For those that think physician career is a bad idea

[xmsr3]

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I have read many threads bashing medicine including one by a guy who graduated Ivy leage and who apperently had hedge funds courting him. Here are two true stories about people I know that should be considered for all of us who didn't go to ivy league schools.

My friend in undergrad, Jeremy, always laughed at me for going pre-med. When he asked me why I chose that path I explained how the good salary and job security would let me start a family that would never know the kind of fear my own was reeling from. He laughed at that and showed me print outs and newspapers about the profits of wall street brokerages where his brother worked at Lehman Brothers and had promised to get him a job as well. He bragged that though my salary may start at $100K, his first year bonus would be more than that. So Jeremy chose finance because wall street was where the big money was and poor, naive me chose the old school route to a comfortable and secure life, medicine.

In 2008 the financial meltdown brings down almost all of the brokerage houses and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly Jeremy's golden ticket is no more and now his brother is in deep ****. See, while Jeremy's brother Tom, had made over $1 million/year since 2003, he saved almost none of it, but rather bought a mansion, a Mercedes S class and a ferrari. Why not? After all every year was better than the last and the good times looked they were never going to stop.

Then Lehamn goes bust and Tom can't find a job in brokerage firms. He tries banks and that's a dry hole as well. He tries overseas, but noone wants to hire an American from wall street, who helped cause the disaster in the first place. So today Tom is selling his pocessions, one by one and living a very modest life, hopeing and praying that wall street starts hireing again and the good times return so he can experience the life he grew accustomed to.

Another friend of mine, Marina, had a father who was a family physician in private practice and was doing very well, earning $500,000 last year. He told her not to go into medicine, because business was were the real money was. So she got into Brown, he paid her way completely and she majored in business and got an MBA. Do you know what Marina did with her Ivy league MBA? She got a job in business which she quit after two years to plan her wedding full time, (who the hell does that?) After her wedding she became a home maker because her husband is from a rich spanish family and she can no longer stomach the idea of working in business. She went to an Ivy league school, paid completely by her doctor father and then chose to throw it all away because she had been led down a terrible path by that same father, who apperently thought that all business men live better than doctors.

My own father is a Senior Accountant and Financial Analyst who worked for Northwest and is being let go because Delta bought them out. He is desperate to find something in this terrible job market that pays similar to what he makes now but it looks bleak. He can't sleep at night and I am worried that he is suicidal.

My mother is a Senior Marketing Manager for Hartford Financial. She works 70 hours/week at a job she can't stand with people dumber than her who treat her like ****. Yet despite constantly screaming about how she wants to quit this hell she is trapped in, she is terrified because two of her colleagues where just let go with no warning. They didn't screw up or anything, the company just wanted to cut costs and at her level of management the salaries are about $75-85K, so they decided to start firing people. If all that weren't enough there are rumors that ING wants to buy them and that would almost certainly mean she would be let go.

In this job market she would not be able to find another position for the $80K she is making now, (after 15 years of corporate ladder climbing and a hell of a lot of luck).

At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!

For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness. Hell even Tom thinks that now. He lived the high life for years and lost it all. Maybe I won't be living large like him, but I will be comfortable and my family and I will always know that my job is secure and that our lifestyles will not suddenly change for the worse.

So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?

Buisiness, finance, law? You know my parents have a friend who is a lawyer and you know what he tells his kids? GO INTO MEDICINE! You know why? Because of the old joke that is still funny because it is 100% true!

What do you call a law student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Unemployed.

What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure.

I have talked to many docs and many of them bitch about their jobs. BUT WHY THEN DON'T THEY QUIT? Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can.

 

[Kaustikos]

I have read many threads bashing medicine including one by a guy who graduated Ivy leage and who apperently had hedge funds courting him. Here are two true stories about people I know that should be considered for all of us who didn't go to ivy league schools.

My friend in undergrad, Jeremy, always laughed at me for going pre-med. When he asked me why I chose that path I explained how the good salary and job security would let me start a family that would never know the kind of fear my own was reeling from. He laughed at that and showed me print outs and newspapers about the profits of wall street brokerages where his brother worked at Lehman Brothers and had promised to get him a job as well. He bragged that though my salary may start at $100K, his first year bonus would be more than that. So Jeremy chose finance because wall street was where the big money was and poor, naive me chose the old school route to a comfortable and secure life, medicine.

In 2008 the financial meltdown brings down almost all of the brokerage houses and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly Jeremy's golden ticket is no more and now his brother is in deep ****. See, while Jeremy's brother Tom, had made over $1 million/year since 2003, he saved almost none of it, but rather bought a mansion, a Mercedes S class and a ferrari. Why not? After all every year was better than the last and the good times looked they were never going to stop.

Then Lehamn goes bust and Tom can't find a job in brokerage firms. He tries banks and that's a dry hole as well. He tries overseas, but noone wants to hire an American from wall street, who helped cause the disaster in the first place. So today Tom is selling his pocessions, one by one and living a very modest life, hopeing and praying that wall street starts hireing again and the good times return so he can experience the life he grew accustomed to.

Another friend of mine, Marina, had a father who was a family physician in private practice and was doing very well, earning $500,000 last year. He told her not to go into medicine, because business was were the real money was. So she got into Brown, he paid her way completely and she majored in business and got an MBA. Do you know what Marina did with her Ivy league MBA? She got a job in business which she quit after two years to plan her wedding full time, (who the hell does that?) After her wedding she became a home maker because her husband is from a rich spanish family and she can no longer stomach the idea of working in business. She went to an Ivy league school, paid completely by her doctor father and then chose to throw it all away because she had been led down a terrible path by that same father, who apperently thought that all business men live better than doctors.

My own father is a Senior Accountant and Financial Analyst who worked for Northwest and is being let go because Delta bought them out. He is desperate to find something in this terrible job market that pays similar to what he makes now but it looks bleak. He can't sleep at night and I am worried that he is suicidal.

My mother is a Senior Marketing Manager for Hartford Financial. She works 70 hours/week at a job she can't stand with people dumber than her who treat her like ****. Yet despite constantly screaming about how she wants to quit this hell she is trapped in, she is terrified because two of her colleagues where just let go with no warning. They didn't screw up or anything, the company just wanted to cut costs and at her level of management the salaries are about $75-85K, so they decided to start firing people. If all that weren't enough there are rumors that ING wants to buy them and that would almost certainly mean she would be let go.

