from AM- worth staying in residency?

[samsoniter]

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Thought I would transfer this thread topic from aunt minnie and see if the SDN community had anything different to say.
BASICALLY: if you were early n your rads residency and could possible switch out, to say derm (unlikely) or hospitalist (seems easier) would you? Have things gotten so bad, and all your seniors and fellows can't find jobs? Has anyone heard from attendings/fellow/PP rads that you should get out now?! jump ship before it goes completely under?

DISCLAIMER: I don't really have an opinion, but am early enough in training where switching is still feasible.

 

[fizzle]

From my anecdotal experience, it seems to be the opposite. I've met many radiology residents on the trail who switched in from another specialty, and I know of another current pediatrics resident who plans to switch to radiology. I haven't met or heard of anyone trying to transfer out of radiology into something else, though.

 

[ar2388]

i personally do not want to do anything but radiology. and i would rather work hard in residency, try to publish more, do research, go to conferences, and really give it my all to maximize my chances of getting a job instead of dealing with patients.

 

[cowme]

If I could see myself doing any other field, I would switch in a heartbeat. But I really love what I do day in and day out, and I think I would be miserable in any other field.

The job market really is terrible though, and has been for 4 years. It actually looks like its getting even worse this year.

 

[badasshairday]

It actually looks like its getting even worse this year.

I hope that is not true.

 

[cowme]

I've been following the ACR job postings closely since I applied.

After an initial upswing, new postings have completely stopped of late. 150 total postings (down from 250 6 months ago).

For comparison, there were ~800 postings back in 2005, or so I am told.

 

[XerxesOfPersia]

Hard for me to say since I haven't started R1 yet. I chose rads for a multitude of reasons (limited patient contact, intellectual stimulation, new technologies, just to name a few). I'm confident that I made the right choice and I'm prepared to work hard and do what it takes in residency to become successful.

 

[XerxesOfPersia]

i hope that is not true.

+1

 

[shark2000]

i personally do not want to do anything but radiology. and i would rather work hard in residency, try to publish more, do research, go to conferences, and really give it my all to maximize my chances of getting a job instead of dealing with patients.

If you think hard working during residency or publications per se can land you a job in pp, you are way way behind the game. Who cares whether you have written 10 papers on an MR pulse sequence that even does not exist in real world?

 

[fizzle]

If you think hard working during residency or publications per se can land you a job in pp, you are way way behind the game. Who cares whether you have written 10 papers on an MR pulse sequence that even does not exist in real world?

Academic institutions?

 

[DrBB]

Jeez....is the job market really that bad that people in residencies are considering switching? It seems like the current state of affairs in radiology is being overblown. I looked at indeed.com and saw plenty of rads jobs. Is it really that bad???

 

[shark2000]

Job market is very bad to terrible.

You may switch to any other field. But is there any guarantee that those fields will not become even worse than current rad situation in 7-8 years when you are done? In many other fields also the job market is not as rosy as you picture here.

I had a radiology rotation during my MS4 about 7 years ago. I am in a very desirable location. I can clearly remember it was August or September before the Application time. All of the fellows had 5-6 job offers just a few blocks away and one of the fellows was telling me that he has wasted his time doing a fellowship because even without fellowship he can land a very good job. I know half of those people now. These days people with even two fellowship have one or two job offer 300-400 miles away if they are lucky.

Still this rapid change is unbelievable to me, but happened. I don't know what the exact reason is. The volume is for sure higher than 7 years ago, though may have not increased as fast. Probably it is mostly because each rad is reading more today and also the older rads are not retiring. You need at least 1000 people to retire in order to be able to have job for everybody.

But in addition, I do think the stressful nature of the environment and uncertainty has added to problem. Many groups are not hiring and many other prefer to have locums or a local person they know to cover extra studies.

Despite what old rads say, the whole system needs a fundamental change. Going towards hospital employee model is definitely better choice for newer graduates. It will level the income of senior and junior people with a more fair package. Old rads and senior partners are against it because it redistributes the money they make to everybody.

I think the job market will become better in the future. But even if does not happen, what you can do? Is there any guarantee that job market will be good for hospitalists in 10 years?

Thanks you

 

[shark2000]

Jeez....is the job market really that bad that people in residencies are considering switching? It seems like the current state of affairs in radiology is being overblown. I looked at indeed.com and saw plenty of rads jobs. Is it really that bad???

You will find a job. But the problem is the generation of people who are in fellowship now started their residency with the expectation of starting salary of 400K with a 8-5 job across the street. Today the jobs are there, but are way way different from above.

