Figuring out program emphases, strengths, and elective options

[masterofmonkeys]

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Ok, sorry for the extremely vague title, but I couldn't think of any other way to phrase it.

The invites are starting to come in, and since I applied to 20 programs that caught my eye, I will not be able to interview at all of them. Even if I did, the fact remains that there are ways for them to conceal realities of training at these places.

I have been to the residency program websites, freida, and here, but if I have to pare down to sayyyy 8-10 interviews, I want to make sure they count, you know?

My priorities are (roughly in order of importance):

1. Psychotherapy training, particularly psychodynamics.
2. Neuroimaging research opportunities
3. Pediatrics instead of medicine during intern year.
4. Complementary therapy research (meditation, exercise, diet, etc.
5. Call schedule/workload

It's easy to find information on 3 and 5. But everyone claims to be committed to the biopsychosocial model and pscyhotherapy training. I know for a fact it's nothing but lip service at many programs.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I think we'd need a more specific list of programs at this point. Pick any random top 20 research program in the Northeast and about half of the ones on the west coast and they'd vaguely fit the bill.

But be careful about what you know about programs. You'll be surprised what happens when you actually go talk with residents and faculty. Find out what people are actually doing. Most big programs in the South and Midwest, even ones famous for not emphasizing dynamics, certainly will have a large menu of supervisors, and the chances of you genuinely not being able to find what you are looking for are pretty slim.

As for neuroimaging research, well, that's a pretty broad topic, and should be very easy to find in any reasonably sized academic department.

 

[Doc Samson]

I agree, it really is word of mouth so we'd need a list. I'll tell you upfront that programs that will give you rigorous psychodynamic psychotherapy training AND opportunity for neuroimaging research are few and far between outside of the big psychiatry cities (NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, LA). Plus the programs that will give you that kind of exposure tend to thrash you on criterion #5.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Ok, list time:

UCLA-Kern
UCSD
UCSF
University of Colorado
Yale
Emory
University of Chicago
Harvard (all of them)
Wash U St. Louis
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Brown
UT Southwestern
University of Washington

 

[whopper]

In terms of electives, not only should the specific program be investigated, but also the oppurtunities in the area.

E.g. Philadelphia

The Philadelphia area (and this also applies to NYC) is it is a rich educational area in terms of psychiatric education. If UPenn for example was deficient in an area of psychiatry, they could easily get someone else in the Philadelphia area to comment on a case or give a grand rounds. UPenn by the way has several top researchers and I'd doubt they'd have deficiencies in many areas (if any).

In Philly-Temple's dept head is one of the world's top authorities on Sports Psychiatry. Jefferson, Temple & Drexel are also nearby which have several noteworthy psychiatrists.

The Beck Institute for CBT is also right outside of Philly & hosts several teaching functions.

My own program was close to Philadelphia & as a result, we had plenty of grand rounds from professionals in the area. I was able to do an elective at the University Hospital at Princeton which has what is considered one of the best clinics for eating disorders in the country.

 

[billypilgrim37]

University Hospital at Princeton

I thought that only existed on House! 😱

 

[whopper]

The House hospital--Princeton Plainsboro-does not exist.

Though University Hospital is the closest to it. I guess they didn't make it UH because they didn't want the legal problems of mentioning a real place.

By the way, the UH is not part of Princeton U. PU doesn't have a medical school. Though I'm sure that the University Hospital of Princeton's name was intended to make it sound like its part of it. Heck anything with the worlds "Princeton" & "University" are going to make you think Princeton University which equates to big shot & intellectual.

UH is part of the UMDNJ state system and many of its functions are at a community level & not at a level you'd equate with a university hospital.
It being in Princeton though does attract some much higher than standard docs. E.g. one of the psychiatrists I knew there had only Ivy League schooling and graduated from MGH. The guy was a genius & developed a lot of teaching software for medstudents. He could've had a more prolifiic career, but chose to be an old country doc in Princeton because that's what he wanted. Some of the people on their ethics board are Princeton University professors in the humanities. You're going to see a lot of docs at that hospital that fit this higher than standard mold.

The Eating Disorder clinic there is quite good. The guy running the clinic-Russell Marx M.D. is a nationally recognized specialist in the field & an editor of several ED journals. He was a very nice guy & did some very good teaching while I was there. Patients from all over the country are referred to that clnic.

 

[Doc Samson]

Ok, list time:

UCLA-Kern
UCSD
UCSF
University of Colorado
Yale
Emory
University of Chicago
Harvard (all of them)
Wash U St. Louis
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Brown
UT Southwestern
University of Washington

The one program that's going to give you access to everything on your list is MGH/McLean - it now has the Benson-Henry Institute (fomerly the Mind-Body Institute), so you'll get the access to frontline research on meditation, relaxation response, etc. It does have a relatively tough call schedule.

I have an east coast bias, so I don't know all that much about the programs out west. But Columbia, Cornell, and Harvard Longwood would probably be the next "tier" based on your preferences, closely followed by Brown, Yale, and UCSF (all in no particular order)

After that, none of your other programs particularly stand out from each other, with the exception of WUSTL which in my experience places almost no emphasis on psychodynamic psychotherapy.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I propose we play a game.

In this game, the poster/player subtracts two names from this list they believe least match your criteria. Then, the player adds the name of one program not currently on the list (could have been previously on the list) they believe better meets your criteria than the two they removed. Other rules: each player can only play once per day.

The purpose of the first act is to help you narrow things down. The purpose of the second act is to make you anxious about programs you did not apply to 😉 (and maybe think about programs you might not have thought about). And because otherwise, the game will only last for about 5 players.

When the list is reduced to 10, you can only delete one program and add one program.

I will start by deleting University of Chicago (for generally being a lower tier program than the others) and Wash U (although I bet they have some dynamic supervisors stuffed somewhere in a closet that nobody has ever bothered to ask about), and stir the pot by adding Michigan (since it's a laid back program with good research opportunities and folks who aren't entirely disinterested in dynamics. And for geographic diversity, since I'm depleting your Midwestern stock).

UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
University of Colorado
Yale
Emory
MGH
Longwood
Cambridge
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Brown
UT Southwestern
University of Washington
Michigan

 

[Doc Samson]

I propose we play a game.

In this game, the poster/player subtracts two names from this list they believe least match your criteria. Then, the player adds the name of one program not currently on the list (could have been previously on the list) they believe better meets your criteria than the two they removed. Other rules: each player can only play once per day.

The purpose of the first act is to help you narrow things down. The purpose of the second act is to make you anxious about programs you did not apply to 😉 (and maybe think about programs you might not have thought about). And because otherwise, the game will only last for about 5 players.

When the list is reduced to 10, you can only delete one program and add one program.

I will start by deleting University of Chicago (for generally being a lower tier program than the others) and Wash U (although I bet they have some dynamic supervisors stuffed somewhere in a closet that nobody has ever bothered to ask about), and stir the pot by adding Michigan (since it's a laid back program with good research opportunities and folks who aren't entirely disinterested in dynamics. And for geographic diversity, since I'm depleting your Midwestern stock).

UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
University of Colorado
Yale
Emory
MGH
Longwood
Cambridge
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Brown
UT Southwestern
University of Washington
Michigan

Alrighty... goodbye Duke and Colorado (for having the least psychodynamic cred on the list) and hello NYU.

UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
Yale
Emory
MGH
Longwood
Cambridge
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Brown
UT Southwestern
University of Washington
Michigan
NYU

 

[masterofmonkeys]

ooh! this game looks fun! And terrible at the same time. Thanks for helping me out guys.