Fresh grad salary in California?

[gunnyworms]

Hi guys, just wanted your honest input to see if you guys would be willing to share your income (or a friend's income) as a newly-graduated General Dentist in the Southern California region in the following settings:

1) Corporate setting
2) Associateship

Also, from your experience, is it easy to be recruited to a corporate firm as a new grad in cali?

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[sobertiger]

When my friend started working in LA right after an AEGD, he made $300 per day. That was five years ago. Now he makes base pay of $700-800 per day plus production bonus. The rate depends on the office.

You should expect $300-500 per day depending on the area. That's pretty low even for a fresh grad but that's LA for you.

 

[Vicviper]

I started out in a corp job in So-Cal / Orange County right after my AEGD, there were a number available. They offered me $450 a day for the first 3 months, and then 23% after that. I however hated this job, haha. Do your due diligence and explore multiple options before letting them guide you into the lowest common denominator where they need people the most. When I was later an associate in Newport Beach, they wanted to offer me $325 or 25%. Its scary out there, making less than 400 a day will be hard to pay loans back with. Don't just jump at your first job offer. This was about 2-3 years ago.

I know what you're thinking, you really want to go back to So-Cal.... I did too, I didn't even consider other options, and suffered for it - it is very hard to start out as a dentist there, and not worth the struggle you have to deal with.

 

[Svart Aske]

The numbers posted here are depressing...

What schools like USC and Loma Linda are charging is unconscionable. And we wonder why there's so much crappy dentistry out there and why DSOs are taking over.

 

[321931]

First year tax return was about 110k.
Second year tax return extrapolated income to be about 120-130k.
Third Year 180k (moved states)
Fourth year 300- bought a practice went into debt.

If I stuck out in CA, prob would be hitting 110-130k still. If I stuck it out as an associate...I could see myself doing 180-200k max and working my BUTT off... anything above is just out of reach...just my opinion.

 

[charlestweed]

A GP, whose son is in the same class with my son, told me that he pays his associate $500/day + bonus. According to him, most dentists that came for the job interview, asked for a “ridiculously” high amount of 600-700. For these dentists to accept his offer at $500/day, he also has to offer them bonus when the production reaches a certain amount.

He also complained to me that it’s hard to find a good associate. They are either incompetent or don’t care about the practice. They show up for work late and go home early. They don't like treating hard cases and refer out to specialists. Because of their lack of experience, he ended up doing many of the hard cases himself. The reason he hires associate is he wants focus more on doing extractions and implants. He did OS residency for a year or two but then dropped out.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

When my friend started working in LA right after an AEGD, he made $300 per day. That was five years ago. Now he makes base pay of $700-800 per day plus production bonus. The rate depends on the office.

You should expect $300-500 per day depending on the area. That's pretty low even for a fresh grad but that's LA for you.

You're friend did an AEGD, and then went forward to only make $300 a day? I'm sorry, I'll put it bluntly: You're friend was an idiot. He was literally making pennies. Even as a new grad, with that kind of income, you can't survive.

 

[321931]

You're friend did an AEGD, and then went forward to only make $300 a day? I'm sorry, I'll put it bluntly: You're friend was an idiot. He was literally making pennies. Even as a new grad, with that kind of income, you can't survive.

I guess most of my classmates are idiots. Stayed in CA because "family." Nowhere near paying any amount of their loan off. It's doable but you have to put your finances on the backburner.

 

[sobertiger]

You're friend did an AEGD, and then went forward to only make $300 a day? I'm sorry, I'll put it bluntly: You're friend was an idiot. He was literally making pennies. Even as a new grad, with that kind of income, you can't survive.

I personally wouldn't work for 300 a day, but I wouldn't go so far as to call my friend an idiot. He just had different priorities than you or I. He was single, living with his parents and wanted to stay close to his family and friends. He went to a state school so the debt wasn't that high. 300 a day is 60-80k. It is hardly a low income, especially if you aren't paying rent. Besides, this was only for the first year or two.

 

[Daurang]

Twenty years ago when I view a census that showed more dental offices in CA than auto repair shops, I left and never looked back. My friends and relatives who stayed back are left far behind financially. How do you compete with $5 prophy, $20 composite, $395 implant, $200 scrp, $300 rpd...I'll never know!

