feeling used in my research lab

[cloudysunshine]

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I have been in the same lab for a year.
For one semester, I started out learning the ropes, getting acquainted, showing them that I could be trusted. Prior to this, I already had a years worth of experience in a research setting so I learned everything very quickly.

After that, the grad student I work with told me that if I could arrange my schedule to come in more often, he would assign me a mini-project. So I began working 4 days a week during the second semester. However, during that time, he also had me running a bunch of experiments for him, and my mini-project fell to the wayside, and didn't go in the direction we had planned.

Then this summer, I am still working in this lab (at least I have a stipend now). In the beginning of the summer, I asked for more independence, and so the grad student assigned me 2 other projects. Now naturally it takes time for the project to get going... so I worked on these 2 things for one month, but the majority of my time is still spent doing ALL his benchwork. He barely does anything hands-on now--- just takes the data I generate and analyzes it. Half the time, he makes me analyze the data for him, while he goes shopping, to the gym, or runs errands.

To compound matters, the other day, I noticed that the cells and samples for my projects were missing. I asked him where they went, and he said he threw away the components of my project because he really needs to push his own project forward so that he can publish his paper in the fall.

Now, understandably I am SO annoyed. Here I am, in the lab for 7-8 hours doing benchwork NON-STOP. And it's all for his stuff that he gets to publish. If there were promise of me at least getting my name on the paper, I would feel better... but there has been no mention and I am hesitant to bring it up to him.

I feel that I need to address these concerns with him, but at the same time, I don't want to step on any toes because I'll need a letter of rec from this lab in the future. Can anyone offer their opinions on this matter? Should my work merit authorship on the paper, if without me, there is no way that he would have all these results?

 

[Mr Avante]

why HIM? the graduate student is the only one in charge of you?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I have been in the same lab for a year.
For one semester, I started out learning the ropes, getting acquainted, showing them that I could be trusted. Prior to this, I already had a years worth of experience in a research setting so I learned everything very quickly.

After that, the grad student I work with told me that if I could arrange my schedule to come in more often, he would assign me a mini-project. So I began working 4 days a week during the second semester. However, during that time, he also had me running a bunch of experiments for him, and my mini-project fell to the wayside, and didn't go in the direction we had planned.

Then this summer, I am still working in this lab (at least I have a stipend now). In the beginning of the summer, I asked for more independence, and so the grad student assigned me 2 other projects. Now naturally it takes time for the project to get going... so I worked on these 2 things for one month, but the majority of my time is still spent doing ALL his benchwork. He barely does anything hands-on now--- just takes the data I generate and analyzes it. Half the time, he makes me analyze the data for him, while he goes shopping, to the gym, or runs errands.

To compound matters, the other day, I noticed that the cells and samples for my projects were missing. I asked him where they went, and he said he threw away the components of my project because he really needs to push his own project forward so that he can publish his paper in the fall.

Now, understandably I am SO annoyed. Here I am, in the lab for 7-8 hours doing benchwork NON-STOP. And it's all for his stuff that he gets to publish. If there were promise of me at least getting my name on the paper, I would feel better... but there has been no mention and I am hesitant to bring it up to him.

I feel that I need to address these concerns with him, but at the same time, I don't want to step on any toes because I'll need a letter of rec from this lab in the future. Can anyone offer their opinions on this matter? Should my work merit authorship on the paper, if without me, there is no way that he would have all these results?

Most likely you will go on the paper with him, and that should be your biggest priority anyway, trying to get published with him. Ask him up front about it. If he gives you crap or doesn't want to put you on, then stop helping him and find another lab.

 

[cloudysunshine]

why HIM? the graduate student is the only one in charge of you?

Yes, I work directly under the grad student. The PI is the "big boss" but I don't have much contact with him.

 

[cloudysunshine]

Most likely you will go on the paper with him, and that should be your biggest priority anyway, trying to get published with him. Ask him up front about it. If he gives you crap or doesn't want to put you on, then stop helping him and find another lab.

So do you feel that my benchwork/data analysis warrants authorship? Because everyone keeps saying that I have to have "intellectual contribution" to the project design and that's where I fall short.

