student's application -> b) can be ruled out. We would just have the old-age a) and c). With a pandemic, there will be more inspiration for those to pursue a career within the healthcare field and given that the pandemic has heavily affected the working class (as well as all classes but one can argue this one was relatively the most severe); maybe c) will be a non-issue.

I hope I am not reasoning myself into a hole. I just wanted to know what happens to students like myself: First-Gen/Low-Income; Pell-Grant Eligible

The AAMC has some data that students like myself cannot access but "Members" can. Do you have more insight than my speculation? @LizzyM

Maybe you are just asking the wrong question. As @LizzyM stated, FAP does not seem to be the proxy for URM, low SES, etc. that you might be thinking it is based on the AAMC infographic you cited. For what it's worth, you can probably rule out (c) from your answers above. Regardless of whether or not low income students generally aim for medical school, it's a pretty safe assumption that wouldn't apply to low income students who applied for and received FAP.

As is apparent from the fact that it was greatly expanded this year due to COVID, FAP is nothing more or less than a program designed to ensure that finances do not prevent anyone from preparing for or taking the MCAT, and then applying to 20 med schools. I don't think it is designed to provide any kind of boost or support beyond that, so there is no reason to track the metrics you are asking about.

The other factors that go into a holistic review might be what you are looking for, but FAP would be a poor proxy for them, because an upper middle class highly educated White family that recently suffered a loss of income would be eligible for FAP, but wouldn't otherwise receive (or be eligible for) any sort of admission preference that would be relevant to your question.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't have access to AAMC member data.
I do know that an eligible applicant may apply for and receive FAP for more than one cycle so someone may apply and use it to get a break on the cost of the MCAT one year and apply the next year, or not apply at all after getting a low score. So, the number of FAP recipients is not a reasonable denominator when looking at the number of matriculants who qualified for FAP.

 

[eelsauce]

Okay, thank you all for your insight. Hope everyone and their loved ones are staying safe at this time!

 

[Goro]

Obviously, there is not one profile that fits FAP (racial, ethnicity, regional, etc.) and with the COVID-19 pandemic, more people qualify. However, what is their acceptance rate? Their average MCAT? Where do they go?

As a FAP recipient, I am curious to see what happened to the people before me. Did AAMC's helpful starter pack (MCAT resources, discounted MCAT, 20 free application submissions, official qualification to have secondaries waived/discounted) actually help them?

@LizzyM @gonnif @Goro @Faha

You have your respective threads and maintain them well. I have not scoured this website and tally the FAP recipients, but do you have any insight you can share for the many more like me and those following me?

Disclaimer: My fellow SDNers, I am not searching for any URMs do/do not deserve admissions argument. I am just searching for historical trends and numbers; something AAMC has not given since July 2014 and probably will not provide within the next few years given the pandemic's arguably major impact on this cycle and the next few.

Haven't a clue. AACOMAS apps and my own school's secondaries aren't marked for FAP.

 

[eelsauce]

Thank you for sharing @Goro . I appreciated your input 🙂

 

[Med Ed]

I don’t think data on the relationship between FAP recipients and acceptance rates or MCAT scores is published.

Figure 7 of Using MCAT Data in 2021 Medical Student Selection reports the average MCAT of FAP recipients as 497.5 vs 501.3 for non-FAP recipients.

 

[Med Ed]

I only ask as the AAMC put out this statistic "1,662 FAP awardees enrolled" within their infographic summarizing the most recent cycle. Out of 20,321 total.

