For surgery

[Iamnumber24]

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Hi guys, I really want to be a general surgeon but my science and undergrad gpa is going to be extremely low. I project after completing undergrad and doing 1 year of taking extra courses i will have a science gpa of about 2.5-2.8 and overall 3.2-3.3.

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american.

All that being said if u were in my shoes what would you do to become a general surgeon? would you (A) go to DO school OR (B) go to SGU in the carribean OR (C) keep taking more courses even if it takes 2-3 more years and get into a US MD school

Also what are your thoughts on a DO surgeon? alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

 

[Iamnumber24]

Hi guys, I really want to be a general surgeon but my science and undergrad gpa is going to be extremely low. I project after completing undergrad and doing 1 year of taking extra courses i will have a science gpa of about 2.5-2.8 and overall 3.2-3.3. but if I apply DO and get some of my grades replaced then my science will be about 3.1 and overall 3.4-3.5.

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american. So lately I've been looking into DO and I really would do it if I got the chance.

All that being said if u were in my shoes what would you do to become a general surgeon? would you (A) go to DO school OR (B) go to SGU in the carribean OR (C) keep taking more courses even if it takes 2-3 more years and get into a US MD school

Also what are your thoughts on a DO surgeon? alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

 

[circulus vitios]

alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

What would being black have to do with anything? This isn't the 1950s. And DO surgeons are as capable as MD surgeons.



I'd go for US DO schools, then Caribbean as a last resort.

 

[halekulani]

I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american.

i think it'll be tough because you have bad stats.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hi guys, I really want to be a general surgeon but my science and undergrad gpa is going to be extremely low. I project after completing undergrad and doing 1 year of taking extra courses i will have a science gpa of about 2.5-2.8 and overall 3.2-3.3.

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american.

All that being said if u were in my shoes what would you do to become a general surgeon? would you (A) go to DO school OR (B) go to SGU in the carribean OR (C) keep taking more courses even if it takes 2-3 more years and get into a US MD school

Also what are your thoughts on a DO surgeon? alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

your friends probably dont know what a DO is..
general surgery isnt a hard residency to land as a DO.. however your gpa sucks..
however being a urm you will likely be able to land into a DO program as long as you got a good mcat 28+
also redo all your science classes, boom
you'll land into DO no problem..
however you better have kick ass ec's

btw.. surgeons work in hospitals and clinics.. they DO NOT OWN or operate their clinics...
however if you become a plasitic surgeon or ENT surgeon or neurosurgeon or cardiac surgeon you will be able to own your own clinic..

so in terms of job security for you.. very good ..

 

[JaggerPlate]

Hi guys, I really want to be a general surgeon but my science and undergrad gpa is going to be extremely low. I project after completing undergrad and doing 1 year of taking extra courses i will have a science gpa of about 2.5-2.8 and overall 3.2-3.3. but if I apply DO and get some of my grades replaced then my science will be about 3.1 and overall 3.4-3.5.

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american. So lately I've been looking into DO and I really would do it if I got the chance.

All that being said if u were in my shoes what would you do to become a general surgeon? would you (A) go to DO school OR (B) go to SGU in the carribean OR (C) keep taking more courses even if it takes 2-3 more years and get into a US MD school

Also what are your thoughts on a DO surgeon? alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

1. a 3.4/3.5 overall is sufficient and combined with a good MCAT score (try to break 30), nice ECs, and an upward trend (and replacing bad grades with good ones), you should have no problem getting into a well established DO school.

2. I'm not trying to sound obtuse here, and please correct me if I am, but your African American ancestry actually allows you to apply to medical schools as an 'Under Represented Minority' (IE Afro Americans are underrepresented as a racial population in US medical schools), so this factor will not hinder your application.

3. I think it's almost universally accepted that going to a DO school presents more opportunities than attending a Caribbean medical school (even one with a strong reputation like SGU). This theory is only amplified when trying to land a residency in something like G-Surgery.

4. DOs are well represented in general surgery. Osteopathic medical students are able to apply exclusively to a set of residencies funded by the American Osteopathic Association, and among these sponsored residencies are spots for general surgery:

http://opportunities.osteopathic.org

DOs are also eligible to apply to ACGME (MD) sponsored residencies, and generally match fairly well into ACGME G-Surgery. It is going to be more competitive for a DO to match MD surgery, but G-Surgery is probably the last competitive, with regards to surgical sub-specialties (ie ENT, Ortho, Plastics), and you should be okay.