In this job market she would not be able to find another position for the $80K she is making now, (after 15 years of corporate ladder climbing and a hell of a lot of luck).

At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!

For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness. Hell even Tom thinks that now. He lived the high life for years and lost it all. Maybe I won't be living large like him, but I will be comfortable and my family and I will always know that my job is secure and that our lifestyles will not suddenly change for the worse.

So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?

Buisiness, finance, law? You know my parents have a friend who is a lawyer and you know what he tells his kids? GO INTO MEDICINE! You know why? Because of the old joke that is still funny because it is 100% true!

What do you call a law student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Unemployed.

What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure.

See, that's the problem. NONE of these residents coming on here b1tching, aside from a few, have any idea what they're talking about. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of naive people who are in medicine right now.

 

[circulus vitios]

Being a student until you're 30-32 years old is a real kick in the teeth. I'm thinking about trying my hand in the financial world because I can earn as much or more money as a physician without the decade or more of higher education and student loans. If that blows up in my face, I can always fall back on medicine - except now I'd be a student until I'm 35 or whatever. 🙁

 

[ChinaDoll]

very enlighting...thanks for sharing..
I think it is stupid and naive to come in here and try to convince those pre-meds who had invested so much time and effort in the path of pursueing medicine not to pursue it anymore...
Everyone is different, while someone might hate their medical careers, others might love theirs...
To me, hearing few sad stories from a med-student or a resident can NEVER change my mind..
My father is a average Joe person works at Muzak (elevator music anyone?), making average salary. My mom stays at home.
None of them is super-smart type. When they knew that I wanted to pursue a career in medicine, they support me without any interference.
"Do Whatever makes you happy"..And I think medicine WILL make me happy..
My point is, we dont need anyone to tell us what to do and what will make us happy and rich. Do whatever makes us happy and try to make the best out of it.
About the future..nobody can predict..afterall, Who is John Galt?

 

[jaxasp]

wtf is with these threads today? every time i finish reading one, a new one is waiting for me at the top of the pre-allo forum. anyway, thanks for the huge post OP, you are a clearly one of the good guys, i would never post that personal stuff on here but whatevs

 

[sunset823]

Being a student until you're 30-32 years old is a real kick in the teeth. I'm thinking about trying my hand in the financial world because I can earn as much or more money as a physician without the decade or more of higher education and student loans. If that blows up in my face, I can always fall back on medicine - except now I'd be a student until I'm 35 or whatever. 🙁

personally, I love life as a student...the real world sucks, and here you don't have much care in the world beyond books and tests. I completely agree with the OP - while I didn't HAVE to go into medicine (I had another degree I could have used, not like a typical bio-major pre-med), and I've never been in a job for the money (I got a policy degree, for pete's sake), the job security plus comfortable financial compensation (even for someone who's planning on going government/academic route like myself) is a huge pull for medicine.

My head wasn't this clear when I came out of undergrad about why I wanted to pursue medicine, and I would have bitched a lot then. But now I'm ready to take all the crap in stride, cuz I've seen it far worse (living in the epicenter of the imploding auto industry).

 

[riceman04]

See, that's the problem. NONE of these residents coming on here b1tching, aside from a few, have any idea what they're talking about. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of naive people who are in medicine right now.

...all this coming from a pre-med who has probably barely even "smelled patients" (LizzyM reference that you may not get)...

EVERYONE has a perspective...even you....but the difference is they are speaking from personal experience and you are simply playing the role of the typical omniscent (or maybe even just naive) premed.

While it may be ok to take what they say with a slight grain of salt (only b/c sometimes you have to see it to believe it) I doubt you are in any position to claim they have "no idea what they're talking about."

👎

 

[Appless]

Exactly people dont understand how the other jobs are...sure medicine may suck at times so does working any job in general. Most pre meds i meet are rich privalaged little brats who have no idea what life is like outside of the huge bank accounts of mommy and daddy. I mean there was a point in my life where i worked 80-100 hour weeks in a factory, this job sucked it was menial, and the pay was horrid. The various other labor jobs i had werent much better...If more of these rich kids who go into medicine would work outside and see how things are i dont think as many would complain. Rarely do i meet even a med student who has had anything but an easy life and had to fight any form of real adversity or struggle....I also live in the orange county which probably explains that too

 

[sunset823]

Exactly people dont understand how the other jobs are...sure medicine may suck at times so does working any job in general. Most pre meds i meet are rich privalaged little brats who have no idea what life is like outside of the huge bank accounts of mommy and daddy. I mean there was a point in my life where i worked 80-100 hour weeks in a factory, this job sucked it was menial, and the pay was horrid. The various other labor jobs i had werent much better...If more of these rich kids who go into medicine would work outside and see how things are i dont think as many would complain. Rarely do i meet even a med student who has had anything but an easy life and had to fight any form of real adversity or struggle....I also live in the orange county which probably explains that too

um, yeah, it does explain a lot...have them move to Detroit, that'll make them get their act together (although, admittedly, Ann Arbor is not much better than the OC, except maybe you get more exposure on television, haha)

 

[plaz]

I have read many threads bashing medicine including one by a guy who graduated Ivy leage and who apperently had hedge funds courting him. Here are two true stories about people I know that should be considered for all of us who didn't go to ivy league schools.

My friend in undergrad, Jeremy, always laughed at me for going pre-med. When he asked me why I chose that path I explained how the good salary and job security would let me start a family that would never know the kind of fear my own was reeling from. He laughed at that and showed me print outs and newspapers about the profits of wall street brokerages where his brother worked at Lehman Brothers and had promised to get him a job as well. He bragged that though my salary may start at $100K, his first year bonus would be more than that. So Jeremy chose finance because wall street was where the big money was and poor, naive me chose the old school route to a comfortable and secure life, medicine.

In 2008 the financial meltdown brings down almost all of the brokerage houses and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly Jeremy's golden ticket is no more and now his brother is in deep ****. See, while Jeremy's brother Tom, had made over $1 million/year since 2003, he saved almost none of it, but rather bought a mansion, a Mercedes S class and a ferrari. Why not? After all every year was better than the last and the good times looked they were never going to stop.