 

[Mr Avante]

probably he won't even get it published. Find a new lab that cares about you.

 

[cloudysunshine]

probably he won't even get it published. Find a new lab that cares about you.

Actually, I'm 100% confident that he will publish a paper out of this project by mid 2014.
As for my inclusion as an author? or getting any credit? not so confident.

 

[gobigorgohome22]

Actually, I'm 100% confident that he will publish a paper out of this project by mid 2014.
As for my inclusion as an author? or getting any credit? not so confident.

Casually bring up if you'll be on the paper or not. See what his reaction is and go from there. Maybe talk to the PI to see if you'll be on the paper. The PI can override his decision.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

IMO, you are paid help at this point. I don't think the benchwork alone will get your name on the paper. The grad student throwing away your samples speaks volumes about his attitude. Bring it up with him, and if it seems you are at a dead end, ask the PI if you can be given your own project from Fall onwards. If not, find a new lab. I'm sure your two years of lab experience will find you something better.

 

[Goro]

If you did the work without being a mere technician, and were able to work independently, troubleshoot, and made a contribution, then I think you certainly deserve authorship.

This situation is a test of your maturity, actually. You need to talk to the PI about this. So stand up for yourself.

Also keep in mind that you're not in the lab for your benefit only; your presence has to benefit the lab.

This will make for some good answers to interview questions like handling adversity or difficult situations/people.

So do you feel that my benchwork/data analysis warrants authorship? Because everyone keeps saying that I have to have "intellectual contribution" to the project design and that's where I fall short.

 

[ChemEngMD]

If you did the work without being a mere technician, and were able to work independently, troubleshoot, and made a contribution, then I think you certainly deserve authorship.

This situation is a test of your maturity, actually. You need to talk to the PI about this. So stand up for yourself.

Also keep in mind that you're not in the lab for your benefit only; your presence has to benefit the lab.

This will make for some good answers to interview questions like handling adversity or difficult situations/people.

👍👍👍 +1

As a graduate student, I will co-sign this.

Also, has the grad student passed his pre-lims and is only doing research now? I only ask because sometimes PIs allow grad students to function more like mini-PIs after they've passed their pre-lims. Don't let the grad student bully you, if he is a scientist then he will have to man up to your contribution.

Side note: what you are doing in this lab, would definitely get you on a paper in my lab. So IMO you deserve it.

 

[chillaxbro]

It'd be a shame if he lost all his data

 

[yehhhboiii]

It'd be a shame if he lost all his data

If he lost all the op's data you mean

 

[La Presse]

Authorship is an extremely sensitive topic. Tread carefully.

 

[siliconchins]

.

 

[I Love Cats]

If he lost all the op's data you mean

Hijack the data and write your own paper. It is your data after all...

 

[Jennyfishy]

In my experience, someone who contributes a significant amount of the data is usually awarded first authorship in our lab, but it has to be agreed upon between the grad student and/or PI first. My PI would at least give you 2nd author based on the work you've done, if it ends up getting cited and used in a paper. Most likely 1st though. Definitely talk to the student, and take it up to the PI if they seem like they're only using you/plan on snuffing you at the last minute!

 

[Arbor Vitae]

So do you feel that my benchwork/data analysis warrants authorship? Because everyone keeps saying that I have to have "intellectual contribution" to the project design and that's where I fall short.

well there are 2 types of labs: those that publish undergrads and those that don't. If you are in the type that makes you do the bench work for a grad student and does NOT put you on the paper, then switch labs and stop helping him.

 

[911 Turbo]

So why don't you learn to stand up for yourself (its a valuable skill) and talk to the PI?

 

[911 Turbo]

If you did the work without being a mere technician, and were able to work independently, troubleshoot, and made a contribution, then I think you certainly deserve authorship.

This situation is a test of your maturity, actually. You need to talk to the PI about this. So stand up for yourself.

Also keep in mind that you're not in the lab for your benefit only; your presence has to benefit the lab.

This will make for some good answers to interview questions like handling adversity or difficult situations/people.

