FP's working in EDs commanding EM salaries

[FMtoEM]

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So any thoughts on FM docs working in the ED getting paid as much or more than Board certified EM docs? Are things so dire an EM residency is no longer required??

Disclaimer: I completed an EM residency

 

[Belleza156]

Where is this happening?

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[startupquick]

Where is this happening?

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By the numbers isn't it like 40% of Hospital EDs do not require bc/be EM trained physicians. Which is an increase from previous years.

I stand by EM training. I think there is a real lapse in overall care when staffed by physicians not trained to deal with breath/scope we are exposed to in residency.

That being said, I've worked with many quality fm docs working in the ed and some not so good ed trained physicians.

 

[FMtoEM]

Where is this happening?

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I'm seeing this in many places especially with Locums companies. $250 to $300+/hr range. Makes us look really dispensable since the demand is great.

 

[mauricekenter]

Supply and demand. If they can't staff with EM trained docs, then who cares if FM docs get paid the same. It's not like they are hiring both EM and FM docs for the same job and paying FM docs more. If they did, then maybe you should ask for more

 

[deleted109597]

So any thoughts on FM docs working in the ED getting paid as much or more than Board certified EM docs? Are things so dire an EM residency is no longer required??

Disclaimer: I completed an EM residency

I think it's terrible. And at my sites, FM docs can't work, you have to be BC/BE. But it's a business, and as previously said, the supply of EM docs doesn't meet the demand.
Certainly FM docs aren't getting paid more for the same work, unless it's an RVU system and they're better at charting/coding (we know they're better at critical care time comically). So if the FM docs are more willing to go to the rurals, where the money can be higher than the cities, then yeah, it happens.

For the record, it also annoys me that there are people paid more this year to work once a week than I will earn in my lifetime, but that's what happens. Maybe if I had a better slider or fastball...

 

[BoardingDoc]

(we know they're better at critical care time comically).

Not really surprising. When you're EM trained and you're used to seeing emergencies everyday, the people who are really sick but not actively dying seem fairly mundane to you and you only bill critical care on your ICU players. When you're used to treating chronic hypertension and URIs, that CHF exacerbation who's getting admitted to the floor looks a lot more "critical." There are certainly people who qualify for critical care time that I suspect many of us don't really worry about managing.

 

[deleted109597]

Not really surprising. When you're EM trained and you're used to seeing emergencies everyday, the people who are really sick but not actively dying seem fairly mundane to you and you only bill critical care on your ICU players. When you're used to treating chronic hypertension and URIs, that CHF exacerbation who's getting admitted to the floor looks a lot more "critical." There are certainly people who qualify for critical care time that I suspect many of us don't really worry about managing.

That's exactly it. Which is why making us write it instead of coders deciding what is and isn't is ludicrous IMO. They can downgrade but not upgrade.

 

[sum dude]

Supply and demand. If they can't staff with EM trained docs, then who cares if FM docs get paid the same. It's not like they are hiring both EM and FM docs for the same job and paying FM docs more. If they did, then maybe you should ask for more

100%. If they can't fill BFE-Rural job w/ ABEM boarded, they then take FP doctors. Has nothing to do with training and everything to do with filling positions no one else will take. By convention, a FP-practice doc (or ABEM doc) working rural North Dakota will always make more than an ABEM-boarded doctor in New York city or LA.

 

[throckmortonDO]

FM guys from my med school came out of residency and are working in ED's mostly in rural locations.
Most signed with CMGs
making decent money.
if you are willing to go to rural locations you will make more than they do typically being ABEM boarded.
EM is in demand for now with difficult staffing options so FM's will continue to staff ED's.
I highly doubt CMGs replacing ABEM boarded docs with FMs. I think more or less they will increase mid-levels and as ABEM doc you will be more of a midlevel manager in the future, maybe like anesthesia.