Does anyone have any tips on the most efficient way to find all pathology groups in a city or region? It seems many groups have obscure names and are difficut to find unless you are already aware of their existence. I am scouting out cities to get an idea of how many groups do business in communities of varying sizes.
Finding Path groups in a particular city
- Thread starter btlwhulka
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Well, I dunno about efficient, but it might be easier to find the large hospitals or large surgery groups in those areas and ask them rather than tracking down the path groups directly. It'd be great if there was a central database of contact information for such places, like, I dunno...a phone book...but I figure you're asking because those kinds of searches are failing. (Possibly because those areas are being served by a group which isn't based in the area of search, like most of the uberlabs.) It's also true that many labs, especially smaller ones, don't yet market to patients but to the ordering physicians/surgeons, so -are- hard to find.
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For one, do NOT cold call groups.
This is bad and reeks of desperation. Im getting alot of cold calls recently, alot.
The best source for a trainee is the faculty. They should be able to outline 80%+ or so of groups in a defined geographic area. Its a bit harder say in huge states like Texas and California where there are dozens and dozens of small hospitals with unknown mysterio-type pathologists hiding out, but have the faculty make a formal introduction to a group and then query them for what other small groups exist on the fringes.
This is bad and reeks of desperation. Im getting alot of cold calls recently, alot.
The best source for a trainee is the faculty. They should be able to outline 80%+ or so of groups in a defined geographic area. Its a bit harder say in huge states like Texas and California where there are dozens and dozens of small hospitals with unknown mysterio-type pathologists hiding out, but have the faculty make a formal introduction to a group and then query them for what other small groups exist on the fringes.
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I respectfully disagree. You are right that it reeks of desperation, however, we are talking about the pathology job market for new graduates here. Desperation goes with the territory.
For many residents, this is the primary (maybe the only?) way to contact groups and find out about jobs. While counting on the connections of faculty members is definitely helpful (and probably the easiest way to get a job) by and large, relatively few faculty are well connected enough to cold call enough groups for you to generate multiple good opportunities. Not everyone is training with Epstein at JHU (etc, etc) that can call a practice out of the blue to suggest a resident for a job that may or may not exist.
Residents - you are on your own here. Make your own luck. Leave no stone unturned. If you wind up without a job don't have it be because you didn't really look hard enough and/or were too shy to call a practice. If you don't cold call and wind up without a job, then you've no one else to blame but you know who.
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Huh? Follow me here:
1.) talk to faculty, find out which groups are "normal" and which are the salt mines
2.) call said group with the introduction that you were referred from Dr. So and so (likely some left wing academic at your training program with a passing connection to private practice..)
3.) invite one of the private practice types to coffee, nothing fancy, drive to them on a day off, be respectful, ask ?s
4.) Profit
dont just call and say "Im random no name pathologist, gimme job".
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Oh. So you are saying to call them yourself but say that an attending in your program referred you. I was under the impression that you were suggesting that they needed to get an attending to call the group for them and sell the group on hiring them.
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I would assume someone who is asking on an internet discussion board how to find what group(s) cover a certain unspecified area is doing so because their existing contacts (i.e., resident/fellow faculty) don't know either. If one hasn't bothered to ask within their own program, I doubt we can really be of much help to the overall package.
While it may be that some people underestimate the connections within their own program or other existing pathology related contacts, it's also quite possible said faculty don't already know someone who knows someone in their particular limited region(s) of interest - in which case you still have to start somewhere.
Then again, finding a job may not have anything to do with the OP's question. Jobs just seem to be a common underlying theme to most questions these days. If that's the case, and the OP is just looking at numbers for some reason, someone with administrative &/or marketing experience specifically with pathology would probably be able to provide some population-related statistics which might answer the question without all this hullaballoo.
While it may be that some people underestimate the connections within their own program or other existing pathology related contacts, it's also quite possible said faculty don't already know someone who knows someone in their particular limited region(s) of interest - in which case you still have to start somewhere.
Then again, finding a job may not have anything to do with the OP's question. Jobs just seem to be a common underlying theme to most questions these days. If that's the case, and the OP is just looking at numbers for some reason, someone with administrative &/or marketing experience specifically with pathology would probably be able to provide some population-related statistics which might answer the question without all this hullaballoo.
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I don't like cold calls either, although I am usually not the one in our group who gets called. I am more in favor of "informed" calls, where you are introduced to the group by someone who you both know, and then you chat.
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Hiring someone, potential partner or not, is a real relationship. Imagine if you cold called people and asked "Will you be my BF?" Wha? no, click.
Groups need to feel special to hire, not another rapid dial from the residents' break room. Use common sense.