Figure 4 of Using MCAT Data in 2021 Medical Student Selection reports that 8% of takers received FAP, which would be proportional to ~1,600 FAP recipients enrolled out of ~20,000 total.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I think it would be hard to argue that FAP does not help, but I think it’s important to recognize the limits of its scope. The goal of FAP is to assist with the costs associated with preparing for the MCAT and applying to medical school, something that more affluent students may find easier to afford. So using your language, it does level the playing field in that respect. However, it does not address what occurs during college. There are some truly frightening statistics about homelessness, food insecurity, and working hours among low income students, which would make performing at a high academic level much more challenging. Add onto this the challenge with taking on unpaid ECs to build ones application, it makes it even more challenging to put together an app that would be well rounded and competitive. We see data year after year that students from higher income areas perform better on standardized tests (med ed’s post with MCAT data supports this). All of this is a way of saying FAP helps with some things but it does not address many of the serious challenges lower income students may encounter.

As far as not being admitted for financial reasons, I don’t believe this is the case, since us citizens and permanent residents have access to federal loans (which is why some schools do not evaluate non-citizens/residents for admission).

 

[eelsauce]

Does anyone know how AdComs communicate to the AAMC about low-income students (feedback from low-income background students about their journey, what they should be moving toward in the renovation of AMCAS/MCAT, etc.)? Does the AAMC communicate with AdComs about these things (like the SAT's controversial Adversity score)?

I think it is a moot point for me as an applicant, but I do believe that this system as you @GreenDuck12 pointed out does not encapsulate the struggles that low-income students face in undergraduate, before undergraduate, etc. FAP is not supposed to be seen as a way to fix all of that but is a last-touch adjustment (i.e. I view it as someone purchasing you a suit/dress for your graduation/wedding/interview without ever having supporting you on your way towards this event; they do it to help you but may not acknowledge the struggles it took for you to reach this stage).

Maybe I am just jaded but I would like to think AdComs do communicate on some level with AAMC about the systemic bias against URiM (racial, economical, geographical).

Thank you @Med Ed for helping me see the data. I did not realize they updated for the 2021 Guide.

 

[Med Ed]

Does anyone know how AdComs communicate to the AAMC about low-income students (feedback from low-income background students about their journey, what they should be moving toward in the renovation of AMCAS/MCAT, etc.)? Does the AAMC communicate with AdComs about these things (like the SAT's controversial Adversity score)?

You should do some reading on the AAMC's affinity groups, most notably the Group on Student Affairs (GSA).

MCAT "renovations" are a huge undertaking. Only two have occurred in the last 30 years.

 

[LizzyM]

Adcoms don't communicate with AAMC. It would be higher on the food chain, at the level of Deans of Admissions and Deans of Medical Schools that would be communicating at AAMC annual meeting and in AAMC committees. And, as mentioned by @Med Ed in AAMC affinity groups.

There is also ongoing scholarship (research) on these topics (success rates of various applicant and student subsets) and the pubications serve as further evidence that ways to remove barriers are needed.

 

[couldbeawinchester]

I was a FAP recipient for my second cycle. I didn't bother applying for it my first cycle (I don't remember why), so I studied for the MCAT using Khan Academy and Princeton Review books. I applied to 5 schools (it was all I could afford) with a 3.8+c/3.7+s GPA and a 503 MCAT. I was rejected everywhere pre interview. The next cycle I used the AAMC MCAT resources that the FAP gave me and applied to 20 schools. I had a 3.82c/3.73s GPA and my MCAT went up to a 508. I was interviewed at 2 schools and accepted to 1. Without the FAP I wouldn't have been able to afford to apply to the schools that interviewed me. I wouldn't have gotten the 1 acceptance I needed to start my career. The FAP didn't give me any sort of advantage (I was still rejected from 19 schools) but it allowed me to apply to the same number of programs as those with more money

 

[KnightDoc]

Does anyone know how AdComs communicate to the AAMC about low-income students (feedback from low-income background students about their journey, what they should be moving toward in the renovation of AMCAS/MCAT, etc.)? Does the AAMC communicate with AdComs about these things (like the SAT's controversial Adversity score)?

I think it is a moot point for me as an applicant, but I do believe that this system as you @GreenDuck12 pointed out does not encapsulate the struggles that low-income students face in undergraduate, before undergraduate, etc. FAP is not supposed to be seen as a way to fix all of that but is a last-touch adjustment (i.e. I view it as someone purchasing you a suit/dress for your graduation/wedding/interview without ever having supporting you on your way towards this event; they do it to help you but may not acknowledge the struggles it took for you to reach this stage).