 

[Daurang]

.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I personally wouldn't work for 300 a day, but I wouldn't go so far as to call my friend an idiot. He just had different priorities than you or I. He was single, living with his parents and wanted to stay close to his family and friends. He went to a state school so the debt wasn't that high. 300 a day is 60-80k. It is hardly a low income, especially if you aren't paying rent. Besides, this was only for the first year or two.

"60-80k is a low income". Jesus dude. Regardless of it being his first year, it is a VERY LOW income. Sure it's hardly a "low income" if you're a general manager at McDonalds or something. But objectively, this working for pennies as a dentist. A freakin DENTIST!

 

[sobertiger]

"60-80k is a low income". Jesus dude. Regardless of it being his first year, it is a VERY LOW income. Sure it's hardly a "low income" if you're a general manager at McDonalds or something. But objectively, this working for pennies as a dentist. A freakin DENTIST!

Like I said, for some people location matters more than income.

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[PaulS]

When my friend started working in LA right after an AEGD, he made $300 per day. That was five years ago. Now he makes base pay of $700-800 per day plus production bonus. The rate depends on the office.

You should expect $300-500 per day depending on the area. That's pretty low even for a fresh grad but that's LA for you.

$300 dollar per day?? woow! Thats a new low. I think even if you do cleanings all day you gotta make more than that

 

[theleatherwalle]

100k a year as an associate in a cushy private practice.
120-130k a year in a corporate mill

pick your poison

 

[Jueves]

I never understood the sentiment of making 90-100k a year as a Dentist in LA while being in 600k deep in debt. You’d honestly be way better off as a teacher at that point.

 

[oralcare123]

I never understood the sentiment of making 90-100k a year as a Dentist in LA while being in 600k deep in debt. You’d honestly be way better off as a teacher at that point.

Keep in mind that not everyone is in debt and even if in debt, not everyone wants or needs to pay it off

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Keep in mind that not everyone is in debt and even if in debt, not everyone wants or needs to pay it off

People in debt "don't want or need to pay if off"? I come back to the student doctor forum after 2 years and see stuff like this. Amazing.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I never understood the sentiment of making 90-100k a year as a Dentist in LA while being in 600k deep in debt. You’d honestly be way better off as a teacher at that point.

Too much logic for this thread.

 

[sobertiger]

I never understood the sentiment of making 90-100k a year as a Dentist in LA while being in 600k deep in debt. You’d honestly be way better off as a teacher at that point.

That's only for the first couple of years while you build up experience. You make much more after that.

 

[321931]

People in debt "don't want or need to pay if off"? I come back to the student doctor forum after 2 years and see stuff like this. Amazing.

I have many friends that decided to travel the world, and put things on the back burner.

Only live once right?

 

[oralcare123]

People in debt "don't want or need to pay if off"? I come back to the student doctor forum after 2 years and see stuff like this. Amazing.

You have no imagination. Some people just pay cash for their education, from whatever sources
others just pay income based minimum and enjoy present to the fullest

 

[sobertiger]

People in debt "don't want or need to pay if off"? I come back to the student doctor forum after 2 years and see stuff like this. Amazing.

I'm assuming he means that people don't want or need to pay it off "early."

There is zero reason to pay off your loans early (i.e. via the 10-year standard plan) with the income-based repayment plans currently in place. Not only do they limit the payment to 10 percent of your discretionary income, the remaining amount after 20 years is forgiven. Yes, you're taxed on the forgiven amount, but in the long run you will still come out on top since the return on investments (even with a conservative 5% annual return) and inflation (+2-3% per year) substantially decrease the real amount you pay back. You end up paying around half of what you would've paid with the 10-year plan; it's a no brainer.

