Feeling Depressed

[greytwhale]

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Second year university student, Biochemistry, GPA 3.7+, TA for a Chemistry class for a semester, i've been working in a Microbiology lab at a hospital for almost a year now. I also trade stocks on a large scale level, and am hoping to start a business out of this in a few years.

Got caught for cheating 3-4 weeks back. Straight up earned an F grade. Possible transcription notation. I'm very filled with regret about this all, and realize that what i've done is wrong.
The story: Family stress, many problems going on in my life for past 2 months. Cracked under the pressure. Decided I could earn a few points back by changing a few free response answers. Professors realized I changed them up, and have given me an "F" for the class. My school's academic misconduct committee has yet to decide on a possible institutional punishment, although based off of what i've been hearing from multiple sources, since it is my first incident, it will only be a record within the system that says, "yes this student has an incident of academic misconduct."

I realize that the world isn't all colorful rainbows, and that there are going to be multiple people that are going to tell me to leave this forum immediately because they are perfect human beings and that my sheer presence is dwindling away at their livelihoods, but please. Can anyone give me a little hope? In the near future when i apply for medical schools, will I even have a chance at any Caribbean schools? I need some light guys.

I was talking to a 4th year student at SGU via phone after calling the university yesterday, and she was trying to give me hope, that SGU would give me a second chance. But i don't know guys. I need some opinions and advice. Thank you.

 

[bedevilled ben]

All is not lost, and I don't think most schools would explicitly deny your application for a single isolated incidence of academic misconduct, so long as you don't try to hide it from them and absolutely don't repeat it.

Chin up, dust yourself off, learn from it, and carry on. Own up to your mistake and recognize that you'll have to be better in the future. Talk to an academic advisor that knows the med school application process, talk to the professor about your situation, see if they are willing to work with you to let you repeat the course for a grade replacement. Show that you are an otherwise outstanding applicant. Take time to study for the MCAT and take practice tests until you're scoring 28+ consistently. When it comes time for applications, apply broadly to MD/DO programs, especially at newer schools. Save the Caribbean as your last resort once you've exhausted all other possibilities.

 

[Skip Intro]

Can anyone give me a little hope?

I rarely say such things on this forum, but here goes...

Do you know what a "whelp" is? It's a baby wolf, a wolf puppy. Having just watched the "Wolf of Wall Street" on Netflix, reading your post this immediately came to mind. You're whelping right now.

My advice: Switch majors, or add a minor in business. Finish undergrad, get an MBA, and use your knowledge of science to work in finance at the investment level with companies producing new pharmaceuticals and biologics. I think you will be far happier in the long run doing something like that.

Of course I do not know you personally and can only go on the very limited info you posted above, but I sincerely - and, again, I rarely say such things on this forum, and never lightly - do not believe medicine is the right career for you. You will find something else equally rewarding to do in life. Don't get too bummed out. Learn from your mistakes. And go make a good life in the business world.

Good luck!

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Apply to SGU. Personally know 2 people who had academic integrity infractions who got into SGU. And it's not just hearsay or rumors- I sat in on their academic dishonesty hearings. If you're willing to let time pass between you and applying medical school, like 5 years, and use that time being productive and show ethical character/ get letters of Rec that support ethical and moral character, USMD/DO can still be attainable. Again, I'm speaking from experience with people in your situation.

 

[Skip Intro]

Apply to SGU. Personally know 2 people who had academic integrity infractions who got into SGU. And it's not just hearsay or rumors- I sat in on their academic dishonesty hearings. If you're willing to let time pass between you and applying medical school, like 5 years, and use that time being productive and show ethical character/ get letters of Rec that support ethical and moral character, USMD/DO can still be attainable. Again, I'm speaking from experience with people in your situation.

There are already enough "shortcut artists" in medicine. We don't need more. Sorry. Just how I feel. Feeling "stressed" is not a sufficient excuse. Plenty of us felt "stressed" but never cheated. Cheating is a compulsion that is very, very hard to overcome and has a high recidivism rate. Most cheaters only see the problem was getting caught.

Again, sorry, but I just have no sympathy for cheaters. Find something else to do with your life. Please.

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

There are already enough "shortcut artists" in medicine. We don't need more. Sorry. Just how I feel. Feeling "stressed" is not a sufficient excuse. Plenty of us felt "stressed" but never cheated. Cheating is a compulsion that is very, very hard to overcome and has a high recidivism rate. Most cheaters only see the problem was getting caught.

Again, sorry, but I just have no sympathy for cheaters. Find something else to do with your life. Please.

