For those who chose between Upenn and Temple

[aforgottenshirt]

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I've looked at previous threads but am looking for current dental students who can give me some advice.

I have been accepted to temple and have a upenn interview this thursday -- so I have not gotten in yet and might not so this thread may be pointless. But hopefully not

BUT I need to make my $1000 non-refundable deposit to temple by Friday the 15th.

So far I have the following ideas based on research/feelings:

Temple pros: cheaper (I have been living here the past year while not in school so hopefully I can prove my residency and it will be a lot cheaper), better clinical, less competitive (I think?), new renovations
Temple cons: doesn't seem as good for specializing (I am leaning towards specializing but of course can't be sure yet)

UPenn pros: my boyfriend is going there and we will most likely live together next year so it would be nice to be close to campus, the campus is beautiful and I love all of the trees and environment of university city more than Temple's, the name/prestige (ppl automatically assume that I should go to Upenn if they know nothing about dental schools - which most of the world doesn't), possibly higher likelihood of specializing - although I'm not sure about this either
Upenn cons: Seems a lot more cut-throat (although maybe I'm wrong) than temple, seems tougher - a lot more studying/homework while less time with patients, less clinical experience, I've heard that the lecture halls/etc are more ancient while temple is currently having renovations

I haven't gotten into Penn but if I do I will need to make a decision fast (I don't want to hold up any spots for other students) so any advice from current students would be so helpful and amazing! 😀 THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU in advance!

 

[iwannabadentist]

i honestly don't think you should rely on getting into upenn - im not saying you won't be able to, but just in case you don't, at least you will have temple to fall back on. if you are absolutely sure you want to attend either temple or penn and you have gotten into temple, then send in the deposit. if at a later date you do get into penn and decide to go there, wel then $1000 is NOTHING compared to what you will be paying for penn.

 

[aforgottenshirt]

hey iwannabadentist, I do plan to make my deposit regardless. Any opinions on these two schools?

 

[iwannabadentist]

iono much about temple but i loved penn. sure their facilities were a bit old but the education is top notch. i sent in my deposit there and am gonna attend most likely next fall!

 

[brengy]

you need to think that way..why a lot of upenn teachers teach at temple but not the other way around?

 

[flat4]

you need to think that way..why a lot of upenn teachers teach at temple but not the other way around?

Is that really your advice? Great logic. You should just figure out a way to pay that $100k/year for your residency with your terrible credit instead of giving useless internet advice.

To the OP, If I were you, I would send in that deposit, especially since you haven't even been accepted to Penn yet. But in case you get in, I will give you my biased opinion. I didn't go to Penn so I can't speak on their behalf but I did graduate from Temple and matched at my #1 OMFS program. The education and experience at Temple is as good as any. If I wanted to be a GP, I would have gone straight into private practice with confidence (this should be a serious consideration especially since you don't know if you want to specialize/may not match). If you want to specialize it's up to you and your drive. Temple will not worsen your chances, only you can with poor grades and poor board scores.

So for me, it would be based on cost. I'm sure Penn is a great school but I don't think the cost is worth it unless you absolutely have to have that Penn name to brag about to your non dental friends. And I don't think it's worth paying all that money so you can be with your boyfriend all day (who is otherwise 15 minutes away) and because they have pretty trees. But to each his own.

 

[og2]

Is that really your advice? Great logic. You should just figure out a way to pay that $100k/year for your residency with your terrible credit instead of giving useless internet advice.

To the OP, If I were you, I would send in that deposit, especially since you haven't even been accepted to Penn yet. But in case you get in, I will give you my biased opinion. I didn't go to Penn so I can't speak on their behalf but I did graduate from Temple and matched at my #1 OMFS program. The education and experience at Temple is as good as any. If I wanted to be a GP, I would have gone straight into private practice with confidence (this should be a serious consideration especially since you don't know if you want to specialize/may not match). If you want to specialize it's up to you and your drive. Temple will not worsen your chances, only you can with poor grades and poor board scores.

So for me, it would be based on cost. I'm sure Penn is a great school but I don't think the cost is worth it unless you absolutely have to have that Penn name to brag about to your non dental friends. And I don't think it's worth paying all that money so you can be with your boyfriend all day (who is otherwise 15 minutes away) and because they have pretty trees. But to each his own.

apologies in advance for not having anything of worth to say in this thread. my thoughts on cheaper vs ivy can be easily found if wanted with a quick search 🙂

i just wanted to say that i love reading posts like this. congrats, flat, for rocking out from a *gasp* state school 👍 🙂

 

[aforgottenshirt]

Is that really your advice? Great logic. You should just figure out a way to pay that $100k/year for your residency with your terrible credit instead of giving useless internet advice.