Then Lehamn goes bust and Tom can't find a job in brokerage firms. He tries banks and that's a dry hole as well. He tries overseas, but noone wants to hire an American from wall street, who helped cause the disaster in the first place. So today Tom is selling his pocessions, one by one and living a very modest life, hopeing and praying that wall street starts hireing again and the good times return so he can experience the life he grew accustomed to.

Another friend of mine, Marina, had a father who was a family physician in private practice and was doing very well, earning $500,000 last year. He told her not to go into medicine, because business was were the real money was. So she got into Brown, he paid her way completely and she majored in business and got an MBA. Do you know what Marina did with her Ivy league MBA? She got a job in business which she quit after two years to plan her wedding full time, (who the hell does that?) After her wedding she became a home maker because her husband is from a rich spanish family and she can no longer stomach the idea of working in business. She went to an Ivy league school, paid completely by her doctor father and then chose to throw it all away because she had been led down a terrible path by that same father, who apperently thought that all business men live better than doctors.

My own father is a Senior Accountant and Financial Analyst who worked for Northwest and is being let go because Delta bought them out. He is desperate to find something in this terrible job market that pays similar to what he makes now but it looks bleak. He can't sleep at night and I am worried that he is suicidal.

My mother is a Senior Marketing Manager for Hartford Financial. She works 70 hours/week at a job she can't stand with people dumber than her who treat her like ****. Yet despite constantly screaming about how she wants to quit this hell she is trapped in, she is terrified because two of her colleagues where just let go with no warning. They didn't screw up or anything, the company just wanted to cut costs and at her level of management the salaries are about $75-85K, so they decided to start firing people. If all that weren't enough there are rumors that ING wants to buy them and that would almost certainly mean she would be let go.

In this job market she would not be able to find another position for the $80K she is making now, (after 15 years of corporate ladder climbing and a hell of a lot of luck).

At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!

For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness. Hell even Tom thinks that now. He lived the high life for years and lost it all. Maybe I won't be living large like him, but I will be comfortable and my family and I will always know that my job is secure and that our lifestyles will not suddenly change for the worse.

So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?

Buisiness, finance, law? You know my parents have a friend who is a lawyer and you know what he tells his kids? GO INTO MEDICINE! You know why? Because of the old joke that is still funny because it is 100% true!

What do you call a law student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Unemployed.

What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure.

I have talked to many docs and many of them bitch about their jobs. BUT WHY THEN DON'T THEY QUIT? Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can.

 

[plaz]

Being a student until you're 30-32 years old is a real kick in the teeth. I'm thinking about trying my hand in the financial world because I can earn as much or more money as a physician without the decade or more of higher education and student loans. If that blows up in my face, I can always fall back on medicine - except now I'd be a student until I'm 35 or whatever. 🙁

An extra decade of education only blows if you don't enjoy being educated. 🙂

 

[circulus vitios]

For what it's worth, I think prestige is really overrated. Money and personal enjoyment are tangible qualities, but what is prestige? Being able to brag about a doctor at a bar? It seems like the novelty would wear off pretty quickly once you're doing q3 overnight call.

An extra decade of education only blows if you don't enjoy being educated. 🙂

I love to learn, but an extra decade? I think being a surgeon would be awesome because I'm a hands on/instant gratification person, but ten or more years or higher education (and a quarter million in student loans) makes it a really tough decision.

 

[plaz]

...all this coming from a pre-med who has probably barely even "smelled patients" (LizzyM reference that you may not get)...

EVERYONE has a perspective...even you....but the difference is they are speaking from personal experience and you are simply playing the role of the typical omniscent (or maybe even just naive) premed.

While it may be ok to take what they say with a slight grain of salt (only b/c sometimes you have to see it to believe it) I doubt you are in any position to claim they have "no idea what they're talking about."

👎

Hey riceman. Wake up. You're not going to get any purely "right" answer on something so subjective as this. It's opinion, and I happen to agree with the OP's. As for someone with experience.... n still =1 my friend. Take it or leave it, but you can't say he's wrong just because he hasn't been a doctor. That's just silliness.

 

[Omni]

Being a student until you're 30-32 years old is a real kick in the teeth. I'm thinking about trying my hand in the financial world because I can earn as much or more money as a physician without the decade or more of higher education and student loans. If that blows up in my face, I can always fall back on medicine - except now I'd be a student until I'm 35 or whatever. 🙁

You are still learning something, but at the same time, you are getting paid. Sure you will still be a student, but what is wrong with that? Medicine is dynamic. You explore new options, you do new procedures, you learn new things.

And to OP: Job security is something that everyone leaves out. In medicine, there is no chance for you to spend 20+ years after med school, and suddenly get a paper saying that you're laid off, of course unless you do something stupid.

 

[plaz]

For what it's worth, I think prestige is really overrated. Money and personal enjoyment are tangible qualities, but what is prestige? Being able to brag about a doctor at a bar? It seems like the novelty would wear off pretty quickly once you're doing q3 overnight call.



I love to learn, but an extra decade? I think being a surgeon would be awesome because I'm a hands on/instant gratification person, but ten or more years or higher education (and a quarter million in student loans) makes it a really tough decision.

Think about it like this. You do get instant gratification fairly soon in your path to becoming an MD. I don't consider any education before earning a BS as higher learning because it is an absolute necessity for me. Therefore, I see 4 years of education before the fun begins. And really, because of rounds, it's only two years of strict education before you get to start having a ton of fun.

 

[Trexate]

Wall of Text crits you for 1337.

I imagine it's different if you have a family to support. Personally, I do not fear being laid off or fired. If necessary, I'll sell my car and go back to driving a beater. If necessary, I'll move in with one of my relatives and pay rent. If necessary, I'll give up the condo life, give up all my flaming worldly possesions, go live in a dilapidated house in a toxic waste part of town, and have to come home to my imaginary friend having sex with his/my g/f.

 

[lilqu]

I have read many threads bashing medicine including one by a guy who graduated Ivy leage and who apperently had hedge funds courting him. Here are two true stories about people I know that should be considered for all of us who didn't go to ivy league schools.