-Skip

OP didnt post for your "I have a clear conscience, I never made any mistakes" attitude. I stand by what I said. You can feel however you want. Unless you're on the adcom for one of the schools OP is applying to, your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Skip Intro]

OP didnt post for your "I have a clear conscience, I never made any mistakes" attitude. I stand by what I said. You can feel however you want. Unless you're on the adcom for one of the schools OP is applying to, your opinion is irrelevant.

I've made plenty of mistakes.

Cheating isn't a mistake. It's volitional. If you don't understand the difference, well...

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

Oh, and it wasn't just an opinion. It was advice, which is what many people come here asking for. I know the OP just wanted reassurance. He got the bonus answer. And, I'm not going to give reassurance in this instance.

I've known plenty of "shortcut artists" in the medical profession over the last 9 1/2 years of being a physician, both as a resident and as doctor in private practice. Trust me. These types spend a disproportionate amount of whatever they earn on attorney's fees.

greytwhale: Find another profession. Some day you'll thank me for that advice.

-Skip

 

[greytwhale]

Thanks guys, i know that no one is trying to make me feel bad, and you guys are only giving me advice and your opinions. I have hope now, and i know i can still make it in the world of medicine. I am going to hope and pray that i don't get an institutional penalty of any sort and i am going to talk to my academic advisor about this all. I will apply to a wide variety of med schools when the time comes, and will hope for the best. Thanks guys, you all have seriously brightened this man's day.

 

[Skip Intro]

God have mercy on us all. What the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously?

You are not a good fit for medicine. That is as obvious to me as the sun rising in the east every morning. You may get in. You may get your degree. You are not going to be happy.

-Skip

 

[greytwhale]

God have mercy on us all. What the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously?

You are not a good fit for medicine. That is as obvious to me as the sun rising in the east every morning. You may get in. You may get your degree. You are not going to be happy.

-S

Thank you for your reply, Skip. I really am considering taking up a minor in business. Much appreciated mate. A fall back plan in something i do as a hobby is a great idea

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

God have mercy on us all. What the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously?

You are not a good fit for medicine. That is as obvious to me as the sun rising in the east every morning. You may get in. You may get your degree. You are not going to be happy.

-Skip

How can you say this?? You know nothing about the applicant past this cheating infarction. You went to a Caribbean school, you should know better than to tell someone they're not equipped for medicine...

 

[Skip Intro]

How can you say this?? You know nothing about the applicant past this cheating infarction.

Again, what the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously. I would like a straight answer to that question.

You went to a Caribbean school, you should know better than to tell someone they're not equipped for medicine...

Holy Hannah! If that's the absolute only impression you've gotten out of pursuing this as an alternate pathway... I don't even know where to start with this.

Actually, I do. I guess I can suggest you go back to 2002 when I started posting on this forum and learn a little more about my personal story. If you're TL;DR challenged (like most of your generation), I'll summarize: It had nothing to do with academic inability. It had to do with hitting a professional glass ceiling and a planned career change. I even had a chance, probably, at a U.S. allopathic program if I'd been willing to sit out another year and take (NB: I didn't say re-take) the MCAT. I can also almost certainly promise you that I would've gotten into an osteopathy program, had I applied to one (and won't belabor the reasons I didn't at the time). Times were different then. I wouldn't now recommend skipping straight to the Caribbean as I did then without exhausting all other options first. Now? With my stats and undergrad scores along with the increased number of MD-program spots, I'd be surprised if I didn't get into a U.S. allopathic program somewhere. As I said, things were far different back then.

But, I can tell you this: my focus and interest was 100% in medicine, not distracted in finance and investing and thinking about making a career in that. And, it most certainly never involved cheating.

I passed all of my tests on the first try - I didn't fail any classes at Ross, I didn't fail any of the USMLE Steps (all four of them) and, in fact, passed Step 1 and 2-CK with above-the-mean scores. I landed in a university-based residency program at a competitive institution in a competitive specialty. I completed my residency on-time with a spotless record. And, I passed my board-certification on the first try.

You can't cheat on any of those things.

I've been in private practice for 5 1/2 years. I'm treated and respected just as ANY U.S. medical school-trained physician by my patients and my colleagues. In fact, part of my responsibilities to this day include teaching residents and medical students.

So, actually, I'm precisely the type of person who should be telling someone they're not equipped for medicine, especially distracted cheater-types with whom I've had the extreme displeasure of having to work with professionally and have seen go down in flames - two of them.

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Again, what the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously. I would like a straight answer to that question.



Holy Hannah! If that's the absolute only impression you've gotten out of pursuing this as an alternate pathway... I don't even know where to start with this.