5. My thoughts on DO general surgeons is that they do just fine. I really don't think you should have any issues with employment (though salaries tend to be slightly lower in densely populated cities such as New York), and I definitely don't think your race will have anything to do with it. Good luck. Feel free to ask anymore questions, and keep working hard.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What would being black have to do with anything? This isn't the 1950s. And DO surgeons are as capable as MD surgeons.



I'd go for US DO schools, then Caribbean as a last resort.

because when people think of a urm like a black person trained in america they automatically think they got in due to political correctness...

but yes..
he's a urm.. meaning he will be able to get into a DO program even with his significantly lower stats.. though i would recommend raising the science gpa by retaking.. then he'll land a good DO or lower tier MD with 28+ mcat

 

[raginfly]

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american.

Are you saying it's harder to get into medical school because you're an African American? I always thought the opposite was true.

Sorry, I don't know any of the answers to your questions... I personally would not mind a surgeon that has a DO degree or if he's African American or not... Lol

 

[JJMrK]

your friends probably dont know what a DO is..
general surgery isnt a hard residency to land as a DO.. however your gpa sucks..
however being a urm you will likely be able to land into a DO program as long as you got a good mcat 28+
also redo all your science classes, boom
you'll land into DO no problem..
however you better have kick ass ec's

btw.. surgeons work in hospitals and clinics.. they DO NOT OWN or operate their clinics...
however if you become a plasitic surgeon or ENT surgeon or neurosurgeon or cardiac surgeon you will be able to own your own clinic..

so in terms of job security for you.. very good ..

You really think a general surgeon can't own a practice? Where did you come up with this?

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Hi guys, I really want to be a general surgeon but my science and undergrad gpa is going to be extremely low. I project after completing undergrad and doing 1 year of taking extra courses i will have a science gpa of about 2.5-2.8 and overall 3.2-3.3. but if I apply DO and get some of my grades replaced then my science will be about 3.1 and overall 3.4-3.5.

So with these numbers and some extracurriculars, volunteer work, and etc I think it will be tough for me to get into a U.S MD school considering that I'm an african-american. So lately I've been looking into DO and I really would do it if I got the chance.

All that being said if u were in my shoes what would you do to become a general surgeon? would you (A) go to DO school OR (B) go to SGU in the carribean OR (C) keep taking more courses even if it takes 2-3 more years and get into a US MD school

Also what are your thoughts on a DO surgeon? alot of my friends have said that in nyc there are not many DO surgeons and that being an african-american with a DO in surgery it would be hard to find many patients.

Jagger said it better 🙂

Check out the Surgery forum for perspectives from DO surgeons.

I'm also an AA who is planning on going into surgery as a DO (granted if I can get accepted). I know there are a could of African American DOs that whole prominent positions in the DO community, but I'm not sure if any are surgeons.

Here's two:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]William G. Anderson, D.O
.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Barbara Ross-Lee, D.O..

 

[bannie22]

so random... kidddd improve your gpa. and go into med school! when ure in med school. they dont care about your ug gpa anymore... =)

so get in first!

 

[JaggerPlate]

OP, you can't make 'cross-post threads' (ie identical threads in the pre-MD and pre-DO forums). Can a mod merge the two and leave it somewhere??

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You really think a general surgeon can't own a practice? Where did you come up with this?

well what would a surgeon do.. he's a jack of all surgery.. not someone you can be refered to..
i mean the might be able to own a clinic..
but they work primarily in hospitals

 

[RitaHayworth]

I think that regardless of your race, your grades, like any applicant will be what hold you back. And you getting a surgery residency is contingent on your record in med school/rotations, not on your undergraduate grades. Replace your low science scores, get an excellent MCAT and apply. Unfortunately, AMCAS (allopathic application service) does not repeat grades, which will give you a lower gpa, even if you do replace your grades. AACOMAS is more forgiving as they allow you to replace your best grade for a class.

I think that being African-American can be a benefit in some situations I guess. But, you should be proud that you are wanting to be a doctor and desiring to become a general surgeon. Just improve your grades and you'll be set. I'm only applying DO so I'm perhaps biased. A doctor is a doctor. I do believe that med schools outside the US can be problematic from what I've heard.

