Former neuroscience student, primary suspect in Aurora shootings.

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Why does this anger you?
Well, Yonko Shanks and calvnandhobbs did a good job at answering one of my issues with your post.

wow dude, you're saying his actions were ok because he was white, educated, and intelligent... Maybe if I'm lucky a white, educated, and intelligent man decides to shoot me and then it will be ok..

lol so what if he was black and poor it'd be different? What a great argument he's just like me (except for the whole crazy shooting 50 people thing) so we should be sympathetic to him!

Who care's if he's not in his right mind? Is any mass murderer in their "right mind" when compared to a normal non-mass murdering person? I don't really care if he was beaten every day when he was a kid and abused by his uncle.

Well, despite everything, he is still a human being.
He is a human being who has no value for other human beings. Why should his humanity be valued? I'm not on board with some others on this thread about public hangings or whatever, but you're the other extreme.

Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board.
Go back and re-read what you just wrote, and let me know if you're still 100% serious. So would you be with the people who can careless about him if he was a minority hobo?
There's a tweet going around Twitter that says "If he was Middle Eastern he'd be a terrorist, if he was black he'd be a thug, but he's white so he's mentally ill". It upsets me that you just proved this true. His class, intelligence, and sure as hell not his race has no effect on his mental stability or compassion for human beings. If you gave every one the access to the weapons he had you'd be surprised how many of them would be white, middle class, and university educated.
Oh, and in no way do I find him similar to myself. Disgusting.


Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.
Insanity? I don't really care, honestly. See, the difference between what he did and things like abuse, murder b/w people who somehow know each other, even rape is that there is a reason. A terrible reason, but it adds up. Someone with an upperhand got mad. Here we have a man who killed a bunch of strangers--of all ages!!!--in a place where he KNEW they'd be for NO logical reason. The only 'reason' someone could come up with would be the psychiatrists. But I don't even believe that he is completely not all there. As you said, he was intelligent. Intelligent enough to know where/how to get all the weapons, how to use them, where to best use them so as to cause such a devastation, booby-trap his apartment and join all the infamous killers.
He thought he was the Joker. If he was just a bit mental, he'd just dress up and write fanfiction like all the other people living in an imaginary world. He crossed the line by killing real people. I don't care what pushed him.


I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.
You seem to REALLY want an explanation. What would it change? Let's say his father beat him. Is he the only one? Does it now give the right to everyone with a rough childhood to cause mass murders? He said he was the Joke, should we now be afraid of every kid who was raised by a superhero/villain plot? I feel like you believe everyone is good until something pushes them. This is sometimes true, but if it were the case, he would have gone back and gutted his family or professors or killed himself. Not innocents. Shooting a 3-month-old is dehumanizing.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.

Go visit him in jail and give him a medal for being able to execute a better murder than that thug in the hood somewhere who just wanted some money, if that'll make you happy.


I tried to be as level-headed as possible. Please excuse any typos or grammar mishaps, and if I accidentally insulted you at some point.
 
As horrible as this is, and it is horrible, of 70 people shot, 58 lived. I know that's no consolation to those who lost loved ones. It amazes me, though, that thanks to the doctors, nurses, emergency personnel, and police who apparently rushed people to hospitals in their cruisers, the survivor total is so high. That's astounding and commendable.
 
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I tried to be as level-headed as possible. Please excuse any typos or grammar mishaps, and if I accidentally insulted you at some point.

Okay, I think you have misunderstood me to some extent. All I am saying is that this did not happen randomly, although it seems like there's no rhyme or reason to it. He didn't just "get beaten by an uncle." If getting beaten by an uncle is as prevalent as you imply, then there were obviously other factors involved. I think that simply because we are not privy to the knowledge of why he did this or how he got there does not mean that we should automatically write him off as crazy or that his actions are outside the realm of logical explanation.

You question the value of trying to understand this. What about the value of trying to understand the extremes of human behavior and psychology, possibly to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future? How can you argue against that? Is it SO extreme that it defies understanding? I don't think so, but we won't know if we don't try. Is his case so difficult that it's not worth the time and the effort? I don't know, I think it's worth the effort.

Look, I don't blame anybody for having a knee-jerk reaction to demonize or dehumanize this person, but wouldn't it be more productive in the long run to seek understanding?
 