 

[sobertiger]

It's definately not half of what you would've paid with the 10 year plan. So many classmates are about to be swindled with that IBR/ PAYE, ESPECIALLY, if they have 300k+ in debt at 7% interest rate (which is many dental students in many private schools). Because the FACT is, when you are only paying 10% each month, you are barely covering the interest. You legit might not even touch the principal for the first couple years. So lets say it's 15 years later, you are a big hot shot dentist pulling in 35-45k a month. Well congrats, now you're F**ked paying 10% of that (it maxes out to whatever your monthly would have been for the 10 year repayment.) Well it's all good right, cause it's about to be forgiven on the 20th year right? Cool, maybe like 200-300 is going to be forgiven. Now you're going to get taxed on that. BUT YOU HAVE TO ADD THAT TO THE INCOME you made with your practice and investments. Great *****. You made 400k as a dentist. 250k forgiven in debt. Have fun taking out another LOAN to pay off your taxes ON 650K. Slice this however you want buddy. Talk about how you come out ahead with your early investments. Reality is, MOST wont come out ahead. Most people will live hand to mouth. Most people who graduate dental school were just poor college students a few years ago who have no concept of investment or handling money. I've crunched these numbers a hundred times over. THE BEST way to handle the debt (aside from a military program or a public service program) is to consolidate/ and refinance with a private lender at a lower rate (3-4%) over 10 years and eat that debt away. Arguing for any other way, it's just BAD advice.

Well you've been crunching wrong, with no regard for inflation and investment returns. I'm not assuming some crazy rate of return here. I'm talking 5% (even index funds yield 6-7% so this is pretty conservative), with 3% inflation.

Let's say I make $10k a month after taxes (that's $180k pre-tax). Let's assume I never make more than that for the rest of my career. Then $1k goes towards the loan, and I have $9k to live with. $2k towards mortgage and utilities, $4k for living and other expenses leaves me $3k to put away monthly. After 20 years, that's roughly $1.2 million put away assuming 5% annual return on my investments. 10 more years would put it well over 2 million.

With $400k borrowed at 7%, I pay about $220k plus about $280k in taxes for the forgiven amount for the total of $500k. The nominal cost is indeed high but pretty good compared to what I would've paid with the 10-year plan ($570k). At this point my mortgage is probably paid off and I have decent enough credit to take out a low-interest loan to pay off the tax bomb. If not I could just put away an extra $500/month for 20 years (would come out to $200k at 5% return) to prepare for it. As a last resort I could tap into my savings. There are many ways to do this.

Private refinancing at 4% would cost $500k over 10 years, pretty much the same as PAYE minus returns, plus costs of inflation.

All things considered, the NPV for the loan is $460k for 10-year standard, $400k for 10-year private at 4%, and $260k for REPAYE. Maybe not half, but pretty darn good.

 

[DDS9994]

Well you've been crunching wrong, with no regard for inflation and investment returns. I'm not assuming some crazy rate of return here. I'm talking 5% (even index funds yield 6-7% so this is pretty conservative), with 3% inflation.

Let's say I make $10k a month after taxes. Let's assume I never make more than that for the rest of my career. Then $1k goes towards the loan, and I have $9k to live with. $2k towards mortgage and utilities, $4k for living and other expenses leaves me $3k to put away monthly. After 20 years, that's roughly $1.2 million put away assuming 5% annual return on my investments. 10 more years would put it well over 2 million.

With $400k borrowed at 7%, I pay about $220k plus about $280k in taxes for the forgiven amount for the total of $500k. The nominal cost is indeed high but pretty good compared to what I would've paid with the 10-year plan ($570k). At this point my mortgage is probably paid off and I have decent enough credit to take out a low-interest loan to pay off the tax bomb. If not I could just put away $500/month for 20 years (would come out to $200k at 5% return) to prepare for it. As a last resort I could tap into my savings. There are many ways to do this.

Private refinancing at 4% would cost $500k over 10 years, pretty much the same as PAYE minus returns, plus costs of inflation.

All things considered, the NPV for the loan is $460k for 10-year standard, $400k for 10-year private at 4%, and $260k for REPAYE. Maybe not half, but pretty darn good.

So basically living off of 6k a month after loan and saving the 3k for 20 years? Out of 4k you need to pay health insurance, car payments, malpractice, vacations, disability, if you get married ohhhh boy now you'e really gonna see what a tight budget is. If you're significant other decides to stay home and you have kids, on that budget you still be living a very middle classe
Lifestyle. And when you pull out that money after 20 years to pay for the tax bomb, you will be paying long-term cap gains on that another tax. And although 3k a month is good, you counting on your personal discipline not to take out of it for things that come up? And what if you hit a black swan? Ie after 20 years it' 2008 all over your tax bill is due but we hit major market correction at that moment with a 40% drop in equities and your 1.2 portfolio is now 720k? No retirement? There are lots of ways for this plan to go sideways.