Posted my reply without reading yours but you said it better than me... Listen to this OP.

 

[cloudysunshine]

If you did the work without being a mere technician, and were able to work independently, troubleshoot, and made a contribution, then I think you certainly deserve authorship.

Honestly, I am not sure whether the work I do is merely technician work or beyond that. It might fall more under tech work.
Basically, the grad student has the large gung-ho project going on. He has 10 cell lines that he needs to profile. So what I do is:
-maintain all the cell lines (this takes 10 hours/week)
-extract RNA or harvest protein from the cells
-make cDNA from the RNA
-extract lipids
-bunch of transformations, minipreps, sequencing, qPCR in between
etc etc
then the resulting samples go onto a mass spectrometer, which spits out a ton of raw data, so I:
-sift through and organize the data
-manually integrate it into a spreadsheet

This gives us all the nice and pretty data. When I integrate the data into the spreadsheet, it results in a figure, which is essentially publication ready. The grad student looks at this data and interprets it and he has total autonomy over the next steps and design of the project. He does at least sit down and talk with me over what the data means and how it influences the outcome of the research.


Without me contributing my time, my effort, and my skill (I have really good, steady hands in lab, and I never ever screw anything up...I know this seems like a insignificant thing, but the other undergrads in the lab usually impede progress rather than enhance it. In fact, I often catch some of the grad students mistakes in calculations and experiment set up.), he would have to do all of the above by himself... and dare I say he would be at only half the progress he is at now.

+1.

It's up to the discretion of the PI whether to include you as an author, not the grad student. If you tell him that you contributed to the data that the grad student uses to publish his paper, then there is probably a fair chance your name would also be on there somewhere. Probably not a first or second author, but as a coauthor which is still meritorious, especially as an undergrad.

So why don't you learn to stand up for yourself (its a valuable skill) and talk to the PI?

Yes, I am planning to. But I just want to make sure I have enough ammo before I barge in there and ask for authorship. I'm not expecting much, just having my name on the list, no matter what position, is really fine by me.

 

[CnsCrit]

If what your saying is true, and you are the one doing all the experiments, you absolutely should be an author. I don't care whether your in a lab that "doesnt publish undergrads." If you don't get authorship in some way, its unethical--plain and simple. As a former grad student, I would have definitely put your name on the paper. Your grad student should be working harder and doing more benchwork than you. If he's not, he's lazy and trying to take advantage of you. I would bring it up with him. State what you think your contributions are to the project be firm.

 

[cloudysunshine]

Does anyone have advice on how to approach the conversation and word what I say?
I was thinking of saying, "Hey ____, so when this project goes to completion and is to be published, how does all the work I've done on it factor in?"
Or I could just be blunt and say, "Would the work I've done be enough to put me as an author on the paper?"

Also, should I talk to the grad student first or the PI?

Thanks all!

 

[MilkIsGood]

Does anyone have advice on how to approach the conversation and word what I say?
I was thinking of saying, "Hey ____, so when this project goes to completion and is to be published, how does all the work I've done on it factor in?"
Or I could just be blunt and say, "Would the work I've done be enough to put me as an author on the paper?"

Also, should I talk to the grad student first or the PI?

Thanks all!

PI usually makes the decision on authorship with input from the grad student. If you've done the data collection and contributed some part of the writing of the paper (this includes making one little figure), you would be eligible to be a co-author. But, PI has final say.

 

[cloudysunshine]

PI usually makes the decision on authorship with input from the grad student. If you've done the data collection and contributed some part of the writing of the paper (this includes making one little figure), you would be eligible to be a co-author. But, PI has final say.

Okay, this gives me some peace in my heart because 2 other undergrads have been published (and they worked far fewer hours than I have), so perhaps my PI is not totally against undergrads publishing. But would it be wiser to ask the PI first then?

 

[ReadyToRumble]

well there are 2 types of labs: those that publish undergrads and those that don't. If you are in the type that makes you do the bench work for a grad student and does NOT put you on the paper, then switch labs and stop helping him.