Maybe I am just jaded but I would like to think AdComs do communicate on some level with AAMC about the systemic bias against URiM (racial, economical, geographical).

Thank you @Med Ed for helping me see the data. I did not realize they updated for the 2021 Guide.

I am pretty sure the data is captured by AMCAS from what applicants provide in their primaries and in registering for the MCAT. AAMC then slices and dices that data. I don't think individual schools are communicating about their so-called systemic biases.

Also, it's important to understand that AAMC just administers the MCAT, provides the application platform, and compiles all sorts of data, but it intentionally has absolutely no role in the admission process, which is totally controlled separately by each school. Knowing this should temper your expectations regarding how involved AAMC would be in reforming anything. Any change will necessarily have to come from the schools themselves. AAMC is too afraid of litigation to accept any role in the process.

 

[eelsauce]

I know MCAT "renovations" are not frequent (every ~15 years) but I thought that AAMC was aware of the role they played within the process. They do lobby the government and provide their opinion/statement on any major development regarding the physician workforce or American healthcare system.

Maybe I am being idealistic. I utilized every resource FAP provided but I did not know why there was a drop off in students who utilize and those who matriculate. It may just very well be that some students do not know about it/do not choose to use it (so they are not included in the very beginning with a low percentage beyond the fact that there may not be much low-income applicants from the very beginning).

@LizzyM @Med Ed do you hear of any action off these publications/studies or affinity groups? I am probably grasping at straws here but I feel that any attempt to fix the system would have to include the MCAT as a whole. Why else would students be scoring lower if they are of a certain SES/race (more complicated than this due to those individual life experiences but why does the MCAT happen to spotlight them)?

 

[KnightDoc]

I know MCAT "renovations" are not frequent (every ~15 years) but I thought that AAMC was aware of the role they played within the process. They do lobby the government and provide their opinion/statement on any major development regarding the physician workforce or American healthcare system.

Maybe I am being idealistic. I utilized every resource FAP provided but I did not know why there was a drop off in students who utilize and those who matriculate. It may just very well be that some students do not know about it/do not choose to use it (so they are not included in the very beginning with a low percentage beyond the fact that there may not be much low-income applicants from the very beginning).

@LizzyM @Med Ed do you hear of any action off these publications/studies or affinity groups? I am probably grasping at straws here but I feel that any attempt to fix the system would have to include the MCAT as a whole. Why else would students be scoring lower if they are of a certain SES/race (more complicated than this due to those individual life experiences but why does the MCAT happen to spotlight them)?

The thing about AAMC is to be careful not to extrapolate based on what happened in the past. In the past few years they became extremely spooked over the prospect of litigation involving the admissions process, potentially anti competitive conduct engaged in by the schools, etc., and resolved to remove themselves from the process by, among other things, totally revamping the so-called "traffic rules" and eliminating tools the schools found extremely helpful in making admission decisions. You can rest assured that, going forward, AAMC will provide all of the data one could hope for to allow schools to parse admission outcomes by any metric you can imagine, but, in this environment, it is unlikely AAMC will become involved in any meaningful way in how schools actually decide who to admit, who to give a preference to, etc.

COVID and the MCAT is a great example. AAMC went to great lengths to get the test back up and running this spring so as to not deny candidates the ability to test, and to not deny schools their full complement of applicants, but it did not otherwise take any position on waiving the test and did not try to inject themselves into schools' decisions regarding what to do with the test, other than the urge them to make accommodations as they saw fit. Whatever else AAMC does with respect to lobbying or administering a test or an application platform, today's AAMC does not want to be involved in med school admission decisions to the extent that it could conceivably find itself a defendant in any lawsuit by any party unhappy with any admission outcome.

