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Forced to choose between marriage and career?
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Buckeye Rx girl:
Are there any other marital problems? If not, are you saying that if your hubby agree to move with you to whereever you end up, you'll be happier in your relationship? Is the only problem of you being all sad and depressed because of your hubby not wanting to move?
If your answer is YES, then you're being selfish. I commend you on your ambition and aspiration to seek higher education, but moving around is not a fun thing to do. Your hubby may have his career and job set up and you can't just ask him to pick up and go. Since it's only two years for you IF you match, then do a LDR. Heck, you two are married so the LDR should be much easier then for a couple that is not married.
If there are other problems in your relationship already, then I would definitely evaluate your situation more carefully. If you're already having all sorts of doubts in your first year of marriage, sorry girl, but that's not a good sign of longivity! Bottom line, you can't ask your hubby to pick up and go just because you want to.
Y'all need to sit down and discuss what's the best option for the both of you as a couple, not for only you.
Are there any other marital problems? If not, are you saying that if your hubby agree to move with you to whereever you end up, you'll be happier in your relationship? Is the only problem of you being all sad and depressed because of your hubby not wanting to move?
If your answer is YES, then you're being selfish. I commend you on your ambition and aspiration to seek higher education, but moving around is not a fun thing to do. Your hubby may have his career and job set up and you can't just ask him to pick up and go. Since it's only two years for you IF you match, then do a LDR. Heck, you two are married so the LDR should be much easier then for a couple that is not married.
If there are other problems in your relationship already, then I would definitely evaluate your situation more carefully. If you're already having all sorts of doubts in your first year of marriage, sorry girl, but that's not a good sign of longivity! Bottom line, you can't ask your hubby to pick up and go just because you want to.
Y'all need to sit down and discuss what's the best option for the both of you as a couple, not for only you.
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I have to disagree with the above reply. I am a single female so I can't give the perspective of a married person but I don't think you should have to give up on your dreams. Many of my medical school classmates have spouses who are more than willing to go wherever they have to for their spouse's residency. I guess the important question is did your husband know that you might need to move for your job in the future before you got married?
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Yes, there are other problems. It has been a rocky year.
I don't think it's selfish to want a fulfilling career. My husband knew I was ambitious and wanted this before our marriage.
I'm just curious and don't mean to sound defensive, but why am I selfish for wanting my career of choice? Are marriage and career mutually exclusive? Is this still the 50s? And if I'm being selfish, isn't he too?
I don't think it's selfish to want a fulfilling career. My husband knew I was ambitious and wanted this before our marriage.
I'm just curious and don't mean to sound defensive, but why am I selfish for wanting my career of choice? Are marriage and career mutually exclusive? Is this still the 50s? And if I'm being selfish, isn't he too?
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It's all about compromise. I knew one couple (he was an MD/PhD and she was a PhD in physics). They "took turns" moving. If he got a job opportunity, they moved. But if he got another job opportunity later, SHE got to say yea/nea. And vice versa. This time, I got to choose where to go (the match...sucks). When my residency is over, I will most likely do a fellowship. BUT, it will be my husband's "turn" to decide where to go. This doesn't mean that I have no say (or that he had no say in my rank list). But we both have input. I ranked one place lower on my list (even though I loved it) because there were no job opportunities for him there. And I ranked a place I didn't like semi-high because HE wanted to go there. Turns out, we got a place that is spectacular for both of us.
With regards to moving: when I was a kid, we moved every three years. My dad's company transfered him a lot (and it was never a few hours away...it was another time zone). My mom was a SAHM, so she didn't have to worry about finding a job. BUT, they both worried about leaving friends/family behind. I loved moving (as a kid), but it IS scary. We are getting ready to move for residency and it is a PITA. However, if we didn't do it now, we'd never leave. It's scary, but sometimes you just have to take the plunge. If you never leave, you don't get to experience as many different things. I loved being able to see different places and meet different people growing up. My sister's husband lived in the same house since birth, and that is SO strange to me. But he loves travelling and up-and-moved right after college (1500mi away) and never regretted it (and loves his new home). Is your husband's career such that he can't have the same job outside of Columbus? Or is he just afraid to live somewhere outside of his comfort zone?
Dumb question, but didn't you discuss things like moving BEFORE you got married?