Actually, I do. I guess I can suggest you go back to 2003 when I started posting on this forum and learn a little more about my personal story. If you're TL;DR challenged (like most of your generation), I'll summarize: It had nothing to do with academic inability. It had to do with hitting a professional glass ceiling and a planned career change. I can also almost certainly promise you that I would've gotten into an osteopathy program, had I applied to one (and won't belabor the reasons I didn't at the time). I even had a chance, probably, at a U.S. allopathic program if I'd been willing to sit out another year and take (NB: I didn't say re-take) the MCAT. Times were different then. I wouldn't now recommend skipping straight to the Caribbean as I did then without exhausting all other options first.

But, I can tell you this: my focus and interest was 100% in medicine, not distracted in finance and investing and thinking about making a career in that. And, it most certainly never involved cheating.

I passed all of my tests on the first try - I didn't fail any classes at Ross, I didn't fail any of the USMLE Steps (all four of them) and, in fact, passed Step 1 and 2-CK with above-the-mean scores. I landed in a university-based residency program at a competitive institution in a competitive specialty. I completed my residency on-time with a spotless record. And, I passed my board-certification on the first try.

You can't cheat on any of those things.

I've been in private practice for 5 1/2 years. I'm treated and respected just as ANY U.S. medical school-trained physician by my patients and my colleagues.

So, actually, I'm precisely the type of person who should be telling someone they're not equipped for medicine, especially distracted cheater-types with whom I've had the extreme displeasure of having to work with professionally and have seen go down in flames - two of them.

-Skip

You're correct, I'm TL;DR challenged and I really couldn't care less about you or your story so...okay. That's cute that you thought I was going to read all of that though.

Anyway, OP I suggest you start entertaining new ventures or taking some time off before applying to medical school, and in that time, doing something truly productive and working on showing that you CAN act in an ethical manner.

 

[Skip Intro]

You're correct, I'm TL;DR challenged and I really couldn't care less about you or your story so...okay. That's cute that you thought I was going to read all of that though.

And, there, my friends, is the answer to precisely what is wrong with the majority of your generation: you're not interested in details, you want everything handed to you, you want to be fully excused for your poor choices no matter what they were, you have no true moral compass, and nothing is ever completely your fault.

God save us.

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

And, there, my friends, is the answer to precisely what is wrong with the majority of your generation: you're not interested in details, you want everything handed to you, you want to be fully excused for your poor choices no matter what they were, you have no true moral compass, and nothing is ever completely your fault.

God save us.

-Skip

You're quite good at making assumptions about people over the INTERNET. It's the Internet. Lord. Please, spare me your know-it-all attitude. I suggest that you learn to stop making generalizations.

 

[Skip Intro]

And you're narcissistic. Self-indulgently so to the point that, watching you act in groups, I honestly don't know how you can stand each other.

I'm willing to bet I'm old enough to be your father, by the way. Just for the record.

-Skip

 

[jl lin]

Again, what the hell is wrong with your generation? Seriously. I would like a straight answer to that question.



Holy Hannah! If that's the absolute only impression you've gotten out of pursuing this as an alternate pathway... I don't even know where to start with this.

Actually, I do. I guess I can suggest you go back to 2002 when I started posting on this forum and learn a little more about my personal story. If you're TL;DR challenged (like most of your generation), I'll summarize: It had nothing to do with academic inability. It had to do with hitting a professional glass ceiling and a planned career change. I even had a chance, probably, at a U.S. allopathic program if I'd been willing to sit out another year and take (NB: I didn't say re-take) the MCAT. I can also almost certainly promise you that I would've gotten into an osteopathy program, had I applied to one (and won't belabor the reasons I didn't at the time). Times were different then. I wouldn't now recommend skipping straight to the Caribbean as I did then without exhausting all other options first. Now? With my stats and undergrad scores along with the increased number of MD-program spots, I'd be surprised if I didn't get into a U.S. allopathic program somewhere. As I said, things were far different back then.

But, I can tell you this: my focus and interest was 100% in medicine, not distracted in finance and investing and thinking about making a career in that. And, it most certainly never involved cheating.

I passed all of my tests on the first try - I didn't fail any classes at Ross, I didn't fail any of the USMLE Steps (all four of them) and, in fact, passed Step 1 and 2-CK with above-the-mean scores. I landed in a university-based residency program at a competitive institution in a competitive specialty. I completed my residency on-time with a spotless record. And, I passed my board-certification on the first try.

You can't cheat on any of those things.

I've been in private practice for 5 1/2 years. I'm treated and respected just as ANY U.S. medical school-trained physician by my patients and my colleagues. In fact, part of my responsibilities to this day include teaching residents and medical students.

So, actually, I'm precisely the type of person who should be telling someone they're not equipped for medicine, especially distracted cheater-types with whom I've had the extreme displeasure of having to work with professionally and have seen go down in flames - two of them.