Totally agree. There are also graduate students who will appreciate you wholeheartedly (some kid just traced neurons for a few months and got his name on a paper, I'm totally serious) and there are others who will think nothing of you even if you're contributing majorly (preparing animals, getting data, analyzing data, graphs, formulas, etc.--no name on paper). I've been behind the scenes in many of these conversations and some graduate students have superiority complexes and see everyone else as children, even though they're only barely older. They seriously believe they're changing the world and you're just their "lab b*tch" (their words, not mine).

PI usually makes the decision on authorship with input from the grad student. If you've done the data collection and contributed some part of the writing of the paper (this includes making one little figure), you would be eligible to be a co-author. But, PI has final say.

Okay, this gives me some peace in my heart because 2 other undergrads have been published (and they worked far fewer hours than I have), so perhaps my PI is not totally against undergrads publishing. But would it be wiser to ask the PI first then?

PI makes the final decision but if your PI isn't particularly involved (and most aren't) then they won't even think about you when submitting the paper. The only thing that will even remind them of your possible co-authorship is the graduate student. If the graduate student doesn't think of you, then your PI won't suddenly bat for you. Seriously it won't even enter their mind that your name wasn't listed if the graduate student who wrote up the paper didn't list you.

As others have mentioned, this is a really tricky subject. Even if you collected the data and analyzed it and produced a graph for it, your lab could still not include you as an author. I don't have any advice for you because I haven't seen someone successfully get their name on a paper after encountering resistance from lab members. You can either leave the lab to find a place that will publish you or, particularly if you're only applying M.D., just keep doing your best and making sure the PI is aware of your commitment so you get a great letter. I'm sorry, the politics of research is really unfair sometimes. I do hope you find a way to make it work though!

 

[yehhhboiii]

Totally agree. There are also graduate students who will appreciate you wholeheartedly (some kid just traced neurons for a few months and got his name on a paper, I'm totally serious) and there are others who will think nothing of you even if you're contributing majorly (preparing animals, getting data, analyzing data, graphs, formulas, etc.--no name on paper). I've been behind the scenes in many of these conversations and some graduate students have superiority complexes and see everyone else as children, even though they're only barely older. They seriously believe they're changing the world and you're just their "lab b*tch" (their words, not mine).

Hey you might think it's a joke but tracing neurons is harder than you think. Try it for a few days, you'll feel the carpal tunnel coming on

 

[Mr Avante]

Honestly, I am not sure whether the work I do is merely technician work or beyond that. It might fall more under tech work.
Basically, the grad student has the large gung-ho project going on. He has 10 cell lines that he needs to profile. So what I do is:
-maintain all the cell lines (this takes 10 hours/week)
-extract RNA or harvest protein from the cells
-make cDNA from the RNA
-extract lipids
-bunch of transformations, minipreps, sequencing, qPCR in between
etc etc
then the resulting samples go onto a mass spectrometer, which spits out a ton of raw data, so I:
-sift through and organize the data
-manually integrate it into a spreadsheet

This gives us all the nice and pretty data. When I integrate the data into the spreadsheet, it results in a figure, which is essentially publication ready. The grad student looks at this data and interprets it and he has total autonomy over the next steps and design of the project. He does at least sit down and talk with me over what the data means and how it influences the outcome of the research.


Without me contributing my time, my effort, and my skill (I have really good, steady hands in lab, and I never ever screw anything up...I know this seems like a insignificant thing, but the other undergrads in the lab usually impede progress rather than enhance it. In fact, I often catch some of the grad students mistakes in calculations and experiment set up.), he would have to do all of the above by himself... and dare I say he would be at only half the progress he is at now.

You deserve credit.
This is a lot of work. In fact, this is the work he should be doing. Talk to the PI asap.

 

[ReadyToRumble]

Hey you might think it's a joke but tracing neurons is harder than you think. Try it for a few days, you'll feel the carpal tunnel coming on

I've done it. It's work, but two months of tracing doesn't take the same level of dedication, skill, time, etc. that the other people in the lab put for other projects and received no authorship credit for. I won't get into the details (you can PM me about it if you're really interested) but the point I was making was that carrying a project through from start to finish using many techniques for several semesters can render you nothing while doing one task repeatedly (didn't take the original pictures of the neurons, no analysis, no part in writing the paper, just the tracing for about two months) can get you a paper---it's a luck of the draw and just depends who you're working under/with.