My friend in undergrad, Jeremy, always laughed at me for going pre-med. When he asked me why I chose that path I explained how the good salary and job security would let me start a family that would never know the kind of fear my own was reeling from. He laughed at that and showed me print outs and newspapers about the profits of wall street brokerages where his brother worked at Lehman Brothers and had promised to get him a job as well. He bragged that though my salary may start at $100K, his first year bonus would be more than that. So Jeremy chose finance because wall street was where the big money was and poor, naive me chose the old school route to a comfortable and secure life, medicine.

In 2008 the financial meltdown brings down almost all of the brokerage houses and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly Jeremy's golden ticket is no more and now his brother is in deep ****. See, while Jeremy's brother Tom, had made over $1 million/year since 2003, he saved almost none of it, but rather bought a mansion, a Mercedes S class and a ferrari. Why not? After all every year was better than the last and the good times looked they were never going to stop.

Then Lehamn goes bust and Tom can't find a job in brokerage firms. He tries banks and that's a dry hole as well. He tries overseas, but noone wants to hire an American from wall street, who helped cause the disaster in the first place. So today Tom is selling his pocessions, one by one and living a very modest life, hopeing and praying that wall street starts hireing again and the good times return so he can experience the life he grew accustomed to.

Another friend of mine, Marina, had a father who was a family physician in private practice and was doing very well, earning $500,000 last year. He told her not to go into medicine, because business was were the real money was. So she got into Brown, he paid her way completely and she majored in business and got an MBA. Do you know what Marina did with her Ivy league MBA? She got a job in business which she quit after two years to plan her wedding full time, (who the hell does that?) After her wedding she became a home maker because her husband is from a rich spanish family and she can no longer stomach the idea of working in business. She went to an Ivy league school, paid completely by her doctor father and then chose to throw it all away because she had been led down a terrible path by that same father, who apperently thought that all business men live better than doctors.

My own father is a Senior Accountant and Financial Analyst who worked for Northwest and is being let go because Delta bought them out. He is desperate to find something in this terrible job market that pays similar to what he makes now but it looks bleak. He can't sleep at night and I am worried that he is suicidal.

My mother is a Senior Marketing Manager for Hartford Financial. She works 70 hours/week at a job she can't stand with people dumber than her who treat her like ****. Yet despite constantly screaming about how she wants to quit this hell she is trapped in, she is terrified because two of her colleagues where just let go with no warning. They didn't screw up or anything, the company just wanted to cut costs and at her level of management the salaries are about $75-85K, so they decided to start firing people. If all that weren't enough there are rumors that ING wants to buy them and that would almost certainly mean she would be let go.

In this job market she would not be able to find another position for the $80K she is making now, (after 15 years of corporate ladder climbing and a hell of a lot of luck).

At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!

For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness. Hell even Tom thinks that now. He lived the high life for years and lost it all. Maybe I won't be living large like him, but I will be comfortable and my family and I will always know that my job is secure and that our lifestyles will not suddenly change for the worse.

So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?

Buisiness, finance, law? You know my parents have a friend who is a lawyer and you know what he tells his kids? GO INTO MEDICINE! You know why? Because of the old joke that is still funny because it is 100% true!

What do you call a law student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Unemployed.

What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure.

I have talked to many docs and many of them bitch about their jobs. BUT WHY THEN DON'T THEY QUIT? Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can.

so this whole discourse is basically about how your friend is filled with pride about his career - his covetousness and greed, by bragging about how much money he will be making in a future career..... and your refuting your friend by stating that the main reason you chose medicine have been driven by many fears - unemployment and wanting to live 'secure' and wanting to 'start a family'....... that's very worrying, because there are other careers that you could go into and get the same. and bragging about doctors who graduated at 'the bottom of their class' and still having job security doesnt make me feel that good on the inside if he was to me my physician...i'd probably want to know why that happened and if for his work ethic i'd avoid him at all costs lol!

"I have talked to many docs and many of them bitch about their jobs. BUT WHY THEN DON'T THEY QUIT? Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can"

and how much research have you done to substantiate that? there are many doctors who love their jobs and many who don't because they were probably like you - going into it for the wrong reasons. and how is life worse outside med? there are men i know that have their own lawn-mopwing business here in florida, and they manage to bring the daily bread for their families, and live a content life.
Prestige feeds pride in people without a genuine motive to be in a career where the 'prestige' should simply be given because physicians study for many years in one of the most rigorous graduate programs in the world, and constantly deal with people's lives every day.


"What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure."

????? i seriously call other pre-med students in this forum to examine themselves. Yes job security is a healthy by product of going into this career, but it seems that your whole mindset is driven into this one motive. theres job security as a nurse and youre paid well, as a pharmacist with your starting 90k-100k salary, as a dentist, PA, and so on and so worth. If any of you are only going to become doctor's cos you feel secure then please examine yourself as to what other career you could be looking at.

remember this - our lives are but a vapor - you can spend your whole life working for somethign that will make you feel more secure but you have no control over when you die, the same breath God gives is the same one He can take away without your consent, so your whole life is already insecure - no point 'searching' for security in vein factors such as finances....that are here today and tomorrow could be gone, even for M.D's (unlikely but you never know 😕)


"At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!"

senario: this sentence becomes a reality to 100% of people who live in america, result: all american parents drill their children to attend med school even against their will for a) monetary gain, and b) job security.
further result(1): top executives promise a 100k salary for new janitors as their old ones retire. further result(2): americans disregard the long and arduous path to achieve an M.D and flock to apply for janitor positions..... FOTM FTW??


For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

How do you know that?
how can you substantiate this fact? what research have you done? because i know at least 50 people that are content with their lives - finances are a worry every now and then especially with this economy however they do not fret and start doubting their careers.

"So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?"

and if i work at a retail store like GNC, which isnt exactly a 'good' career (i know ive worked there) would you say i would not be able to eat? - cos ive seen the contrary...😕

"You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness."