-Skip

Besides the moral and ethical issues that you speak for themselves, this must be emphasized as well:

You can't cheat on any of those things.

People are going to do what they want, and this person who is now a respected attending physician knows this. He is trying to give sound advise.

Can people change? Sure, to some degree, but it takes something incredibly powerful b/c it is the path of least resistance.

Whatever the OP chooses, well the best to him/her. But the OP has been given a perspective that is worthy of quiet introspection. But I would add that the ideal is for the person to come to a peaceful sense of real ethics and integrity regardless of what profession s/he pursues.

It can't be about what's in it for me, first and foremost--this is especially true for medicine and related fields. Are there people in it like that? Yes; but why would anyone think this is a standard by which any such profession would function?

Again, OP will do what he/she wants. But go back to your truest "why" for medicine.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

And you're narcissistic. Self-indulgently so to the point that, watching you act in groups, I honestly don't know how you can stand each other.

I'm willing to bet I'm old enough to be your father, by the way. Just for the record.

-Skip

Huh? Watching me act in groups? Narcissistic? Because I told you not to judge someone based off of knowing nothing about them? You know me? Dad? Is that you?

Okay, I'm not entertaining this conversation. You might enjoy engaging in arguments on the Internet with individuals old enough to be your child's age, but I'm not. You're a physician, yeah? How you have time for this is actually blowing my mind lol. So many more things you could be doing. For the record, you are very condescending. Just because you may have all of 10 years on my age doesn't mean you have a right to be disrespectful. Anyway, have a great day, doc! Xoxo

 

[jl lin]

Also, real depression is MUCH different from simple feelings of regret. Seriously. I know you wrote "feeling depressed," but there are a number of people that can't fully appreciate what they are suggesting when they say that.

Once again, you can't blame Skip and other physicians for wanting ethically quality people working with them in their profession.

 

[Skip Intro]

How you have time for this is actually blowing my mind lol

This is my favorite type of attack on the internet, by the way. Usually used when you can no longer really argue a point.

So, for the record, it's the day after Christmas. I can spend it however I want. I could be shopping and exchanging Christmas presents I didn't like, I could be at a movie, I could be heading out to dinner... oh, wait, I am in a few.

Trying to help people (not just this poster... or you, for that matter) not make a life mistake is one of those ways I chose to spend my time today. So, might I suggest that you either raise the threshold of having your mind blown or, at the very least, disengage the hyperbole.

And, this is called backing up your statements:

Much good research on personality traits shows that Millennials in college are (statistically) significantly different from previous generations (e.g., Baby Boomers and Gen Xers). Millenials, as compared with previous generations at the same age, have been show to be higher on positive traits such as self-esteem and assertiveness (Twenge and Campbell 2001) as well as negative traits such as narcissism (Twenge et al. 2008).

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10869-010-9177-2#page-1

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

This is my favorite type of attack on the internet, by the way. Usually used when you can no longer really argue a point.

So, for the record, it's the day after Christmas. I can spend it however I want. I could be shopping and exchanging Christmas presents I didn't like, I could be at a movie, I could be heading out to dinner... oh, wait, I am in a few.

Trying to help people (not just this poster... or you, for that matter) not make a life mistake is one of those ways I chose to spend my time today. So, might I suggest that you either raise the threshold of having your mind blown or, at the very least, disengage the hyperbole.

And, this is called backing up your statements:



http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10869-010-9177-2#page-1

-Skip

Thank you for this! Everything is so much clearer now. Enjoy dinner, Skip! 🙂

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Also, real depression is MUCH different from simple feelings of regret. Seriously. I know you wrote "feeling depressed," but there are a number of people that can't fully appreciate what they are suggesting when they say that.

Once again, you can't blame Skip and other physicians for wanting ethically quality people working with them in their profession.

Oh, I completely understand that. No one wants to work with a cheater. But the way he was so dismissive of the OP's real concerns, telling them to go into business instead? I just felt like it was unnecessary. Maybe I'm just big on second chances and it struck a chord with me.

 

[Skip Intro]

Oh, I completely understand that. No one wants to work with a cheater. But the way he was so dismissive of the OP's real concerns, telling them to go into business instead? I just felt like it was unnecessary. Maybe I'm just big on second chances and it struck a chord with me.

It's because you lack a moral compass. 😉

-Skip

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

It's because you lack a moral compass. 😉

-Skip

Yes, yes that's it. Please do continue to tell me about myself. Do you also know where I live? My favorite food? Go to dinner, Skippy! Jeesh. Get some steak, you already know that's my favorite! 🙂

 

[owlegrad]

One thread is plenty: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/feeling-depressed.1113533/