Frenulectomy racket

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nimbus

nimbus

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www.nytimes.com

Inside the Booming Business of Cutting Babies’ Tongues (Published 2023)

Dentists and lactation consultants around the country are pushing “tongue-tie releases” on new mothers struggling to breastfeed.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“In 2020, a panel of 16 leading ear, nose and throat specialists published guidelines warning that tongue-ties were being over-diagnosed and that cheek-tie releases simply “should not be performed.”

“Dr. Scott Siegel of Manhattan has been cutting babies’ tongues for two decades, ever since he took over the practice of one of the authors of the 2004 article.
He said he sees up to 100 patients a week, charging $900 for a five-minute procedure to release oral ties.
In November, Times reporters watched Dr. Siegel perform releases on three babies.
Before each procedure, he met with the parents, listing what he described as tongue-tie symptoms, including spitting up, gas and falling asleep while trying to breastfeed.”



In other words, “tongue tie symptoms”=normal baby.
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nimbus said:
www.nytimes.com

Inside the Booming Business of Cutting Babies’ Tongues (Published 2023)

Dentists and lactation consultants around the country are pushing “tongue-tie releases” on new mothers struggling to breastfeed.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“In 2020, a panel of 16 leading ear, nose and throat specialists published guidelines warning that tongue-ties were being over-diagnosed and that cheek-tie releases simply “should not be performed.”

“Dr. Scott Siegel of Manhattan has been cutting babies’ tongues for two decades, ever since he took over the practice of one of the authors of the 2004 article.
He said he sees up to 100 patients a week, charging $900 for a five-minute procedure to release oral ties.
In November, Times reporters watched Dr. Siegel perform releases on three babies.
Before each procedure, he met with the parents, listing what he described as tongue-tie symptoms, including spitting up, gas and falling asleep while trying to breastfeed.”



In other words, “tongue tie symptoms”=normal baby.
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I almost fell for this because my baby had hard time latching on and multiple lactation consultants were strongly pushing for it. Our pediatrician was lukewarm about it, and our ob was surprised to hear that lactation consultants were pushing it hard. I looked up literature, and there was not a single conclusive data to support the practice, especially so early on.

I am glad we didn’t go through with it, and my baby has been completely fine.
 
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JiPo said:
I almost fell for this because my baby had hard time latching on and multiple lactation consultants were strongly pushing for it. Our pediatrician was lukewarm about it, and our ob was surprised to hear that lactation consultants were pushing it hard. I looked up literature, and there was not a single conclusive data to support the practice, especially so early on.

I am glad we didn’t go through with it, and my baby has been completely fine.
Click to expand...


I wonder if your lactation consultant had a kickback arrangement.

“One well-known dentist in Manhattan takes in millions of dollars a year from his tongue-tie practice. Lactation consultants who refer patients and assist dentists get paid, too. And companies that make lasers are also jumping on the trend.
It is difficult to tally the volume of surgeries, which are often not covered by insurance. But by all accounts the numbers are soaring.
 
turnupthegas said:
Our child had tongue ties and I was against it at first. However, he wasn’t latching well and feedings were painful for my wife. We elected to do it and everything was great after.

90k/week sounds nice.
Click to expand...

We also did the tongue tie procedure for our older child who probably didn't need it.. but we were worried it was slowing down his language and talking
 
nimbus said:
I wonder if your lactation consultant had a kickback arrangement.

“One well-known dentist in Manhattan takes in millions of dollars a year from his tongue-tie practice. Lactation consultants who refer patients and assist dentists get paid, too. And companies that make lasers are also jumping on the trend.
It is difficult to tally the volume of surgeries, which are often not covered by insurance. But by all accounts the numbers are soaring.
Click to expand...
I’m not a lawyer, but I thought kickbacks are illegal under federal law?
 
HalO'Thane said:
I’m not a lawyer, but I thought kickbacks are illegal under federal law?
Click to expand...