With regards to moving: when I was a kid, we moved every three years. My dad's company transfered him a lot (and it was never a few hours away...it was another time zone). My mom was a SAHM, so she didn't have to worry about finding a job. BUT, they both worried about leaving friends/family behind. I loved moving (as a kid), but it IS scary. We are getting ready to move for residency and it is a PITA. However, if we didn't do it now, we'd never leave. It's scary, but sometimes you just have to take the plunge. If you never leave, you don't get to experience as many different things. I loved being able to see different places and meet different people growing up. My sister's husband lived in the same house since birth, and that is SO strange to me. But he loves travelling and up-and-moved right after college (1500mi away) and never regretted it (and loves his new home). Is your husband's career such that he can't have the same job outside of Columbus? Or is he just afraid to live somewhere outside of his comfort zone?
Dumb question, but didn't you discuss things like moving BEFORE you got married?
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This is about as much about moving, as leaving the toothpaste uncapped is about the toothpaste drying out.
You are not asking him to permanently abandon his family and the exciting city of Columbus, OH. I am sure, that there are enough nutcases in Columbus to support another psych PharmD after you finish residency. If I get this correctly, you are asking him to come along for 1-2 years (or to accept a commuting relationship). If this is not something he is even willing to consider.....
It has been a rocky year.
Isn't it the FIRST year of your marriage ?
You are not asking him to permanently abandon his family and the exciting city of Columbus, OH. I am sure, that there are enough nutcases in Columbus to support another psych PharmD after you finish residency. If I get this correctly, you are asking him to come along for 1-2 years (or to accept a commuting relationship). If this is not something he is even willing to consider.....
It has been a rocky year.
Isn't it the FIRST year of your marriage ?
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Yes, it is the first year of my marriage. And guess what??? I came here for support and advice, but NOT for judgement. I understand that I might not agree with everyone's advice, but there is no need to judge me or my past decisions. Nothing can be done about that now. Unless you are in my exact circumstances you have no right to make judgements or condescend me or my marriage. It's not easy to admit that you have a problem and it's even harder to ask for help. When a request for help is met with judgement, it makes things all the more difficult. I appreciate everyone's response, but please post advice sans judgement from now on. Thank you.
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Ok, so advice it is:
- practice safe birth control
- continue with your school
- register for the residency match
- rank the programs according to the criterion 'will get me to my goal'
- go wherever the match sends you
- practice safe birth control
- continue with your school
- register for the residency match
- rank the programs according to the criterion 'will get me to my goal'
- go wherever the match sends you
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Then I think you need to sit down and decide by yourself what is more important to you - your career or your marriage. If your career is more important to you then go for it! If your marriage is more important, consider alternate career plans that would still make you relatively happy but allow you to be together. You're right, this isn't 1950 and you deserve to do what makes you happy.
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I'm upset about it now because what if five years from now I have to end it? The longer you stay with someone, the more you invest, and the more you stand to lose once you lose them. I guess my future is important to me. I shouldn't have to wonder if my husband is going to be there for me years from now....I feel I deserve to know that now.
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I think the first question would be: why is your hubby so bent on staying in Columbus?
Next, if he absoltely, positively won't move, would he object to doing the long-distancwe thing for the two years while you're in your residency? This seems like it would be a good option.
What if you tell him that if he'll move for you for just two years, you'll come back and settle down in Columbus when you're done? What's so great about Columbus? I've been there many times and I think it's a pretty boring town. You do have Easton now, but there's not much in the way of nightlife or a major downtown presence.
Next, if he absoltely, positively won't move, would he object to doing the long-distancwe thing for the two years while you're in your residency? This seems like it would be a good option.
What if you tell him that if he'll move for you for just two years, you'll come back and settle down in Columbus when you're done? What's so great about Columbus? I've been there many times and I think it's a pretty boring town. You do have Easton now, but there's not much in the way of nightlife or a major downtown presence.
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OSURxgirl said:
Just get a divorce, its simple. A first marriage now is like semi-serious dating, you have no property, no kids and nothing to fight over. Just end it... think of all the free time you have. You could study more, start a new work out program, learn a language and day dream about that cute guy in class guilt free. Marriage has pretty much been dragged into the sewer in this country, so there is no point in you beating yourself up to stay in something doomed not to succeed. Unless there is some religious, annulment thing youre stressing about, Im not sure what the big deal is.