 

[slopes23]

well there are 2 types of labs: those that publish undergrads and those that don't. If you are in the type that makes you do the bench work for a grad student and does NOT put you on the paper, then switch labs and stop helping him.

Agreed, I worked in a well known lab for 2 years, had a great relationship with my post-doc and did a bunch of his stuff for him. Never got my name on any of his papers because lab policy was no undergrads on papers. They consistently cited NIH rules for authors on publications and said that undergrads were not contributing intellectually. intellectually does not count as being involved in analysis, as data analysis. Intellectual contribution (at least as they defined it) consisted as being a contributing member in setting up how experiments were done, discussing the problems and giving solutions, knowing what the data actually meant, and so on and so forth. I am not saying that what you did doesn't merit credit, but at least in my old lab it would not have gotten you published.

Upon my own realization of this I decided to leave the lab and pursue other things like volunteer and shadowing as it is most germane to what I want to be doing any way, and I felt that I had gotten everything I was going to get out of that experience. I left with out breaking bridges or throwing a fit, I got a great letter of rec, and have some great experiences to talk about should it come up during interviews, and I went on to bigger and better things.

On the bright side, after about a year or so, that working in a lab setting really wasn't for me. More than anything I just didn't like the culture of it. It seems very paper driven, and it's less about finding ground breaking research in a field you care about and more about getting your name on as many papers as possible (the better quality the better but still) and furthering you're own brand. I have no problem with that I think the work they do is necessary and even if it's not done for what i perceive to be the right reasons it still has tremendous impact but at the end of the day it wasn't for me. Where I belong is on the receiving end of their work combining research with the people who are sick and need to get better.

Point being, if you only want to go into medicine and not your MD, don't worry about it and take what you can from the experience and move on. If you feel like research is your calling then sit down and have a talk with your PI and figure out what the rules are and what it takes to become an author. If you aren't happy with those rules then leave the lab with a letter of rec. and go to a new lab more to your liking. It might serve you well to ask about these things before hand so you do not find yourself having committed so much time towards a cause that will not give you what you feel you need to be fulfilled.


Good luck

 

[cloudysunshine]

But...if two other undergrads have already been published (with a different, somewhat more "fair" grad student), and they were not in lab nearly as often nor did they do as many experiments as I have, should I point this out if they say I cannot be named author? It feels a bit immature to do so, but it infuriates me that they were handed this opportunity with half the effort, in the same lab, no less.

 

[NervousNerd]

But...if two other undergrads have already been published (with a different, somewhat more "fair" grad student), and they were not in lab nearly as often nor did they do as many experiments as I have, should I point this out if they say I cannot be named author? It feels a bit immature to do so, but it infuriates me that they were handed this opportunity with half the effort, in the same lab, no less.

If you feel like YOU deserve ownership in what you have been working on, make it be known. This is not being pushy but a pure assertion of your own efforts.

Welcome to the real world OP

 

[catzzz88]

My advice would be to think out this thoroughly. I call this "Reminding" with a capital R. You need to do some Reminding. When making decisions or trying to interpret others, I always think about (1) motivation, (2) offerings, and (3) personality.

(1) What motivates this graduate student? Based on what you have said and common knowledge, he wants to get a paper published with his name on it... Well, look at that.... You want the same thing. That makes this an easy one.

(2) What can you offer to help him attain his goal? Seems like you are doing all of his work. You can offer your time and technical expertise. You are the limiting factor. Sure, he could hire someone else, but they would have to be trained. sure, he could do it himself, but he seems incredibly lazy. The easiest option is to keep you... so you have a little bit of leverage there.

(3) What kind of personality are you dealing with? Can you be open and forthright with him? Is he jealous, lazy, intelligent, unpredictable, etc.? Take this into account before moving forward... tread lightly ....