Okay, I think you have misunderstood me to some extent. All I am saying is that this did not happen randomly, although it seems like there's no rhyme or reason to it. He didn't just "get beaten by an uncle." If getting beaten by an uncle is as prevalent as you imply, then there were obviously other factors involved. I think that simply because we are not privy to the knowledge of why he did this or how he got there does not mean that we should automatically write him off as crazy or that his actions are outside the realm of logical explanation.

You question the value of trying to understand this. What about the value of trying to understand the extremes of human behavior and psychology, possibly to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future? How can you argue against that? Is it SO extreme that it defies understanding? I don't think so, but we won't know if we don't try. Is his case so difficult that it's not worth the time and the effort? I don't know, I think it's worth the effort.

Look, I don't blame anybody for having a knee-jerk reaction to demonize or dehumanize this person, but wouldn't it be more productive in the long run to seek understanding?

I understand your statement, but I have one question in mind. If he himself told us the truth about why he did it, would it change the fact he killed 12 innocent people and harmed 58 more? I believe we shouldn't waste our times with this guy and give him what he deserves. You say that we need to understand why he did it in order to stop it from happening again? How? Mass murderers aren't just going to stop themselves from killing people because we know whats wrong with them.
 
I understand your statement, but I have one question in mind. If he himself told us the truth about why he did it, would it change the fact he killed 12 innocent people and harmed 58 more? I believe we shouldn't waste our times with this guy and give him what he deserves. You say that we need to understand why he did it in order to stop it from happening again? How? Mass murderers aren't just going to stop themselves from killing people because we know whats wrong with them.

As I said in my first post, I do not advocate for our giving him any clemency. We can seek understanding AND carry out the law. Who's to say prevention is not possible? We presently try to get people to become aware of possible cases of suicide don't we? We get them to look for certain signs, changes in mood/behavior, etc. and urge them or other people around them to call somebody for professional help. Can't we do the same thing here?
 
This guy is not relatable to premeds. He's" intelligent."

And tons of people aren't white or middle class in medicine lol

This fake joker needs life in prison and daily beatings

Unless he is schizo...
 
After reviewing James Holmes' Wikipedia profile, the suspected killer for the mass shootings that were so horrific in Denver (my prayers go out to the families there), I ask, why did he do it? I mean, this guy was a Phi Beta Kappa member, the whole nine yards. The first things I thought I would see, would be "under achieving or borderline student" or "un-athletic or un-social," something along those lines. Typically, when a student plays sports in high school, they get to hanging out, having a good time, things like that. I'm just trying to understand this guy, and I don't want to simplify the matter, but I really think he just had a massively rough time in his PhD program. Heck, not everybody is cut out for a PhD and its not all about grades. He might have had an advisor that didn't work well with him, felt isolated, and maybe didn't feel like a top member of the team. Its pretty hard to believe that such a top student would not be shining in the lab, and building acclaim from colleagues, thus boosting confidence. Maybe he was an extrovert guy in high school with athletics and the quick change made him extremely uncomfortable? Maybe the feeling of failure has not really been in his blood, and his advisor was trying to push him harder? Sometimes research projects are bad from the beginning, and not reachable, maybe he felt this way? There are no excuses for what he did, and he is obviously a very very sick person that if not deserves the death penalty, deserves to be kept away from people to harm, because he will harm again since he is pretty much at the end of the line. However, its just very strange that a person would make such a dynamic change in their life from being a winner to such a looser. Maybe he should have been in some other place in life? Maybe his father with all those degrees had a different personality than him, but pushed him to the PhD? Parents should always be careful about what they encourage their kids to do. Don't encourage your children to get an MD if you are not 100% sure they are really in it because they want to do it, and likewise don't encourage the PhD if your child wants to pursue a clinical career. This James person, said casually because he should be forgotten, obviously became very antisocial and twisted, I think he was in a world he was not ready to be in. I've seen a lot of kids in PhD programs (I was in graduate school for an MS), and yes some of them are very antisocial, and I almost feel a bit scared by them. The ones that really do well are totally balanced up and down, but for some advisors, that really push the 80-100 hour thing, I can understand that not everyone has the right healthy balancing act, and can get a bit weirded out. I suggest students should have strong suggestion to see therapists, life coaches, or whatever they need during graduate school. Some students are aces in classes, but that doesn't mean they are going to do well in research right away, and may get depressed. My professor said he was extremely depressed during graduate school, but somehow got out of it once he transferred and finished his PhD at another school (MS before that). If you know a student that has trouble in a lab or isn't working well, he or she is probably suffering from the grad school thing, and if anything they should be supported, so they can get over whatever it is, and move on to great findings down the road.
 
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