For fellow first year MD/PhD students

[reine1jb]

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While the first year class load is keeping me sufficiently busy, i find myself every so often missing working in the laboratory.

I just remember in undergrad working in lab alot and doing coursework cocurrently. This is obviously not feasible in medical school but it doesn't keep me from thinking about it from time to time.

is this some sort of biochemistry induced psychosis or is anyone else feeling this way?

 

[Neuronix]

I wouldn't say it's not feasible to be in the lab right now. Working in med school and in the lab are possible depending on your circumstances. It's a fairly common phenomenon among MD/PhD students. I took at least one grad school class each semester during the basic science cirriculum of med school, and I even took two a semester one time. I never felt overwhelmed during this time.

If you don't yet have a lab, you could always start looking for a rotation for next summer. Once you've found it, just tell the PI you really want to do some work and get ready for your rotation. Most PIs would love you for that.

That being said, given the increasing emphasis on medical school performance for competitive residencies, I'm hesitant to say to just coast through your first two years of med school like I did. The mentality at our program used to be "You're MD/PhD you'll get a great residency no matter what." This is no longer the case. So do things at your own risk and comfort level.

 

[reine1jb]

Thanks for the reply neuronix. I think I'll ask around to see what some of the older students have done at my institution. A couple of students have worked in lab while in medical school but I believe the students that did it are students who already found a lab (which I have not).

It's nice to hear that it isn't as rare as I initially thought. I'll take your advice and see how I do in my biochemistry core and then evaluate whether or not I think I could handle doing lab work during the second part of first year.

I wouldn't say it's not feasible to be in the lab right now. Working in med school and in the lab are possible depending on your circumstances. It's a fairly common phenomenon among MD/PhD students. I took at least one grad school class each semester during the basic science cirriculum of med school, and I even took two a semester one time. I never felt overwhelmed during this time.

If you don't yet have a lab, you could always start looking for a rotation for next summer. Once you've found it, just tell the PI you really want to do some work and get ready for your rotation. Most PIs would love you for that.

That being said, given the increasing emphasis on medical school performance for competitive residencies, I'm hesitant to say to just coast through your first two years of med school like I did. The mentality at our program used to be "You're MD/PhD you'll get a great residency no matter what." This is no longer the case. So do things at your own risk and comfort level.

 

[fairalexfield]

I'm not sure it's feasible or useful for that matter. The amount of work here is pretty sporadic, some sequences are really easy (biochem/cell bio, genetics), but others are just crazy, like musculoskeletal....which is happening right now......someone shoot me (I just spent 5 hours dissecting the feet + lateral and anterior leg compartments)........

I really need consistent effort to do something meaningful in the lab so it's not like I'd be able to get much done. I guess you could get your foot in the door and make a good impression. However, our director stresses that it won't help you graduate any earlier, but if you really miss it and it's something you enjoy, then you should go for it.

For me, I'd rather spend my spare time grabbing a drink with friends than slaving in the lab 😀

 

[bd4727]

I don't really see the point of working in the lab during the first 2 years. You won't get anything productive done. You are (presumably) going to have a lab-based career for the rest of your life. Taking 2 years off from lab work to focus on building up your knowledge base is much more beneficial than getting a minimal amount of work done, IMO. If you hate med school that much and can only be happy in the lab, why did you pursue MD/PhD in the first place?

 

[reine1jb]

I don't really see the point of working in the lab during the first 2 years. You won't get anything productive done. You are (presumably) going to have a lab-based career for the rest of your life. Taking 2 years off from lab work to focus on building up your knowledge base is much more beneficial than getting a minimal amount of work done, IMO. If you hate med school that much and can only be happy in the lab, why did you pursue MD/PhD in the first place?