 

[eelsauce]

I did not realize that was a possible outcome (litigation against the testing agency/application service). @KnightDoc thank you for sharing your insight!

 

[KnightDoc]

I did not realize that was a possible outcome (litigation against the testing agency/application service). @KnightDoc thank you for sharing your insight!

It really isn't, but they are afraid of that nonetheless. It was a big thing last year when they changed the traffic rules in response to a lawsuit that didn't even involve them that the plaintiff lost! And by the way, testing agency/application service is what they want to be.

They are afraid if they share information with schools on where people hold acceptances they then become involved in the process and become more than just an application service. The same logic would apply if they told schools to favor one group of applicants over another, etc.

 

[eelsauce]

It is hard to recognize if their intentions are driven by business interests (they are quite intrusive over the process of applying and have established themselves) or out of care for the students involved.

AAMC SJT (Situational Judgement Test) is a new product they had composed which is supposed to compete with CASPer. This serves as a perfect example of their business interests and what one would expect a company to do. However, if you were to look back to applying to undergraduate institutions, the CommonApp (similar to AMCAS) did not also create the ACT/SAT or was responsible for the delivery of their scores.

What I am trying to get at: AAMC is too large of a player in the process with both applicants and medical schools to ignore its power or role in the process. I am aware of how beneficial it is for a company to ignore its responsibility (Facebook and fact-checking/truth-policing for example) and the arguments for or against it.

I just believe that an organization like AAMC should start to own up to its vacuum of social justice as a non-profit institution. Once you are large enough and are the only other component in the medical school application process besides directly interacting with the medical schools, you now must take responsibility for leveling the playing field beyond subsidizing the costs that you set yourself (FAP for example).

This frustration is probably misplaced but I think that the AAMC should be doing a better job in addressing the physician gap (racially, economically, and regionally). You can only be a capitalistic institution before you have dominated the market and simply refuse to share it while refusing the issues that other players may have forced you to address.

 

[GreenDuck12]

It is hard to recognize if their intentions are driven by business interests (they are quite intrusive over the process of applying and have established themselves) or out of care for the students involved.

AAMC SJT (Situational Judgement Test) is a new product they had composed which is supposed to compete with CASPer. This serves as a perfect example of their business interests and what one would expect a company to do. However, if you were to look back to applying to undergraduate institutions, the CommonApp (similar to AMCAS) did not also create the ACT/SAT or was responsible for the delivery of their scores.

What I am trying to get at: AAMC is too large of a player in the process with both applicants and medical schools to ignore its power or role in the process. I am aware of how beneficial it is for a company to ignore its responsibility (Facebook and fact-checking/truth-policing for example) and the arguments for or against it.

I just believe that an organization like AAMC should start to own up to its vacuum of social justice as a non-profit institution. Once you are large enough and are the only other component in the medical school application process besides directly interacting with the medical schools, you now must take responsibility for leveling the playing field beyond subsidizing the costs that you set yourself (FAP for example).

This frustration is probably misplaced but I think that the AAMC should be doing a better job in addressing the physician gap (racially, economically, and regionally). You can only be a capitalistic institution before you have dominated the market and simply refuse to share it while refusing the issues that other players may have forced you to address.

I think you’ve strayed from your original post. You started with wanting to better understand how FAP impacts applicants but have now transitioned to the AAMC’s capitalistic interests and being too large of an institution that should do more to fight the physician gap. The AAMC can develop tools and guidelines to meet the needs of their members (medical schools) but it is up to individual schools and committee members to implement practices that do this. What your talking about are much larger structures that make it more challenging for economically disadvantaged and URM students. Those are things that really cannot be addressed effectively at the time of application but must be done much earlier: undergrad, high school, grade school, early childhood, etc. Remember the AAMC isn’t designed to serve us as applicants to students or residents.

 

[LizzyM]

Why else would students be scoring lower if they are of a certain SES/race (more complicated than this due to those individual life experiences but why does the MCAT happen to spotlight them)?