 

[sobertiger]

So basically living off of 6k a month after loan and saving the 3k for 20 years? Out of 4k you need to pay health insurance, car payments, malpractice, vacations, disability, if you get married ohhhh boy now you'e really gonna see what a tight budget is. If you're significant other decides to stay home and you have kids, on that budget you still be living a very middle classe
Lifestyle. And when you pull out that money after 20 years to pay for the tax bomb, you will be paying long-term cap gains on that another tax. And although 3k a month is good, you counting on your personal discipline not to take out of it for things that come up? And what if you hit a black swan? Ie after 20 years it' 2008 all over your tax bill is due but we hit major market correction at that moment with a 40% drop in equities and your 1.2 portfolio is now 720k? No retirement? There are lots of ways for this plan to go sideways.

Look, I had to make a lot of assumptions. As you say, there are a lot of variables and I can't take everything into account. But why only assume for the worse? The return rate will likely be higher (7+%), as will the salary. The market might be up not down when I retire. If it is down I might just delay retiring because I have the flexibility to do that with this profession (I plan on retiring late anyway). In the long run the market comes back. Always has (post 2008 was no exception). There is a certain amount of risk you take with any financial plans, long term or short term. This just isn't that risky compared to the alternatives since I am not even assuming high returns.

The point is that REPAYE or PAYE is still better than blindly throwing a bunch of cash at the loan simply because of the opportunity cost incurred with the 10-year repayment plans (both private and federal).

I am already married with kids so I know what I am capable of living on. I just threw 4k out there for simplicity, but honestly 4k for just living expenses is more than enough (we have gotten by just fine on far less) and I don't mind a middle class lifestyle. And if I may end up making more than 10k a month, even better. If I end up making less..been there.

p.s. the NPV accounts for the cost of the tax bomb. There are many options for paying this off. Not really a big deal as long as I prepare in advance.

 

[321931]

Just my personal opinion. Buy a big practice that can service your loan debt in 10 years. A lot can change in 30 years. There is a student loan bubble and there might be changes in the future with how things are forgiven.

Best bet is to work hard and pay it off and not worry about it.

By the time you pay off loans and practice loans on a big practice in 10 years you will be comfortable with practice equity and putting money into retirement. I would gamble with that risk over the latter of putting things on the back burner. If that means going. 1 mil in practice debt, then do it.

 

[DDS9994]

Look, I had to make a lot of assumptions. As you say, there are a lot of variables and I can't take everything into account. But why only assume for the worse? The return rate will likely be higher (7+%), as will the salary. The market might be up not down when I retire. If it is down I might just delay retiring because I have the flexibility to do that with this profession (I plan on retiring late anyway). In the long run the market comes back. Always has (post 2008 was no exception). There is a certain amount of risk you take with any financial plans, long term or short term. This just isn't that risky compared to the alternatives since I am not even assuming high returns.

The point is that REPAYE or PAYE is still better than blindly throwing a bunch of cash at the loan simply because of the opportunity cost incurred with the 10-year repayment plans (both private and federal).

I am already married with kids so I know what I am capable of living on. I just threw 4k out there for simplicity, but honestly 4k for just living expenses is more than enough (we have gotten by just fine on far less) and I don't mind a middle class lifestyle. And if I may end up making more than 10k a month, even better. If I end up making less..been there.

p.s. the NPV accounts for the cost of the tax bomb. There are many options for paying this off. Not really a big deal as long as I prepare in advance.

True you cant account for everything, but I find its important to hear it and actually see it, that makes it hit home a little more, I tell you this as a person who has been on both sides yours and now practicing for 15 years. IT sounds like you personally have a handle on it, that's good but this is more for the others who have never worked a day in their life and think it should be pretty straight forward. Me I'm a scared straight type of guy. You now what investors called investing from 2000-2010,, " lost decade" of investing. If you invested 10K in a SP 500 index fund in 2000 by 2010 it would have grown to about 10,360 bucks or so, your annual rate of return was about .36 for that decade. It sounds like you have modest needs so that works in your favor, but for your mates who don't the reality may be quite sobering.