I should have clarified this when I first posted. I don't want to get back into lab because I hate medical school and i'm not unhappy right now. In fact I have enjoyed the first couple months of medical school, especially the times that I have been in the clinic. I don't think i need to defend my reasons for pursuing the duel degree, however, I did come into the program with the mindset I would be the typical 80% research/ 20% clinical type. Whether this holds true or not over an 8 year period remains to be seen 🙂

It just feels weird to me not working in lab. I worked in a lab for three years in undergrad, spent two summers doing full time research. This is the first time in a while that I haven't been involved in bench research.

You make a good point though, about solely dedicating medical school time to medical school stuff and leaving the lab work for its time. It's exactly the reason why I haven't actively pursued doing lab work, I'm really just curious to see if any first years (or any older students) have similar feelings...

 

[reine1jb]

I'm not sure it's feasible or useful for that matter. The amount of work here is pretty sporadic, some sequences are really easy (biochem/cell bio, genetics), but others are just crazy, like musculoskeletal....which is happening right now......someone shoot me (I just spent 5 hours dissecting the feet + lateral and anterior leg compartments)........

I really need consistent effort to do something meaningful in the lab so it's not like I'd be able to get much done. I guess you could get your foot in the door and make a good impression. However, our director stresses that it won't help you graduate any earlier, but if you really miss it and it's something you enjoy, then you should go for it.

For me, I'd rather spend my spare time grabbing a drink with friends than slaving in the lab 😀

I understand what you're saying, we finished our 10 week anatomy core on halloween and there is no way I could have worked in lab during that but now we're doing biochem/cellbio/genetics and after christmas we have physiology, which certainly aren't easy topics but all subjects that I had advanced classes in undergrad so I at least have a foundation (however little that may be).

I know it won't help me graduate any earlier and that's not my intention. I guess from what several of you have said it probably would be a waste of time. I guess we'll see what happens, my rationale behind even thinking about it in the first place was the following:
1) learn a little bit about the lab i am rotating in first next summer, which might decrease the amount of time spent early on in the rotation that is typically wasted because you have no idea where anything is in the lab, how the lab operates, what experiments to do with your project, ect
2) keep the basic science mind frame relatively sharp (rationale for doing certain experiments, interpreting data, ect) not that this is something you would lose over a year or two, just a minor reason really
3) I honestly enjoy doing experiments...I know how that sounds but it's just the way i feel....

alas I'm sure this is a feeling that will go away eventually but as i've said in other posts, i'm really just curious to see if any others have had these feelings? I guess from the sounds of it, not many?

 

[fairalexfield]

we finished our 10 week anatomy core on halloween and there is no way I could have worked in lab during that but now

I couldn't imagine doing all of anatomy at once 😱 !!!

They split ours up so we do the heart/mediastinum during our cardiorespiratory sequence, kidneys during renal, etc. So we end up having maybe one dissection a week or every other week for the whole year, but musculoskeletal is ALL dissection, so we have like 3 a week, and that's tough enough as it is!!! I'm dead tired after 20 hours of dissection time in a week and I couldn't imagine doing that for 10 whole weeks

 

[reine1jb]

so how is your first year curriculum set up? For ours we have four cores which are:

human structure and development (anatomy and embryo)
cellular processes (biochem, cell bio, genetics, histo)
physiology
neuro

I'm pretty sure our histo class continues into the third and fourth core...

Our anatomy class was set up in such a way that the first two weeks we did upper limb and chest. Next three weeks we did head and neck. The next three weeks after that were thorax and abdomen. The last two were lower limb and pelvis.....

I'm not really sure why our school does it that way (i'm sure a lot of other schools do it too) but you're right by the end of the 10 weeks you're just exhausted. Then you get to core 2 and you're like "oh man this is the life" until a couple weeks in you realize how boring it is to sit in lecture all day

I couldn't imagine doing all of anatomy at once 😱 !!!