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Read your original post to yourself. you are miserable. why did you marry this guy in the first place? He sounds like kind of a mommas boy. I'd divorce his ass now, before you get your degree, that way you don't have to pay as much.
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Figure out what it is you want. As you said, none of us should be judging you for the things you've done in the past.. the flip coin of that is: none of us are qualified to be giving you "advice" on the decisions you're going to make in the future.
It's like the others have said. Choose what you want: husband or career. This has nothing to do with feminism or your "rights". Your husband has the same right to choose whether he wants his career/family, or his wife. If you guys aren't in the same place relationship wise, then don't stay married.
Of course, I really think the solution of "getting out now" before waiting 5 years is the chicken way out. If you seriously cared about this *marriage*, the least you could do is take the "emotional pain" of waiting 5 years to see whether things (including your career goals) change.
It's like the others have said. Choose what you want: husband or career. This has nothing to do with feminism or your "rights". Your husband has the same right to choose whether he wants his career/family, or his wife. If you guys aren't in the same place relationship wise, then don't stay married.
Of course, I really think the solution of "getting out now" before waiting 5 years is the chicken way out. If you seriously cared about this *marriage*, the least you could do is take the "emotional pain" of waiting 5 years to see whether things (including your career goals) change.
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I hear you and feel your pain, my significant other/almost fiance and I had to end it because she couldn't see moving away from her family/friends/activities/area she was born and raised in for 4+ years, that and she saw how hard I would work in med school and new she needed more of my time to be happy. So, I feel your pain in the moving vs. not moving department, every day I wonder if I should leave school to make things work between us.
The best advice I can give is in the end we all are alone, so we need to make ourselves happy, and try and not have large regrets. Decide which you will regret more....
sorry that I cant make the choices any easier.
best of luck
The best advice I can give is in the end we all are alone, so we need to make ourselves happy, and try and not have large regrets. Decide which you will regret more....
sorry that I cant make the choices any easier.
best of luck
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There is a good point Llort has made.
If this moving anxiety is such an issue for you, get divorced now. You don't have kids, you don't have property and you don't have an income. A couple of 1.000 in court and attorneys fees will get you out of this. (if you guys are really made for each other, there is no law against remarrying 5 years down the line)
If you keep dragging him along for 5 more years, you are going to pay a lot to get rid of him then. By then, you are looking at a couple of 10.000 for the divorce and 2/3 of your expendable income for a very long time.
(btw. I asked my now wife on our second date whether she would move to europe with me after I am done with residency. After we had that out of the way, it hasn't become an issue ever since. While this might sound a bit extreme, the point is that you want to figure out these things about each other before you 'tie the knot'.)
If this moving anxiety is such an issue for you, get divorced now. You don't have kids, you don't have property and you don't have an income. A couple of 1.000 in court and attorneys fees will get you out of this. (if you guys are really made for each other, there is no law against remarrying 5 years down the line)
If you keep dragging him along for 5 more years, you are going to pay a lot to get rid of him then. By then, you are looking at a couple of 10.000 for the divorce and 2/3 of your expendable income for a very long time.
(btw. I asked my now wife on our second date whether she would move to europe with me after I am done with residency. After we had that out of the way, it hasn't become an issue ever since. While this might sound a bit extreme, the point is that you want to figure out these things about each other before you 'tie the knot'.)
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heech said:
It's not really a choice between having a husband and having a career. It's a choice between your current husband and the requirements of your chosen career. You can have both with a supportive partner. My only concern at this point is that if you are five years away from making this move, your interests may change as you progress through your schooling. I ended up choosing a medical specialty I never would have thought I would choose and surprised everyone, even myself! Be sure this isn't a possibility before you make any serious decisions.
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OSURxgirl said:
It's really hard to offer support and advice without knowing the whole story but I think I know what you're feeling right now. I was married for about 1 1/2 years. I basically got married, becuase it was "the" thing to do after 5 years of dating. Lots of parent pressure and friend pressure. I got accepted to pharm school in AZ and I had the opportunity to move away from all of the pressure. It was only then, when I got the courage to be honest to myself and my husband. I'm divorced now and it's been the best decision I could have made. I don't know how old you are. But I got married at 21 to a high school sweetheart and we were just to young too have an adult relationship. I wish you luck with whatever you decide, and if you want you can PM me.