If that is your definition of happiness you will be very surprised as you grow up in this life.

my conclusion: you use these terrible examples about people you have met and seen, some who dove headlong into careers hoping to make money but when things went sour they are second guessing their career decisions, and those same fears that they are riddled with are ruling your life - fear of insecurity and being poor. and you're trying to impose that fear on us also so that we can 'feel good' about ourselves and to fuel our prilgrimage into this medical career.

i am NOT saying that job security and getting paid well (WTB high college loan debt anyone????😕) is not a motive that we have to consider - and we should as we consider a career in any field (how will i be able to care for myself and my family, and later on my parents, will i be of good use to my fellow man, and be able to help those whom i love financially an din other ways). however if this is the driving motive for you to pick medicine STOP search elsewhere you will not make a good doctor. some of the best physicians in the world are men who genuinely love the profession and have a burden in their heart to help people😍 and through their sacrificial work and research they are deservingly rewarded monetarily and with securing a job which benefits you with a good position in the community also 🙂

 

[MN premed]

Sorry I didn't really read through everything everyone else had to say, but I read yours, xmsr3. It seems to me like you are doing medicine for the wrong reasons.... if you're just doing it for financial security, you won't be any happier than someone who goes into finance/business for security and doesn't actually enjoy doing it. Maybe I misunderstood, but if this is your only motivation to do medicine, I truly hope you don't take someone's spot who is passionate about it 🙁 I don't mean to be rude, but it's true. Make sure you are only doing it if you really want to be a doctor. And not for the money.

 

[Kaustikos]

...all this coming from a pre-med who has probably barely even "smelled patients" (LizzyM reference that you may not get)...

EVERYONE has a perspective...even you....but the difference is they are speaking from personal experience and you are simply playing the role of the typical omniscent (or maybe even just naive) premed.

While it may be ok to take what they say with a slight grain of salt (only b/c sometimes you have to see it to believe it) I doubt you are in any position to claim they have "no idea what they're talking about."

👎

I've done more in my life than 90% of people frequenting this board. I may not be a med student, or a resident or whatever, but I have perspective that even most residents don't have any idea about. I offer my opinion here because people in residency have, for the most part, not worked 9-5 or had a job relating to a career, and so don't understand what it's like outside. They live in this cave for so long and think they have it the worst, when they don't...at all. The sacrifice they make is hard, maybe brutal, but I would hardly go about saying they have the worst life imagineable or its the "worst career choice". They just had NO idea what they were getting themselves into or what the outside is really like. It's annoying to hear these residents come here and say "don't do it, it's terrible" when they haven't even finished 👎

 

[Kaustikos]

Wall of Text crits you for 1337.

I imagine it's different if you have a family to support. Personally, I do not fear being laid off or fired. If necessary, I'll sell my car and go back to driving a beater. If necessary, I'll move in with one of my relatives and pay rent. If necessary, I'll give up the condo life, give up all my flaming worldly possesions, go live in a dilapidated house in a toxic waste part of town, and have to come home to my imaginary friend having sex with his/my g/f.

But you're closer to hitting bottom!

 

[lilqu]

Sorry I didn't really read through everything everyone else had to say, but I read yours, xmsr3. It seems to me like you are doing medicine for the wrong reasons.... if you're just doing it for financial security, you won't be any happier than someone who goes into finance/business for security and doesn't actually enjoy doing it. Maybe I misunderstood, but if this is your only motivation to do medicine, I truly hope you don't take someone's spot who is passionate about it 🙁 I don't mean to be rude, but it's true. Make sure you are only doing it if you really want to be a doctor. And not for the money.

i agree with you - i summarized it in my post 🙂

 

[riceman04]

Hey riceman. Wake up. You're not going to get any purely "right" answer on something so subjective as this. It's opinion, and I happen to agree with the OP's. As for someone with experience.... n still =1 my friend. Take it or leave it, but you can't say he's wrong just because he hasn't been a doctor. That's just silliness.

You are right - subjectivity does not lend itself to establishing what is deemed right or wrong; however, that does not give kaustikos any right to assume those residents have "no idea what they are talking about" (adapted from what I quoted before).

If you look closely at my argument I was not responding to the OP, but rather to kaustikos' pseudo diatribe directed towards those who label themself as "resident" and proceed to "bitch."

So in considering your call for me to wake up, maybe you should reevaluate who is actually entrenched in "silliness."

 

[Trexate]

But you're closer to hitting bottom!

I'll feel better once the chemical burn on my hand heals a bit more. And once I beat myself up in my boss's office and blackmail him into giving me money to stay home.

Ah, the good life...

 

[RogueUnicorn]

didn't read the replies but this seems to me a terrible reason to study 10+ years...

 

[Slowpoke]

You know what gets me?

When people who aren't in medicine tell other people to go into medicine.

How the #&^# do they know its any better? --- It just LOOKS better from the outside in. The grass always seems greener on the other side.

Think about it.

There are always doctors who warn pre-meds not to go into medicine because its not worth it.

There are always professionals outside of the allied health profession who enourage students to go into medicine.

It's human nature, and in the end - you will be happy following your passion.

That's it. The secret is out of its box.

 

[Slowpoke]

I'll feel better once the chemical burn on my hand heals a bit more. And once I beat myself up in my boss's office and blackmail him into giving me money to stay home.

Ah, the good life...

hang out with your imaginary friend today? I am still looking for mine, have you seen tyler durden?

 

[Kaustikos]

You are right - subjectivity does not lend itself to establishing what is deemed right or wrong; however, that does not give kaustikos any right to assume those residents have "no idea what they are talking about" (adapted from what I quoted before).

If you look closely at my argument I was not responding to the OP, but rather to kaustikos' pseudo diatribe directed towards those who label themself as "resident" and proceed to "bitch."

So in considering your call for me to wake up, maybe you should reevaluate who is actually entrenched in "silliness."

For every 10 million threads about residents saying "don't go in there", there will be 2-3 posts saying "you have no clue". I have evaluated the posts that have come here recently and can say with certainty that a MAJOR impacting factor in these threads is that people haven't even been in the workforce before attending medical school. Realizing that work is work is a major contributing factor in a lot of peoples decisions to pursue careers. Once people get over the idea that medicine is some super-interesting science-filled detective work, the better. It's a grind just like any other job. The liability is greater, which is why they beat you down like Rodney King in this curriculum. I'm frankly surprised people seem to think medicine is any different than any other career. Even CEOs of big companies deal with this ****.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'll feel better once the chemical burn on my hand heals a bit more. And once I beat myself up in my boss's office and blackmail him into giving me money to stay home.

Ah, the good life...