They split ours up so we do the heart/mediastinum during our cardiorespiratory sequence, kidneys during renal, etc. So we end up having maybe one dissection a week or every other week for the whole year, but musculoskeletal is ALL dissection, so we have like 3 a week, and that's tough enough as it is!!! I'm dead tired after 20 hours of dissection time in a week and I couldn't imagine doing that for 10 whole weeks

 

[solitude]

I don't really see the point of working in the lab during the first 2 years. You won't get anything productive done. You are (presumably) going to have a lab-based career for the rest of your life. Taking 2 years off from lab work to focus on building up your knowledge base is much more beneficial than getting a minimal amount of work done, IMO. If you hate med school that much and can only be happy in the lab, why did you pursue MD/PhD in the first place?

agree. If you have some free time, that is OK--enjoy it! Read books, get fit, date, explore your new city, go to seminars, make new friends, catch up with old ones, etc etc.

 

[URHere]

I wouldn't completely rule out working in a lab during MS1/MS2. I have spent all of my MS2 year thus far working in what will most likely be my thesis lab. I spend about 25-30 hours/week there, and I am getting a substantial amount of work done. Granted, my school's schedule includes three fully free afternoons each week, so those days (combined with weekends) give me the time I need. Because I am doing so much work now, I am planning to submit my NRSA ahead of schedule, and hopefully finish my PhD years more quickly.

Granted, not all schools have curriculums that allow for this, and it isn't always a fun way to spend your weekend time. But, personally, I enjoy the mix of med school and lab far more than I enjoyed med school and clinic alone. It might be a good option for you, so I wouldn't write it off entirely.

 

[bd4727]

I wouldn't completely rule out working in a lab during MS1/MS2. I have spent all of my MS2 year thus far working in what will most likely be my thesis lab. I spend about 25-30 hours/week there, and I am getting a substantial amount of work done. Granted, my school's schedule includes three fully free afternoons each week, so those days (combined with weekends) give me the time I need. Because I am doing so much work now, I am planning to submit my NRSA ahead of schedule, and hopefully finish my PhD years more quickly.

Granted, not all schools have curriculums that allow for this, and it isn't always a fun way to spend your weekend time. But, personally, I enjoy the mix of med school and lab far more than I enjoyed med school and clinic alone. It might be a good option for you, so I wouldn't write it off entirely.

Well if you can do really well in classes without using those 3 afternoons per week to study, then more power to you. That is something that is very hard to do.

 

[reine1jb]

I wouldn't completely rule out working in a lab during MS1/MS2. I have spent all of my MS2 year thus far working in what will most likely be my thesis lab. I spend about 25-30 hours/week there, and I am getting a substantial amount of work done. Granted, my school's schedule includes three fully free afternoons each week, so those days (combined with weekends) give me the time I need. Because I am doing so much work now, I am planning to submit my NRSA ahead of schedule, and hopefully finish my PhD years more quickly.

Granted, not all schools have curriculums that allow for this, and it isn't always a fun way to spend your weekend time. But, personally, I enjoy the mix of med school and lab far more than I enjoyed med school and clinic alone. It might be a good option for you, so I wouldn't write it off entirely.

We also have a couple of free afternoons a week, usually one of those is dedicated to what my school deems longitudinal clinical experience (basically shadowing a PCP) but I could see how the way you are doing it would be feasible. I imagined that if i were to pursue lab work during medical school it would be during those afternoons I have free and on the weekends...

Would you recommend for someone who doesn't have a thesis lab yet?

 

[URHere]

Would you recommend for someone who doesn't have a thesis lab yet?

Well, you have to start somewhere eventually...so, if you have the time and the motivation, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't just dive into your first research rotation. That being said, there are a few challenges when it comes to juggling lab work and med school. If you are going to try it, I would suggest either finding a lab that uses techniques you are familiar with, or making 100% sure that your lab schedule will overlap with the schedules of the people who will be initially training you. Initially, you will need training and it will be a stretch to fit that in with your confined schedule without wasting a ton of time. Don't make it any harder than it has to be.

If you are still on the fence about rotating/working in lab during MS1, you could always just rotate over the summer, find a lab you like, and then continue working there during MS2 year. In that scenario, you already have the much of the basic training out of the way, and it's easier to mold your project into your schedule.

 

[reine1jb]

I like the sound of this plan! thanks for your advice...