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If you're correct in saying that his reasons for wanting to stay in Ohio are not actually the reasons he's given, then you need to talk to him again. It doesn't seem like he's actually opposed to your career goals (from the limited info in the post) but perhaps he is and this is his way of being passive-aggressive. I don't think your post gives enough reason for you to say you should get a divorce. Instead, I think you need to figure out what it is that actually bothers him (maybe you can talk to other ppl like his family or friends and see if he's mentioned anything?). Maybe it'll end up that things won't work out, but I'd advise against "jumping ship" at this point.
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OSURxgirl said:
I think this is the bigger issue. It may be that if the rest of your marriage were solid, he'd bite the bullet and move with you for a year or two. Instead of focusing on this issue (even though I know it's important), try to focus on the bigger issue of what the two of you need to do to have a supportive, loving, stable marriage. If the rest of that is there, you can probably work out this issue between the two of you. If it's not there, in the long run it's better not to uproot him and have him with you in Poughkeepsie or someplace feeling bitter and resentful.
I don't think everyone is judging you on this. It's just that there's a difference between the questions of "Do I leave a good marriage and a loving husband for my career?" and "My husband is not supportive and we have troubles. Is this current issue a sign, or the last straw, or what?" There's no shame in getting counseling in your first year of marriage, and I'd really suggest you go for it. If you leave for your career, you may always wonder if you did the right thing. If you bust your behind to make the marriage work, then whether you leave or whether you get the marriage you always dreamed of, you'll have fewer regrests.
Good luck!
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OSURxgirl said:
Yes, that you will be. Just accept it. You cant possibly escape people judging you, they will and the harder you try to avoid it, the more they will throw it in your face.
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Hi,
Just wanted to add my two cents, dont want to judge you in any way, just help. Please make sure if you are not sure about your marriage, please dont have kids, you dont want to add a HUGE responsibility to the mix. Also, yeah, why does he love Columbus so much, are you so sure about the fact that he doesnt see his friends and family that much? What does that mean? Also, is there part of you that would want to move away from Columbus at some point even if you werent in this pharm program?? Why does he need that comfort of columbus? You arent enough for him? He does sound like a major "momma's boy" type, or possibly doesnt "love" you enough to move away from his comfort area, is that okay with you, only you can decide 😡 . I dont have a good feeling about the whole thing...
Just wanted to add my two cents, dont want to judge you in any way, just help. Please make sure if you are not sure about your marriage, please dont have kids, you dont want to add a HUGE responsibility to the mix. Also, yeah, why does he love Columbus so much, are you so sure about the fact that he doesnt see his friends and family that much? What does that mean? Also, is there part of you that would want to move away from Columbus at some point even if you werent in this pharm program?? Why does he need that comfort of columbus? You arent enough for him? He does sound like a major "momma's boy" type, or possibly doesnt "love" you enough to move away from his comfort area, is that okay with you, only you can decide 😡 . I dont have a good feeling about the whole thing...
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Definitely don't have kids yet. Wait until you find the right person to have kids with. For some reason it sounds to me like this guy is looking for a way out which is really too bad. While it is true that a relationship is all about comprimises, it sounds like this has been a dream of yours for a while. If he really cared he would do whatever it took to make it work, whether that be a long distance relationship or moving. Unless he just landed a great job in the next Microsoft or Google he couldn't have that great of a job lined up. I personally feel that if the marriage is worth saving he will move with you. But you have to remember that it is a two way street and you may have to someday move back to Columbus even if it isn't your dream job. If he isn't willing to make it work and he isn't going to lose all that much career wise I would kick him to the curb. When I applied to Dental school my wife (my second wife, the first only lasted 7 months) told me that she would move anywhere I got accepted. Now we are moving 2500 miles away and I know she isn't happy about it but she knows we will be back eventually. Having the right person by your side during schooling is a must, just make sure he is the right one.
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OSURxgirl said:
There's nothing wrong with wanting a career. We all have to do something with ourselves before we die.