Now, the trick is to Remind the graduate student of (1) what he wants, (2) what you want, and, most importantly, (3) how the two can be integrated effectively. Remind the graduate student that you are doing all of the bench work. Remind the graduate student that if he motivates you to work on his project, his project will be completed at a faster rate. Remind the graduate student that one way you can be motivated is by being offered a spot on the author list. Remind the graduate student that if you were offered a spot on the authorship list, you would work harder, faster, and would be more engaged and interested.

"I have an idea that I would like your feedback on. I was excited about working on some of the side projects you gave me because I thought it would be a great place for me to show my skills to the team and find a way to progress my career by possibly getting my name on a paper. I was very interested in those projects and I was a little bit upset that you decided that they were not worthy leads to follow. However, I trust your judgement. Thus, I have a proposal. I am very interested/excited in the main project that I have been assisting you with and I would love to be a major part of your team. I want to help the project move forward as quickly as possible. I think that I can even start coming in for two more hours on Mondays. Also, I think that I provide highly efficient and legitimate work; I have a steady hand and I am always focused on producing a high quality product for you. I want to know if you think this kind of work would make me worthy of being on the author list? It is really a win-win situation if you think about it: I will focus 100% on your project, I will work even harder because I can depend on a decent reward at the end, and you can trust me to be engaged and motivated. Does this sound like something that could be arranged? Do you think that I should talk to the PI about my options?"

Remind the graduate student that he is the boss, that you respect him, but that you want to be filled in on his plan with regard to you... because it is directly relevant to your short-term and long-term career goals. Remind him that he can utilize you most effectively if he gives you a bright and shiny pot of gold at the end of the PCR-antibody-media-GFP-spectrometry colored rainbow. Then, you are genuinely more motivated because you feel more like a part of the team and he is happier because he can continue to be lazy and throw all of the work on you. But, with your name on a paper at the end of the road, you are pretty happy to be doing the grunt work!

Good luck... If he says no, get out of the lab ASAP and find a more ethical team to work with!

Best,
C

 

[magicm]

IMO if you generated an important figure then you go on the paper.

regarding how to approach getting the authorship: Do you meet with your PI on a regular basis or did they assign you your original project? If so I like the I was wondering how to prioritize my remaining time this semester to best align with the lab goals and targets. You can mention that your time has been split between the two projects (i would even mention generating figures and bring copies of the figures just encase they want to see), and with the recent changes in cell availability you want to make sure you are focusing in the best area.

you could even mention that you want to focus on getting out papers for your career development if you want.

I have used this approach before and found it very successful as it doesn't step on anyone's toes and reminds the PI of what you have done/been doing.

 

[slopes23]

But...if two other undergrads have already been published (with a different, somewhat more "fair" grad student), and they were not in lab nearly as often nor did they do as many experiments as I have, should I point this out if they say I cannot be named author? It feels a bit immature to do so, but it infuriates me that they were handed this opportunity with half the effort, in the same lab, no less.

Lets put some things in perspective here. You are not competing directly with those other two undergrads from your lab. No adcom is going to be able to put 2 and 2 together and say hey you know John really stood out, he never got on a paper but thats okay because that was his labs policy. But wait, Jane is from that same lab and so is Tommy and both of them got on papers. Let's let Tommy and Jane in but not John.

Point being, if you don't tell them that there are 2 other undergrads that got on papers, they will never know. More over it's not what important. Let me just reiterate the importance of research to adcoms if you are NOT applying MD/Ph.D. There is certainly a box for it, and it obviously helps, but it does not make up for clinical exposure (volunteering/shadowing). I found out the hard way after committing 2 years of my time to a lab. But, on the bright side when and if it comes up I known I can talk about about my experiences in the lab much more coherently than others can and can easily show I did more then just bench work.

As I am sure you have realized on here, there are a lot of different labs, and a lot of different standards. People get on papers just for tracing neurons which is stupid (I can say it's stupid because I started out my research doing it half the day for 2 months when i started), while there are others like you and I that did a lot of super technical stuff and were even involved in analysis of the data we generated. But that's where it stops, it's a leap to say that we were actually intellectually involved in the assay development process and were intricate parts of the troubling shooting process when things weren't going as planned. Sure we can make suggestions here and there but overall we really were just lab techs. It's also a really big leap to say that with out us, they would have never been able to generate all of that data. Don't get your graduate student's trust in you to run all of his experiments confused with his ability to actually run them himself if need be.