It is illegal for insurance cases and federal programs (Medicare/medicaid). For cash pay cases like these frenulectomies, anything goes. Makes me wonder how many Medicaid frenulectomies are being done.
 
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JiPo said:
I almost fell for this because my baby had hard time latching on and multiple lactation consultants were strongly pushing for it. Our pediatrician was lukewarm about it, and our ob was surprised to hear that lactation consultants were pushing it hard. I looked up literature, and there was not a single conclusive data to support the practice, especially so early on.
Click to expand...
Lactation consultant typically an RN - or less.
 
Many babies can't latch well at the beginning. Poor suck, inadequate milk production, etc. I'm not surprised that an industry has developed to abuse the system like this.
 
Not sure how I wandered over here...

I almost posted this article elsewhere. When I had my baby I ended up researching this heavily. There is some evidence there is some dominant inheritance, might explain why it was so routine for midwives. Back when, if a baby didn't nurse they died.

There are some specific descriptions of the nipple pain from tongue tie, and basically after comparing notes with my mother, figured out she had it, I had it, my sibling had it, and my child as well.

Anyone I have ever stuck my tongue out for, notes just how short my reach is. It never caused me any problems in life; but I could never become a lesbian.

My child a "posterior tie" and I took her to a really good pediatrician at a respected institution who was sorta the go to person (alma mater). There is a specific questionnaire that is used to assess if it seems an appropriate procedure, it was used in some sort of small study on the topic. If there's interest I'll try to find it.

There is evidence that the standard procedure with forceps and scissors is safer than laser. Also evidence of harm from pushing around in the mouth to "break it up." After a certain point there are gentle exercises you can do, or nothing, as more harm from being too aggressive vs less intervention.

Felt an immediate difference in the latch and saved my breastfeeding relationship.

I think there's a role for this as a real phenomenon for which this treatment is very beneficial. But it definitely seems abused. I just hope the pendulum doesn't swing too much the other way.

Also I don't have a good feeling about dentists doing it, but I could amend that depending on details of training/experience.

Also one state I know of, medicaid does reimburse.
 
nimbus said:
Also usually an activist. To them formula is more evil than Satan.
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Eh, I will say, and I don't think it's surprising in evolutionary terms, that part of "baby mania" or "baby infatuation" some women have also goes for breastfeeding. Some women just go nuts about it. It's been one of the things I've most enjoyed in life, of all the things I have ever seen or done. Seriously. It's insane what women will go through for it, and not just from a sense of obligation. And even when many women get old, you can see how wistful they still are about it. Some of them never get over it and hence the evangelizing about it. I'm the same way.

Sadly as a practice it intersects with other sorts of crunchy hippy stuff so hence the other forms of activist nonsense that many LCs engage in.
 
agammaglobulin said:
Our pediatric dentist recommended this. Fortunately, our Pediatrician essentially said it was bull****.
Click to expand...
That was my experience also with my first kid. She had some issues latching etc, but nothing that seemed out of the ordinary. Right away this talk of “tongue tie” came up, and pressure to get some procedure done. It sounded like bullshizzle (like back when they put tubes in every single kid’s ears, or took out everyone’s tonsils) and thankfully I pushed back on us actually doing the procedure. Kid turned out just fine.
 
Those lasers can cost 40K or more, I've seen some highly motivated DDS that do as many as they can to pay off the laser and supplement income. There are legitimate cases that need to be done, but it doesn't surprise me that many kids are over-diagnosed.
 
kazuma said:
Those lasers can cost 40K or more, I've seen some highly motivated DDS that do as many as they can to pay off the laser and supplement income. There are legitimate cases that need to be done, but it doesn't surprise me that many kids are over-diagnosed.
Click to expand...
It's always troubling when a basic procedure that can be done safely with very basic hand tools for little expense, gets an "upgrade" for expensive equipment by the industry. Sure, lots of procedures benefit in terms of outcome improvement, though not all. And others become a powerful incentive to do procedures for profit.

In general, the less profit there is in a procedure, the less likely it is done more than really indicated.
 
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