The real question is: Did you have any kind of agreements before you got married? If you did not have any kind of discussion or agreement about staying in Ohio forever than you have no obligation to stay there.
OSURxgirl said:
I like to be blunt and honest, which is why some people don't like my comments but if he did tell you that he wanted to stay in Ohio forever before you got married than your statement about being the ruthless career woman may have some truth (but who cares, stop feeling bad about it); however, if you never had any kind of understanding about where you were going to live than you should not feel guilty about moving to where you have to in order to advance your dreams. When you started pharmD school you made a commitment to a particular type of life that is not easy for women to have with relationships. I would follow your career and see if he follows you. A problematic relationship isnt worth giving up your dreams for.
I dont plan on ever being divorced myself, which means I would do what it takes to keep the marriage together. If I were your husband in the end Id give in and go with you, but Im not a normal guy.
In all honesty, what Ive noticed of career women is that if they want to have a man in their lives, they think they have to find a weak man--someone with nothing going for him and no future. I dont know if this is true but I think it makes it easier. Career men will also find it easier to marry a non-ambitious woman. In fact Ive been turned off to career seeking women because of bad experiences Ive had with them.
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Not to come down on anyone in particular.. but what a bad lot of advice.
I've been married for almost 12 years... marriage is VERY hard.. there have been several times that I've considered divorce... and that was just today.. ;-)
the first year of marriage can be extremely difficult.. even for couples that "make it work"...
people grow together and apart through any relationship.. especially in a marriage...I got married VERY young... by choice (not by force).. and waited 4 years before I had my first child.. I now have 2...there have been several things that I've regretted and several things that I wouldn't have any other way... My husband and I have 2 completely different ambitions in life... I only came into mine in the last few years...neither of us had 1/2 a clue when we got married that we would be where we are today or doing what we are doing today... I didn't think that I'd end up as a physician...and I don't think he thought he'd end up doing what he does... the point is.. people "change"...
life is difficult.. the biggest obstacle that any couple faces is communication... we HAVE to communicate with each other...
I know that it seems like you two are in TOTAL opposition right now.. but maybe it's not as bad as you think... I was convinced that my husband didn't want me to go back to school in the beginning.. but it turns out that it was mostly my insecurity talking... he's been one of my biggest supporters...I have raked him through the mud with all of this.. and I'm sure it's not the end of it by any stretch...I'm now asking him to move 10 hours away from his family so I can go to school.. and who knows what will happen after that.. where residency will be and maybe fellowship after that....he's shown some reluctance.. some of it obvious and some not so obvious... procrastination, delays.. etc etc on making plans and commitments.. and it's been extremely frustrating for me.. BUT... if I can detach myself from my own personal situation and consider his feelings, it's a big freakin' deal!
I am asking him to leave everything he has known for the last 12 years (except me and his kids) and go someplace else...and while it may be hard for you to understand or grasp or whatever his feelings at this point.. try to think about how he might be handling this....it's hard to not be selfish.. maybe selfish isn't the right word.. you're not doing it on purpose.... but you are thinking about what you want out of life.. and maybe what you want for the two of you and your futures by choosing the career that you've chosen... those thoughts aren't necessarily entirely self-serving.. but they are geared towards your own personal benefit... that's ok... but we have to remember that we are not the only ones that our choices affect... and try to keep that perspective in mind.. it's really really REALLY hard...I have the same problem..
talk to each other.. try to figure out REALLY where he is coming from... really try to listen... don't block him out.. if you really can't come to any kind of agreement or compromise over several conversations (or maybe even involve a therapist) then it might be time to cut your losses.. but IMHO, your marriage probably wasn't entered into lightly.. and shouldn't be abandoned lightly either...
Take care of yourself.. and each other.
I've been married for almost 12 years... marriage is VERY hard.. there have been several times that I've considered divorce... and that was just today.. ;-)
the first year of marriage can be extremely difficult.. even for couples that "make it work"...
people grow together and apart through any relationship.. especially in a marriage...I got married VERY young... by choice (not by force).. and waited 4 years before I had my first child.. I now have 2...there have been several things that I've regretted and several things that I wouldn't have any other way... My husband and I have 2 completely different ambitions in life... I only came into mine in the last few years...neither of us had 1/2 a clue when we got married that we would be where we are today or doing what we are doing today... I didn't think that I'd end up as a physician...and I don't think he thought he'd end up doing what he does... the point is.. people "change"...
life is difficult.. the biggest obstacle that any couple faces is communication... we HAVE to communicate with each other...