 

[omarsaleh66]

I think the job market is bad, but me and my friend have not had problems securing jobs in desirable cities. We are both currently IR fellows and we had no problems getting interviews. I signed a contract back in Sept and my friend just signed one and had he rejected other offers. The key reasons we got the jobs over other applicants was that we had 1) licenses in the state that the job was offered. 2) We had radiology moonlighting experience giving final reads during our senior years in residency (this helps because groups want someone who has experience in reading 70-120 studies / day. We did not train at a top tier academic program and private groups really didnt care. The 2 things above seemed much more important to them. This is regarding private practice jobs only.

In terms of if I would do something else, no way. Maybe vascular surgery or cards because it is like IR and I enjoy catheter work and imaging which the other 2 specialites also do. Although I do not like long open surgery. Even in long IR cases, I want to shoot myself. I have moonlighted as a ER and hospitalist and I didnt enjoy it as much as DR or IR. The cerebral aspect of radiology is fun and I really enjoy knowing so much about everything. A 5 year radiology residency will teach u so much that it is a truly great feeling to be able to look at an image and give the diagnosis or disease process.

In my opinion, I would not change over to another specialty, but I would try to be well rounded and strong clinically and start the job hunt early so i would have as many options as possible so I could get a job easily in this tough market.

 

[fizzle]

But is there any guarantee that those fields will not become even worse than current rad situation in 7-8 years when you are done? In many other fields also the job market is not as rosy as you picture here.
...

Is there any guarantee that job market will be good for hospitalists in 10 years?

Guarantee? No. But probability-wise? Yes. Other competitive specialties will likely continue to have a decent job market because they train a relatively small number of residents per year, and it is not possible to get much more efficient seeing patients than it is to read more studies. Nor is it as likely that a 65-year-old will continue doing surgeries as he/she is to read radiology studies. Nor is it possible in other fields to get board-certified after just doing a fellowship in the US (after a residency in some other country).

 

[shark2000]

Guarantee? No. But probability-wise? Yes. Other competitive specialties will likely continue to have a decent job market because they train a relatively small number of residents per year, and it is not possible to get much more efficient seeing patients than it is to read more studies. Nor is it as likely that a 65-year-old will continue doing surgeries as he/she is to read radiology studies. Nor is it possible in other fields to get board-certified after just doing a fellowship in the US (after a residency in some other country).

Though I do not deny that rads job market is bad. But half of other specialties are not doing better than us. Go and check yourself how senior partners in Cards, OB-Gyn, many surgical sub-specialties, .... hire newbies for only scut work and night coverage and dumping tough cases on them without making them partner. Yes, they may have higher number of job advertisements on paper, but go and see the quality of these jobs. When my vascular surgeon friend finds a job in my hospital for just covering the angio call, but no work during day, I think probably the job market for IR guys is better.

 

[Taurus]

Radiology is still a great field. Just be aware of what the demand is if you want to have the best shot at lining up a position. IR and mammo have the best job prospects right now. That could change in a few years. MSK was hot for a while but it has cooled off a lot. Neuro has been in a funk for a while. The ACR predicts body to be the next hot field. We'll see.

 

[samsoniter]

Great, for the record I am going to start listening to SDN forums more, as the response has been near the exact opposite of AM. I concur that rads is extremely satisfying and I am not sure I would be happy in other specialties, plus I strongly feel the market must turn around at some point....imaging is definitely becoming more commonplace and surely we will need docs to interpret (a big plus is I don't see non physicians encroaching on our turf as is rampant in GAS and primary care).
Thanks everyone!

 

[ar2388]

If you think hard working during residency or publications per se can land you a job in pp, you are way way behind the game. Who cares whether you have written 10 papers on an MR pulse sequence that even does not exist in real world?

oh i was deifnitely not thinking about PP. im not very interested in PP and want to stay in a hospital/academic setting

 

[EeePC1005PR]

if you were early n your rads residency and could possible switch out, to say derm (unlikely) or hospitalist (seems easier) would you? Have things gotten so bad, and all your seniors and fellows can't find jobs? Has anyone heard from attendings/fellow/PP rads that you should get out now?! jump ship before it goes completely under?

No.
No.
No.
No.

Radiology is a good ship, but one that should protect itself better so other ships don't keep taking away our weapons.

 

[greg1184]

Speaking of AM, the forums are a disaster this year. They can't even handle a reviews thread properly. I am afraid to create a post your ROL on that site.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Speaking of AM, the forums are a disaster this year. They can't even handle a reviews thread properly. I am afraid to create a post your ROL on that site.

Haha...AM is radiology's version of a trashy reality show, raw and uncut.

 

[shark2000]

I used to read AM when I was a medical student. Even in those days when radiology jobs were all over the place with huge starting salaries, those guys were talking about doom and gloom.

Never ever believe somebody in a random forum (including me).

 

[ar2388]

yea wtf is up with AM? those ppl are nuts!!