What about Robert Paulson

 

[Trexate]

Now tell me now to program a file so I can save patient data and make sure I have enough space to upload 3,000 files all at once. Buffoons I tell ya.

In what language? Using web services or are we doing this on a local machine? Where are we uploading to? Jesus! Do you even have a functional spec? How am I supposed to handle the project if there is nothing telling me what the project is?! What do you mean it's shipping next week?!

*sigh* Guess I'll go troll the SDN forums...

 

[Trexate]

I was just giving a quick example. I didn't want to give a detailed response.

Sarcasm Comprehension: D+

 

[xmsr3]

Sorry I didn't really read through everything everyone else had to say, but I read yours, xmsr3. It seems to me like you are doing medicine for the wrong reasons.... if you're just doing it for financial security, you won't be any happier than someone who goes into finance/business for security and doesn't actually enjoy doing it. Maybe I misunderstood, but if this is your only motivation to do medicine, I truly hope you don't take someone's spot who is passionate about it 🙁 I don't mean to be rude, but it's true. Make sure you are only doing it if you really want to be a doctor. And not for the money.

OK, let me make this really clear. This post was about defending medicine from disgruntled Residents and attendings who go on about how other professions can make more money for less time.

My personal reasons for going into medicine are much more than money.

Heck I am joining the Navy medical corp because it is a society that is damned near socialist! Everyone has employment, housing, food, healthcare, education and a pension. Everyone is guaranteed a minimum standard of living in return for serving the greater good!

I refuse to work in a society in which good people who are willing and able to work hard can't make ends meet.

I chose medicine because I have a genuine love of science and helping people. Combining all of my deeply held beliefs and passions into a life long naval career is what I want to do because it is the best way I can think of to make a real difference in the world.

Does the stability of naval medicine strongly influence my decision? You bet because guess what I want to have a family. And while millions of Americans raise families in our free for all of a society, without any security, I will accept nothing less than my family never worrying about money.

For me its not just medicine, its naval medicine and nothing less because I view it as not a career, or a calling but a way of life. Its an entirely different culuture than the one I have grown up in and one I think is superior in the most important aspects of how it treats its residents.

BUT I would like to say something in defense of those who are going into private medical practice only for the financial benefits. They are a much larger minority than the medical profession would like to admit and for good reason.

Many here have stated that, "you can have a good, comfortable life outside of medicine, even raise a family".

BUT there is one thing that applies to medicine alone and that is undeniable. Guranteed security.

Teachers can raise families, lawyers, businessmen, scientists, police officers, ect. BUT only a doctor knows that his job is safe and his income guaranteed.

Well to be honest there is one other profession that gurantees a safe and secure life, the military. Any college grad who signs up with the military becomes a commissioned officer and is guranteed a starting benefits package of $50K and all the perks.

But then most people are unwilling to go the military route so medicine is the only route for them.

For myself, someone who is willing to give up specializing in the private medical field to make $300K+ because my principles mean more to me than several million dollars, I choose to serve my country and mankind by going the military medical route.

I know its not for everyone, heck most people even, because the sacrifices one makes in military med are large and at times, extreme.

But I am of the opinion that those who are willing and able to make those sacrifices must stand to post to serve the greater good and so I will accept the hardships and come what may I shall not falter in my convictions. For the liberty of all to choose whatever life they desire I choose to answer the call to serve as a naval doctor.

 

[Trexate]

Please don't go to med school with me

Aww, don't get all pissy. Besides, sarcasm translates better in spoken words than in typed ones.

I was curious as to what sort of business venture you are on. Being a software engineer, I understand the pitfalls of the software development cycle and was offering an amusing rhetoric of a typical work day for me. That's all, no offense meant.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

personally, I love life as a student...the real world sucks, and here you don't have much care in the world beyond books and tests. I completely agree with the OP - while I didn't HAVE to go into medicine (I had another degree I could have used, not like a typical bio-major pre-med), and I've never been in a job for the money (I got a policy degree, for pete's sake), the job security plus comfortable financial compensation (even for someone who's planning on going government/academic route like myself) is a huge pull for medicine.

My head wasn't this clear when I came out of undergrad about why I wanted to pursue medicine, and I would have bitched a lot then. But now I'm ready to take all the crap in stride, cuz I've seen it far worse (living in the epicenter of the imploding auto industry).

👍👍

 

[theslowclap]

I'm surprised some free-spirited hippie didn't point out we're all going to die within 60 years (if lucky) yet. I guess a preprofessional internet forum would be a bad place to find one.

 

[qmcat]

I've been skimming this thread a few minutes ago and wanted to give my $0.02.

Sure, medicine has financial security, and if you love it you should go for it, but there are a lot of other secure jobs out there too for those of you who haven't explored all options.

For example, being an auto-mechanic can be a financially secure job. Most people own cars and over time cars break down or have problems. Every 3000 miles or so, you have to change oil... and there are tons of other routine maintenance things that need to be done.

My view of job security is you just need to find a job where you are needed. Working as a cashier or folding clothes at a clothing store is not a secure job because it's not really needed and anyone can do it, while auto-mechanics are needed because almost everyone has a car nowadays and needs to get it fixed once in a while.

Anyway, my point is if you're really paranoid about job security, you should first find something or things that you love/enjoy doing, and then ask yourself if the job is really needed.

 

[stud247]

xsmr, you mentioned a guy who was making $1m/year in his 20's or early 30's?. If you put emotions aside, that guy is better off than any doctor. If he planned wisely he could get out after that $1m year and open a small business whether in california or monte carlo or thailand. He could buy a hostel in swiss alps. As a doctor you are making an average of <$50k/yr until you are in your late 30's (depending on how many screw ups you had along the way that would delay your training). Successful people can retire in late 30's. While med school prides itself on accomodating losers who are entering medical schools in their 30's when they should be taking care of their family.

I am not in business because I had screw ups. I.e. a premed major (and the only achievements/experiences being mcat and volunteering at a hospital) do not land you a job at a bank. So even if I become a resident some day and complain about my $50k/yr income in my 30's it's not like I could be making $500k/yr on wall street. But people who were smart definitely have that option.

p.s. regarding money: a great way to make money is to go to a med school in a city where your parents or some other relatives live so you could live at their home and take out those living expenses loans at $20k/yr. Can invest $80k over 4yrs and if you're good come out with about $200k out of med school. But thats peanuts compared to what an ibanker who lives modestly for 4yrs could accumulate if he invests wisely.