 

[MN premed]

2. I'm not trying to sound obtuse here, and please correct me if I am, but your African American ancestry actually allows you to apply to medical schools as an 'Under Represented Minority' (IE Afro Americans are underrepresented as a racial population in US medical schools), so this factor will not hinder your application.

I think I would actually go as far to say that being African American and being able to apply as an URM would actually improve your chances of getting accepted. I wouldn't say this is fair, but it seems to be true, and I definitely agree that it won't hinder your application in any way.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

well what would a surgeon do.. he's a jack of all surgery.. not someone you can be refered to..

umm...no. You really don't know what you are talking about. Many, many, many patients get referred to general surgeons.

The majority of general surgeons are private practice with admitting and OR privileges at one or more hospitals. To say that a general surgeon can't "own or operate" a clinic but a surgical subspecialist can is way off.

 

[jvesco22]

OP, you can't make 'cross-post threads' (ie identical threads in the pre-MD and pre-DO forums). Can a mod merge the two and leave it somewhere??

lol, really?...

 

[MedMan25]

well what would a surgeon do.. he's a jack of all surgery.. not someone you can be refered to..
i mean the might be able to own a clinic..
but they work primarily in hospitals

Lots of general surgeons are in private practice. Open up a phone book if you don't believe it. To the OP, focus on getting into med school first. Take the MCAT, do well, and apply to a lot of schools. If you want to do surgery, you need to prioritize in this order: US MD > US DO > Carib MD

 

[elektroshok]

umm...no. You really don't know what you are talking about. Many, many, many patients get referred to general surgeons.

The majority of general surgeons are private practice with admitting and OR privileges at one or more hospitals. To say that a general surgeon can't "own or operate" a clinic but a surgical subspecialist can is way off.

By his logic:

no one refers to FPs, therefore FPs can't own their own practices....

fail

 

[JJMrK]

well what would a surgeon do.. he's a jack of all surgery.. not someone you can be refered to..
i mean the might be able to own a clinic..
but they work primarily in hospitals

Yes, you'd be referred to a general surgeon, say if you went to your PCP with a hernia. AFAIK, general surgery isn't "jack of all surgery", it's surgical treatment of abdominal organs/the torso.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I think I would actually go as far to say that being African American and being able to apply as an URM would actually improve your chances of getting accepted. I wouldn't say this is fair, but it seems to be true, and I definitely agree that it won't hinder your application in any way.

Yeah, it's difficult to simply make blanket claims like this, but the URM status is taken into consideration, otherwise AMCAS/AACOMAS wouldn't have an option to indicate this status.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

i stand corrected then lol..

 

[rockymhs]

Being an African-American has nothing to do with your chance of getting into med school.

In fact you have a better chance than your counterparts of different ethnic backgrounds due to your URM status.

It is your stats that is getting in the way of you getting into a med school.

You need to improve your GPA fast and commit your time into studying MCAT and ECs.

 

[Mackey]

Being African American actually gives you an advantage:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table19-mcatpgaraceeth09-web.pdf

So keep trucking. You're under-represented, and thats a good thing for you.

DO would be a good choice over a Caribbean school.

I think whoever babbled nonsense about surgeons solely practicing in hospitals has been corrected.

In the end, you'll change your mind about what you want to be several times over the course of medical school, so do not shoot for this just to be X or Y.

 

[MN premed]

Yeah, it's difficult to simply make blanket claims like this, but the URM status is taken into consideration, otherwise AMCAS/AACOMAS wouldn't have an option to indicate this status.

That's true, I'm sure it depends on the individual school and individual applicant. But overall it does seem to make a difference...

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm (Hispanic, Black, and American Indian)

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-w-mcatgpagridwhite.pdf (White)

In the first chart, my gpa/mcat combination shows a 91.2% acceptance rate, while in the second chart, it shows a 76.0% acceptance rate. Actually, in the first chart, my gpa with an mcat of 24-26 still is 10% higher than in the 2nd chart with a 27-29. I'm sure a lot of other factors come in to play, but still.

Edit:

Actually, looking again, the difference is even more significant with African Americans alone.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-b-mcatgpagridblack.pdf

 

[ButterKnife]

I wonder why people with lower GPAs talk about applying to, and getting into, a Caribbean as if it's a certain thing.