To the OP, If I were you, I would send in that deposit, especially since you haven't even been accepted to Penn yet. But in case you get in, I will give you my biased opinion. I didn't go to Penn so I can't speak on their behalf but I did graduate from Temple and matched at my #1 OMFS program. The education and experience at Temple is as good as any. If I wanted to be a GP, I would have gone straight into private practice with confidence (this should be a serious consideration especially since you don't know if you want to specialize/may not match). If you want to specialize it's up to you and your drive. Temple will not worsen your chances, only you can with poor grades and poor board scores.

So for me, it would be based on cost. I'm sure Penn is a great school but I don't think the cost is worth it unless you absolutely have to have that Penn name to brag about to your non dental friends. And I don't think it's worth paying all that money so you can be with your boyfriend all day (who is otherwise 15 minutes away) and because they have pretty trees. But to each his own.

Good advice 👍 thanks. I lol'd at the last sentence. Very true and I realize how silly I am to have considered this as one of my pros. It might be better to be 15mins away from him after all. And I'm not the bragging type so even having the penn name wouldn't do much for me.

Do you know anything about students specializing in orthodontics from temple?

And most everyone else is also telling me to decide mostly on cost since this is the thing that will end up affecting me the most in the end. Thanks for your advice!

 

[Flipper405]

I made the other choice (went to Penn), but it was very very close; Temple was my 2nd choice. The main reason I went with Penn was a gut feeling about fitting in better there, so you have to see for yourself. Definitely send in your deposit and see how you feel after your interview. Temple is a really great school as well, and I think you'll be fine either way. I agree about the whole boyfriend thing, though... You could even both live together in center city and just commute separate ways if necessary. They really are very close - that shouldn't be a factor in your decision.

 

[aforgottenshirt]

I made the other choice (went to Penn), but it was very very close; Temple was my 2nd choice. The main reason I went with Penn was a gut feeling about fitting in better there, so you have to see for yourself. Definitely send in your deposit and see how you feel after your interview. Temple is a really great school as well, and I think you'll be fine either way. I agree about the whole boyfriend thing, though... You could even both live together in center city and just commute separate ways if necessary. They really are very close - that shouldn't be a factor in your decision.

Flipper, thanks for your response. It's good to hear different viewpoints. Can I ask how you're enjoying Penn? I know of a few people in their second year there who say it's really hard and they don't have time for anything else. I'd like to hear the opinion from someone in their first year (which you are if I'm correct) if possible?

I know that dental school is going to be difficult regardless of where I go, and I'm not trying to go to the "easy" school, but I've heard that Temple is a little less competitive and I would feel more comfortable if students are helping each other out instead of trying to be better than each other. However, I've never heard an opinion about this from an actual UPenn student. Feel free to PM if you prefer, thanks for sharing your views with me! 🙂

 

[MiztiKatz]

I was in the same situation.

Being from Philadelphia you get the opinions of dentists about both programs. I was told by Penn graduates to go to Temple. In addition, I have had professors that teach in the Penn clinic with the dental students that I made the right choice and he would encourage his own child to go to Temple over Penn.

If you are from this area, most practices would welcome a Temple grad before a Penn grad (this is coming from dentists in my area, not my personal opinion)

I do want to specialize so I was worried at first, but I am glad I did not end up at Penn. At temple our restorative lab work and clinical experiences are far superior than Penn. What they do 1 of we do 3- and in the long run this will make you a better practitioner.

Both schools are good, Temple will, by far, give you a better clinical experience where as Penn would be better for research.

I do not regret my decision at all and I have no doubt that Temple will help me along my way to a specialty program.


Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

 

[flat4]

Good advice 👍 thanks. I lol'd at the last sentence. Very true and I realize how silly I am to have considered this as one of my pros. It might be better to be 15mins away from him after all. And I'm not the bragging type so even having the penn name wouldn't do much for me.

Do you know anything about students specializing in orthodontics from temple?

And most everyone else is also telling me to decide mostly on cost since this is the thing that will end up affecting me the most in the end. Thanks for your advice!

I can see your intention but being that you guys are gonna be living together, it won't be the end of the world. You go your separate ways and come home to each other at the end of the day. Couples do it every day. In fact, if you go to the same school, you might get sick of seeing him every second of the day. That said, this is my opinion but you asked for it. Take it with a grain of salt.