 

[el aye]

Wall of Text crits you for 1337.

I hate crits 😡

I have an idea, become a doctor and then get hired onto the board of directors for a bank. Best of both worlds, no?

 

[danimjo]

This is an interesting thread for several reasons... it seems like everyone is giving their opinion and supporting it with anecdotal references I thought I'd add some factual reference to the discussion.

The following is an article from Forbes.com from May 2008 titled "Reasons Not to Become a Doctor"

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/ph...-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html?partner=email

Ultimately, it didn't talk me out pursuing medicine but it definitely made me rethink about my reasons for choosing the field. No matter what field you choose, the decision should be based on your love and aptitude for the field and not on where you can make the most money. Any field has risks, whether it's the financial sector and a stock market crash, or being a doctor and losing a big malpractice suit. And as someone who has been out of college and working full time plus (and also someone who worked in a manhattan stock firm for a year), trust me everyone gets tired of going in to work, but doing a job you love makes those tiresome days happen a lot less often.

 

[stud247]

I've been skimming this thread a few minutes ago and wanted to give my $0.02.

Sure, medicine has financial security, and if you love it you should go for it, but there are a lot of other secure jobs out there too for those of you who haven't explored all options.

For example, being an auto-mechanic can be a financially secure job. Most people own cars and over time cars break down or have problems. Every 3000 miles or so, you have to change oil... and there are tons of other routine maintenance things that need to be done.

My view of job security is you just need to find a job where you are needed. Working as a cashier or folding clothes at a clothing store is not a secure job because it's not really needed and anyone can do it, while auto-mechanics are needed because almost everyone has a car nowadays and needs to get it fixed once in a while.

Anyway, my point is if you're really paranoid about job security, you should first find something or things that you love/enjoy doing, and then ask yourself if the job is really needed.

cop and teacher are the most realistic careers. You dont need to have an ivy pedigree in economics. and the process of getting that job in nyc would be <1yr. a cop would average about $80k over the first 5yrs and have a detective badge and a gun,etc (read blue blood btw). teacher would make $50k and a 3months vacation (which he could for example dedicate to volunteering at a cancer lab or to travelling in kazakhstan). and you will break their $50k-100k average only when you reach your late 30's. you do not reproduce in your late 30's. success is determined when you are in your upper 20's or at most the early 30's.

but who would want to go after another career if you've already invested so much EFFORT into medicine.

 

[stud247]

This is an interesting thread for several reasons... it seems like everyone is giving their opinion and supporting it with anecdotal references I thought I'd add some factual reference to the discussion.

The following is an article from Forbes.com from May 2008 titled "Reasons Not to Become a Doctor"

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/ph...-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html?partner=email

Ultimately, it didn't talk me out pursuing medicine but it definitely made me rethink about my reasons for choosing the field. No matter what field you choose, the decision should be based on your love and aptitude for the field and not on where you can make the most money. Any field has risks, whether it's the financial sector and a stock market crash, or being a doctor and losing a big malpractice suit. And as someone who has been out of college and working full time plus (and also someone who worked in a manhattan stock firm for a year), trust me everyone gets tired of going in to work, but doing a job you love makes those tiresome days happen a lot less often.

if you are normal, you love your gf or your mother or yourself. sorry I do not love any job in particular and I'd be a garbage man if it were the elite profession.

 

[danimjo]

if you are normal, you love your gf or your mother or yourself. sorry I do not love any job in particular and I'd be a garbage man if it were the elite profession.

Ooohh that felt very personal.... lots of people love their work... start talking to people who work for non-profits I bet the phrase "I love what I do" will come up....

Another sobering resource to help us make this decision....

PBS did a documentary on physicians, it started following them when they were interns at Harvard medical school, in the 1980's. They just did an update of the seven Dr's, and everyone of them who got married, has been divorced. The guy who went into ER medicine can't find a steady job and is on the brink of bankruptcy, one of them quite medicine right after graduation and never started her residency - she's now on the board of an NYC non-profit, another is a does cardiac research for a pharmaceutical company and says leaving practice was the best decision she's ever made, the one who went into family practice talks candidly about how she doesn't make enough money to make the stress of her job worth it, the remaining three are an anesthesiologist, a eye specialist, and a psychologist both in private practice. anyway... I think it was called the doctors and it's definitely worth watching... like I said it's a sobering summary of what life after medical school can look like.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/

 

[stud247]

Ooohh that felt very personal.... lots of people love their work... start talking to people who work for non-profits I bet the phrase "I love what I do" will come up....

Another sobering resource to help us make this decision....

PBS did a documentary on physicians, it started following them when they were interns at Harvard medical school, in the 1980's. They just did an update of the seven Dr's, and everyone of them who got married, has been divorced. The guy who went into ER medicine can't find a steady job and is on the brink of bankruptcy, one of them quite medicine right after graduation and never started her residency - she's now on the board of an NYC non-profit, another is a does cardiac research for a pharmaceutical company and says leaving practice was the best decision she's ever made, the one who went into family practice talks candidly about how she doesn't make enough money to make the stress of her job worth it, the remaining three are an anesthesiologist, a eye specialist, and a psychologist both in private practice. anyway... I think it was called the doctors and it's definitely worth watching... like I said it's a sobering summary of what life after medical school can look like.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/

damn. I thought I was most interested in ER. I thought in ER you could moonlight in residency and moonlight after residency even if you have 2 other jobs but just need some extra cash. Or you could quit working for a year if you don't like coming to work. Maybe that doctor from the 1980's is not EM certified. But I must say most hospitals are "non-profit", yet they can afford to pay $300k/yr to someone like Michelle Obama. As for being divorced: if you marry a hot woman when you are 20 and you divorce at 30 and marry another hot 20yo, it's all good by me. But I am no longer 20... I think it is lame for old people to divorce.

 

[BennieBlanco]

At some point I have talked to these people, all of which know that I am going into medicine. And you know what? THEY ALL WISH THEY HAD GONE INTO MEDICINE! Why? Because even a doctor in the public sector makes more than any of them can make now! And they have lifetime job security!