Having said all of that it's not to say that we got nothing from the experience. Adcoms and interviewers know all to well that different labs have different protocols all have different standards for authorship, which is why they ask questions. If you got on a paper and were barely involved it shows very easily. Research experience at the undergraduate level is much less about how many papers you published and much more about how well you can coherently describe your experiences at the lab and talk about what you learned. These learning experiences should range from working as a part of a team, working independently, learning new things quickly, actually being able to understand your research and present it effectively (in terms that someone who doesn't have a science background can understand).

To drive this point in, you could have learned the most out of everyone, gotten your name published on a bunch of papers, and if when it came down to the interview you couldn't talk about your experience effectively it will all be for not.

So to answer your question, no I would not recommend bringing up the students in your lab who got papers despite the policy being no undergrads get published. And if you get asked about it, I would glaze over it very quickly and not hark on it. Just tell them in a nonchalant manner that undergrads don't get published but it's okay cause you still were able to learn a whole bunch and got a lot from the experience. And from there you can pivot the conversation wherever you want so that you can describe all of those experiences. At this point the interviewer thinks to themselves "This kid seems to have had a genuine experience, he seems to be mature in that he was able to take things away from the experience and use them as a growing experience, he also seems like he is intelligent and was involved in the process as he clearly and coherently describes what he was working on." Don't confuse didn't whine with I had only good experiences. Part of being mature is recognizing the good experiences along with the bad ones, but taking each in the same manner so that you can learn from them, whether you learned more about lab politics, yourself in certain situations or that you just didn't feel fulfilled in what you were doing. It's all about the take away.

Sorry for rambling on but I wanted to try and make myself as clear as possible as it sounds as if many on here do not really recognize what's really important here. (Not to mention that you shouldn't be taking lab specific advise from those in other labs cause what are you going to to? Hey Mr. PI I was on da interweb thing and one of dem peeps told mesa that if mesa contribute in XX way that mesa should be on da list of authorz. Kk Thnx!"

I think it goes with out saying that this applies to all of your EC activities. If you can't effectively talk about what you got out of volunteering or shadowing you almost might as well not have bothered doing it.

 

[Cinclus]

Yes, you work merits an authorship. Address these concerns with your PI, who can then make sure your name is on the paper.

 

[UCLAzy]

slopes gets it. seems like you did a lot of work, which is great.. sounds like you learned a lot. but you didnt develop the assays. you didnt troubleshoot issues by reading papers and seeing what others did. you didnt look at the data and say 'this is where we need to go next'. you are at the very most a lab tech. nothing you described requires intellectual thought, just monotonous repetition.

the fact that you say things like 'my project' and '100% confident he will publish by xxxx' really shows how green you are. nothing is yours. and if the goal is to publish by 2014 he may, but more often it'll take a year or so of rejections and resubmissions and major revisions to actually have it accepted. then even longer for it to actually be "published". and this is assuming all of the proposed experiments work as planned and there are no road blocks (ha). i cant believe people work for a year and expect to be published. what's going to happen in medical school and beyond when you work really hard but people dont treat you like a king?

 

[Ruminate]

Key advice to avoid these situations: maintain consistent communication with everyone in decision-process (i.e. the lab) especially with whom holds the highest rank (i.e. PI)...

Whenever you go and talk with the PI, bring your lab notebook. Talk to him about everything you've worked on. Bring him up to speed on everything, casually including/showing some work you did. Do this a couple of times before mentioning authorship.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Just talk to him about authorship. It's probably not that big of a deal. Him putting you as a second, third, etc. author would create no problem to him, so chances are he'll be okay with it.

 

[cloudysunshine]

I've seen a couple posts telling me not to worry about it if i'm only applying for MD, but I am actually aiming for MD/PhD. Hope this might put my concerns into a bit of perspective.