As for Ortho, my class was 6/6 I think. 2 or 3 went to Temple. Can't remember where the others went. We don't have as many people wanting to specialize but the ones that want to and are qualified get in. If you can't get good grades/scores, you usually aren't going to specialize no matter where you go. I don't know if the Pass/Fail system helps but I do know some program directors don't like it b/c there is no objective way to tell how a person is performing within the class.

Temple has one of the best clinical educations, UPenn sends a lot of people into specialties. So depending on your priorities...

General Dentist -> Temple
Specialist -> UPenn

This seems to be the cookie cutter generalization here on SDN, especially for those who don't go to either school. I don't necessarily disagree with your premise but from my experience, plenty of people specialize from Temple (and I'm not talking GPRs). If you are the right caliber student and have the desire, you will specialize from any school. If you can't hang and have poor board scores, you won't specialize from anywhere. Likewise, just b/c you go to Penn doesn't mean you won't be a competent GP.

 

[Flipper405]

Flipper, thanks for your response. It's good to hear different viewpoints. Can I ask how you're enjoying Penn? I know of a few people in their second year there who say it's really hard and they don't have time for anything else. I'd like to hear the opinion from someone in their first year (which you are if I'm correct) if possible?

I know that dental school is going to be difficult regardless of where I go, and I'm not trying to go to the "easy" school, but I've heard that Temple is a little less competitive and I would feel more comfortable if students are helping each other out instead of trying to be better than each other. However, I've never heard an opinion about this from an actual UPenn student. Feel free to PM if you prefer, thanks for sharing your views with me! 🙂

I feel the same way - it is very difficult, and I always feel guilty if I'm not studying. The thing is, this is not exclusive to Penn - dental school is just straight up hard. As far as cooperation between students, it seemed like Temple's atmosphere was more laid back than it is here, but it's hard to judge that based on so little time there.
Regarding the whole specialization/GP thing, I don't feel like Penn's clinical is lacking, rather that Temple's clinical is just outstanding. Whether you specialize or not will be a lot more about you individually and how much effort you're willing to put out. Don't choose your school based on "General Dentist -> Temple, Specialist -> UPenn " in my opinion.

I really think you should take your individual experience at each interview to make your decision.

 

[aforgottenshirt]

I can see your intention but being that you guys are gonna be living together, it won't be the end of the world. You go your separate ways and come home to each other at the end of the day. Couples do it every day. In fact, if you go to the same school, you might get sick of seeing him every second of the day. That said, this is my opinion but you asked for it. Take it with a grain of salt.

As for Ortho, my class was 6/6 I think. 2 or 3 went to Temple. Can't remember where the others went. We don't have as many people wanting to specialize but the ones that want to and are qualified get in. If you can't get good grades/scores, you usually aren't going to specialize no matter where you go. I don't know if the Pass/Fail system helps but I do know some program directors don't like it b/c there is no objective way to tell how a person is performing within the class.

Wait - Is temple Pass/fail? Or are you speaking generally? And that's really good that your class was 6/6 for ortho - thanks for the info!

 

[aforgottenshirt]

I was in the same situation.

Being from Philadelphia you get the opinions of dentists about both programs. I was told by Penn graduates to go to Temple. In addition, I have had professors that teach in the Penn clinic with the dental students that I made the right choice and he would encourage his own child to go to Temple over Penn.

If you are from this area, most practices would welcome a Temple grad before a Penn grad (this is coming from dentists in my area, not my personal opinion)

I do want to specialize so I was worried at first, but I am glad I did not end up at Penn. At temple our restorative lab work and clinical experiences are far superior than Penn. What they do 1 of we do 3- and in the long run this will make you a better practitioner.

Both schools are good, Temple will, by far, give you a better clinical experience where as Penn would be better for research.

I do not regret my decision at all and I have no doubt that Temple will help me along my way to a specialty program.


Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, MiztiKatz. I've heard from many people that Temple's clinical experience is better and that UPenn is great for research. How many dentists did you talk to that said they would prefer a temple grad over a penn grad?

 

[aforgottenshirt]

I feel the same way - it is very difficult, and I always feel guilty if I'm not studying. The thing is, this is not exclusive to Penn - dental school is just straight up hard. As far as cooperation between students, it seemed like Temple's atmosphere was more laid back than it is here, but it's hard to judge that based on so little time there.
Regarding the whole specialization/GP thing, I don't feel like Penn's clinical is lacking, rather that Temple's clinical is just outstanding. Whether you specialize or not will be a lot more about you individually and how much effort you're willing to put out. Don't choose your school based on "General Dentist -> Temple, Specialist -> UPenn " in my opinion.