For 99% of Americans life truely and completely sucks right now! They live in constant fear of loseing their job, (which means loseing health insurance) of not being able to pay the bills, that the lives they have spent decades building could come crashing down around them at any time.

You know what I think? I think that without security you can't have happiness. Hell even Tom thinks that now. He lived the high life for years and lost it all. Maybe I won't be living large like him, but I will be comfortable and my family and I will always know that my job is secure and that our lifestyles will not suddenly change for the worse.

So to those who warn us eager young premeds away from medicine I ask you where should we go? We live in America, where if you want to eat you need a good career? What career should we choose?

Buisiness, finance, law? You know my parents have a friend who is a lawyer and you know what he tells his kids? GO INTO MEDICINE! You know why? Because of the old joke that is still funny because it is 100% true!

What do you call a law student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Unemployed.

What do you call a med student who finishes in the bottom half of his class? Doctor and financially secure.

I have talked to many docs and many of them bitch about their jobs. BUT WHY THEN DON'T THEY QUIT? Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can.

Money isn't the reason you should breath and exist.

You can tell by your post that your focus is security and money. These things are not what make people happy. There are many rich depressed people, in fact who do you think is paying for all the prozac?

And as for security, that is a myth. The only security that we have is to be excellent at what we do. If we are the best we will always be employable.

Security = happiness? Nope. You can find a lot of people absolutely secure in their jobs and careers and miserable.

Its funny you say that for 99% of American's, life sucks. This shows the flaw in your own philosophy. That you somehow believe that how happy people are is based upon the economy or their job/income. I know a lot of people believe this, they are called young and inexperienced. I believed it once. Then you experience an amazing job that pays well and a crappy one that pays nothing (you are still you), then you experience a great economy and a poor one (you are still you), then you meet and get to know wealthy people and poor people. All the while you learn that it isn't the circumstances.

so if you are really looking to be happy and have peace, then you're looking in the wrong places.

 

[Kaustikos]

Money is definitely NOT the reason for my motivation. I just turned down a 70k/yr job to go back to school

 

[BerlinDude]

A few thoughts:

1. Everyone here is interested in medicine, no need to discuss it.

2. Money is a shallow reason to enter into medicine.

3. The pay in medicine is just as variable as the pay in business. For all you know America will pass health care reform just like Europe did, and then physician's salaries will plummet. Also, see No 2.

 

[locus000]

The question that I am asked the most by random people since choosing premed "Why did you choose to become a doctor, for the money?"

Alot of us here know, you don't make good money as a doctor, but making alot of money isn't my concern. I turn down an opportunity for a $20/hr full time job to work on my post-bac this year. I came to the US poor so I am fine with making enough money to live.

More money = more problems

 

[xmsr3]

First, it is true that financial security isn't, itself, sufficient to gurantee happiness, but I think it is necessary.

Second, that forbes article makes some very good points. First there is already a doctor shortage, one that will get much worse over the next 4 years. Also, many docs will be retiring in the coming 5 years, I think I have read something like 30%, (part of baby boomers). Next, if pay gets cut 40% then you can expect 75% to retire or quit.

So basically in 5-10 years, when we would be finishing residency, the doctor crisis will grow so bad that the laws of macro econ kick in and we are suddenly living the golden life.

Already we see malpractice insurance dropping and states like texas passing laws to protect docs.

Hospitals are now offering FPs clinic posts where they have set hours and no on call duty. These are the kind of conditions we dream of.

Well I predict that in 5 years doctors will be treated like rock stars and conditions within 10 years will be the best they have ever been.

 

[niranjan162]

First, it is true that financial security isn't, itself, sufficient to gurantee happiness, but I think it is necessary.

Second, that forbes article makes some very good points. First there is already a doctor shortage, one that will get much worse over the next 4 years. Also, many docs will be retiring in the coming 5 years, I think I have read something like 30%, (part of baby boomers). Next, if pay gets cut 40% then you can expect 75% to retire or quit.

So basically in 5-10 years, when we would be finishing residency, the doctor crisis will grow so bad that the laws of macro econ kick in and we are suddenly living the golden life.

Already we see malpractice insurance dropping and states like texas passing laws to protect docs.

Hospitals are now offering FPs clinic posts where they have set hours and no on call duty. These are the kind of conditions we dream of.

Well I predict that in 5 years doctors will be treated like rock stars and conditions within 10 years will be the best they have ever been.

Your prediction is wrong. We have a shortage of docs right now and they are still getting **** on. With the current administration pushing rash reform and a president who is against torte reform at the center of it, its only gonna get worse for doctors.

Also the unemployment rate has increased about 4%. Thats hardly 99% of americans. In fact its 4% more americans than before the recession.

Secondly just because youre a doctor doesnt mean your immune to being fired. Hospitals are black holes for money and when they shut down guess what youre out of a job. However, you will have an easier time finding another, comparatively, to someone who only needed a college education to get their job.

Third doctors dont just quit medicine when they dont like it because theyre already 30 (ideally) by the time they start practicing and have med school debt to pay off. Your friend marina, could do whatever she wanted cuz she had no debt and a rich husband. Not sure why you included this in your post.

If your friends tom and all, had been smart with their millions, they would be fine right now and probably living better lives than most doctors. Them not saving doesnt prove medicine is better just that they made poor decisions.

Kaustikos, youre bitching about residents not working 9-5s before they start medicine. Last time I checked they had to put hour restrictions, just to make residency equal to 2 9-5's, get over yourself.

The only thing we can learn from this is work is work and nobody likes to do it.

 

[amoiliz]

"Because deep down they know that life is worse outside medicine. Its less pay with no job security, far less prestige and you can't ever say that you made a real difference in the world, like a doctor can."




Appreciated the reminder🙄

 

[neuro1986]

You are right - subjectivity does not lend itself to establishing what is deemed right or wrong; however, that does not give kaustikos any right to assume those residents have "no idea what they are talking about" (adapted from what I quoted before).

If you look closely at my argument I was not responding to the OP, but rather to kaustikos' pseudo diatribe directed towards those who label themself as "resident" and proceed to "bitch."

So in considering your call for me to wake up, maybe you should reevaluate who is actually entrenched in "silliness."

Oh how much different this discussion would be if everyone could think as clearly as you, regardless of their opinions (people on both sides of this discussion).