 

[DDS9994]

Just my personal opinion. Buy a big practice that can service your loan debt in 10 years. A lot can change in 30 years. There is a student loan bubble and there might be changes in the future with how things are forgiven.

Best bet is to work hard and pay it off and not worry about it.

By the time you pay off loans and practice loans on a big practice in 10 years you will be comfortable with practice equity and putting money into retirement. I would gamble with that risk over the latter of putting things on the back burner. If that means going. 1 mil in practice debt, then do it.

That the other issue to consider, 20 years is a lot of time to count on that type of Federal program to still be around, yes trying to knock out those loans IMHO would be best.

 

[321931]

That the other issue to consider, 20 years is a lot of time to count on that type of Federal program to still be around, yes trying to knock out those loans IMHO would be best.

That being said. I would not go into this job at the income stated. This is a hard as hell job. There is constant pressure, time constraints, business pressure, working on patients pressure...the list goes on. It's a hard job. I would do not do this job for "less" if that made any sense. There are much easier jobs to do. There's nothing wrong with working for a big company/state government jobs like engineer and just clocking in and out 8-5 with full benefits, pension, and 401k. If anything you come out ahead due to less loans.

 

[DDS9994]

That being said. I would not go into this job at the income stated. This is a hard as hell job. There is constant pressure, time constraints, business pressure, working on patients pressure...the list goes on. It's a hard job. I would do not do this job for "less" if that made any sense. There are much easier jobs to do. There's nothing wrong with working for a big company/state government jobs like engineer and just clocking in and out 8-5 with full benefits, pension, and 401k. If anything you come out ahead due to less loans.

Myself included, I would still be in the medical field but not in a field where I had to worry about marketing, facebook clicks, SEO, google reviews, etc. Don't get me wrong I love being a dentist, but there was a lot of things I hadn't thought about, I just had a monthly meeting talking about how to get new patients etc, ughhhhh, the mental acrobatics can drain you. If you are the type that has to be the boss and have very outgoing personality, hug everyone you meet, love making facebook videos and have a keen business mind you will do well in this field. I make a great living but if I had to go thru all of this and make some of the salaries mentioned I would rethink my strategy.

 

[lemoncurry]

300 a day as a new grad? It's time to do what most businesses are doing and leave California. I'm so glad that I did. Do IHS. Do FQHCs. Get out of your comfort zone for a few years. You'd be surprised at how quickly the time goes and how easy it is to deal with living in a more rural or remote area.

Or you can slave away for multiple dental offices at a pittance and deal with all the traffic.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Well you've been crunching wrong, with no regard for inflation and investment returns. I'm not assuming some crazy rate of return here. I'm talking 5% (even index funds yield 6-7% so this is pretty conservative), with 3% inflation.

Let's say I make $10k a month after taxes. Let's assume I never make more than that for the rest of my career. Then $1k goes towards the loan, and I have $9k to live with. $2k towards mortgage and utilities, $4k for living and other expenses leaves me $3k to put away monthly. After 20 years, that's roughly $1.2 million put away assuming 5% annual return on my investments. 10 more years would put it well over 2 million.

With $400k borrowed at 7%, I pay about $220k plus about $280k in taxes for the forgiven amount for the total of $500k. The nominal cost is indeed high but pretty good compared to what I would've paid with the 10-year plan ($570k). At this point my mortgage is probably paid off and I have decent enough credit to take out a low-interest loan to pay off the tax bomb. If not I could just put away an extra $500/month for 20 years (would come out to $200k at 5% return) to prepare for it. As a last resort I could tap into my savings. There are many ways to do this.

Private refinancing at 4% would cost $500k over 10 years, pretty much the same as PAYE minus returns, plus costs of inflation.

All things considered, the NPV for the loan is $460k for 10-year standard, $400k for 10-year private at 4%, and $260k for REPAYE. Maybe not half, but pretty darn good.