 

[Hurricane95]

well what would a surgeon do.. he's a jack of all surgery.. not someone you can be refered to..
i mean the might be able to own a clinic..
but they work primarily in hospitals

Many general surgeons do private practice, either solo or group. They have operating privileges at XYZ hospital where they do their cases, but where do you think they do clinic and see patients pre and post-op?

 

[Octagonecology]

Keep in mind that getting in is only part of the battle.

You have to succeed when you get there.

 

[link2swim06]

I wonder why people with lower GPAs talk about applying to, and getting into, a Caribbean as if it's a certain thing.

My understand was the lower tier carribeans will basically take you if you have the money.

 

[123165]

My understand was the lower tier carribeans will basically take you if you have the money.

This is what I thought, too.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just to beat an already dead horse but to clarify some misconceptions:

- the majority of American general surgeons are in private practice and are not employees of hospitals/medical centers; we are self-employed and as such, "own" our "clinics" and sometimes even the building and ambulatory surgery centers

- we are considered specialists and as such, depend on referrals and consults, whether from primary care physicians, EDs, or other specialists

- most surgeons spend a considerable amount of time in the office/"clinic" seeing patients; despite the patient who occasionally shows up at my office thinking he's getting his surgery today, everyone needs a pre-op consultation (sometimes more than 1), post-op visit, follow-up etc.

- general surgeons do more than just abdomen/torso - in many communities they are also doing vascular, endocrine, all skin and soft tissue, critical care, etc.

- general surgery is not considered an easy match as a DO because there are, unfortunately, some allopathic residency programs that will not/have not taken a DO, so it reduces the number of programs you can apply to

 

[Ativanigans]

Yes, you'd be referred to a general surgeon, say if you went to your PCP with a hernia. AFAIK, general surgery isn't "jack of all surgery", it's surgical treatment of abdominal organs/the torso.

Depends on the community you practice in. If you're on Podunk nowhere, you're probably doing a ton of procedures. If you're in a major city, you're probably doing some variation of 3-5 procedures.

On a less related note: I think it's kind of interesting that a ton of premeds and ms1's want to do surgery but this number drops off precipitously after a few years. It's kind of like the "I'm premed" of medical school. When someone says it, just roll your eyes until it's at least the 3rd year.

 

[Viera]

Many general surgeons do private practice, either solo or group. They have operating privileges at XYZ hospital where they do their cases, but where do you think they do clinic and see patients pre and post-op?

You're absolutely right. I work at a private surgical practice with 5 trauma surgeons.

 

[Viera]

Depends on the community you practice in. If you're on Podunk nowhere, you're probably doing a ton of procedures. If you're in a major city, you're probably doing some variation of 3-5 procedures.

On a less related note: I think it's kind of interesting that a ton of premeds and ms1's want to do surgery but this number drops off precipitously after a few years. It's kind of like the "I'm premed" of medical school. When someone says it, just roll your eyes until it's at least the 3rd year.

I know a doctor that wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon when he was in UG, and his first two years in med school. He ended up becoming an anesthesiologist. Surgery is an incredible field, but a lot of people pursuing medicine just don't know how rigorous the path to becoming a surgeon is and their lifestyle.

 

[JJMrK]

Just to beat an already dead horse but to clarify some misconceptions:

- the majority of American general surgeons are in private practice and are not employees of hospitals/medical centers; we are self-employed and as such, "own" our "clinics" and sometimes even the building and ambulatory surgery centers

- we are considered specialists and as such, depend on referrals and consults, whether from primary care physicians, EDs, or other specialists

- most surgeons spend a considerable amount of time in the office/"clinic" seeing patients; despite the patient who occasionally shows up at my office thinking he's getting his surgery today, everyone needs a pre-op consultation (sometimes more than 1), post-op visit, follow-up etc.

- general surgeons do more than just abdomen/torso - in many communities they are also doing vascular, endocrine, all skin and soft tissue, critical care, etc.

- general surgery is not considered an easy match as a DO because there are, unfortunately, some allopathic residency programs that will not/have not taken a DO, so it reduces the number of programs you can apply to

I was hoping you'd see this thread, WS. Thanks for the post.

 

[UBCvan]

What would being black have to do with anything? This isn't the 1950s. And DO surgeons are as capable as MD surgeons.



I'd go for US DO schools, then Caribbean as a last resort.

God that made me laugh so harddddddddddd