I really think you should take your individual experience at each interview to make your decision.

It is hard to judge based on the interview alone - that's why I'm asking for opinions from current students, although that isn't that easy either because most tend to be somewhat biased towards their school. I don't know if I want to specialize or not, so I am not using that as a huge factor. I had my interview at UPenn yesterday, and it went pretty well.

I thought UPenn was nice and the students were nice, but at Temple I felt like I fit there and I'm not even sure why. I still love that Penn is connected to the rest of campus and in a nicer area, but in my gut I didn't have the same feeling I had when I went to Temple, that I could picture myself being there next year. I don't even know if I will be accepted to Penn, but if I am I will also take cost into consideration. And when it comes down to it, Temple will be a lot cheaper for me in the end. I probably won't hear back from Penn for 2-3 weeks at the earliest so I still have time to think.

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice and opinions 🙂

 

[brengy]

Is that really your advice? Great logic. You should just figure out a way to pay that $100k/year for your residency with your terrible credit instead of giving useless internet advice.

flat4,

First off: it was not advice I was stating facts.

Second off: from your point of view because I was leaning to Penn without cutting anyone down I was (giving useless Internet advice) instead you chose to cut me down, just because I have opposite opinion than yours and giving yourself the right to be baized to your school which is understandable but the hell with me or any one else and cutting me down, makes me wonder is this your own personality or you have an alien inferiority complex. What I am sure of, this attitude have nothing to do with your gender, race or type of residency you have, by the way a lot of male OMFS surgeons down to earth, but your arrogant catty (I am choosing my words here) attitude that you have, is just you and I am sure you are the one wearing the pants in the house.

Thirdly and this is for the respectable sdn fellows all gender, race and all type of residency, that I have a lot of appreciation for, the first and second points of my notes just and I am saying just for this flat4

And lastly Temple, is really prestigious school and In the matter of fact I really was in a situation to choose between Upenn and Temple I chose Upenn for just personal reasons but I still respect Temple and you can not go wrong in either/or

flat4 I feel so bad for those patients under your pathetic ignorant hands.

 

[flat4]

flat4,

First off: it was not advice I was stating facts.

Second off: from your point of view because I was leaning to Penn without cutting anyone down I was (giving useless Internet advice) instead you chose to cut me down, just because I have opposite opinion than yours and giving yourself the right to be baized to your school which is understandable but the hell with me or any one else and cutting me down, makes me wonder is this your own personality or you have an alien inferiority complex. What I am sure of, this attitude have nothing to do with your gender, race or type of residency you have, by the way a lot of male OMFS surgeons down to earth, but your arrogant catty (I am choosing my words here) attitude that you have, is just you and I am sure you are the one wearing the pants in the house.

Thirdly and this is for the respectable sdn fellows all gender, race and all type of residency, that I have a lot of appreciation for, the first and second points of my notes just and I am saying just for this flat4

And lastly Temple, is really prestigious school and In the matter of fact I really was in a situation to choose between Upenn and Temple I chose Upenn for just personal reasons but I still respect Temple and you can not go wrong in either/or

flat4 I feel so bad for those patients under your pathetic ignorant hands.

Let me sum up what you're trying to say with some "catty" attitude:

 

[browncrack]

Choice in dental school should be made mostly on $$$. You will find something good and horrible at any school you attend.

 

[Simiam]

The common statement that Temple has a lot more experience with preclinic and clinical procedures is true. Keep this in mind as well, though... Temple has already started renovating our Clinic. We are getting streamlined depts, central sterilization, and we will begin sending our lab work out as opposed to doing it ourselves. Why is that important to know? Our already high requirements for clinic are going to go up, because of the free time we will be getting from not having to bounce around as much and not doing our own lab work.

FYI Our new classrooms are legit 🙂

 

[aforgottenshirt]

Thanks again for everyone's advice. Just thought I'd let you all know I did get accepted to UPenn and ultimately decided to go to Temple! Woohoo! 😀 I am super excited with my decision and can't wait for next year! 😍

In case you care, I chose Temple for its cheaper cost, its great clinical education, its classrooms being new and beautiful and NOT underground in a windowless dark dungeon, the students seem to be more laid-back, not over-competitive and FUN (sorry Upenn) - I think I would have a better experience and fit in better, and I can still brag that I got into UPenn but chose Temple, the better school! 😛

The only things I'm worried about are safety and not being able to get residency despite "living" with my bf the past year, and um what to do this summer!