Thanks for the posts--good information that hasn't necessarily been touched upon in great detail in other job related posts. My faculty know of groups in the immediate area but I haven't been able to get info about smaller cities in the state that have several groups in operation. So I was trying to find a more complete list of active groups so I can do a little research on the company, etc in order to sound informed about the marketplace if I ever get my foot in the door. I suppose a good source is the state path society, but is it proper etiquette to call them up and ask for a complete list of path groups in the state? I don't want to burn any bridges in this tough market.
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State path societies usually compile names of individual pathologists not neccessarily every group name. But IMO that is all you need to begin.
Heck, do what I did, go to meetings and just start chatting people up at random. Buy em a few drinks, soak up the info.
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This is kind of like selling vacuum cleaners by mass marketing. How many calls do you need to make to get 1 hit. Then figure out how many hits you need to get to get an offer. Then how many offers you need to get to get a good job.
If you believe the rumors about the pathology job market then you need a high number of initial calls in order to generate enough opportunities to trickle down to enough offers. If you have an attending that will make 4, 5 or 6 cold calls to groups for you then kudos. I would think that most residents at most programs do not have this luxury.
If you believe the rumors about the pathology job market then you need a high number of initial calls in order to generate enough opportunities to trickle down to enough offers. If you have an attending that will make 4, 5 or 6 cold calls to groups for you then kudos. I would think that most residents at most programs do not have this luxury.
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I started with faculty and called a couple people at their suggestion using the faculty member's name as an intro. All were happy to speak with me. Then if they had nothing, I asked if they knew anyone else I might check with. I then called these folks using the previous person as an intro. At the end of each conversation I also asked if I might have the person's email address to send them my CV should anything pop up. All have obliged. By this time I think everyone in my area has my CV. I will wait a few months and send them all a quick follow-up email and updated CV, and let them know I am still available.
I was told by one person that due to the economy and potential changes in healthcare, if I find job I should consider myself lucky. For the record, my training is solid and no one has a bad word to say about me. I think it's just a tough time right now to find a job. Other people I know are experiencing similar difficulties. I'm really hoping things turn around soon.
I was told by one person that due to the economy and potential changes in healthcare, if I find job I should consider myself lucky. For the record, my training is solid and no one has a bad word to say about me. I think it's just a tough time right now to find a job. Other people I know are experiencing similar difficulties. I'm really hoping things turn around soon.
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Sorry to hear things are so challenging. I think that you're approach is a good one. I hope things work out for you.
"... if I find a job I should consider myself lucky". Wow, that is a rough perspective. I feel very fortunate to have the opportunities that I have.
As a side note, I think this thread is a good one for potential residency applicants to consider. We always hear questions like "Should I go to a big name program or my local program". Well, the answer is that connections trump everything. Attendings at big name programs are more likely to have connections (usually) but there are certainly attendings at local programs who have connections as well. The problem is that there is little way to find out this information as a potential residency applicant because no one will be completely straightforward with you, particularly if you are a strong candidate. After being on the inside of residency applicant recruiting for a few years, I can tell you this: their job is to sell you their program. This is a coordinated and premeditated effort at most programs. There are meetings to discuss recruiting and at some programs there are even "talking points" issued out to help sell the good candidates. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are lying or anything like that, but there is definitely spin no doubt. No attending is going to tell you "No I don't have connections" or "No our residents don't get good jobs". Likewise, no residents are going to tell you "Our program isn't good and we don't get jobs". You get the idea.
As a residency applicant you've got to read between the lines. Get the facts on where their graduates are and whether or not they are doing multiple fellowships. Don't settle for generic answers on this topic. Any chief resident or senior resident should be able to quote you exactly where their last few classes of recent graduates are and what they are doing now. If they can't/won't that is a HUGE red flag.
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I actually agree about the recruiting points, and that programs generally go out of their way to sell themselves to applicants as much or more than applicants try to sell themselves to programs. However, when I was interviewing I made a point to ask about any negative rumblings I gathered during my investigations of places, and I did get a senior/chief resident at 2 different institutions to meander out of the department long enough to spill the beans -- significantly in one case, not as much in another. Residents who are literally walking out the door and won't be around when you arrive, in my experience on both sides of the process, are more likely to give you the real story. Not always..just, more likely. You're also less likely to ever see them when you interview.
Didn't the AMA used to put out a book listing all of the docs, by state and speciality. As I remember, one edition was four volumes long. Although it would probably be electronic by now, you could use that to canvas all the pathologists in your target state.
http://www.marketingpower.com/_layouts/MemberDirectory.aspx
CAP puts out a membership directory, too.
Call the hospital first to find out who the department head is.
You could do a nice soft sell approach--walk in, say hello, make small talk, and hand deliver your cv. Ask gently if they know if anyone is hiring and move on.
http://www.marketingpower.com/_layouts/MemberDirectory.aspx
CAP puts out a membership directory, too.
Call the hospital first to find out who the department head is.
You could do a nice soft sell approach--walk in, say hello, make small talk, and hand deliver your cv. Ask gently if they know if anyone is hiring and move on.