Most of your assumptions are wrong/bad. Therefore, all your "number crunching" is useless.
Assumption 1: Only making 10k a month for the rest of your career. Dentistry is so damn stressful. It's a difficult profession. 10k a month, that figure is genuinely disturbing.

Assumption 2: 6k towards all your family's living expenses. LOL. We picked one of the most challenging professions in the country. We didn't bust our ass through undergrad, DATs, dental school, boards to come out living with 6k a month. Get real.

Assumption 3: Putting away 3k a month. Yeah, okay dude.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you're going to be a great dentist. But you're certainly no money man.

 

[321931]

Most of your assumptions are wrong/bad. Therefore, all your "number crunching" is useless.
Assumption 1: Only making 10k a month for the rest of your career. Dentistry is so damn stressful. It's a difficult profession. 10k a month, that figure is genuinely disturbing.

Assumption 2: 6k towards all your family's living expenses. LOL. We picked one of the most challenging professions in the country. We didn't bust our ass through undergrad, DATs, dental school, boards to come out living with 6k a month. Get real.

Assumption 3: Putting away 3k a month. Yeah, okay dude.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you're going to be a great dentist. But you're certainly no money man.

Hindset is always 20/20...but knowing what I know now. I would never of pursued dentistry. But since I had a foot in, I made the best of it, and I think I do well for myself. But am I truly happy? No...But how many people are truly happy in their jobs? Not many. But I would vouch that alot of other people are less stressed then me. My close relatives and bro-in-law/sis-in-law clock in 8-5 with their bachelors degree earning high 5 figures/low 6 figures and they make it work. There's nothing wrong with clocking in and going to la-la land in your dreams, half assing your job, going out for happy hour and going home. Minimal debt, and live on a budget, and there's stress, but alot less on-the-job stress. It's hard to articulate. But...dentistry is a hard job and that's why I would never do this job for "minimal" pay. It's just way to hard to settle on such a stressful job and make little. You can never go to la-la land in dentistry. You are always focused and you are always ON.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Hindset is always 20/20...but knowing what I know now. I would never of pursued dentistry. But since I had a foot in, I made the best of it, and I think I do well for myself. But am I truly happy? No...But how many people are truly happy in their jobs? Not many. But I would vouch that alot of other people are less stressed then me. My close relatives and bro-in-law/sis-in-law clock in 8-5 with their bachelors degree earning high 5 figures/low 6 figures and they make it work. There's nothing wrong with clocking in and going to la-la land in your dreams, half assing your job, going out for happy hour and going home. Minimal debt, and live on a budget, and there's stress, but alot less on-the-job stress. It's hard to articulate. But...dentistry is a hard job and that's why I would never do this job for "minimal" pay. It's just way to hard to settle on such a stressful job and make little. You can never go to la-la land in dentistry. You are always focused and you are always ON.

Spot on.

 

[DDS9994]

Hindset is always 20/20...but knowing what I know now. I would never of pursued dentistry. But since I had a foot in, I made the best of it, and I think I do well for myself. But am I truly happy? No...But how many people are truly happy in their jobs? Not many. But I would vouch that alot of other people are less stressed then me. My close relatives and bro-in-law/sis-in-law clock in 8-5 with their bachelors degree earning high 5 figures/low 6 figures and they make it work. There's nothing wrong with clocking in and going to la-la land in your dreams, half assing your job, going out for happy hour and going home. Minimal debt, and live on a budget, and there's stress, but alot less on-the-job stress. It's hard to articulate. But...dentistry is a hard job and that's why I would never do this job for "minimal" pay. It's just way to hard to settle on such a stressful job and make little. You can never go to la-la land in dentistry. You are always focused and you are always ON.

When you go to la la land in dentistry for a month you find you still have to pay all your overhead except this month you don't get to take a nice check.

 

[sobertiger]

Most of your assumptions are wrong/bad. Therefore, all your "number crunching" is useless.
Assumption 1: Only making 10k a month for the rest of your career. Dentistry is so damn stressful. It's a difficult profession. 10k a month, that figure is genuinely disturbing.

Assumption 2: 6k towards all your family's living expenses. LOL. We picked one of the most challenging professions in the country. We didn't bust our ass through undergrad, DATs, dental school, boards to come out living with 6k a month. Get real.