I know that it seems like you two are in TOTAL opposition right now.. but maybe it's not as bad as you think... I was convinced that my husband didn't want me to go back to school in the beginning.. but it turns out that it was mostly my insecurity talking... he's been one of my biggest supporters...I have raked him through the mud with all of this.. and I'm sure it's not the end of it by any stretch...I'm now asking him to move 10 hours away from his family so I can go to school.. and who knows what will happen after that.. where residency will be and maybe fellowship after that....he's shown some reluctance.. some of it obvious and some not so obvious... procrastination, delays.. etc etc on making plans and commitments.. and it's been extremely frustrating for me.. BUT... if I can detach myself from my own personal situation and consider his feelings, it's a big freakin' deal!
I am asking him to leave everything he has known for the last 12 years (except me and his kids) and go someplace else...and while it may be hard for you to understand or grasp or whatever his feelings at this point.. try to think about how he might be handling this....it's hard to not be selfish.. maybe selfish isn't the right word.. you're not doing it on purpose.... but you are thinking about what you want out of life.. and maybe what you want for the two of you and your futures by choosing the career that you've chosen... those thoughts aren't necessarily entirely self-serving.. but they are geared towards your own personal benefit... that's ok... but we have to remember that we are not the only ones that our choices affect... and try to keep that perspective in mind.. it's really really REALLY hard...I have the same problem..
talk to each other.. try to figure out REALLY where he is coming from... really try to listen... don't block him out.. if you really can't come to any kind of agreement or compromise over several conversations (or maybe even involve a therapist) then it might be time to cut your losses.. but IMHO, your marriage probably wasn't entered into lightly.. and shouldn't be abandoned lightly either...
Take care of yourself.. and each other.
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Marriage dynamics can be frustrating sometimes. Even though my ex and I had discussed where we would live prior to getting married, he came up with the idea one day that as soon as I finished school we HAD to move to Vancouver, WA and live within a few miles of his parents. I wonder if they pull that bit after they figure out we're not their mom.
Here is my advice:
Put aside all the expectations that the people around you have, your career goals, and all of that, and just ask yourself if he is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. If he is, you need to sit down with him and tell him how you feel and where you are coming from. (OK, well, that needs to happen even if you don't.) There are some things you can compromise on, but the residency match is not one where you can arrange for things to go his way. The choices are 1) he moves with you 2) you live apart for 2 years, or 3) you separate. Don't discount #2 as an option. If you decide you don't want to get divorced, then it's a very good way to give him a choice other than "move with me or I'll divorce you".
Here is my advice:
Put aside all the expectations that the people around you have, your career goals, and all of that, and just ask yourself if he is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. If he is, you need to sit down with him and tell him how you feel and where you are coming from. (OK, well, that needs to happen even if you don't.) There are some things you can compromise on, but the residency match is not one where you can arrange for things to go his way. The choices are 1) he moves with you 2) you live apart for 2 years, or 3) you separate. Don't discount #2 as an option. If you decide you don't want to get divorced, then it's a very good way to give him a choice other than "move with me or I'll divorce you".
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I agree with fourthyearmed and adennis. Sometimes you can't think outloud too early because things do change along the way. I thought I would end up out of state or at least 3 hour flight away from my family (husband, young child, severeky sick mother and brother) when I started pharmacy school. However, I blocked everything out of my mind and only focused on the application process. Miraculously, I ended up at a new school 1 hour drive away from home.
Marriage requires a LOTS OF WORK and it deserves your utmost attention.
If you can't figure out a solution yet, try to stay away from each other for a while so you can focus on your schoolwork and re-evaluate your relationship.
When you reach a deadend, just think that you are not alone and there are keys to all problems. Eventually you will find what's best for you.
Marriage requires a LOTS OF WORK and it deserves your utmost attention.
If you can't figure out a solution yet, try to stay away from each other for a while so you can focus on your schoolwork and re-evaluate your relationship.
When you reach a deadend, just think that you are not alone and there are keys to all problems. Eventually you will find what's best for you.