Every high stakes exam in the US is influenced by a wide range of factors begining with the inequities of the US educational system which is tied to local funding of schools which is related to local property taxes which relates to home prices (in a upward or downward spiral), driving access to housing which is tied to bank policies and redlining. Poor housing stock is associated with childhood lead poisoning which causes damage to the neurological system and negatively influences educational attainment. Psychologically, people who are told that people like them don't do well on this test will not do as well as a similar cohort who are provided with positive messages or neutral messages about the test. There are much more but this gives you an idea why people of lower SES might not do as well on the MCAT even if they have assistance with some expenses associated with the test.

 

[eelsauce]

@LizzyM you are correct; all of it. I was just frustrated. As a low-income student, sometimes I get a feeling that I am leaving behind my hardships to become a physician knowing that the pathway is not an option for many of the people I was raised with let alone the people who are similar to me across the country (I know that poverty is relative and there are worse off in the world, but any hardship is still a hardship).

I can still make a difference in my community through investment, community initiatives/engagement (wellness fairs), mentorship, etc. But it can only go so far before I die. I just feel that AAMC should be doing a better job in the factors you addressed through pipeline programs; through better outreach to high-schools (they have few summer programs that are not well-advertised nor expansive; obviously they cannot address housing or financial concerns of the participants beyond the reach of said program).

@GreenDuck12 I do feel that my original post and the recent ones are not directly related but that is where I was coming from. Where do the FAP recipients go knowing that their financial disadvantage is still there. Do they become doctors eventually?; how did they perform on the exam and fare well into medical school?; etc.

Again these frustrations are probably misplaced but if you become the largest player in the game (AAMC), you must do a service to all possible applicants. Have dialogues with these affinity groups published; engage in public discourse with politicians and those serving the medically underserved (is that not why people are doctors?); do something.

AAMC can make decisions now that can include more economically disadvantaged applicants and minorities through pipeline programs today. In thirty years, they can make a larger impact through the lobbying they pay so much for (not necessarily to have better environments for possible physicians when they are infantile but for all children to have healthy, nurturing environments).

I have been told that I am too idealistic/socialistic/naive/innocent, and I recognize that now but does that preclude any change from happening? Or should we accept that once a student becomes an applicant, their fate it already decided?

 

[GreenDuck12]

Fate is definitely not decided once you apply but for now I recommend focusing on your app and things that are in your locus control. For reference, I grew up in a low income household, an underserved rural community, am a URM, and worked three jobs through college and I had a successful cycle. I was not on FAP because I had been working for a number of years before I applied. I agree there is a lot of work to be done if the US is indeed to be the egalitarian society that we were told about. But during the application cycle, it is so easy and tempting to fixate on things that are beyond your control. My advice is to focus on what you can do. Best of luck to you.

 

[illadvised]

I was a FAP member who was accepted to medical school last year (current M1). I can probably say that without the FAP I would have either never become a medical student or it would have taken me a few years to garner the money to apply. I did question if this program was a double edged sword because it showed that I was low SEC and low SEC students tend to perform lower on average in academics. I am still not sure how this is viewed in admissions but I was ultimately accepted to a US MD school. I also happen to be Caucasian so that may be a factor as well. While I seem to be doing fine in school as my first practice step 1 was in the top 5% of my class (which I admit is meaningless as it is a baseline) I bet you might see more lower SEC students go into less competitive specialties. While I do not know of data that shows how FAP applicants fare in med school or how many FAP members matriculate, there is data on income and medical school matriculants. For more than 30 years there has been a huge inequality between med school matriculants in terms of SEC. See the following study for more details: https://www.aamc.org/media/9596/download

Good luck and let me know if there is anything else your curious about!

 

[eelsauce]

Thank you for your response! I have been fortunate enough to interview at multiple US MD programs and get accepted since my initial post. At the time of the thread, I hadn't found anyone in my class that was also a FAP recipient so I felt lost. Thank you for your response again!