Assumption 3: Putting away 3k a month. Yeah, okay dude.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you're going to be a great dentist. But you're certainly no money man.

First of all, I don't understand why you don't understand everybody has different needs/wants. 10k after taxes means 180k. That's really not that bad. Might I end up making more? Sure and that is great. But I really would be just fine with that income. Why is that so difficult to swallow?

Secondly, what's so complicated about paying 500k over 20 years vs. paying it over 10?

Do you know how much you would have to pay monthly to pay back 400k over ten years at 4% interest? First of all, it would be 460k after four years since you have to take 7% interest into account during your school years.

Let's say you refinance your 460k as soon as you get out of school at 4%. That's 4.6k per month. At 3%? 4.4k. Compare that with the 1.5k (1k + 500 put away for the tax bomb) payment I'd be making with PAYE. That is around 3k cash that I could use to invest, spend, etc. If I took the 3k and invested at 5% return, it would be 475k after ten years. There is just no comparison.

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[321931]

Nothing wrong with what you just said, if only it were that easy. It’s sorta like saying you can do an marathon when in reality you are doing an Ironman and in the end you end up in the same spot as a 5k runner. If that makes sense.

 

[oralcare123]

So basically California is not a good start for people with large debt and very low production potential, but a nice place to live in

 

[lemoncurry]

So basically California is not a good start for people with large debt and very low production potential, but a nice place to live in

Correction: it's a nice place to *look at*, it's not really a nice place to live.

 

[321931]

I know this is an internet forum, but it would be great if you could put a little more effort into proof-reading your posts. Thanks!

Lol. Ok. I haven't written anything graded for the past 10 years. Sorry bud! Not that it matters.

Let's try this again:

Imagine that you signed up for a marathon. But in reality, you ended up doing an Ironman, and in the end, you will end up in the same spot as a 5k runner.

So the marathon represents your dental career. The Ironman represents a Cardiac-Surgeon career (4 years of undergrad, 4 years of graduate, 3+ of fellowship). The 5k runner represents your plumber/tradesman/ups guy.

So in the end of your career. You end up in the same spot as a 5k/plumber/tradesmen. Worth it or not is up to you.

 

[786783]

That being said. I would not go into this job at the income stated. This is a hard as hell job. There is constant pressure, time constraints, business pressure, working on patients pressure...the list goes on. It's a hard job. I would do not do this job for "less" if that made any sense. There are much easier jobs to do. There's nothing wrong with working for a big company/state government jobs like engineer and just clocking in and out 8-5 with full benefits, pension, and 401k. If anything you come out ahead due to less loans.

Can you elaborate on these "full benefits, pension, and 401k"?

 

[DDS9994]

In the words of Marco from Tropoja.... “good luck”


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I love that movie " Taken" I use that line all the time. LOL

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

So in the end of your career. You end up in the same spot as a 5k/plumber/tradesmen. Worth it or not is up to you.

I have many dear friends and family who perform trade jobs (and I came from that world), but I'm frankly amazed how often I hear this argument on here regarding the viability of the doctor/dentist route. Either I'm a raging egomaniac or half the people on this forum are being a little dishonest to imply that they'd be equally happy with both a doctorate career and one of these others if all else were equal (say, a breakeven point at 50).

I dunno what percentage of this forum spent any time doing blue collar work, but I'd love to know where some of the magical/happy/low stress jobs they're talking about were when I was working for less than their hygienist performing manual labor. And if you think a high percentage of people are rude to their dentist, you should try a couple weeks as "just" a blue collar worker. Not the same universe.

Otoh, I do wholeheartedly endorse making fun of the socal devotees who willingly *make* it so that all else is equal when the outlook could be much much rosier on the doc/dentist side.

 

[DMD-DOC]

When my friend started working in LA right after an AEGD, he made $300 per day. That was five years ago. Now he makes base pay of $700-800 per day plus production bonus. The rate depends on the office.

You should expect $300-500 per day depending on the area. That's pretty low even for a fresh grad but that's LA for you.

Your friend started off making less than most hygienist. I feel bad for him. SMH, Stay away from the corporate mill.