Full Tuition Scholarships

[Rachapkis]

I am aware of a couple of full tuition scholarships (e.g., Geffen and Perelman). And, of course, NYU is providing free tuition for all students. However, I have seen a fair number of people say that they received a full COA scholarship at other schools. What percentage of medical students receive a full tuition or better offer to attend medical school? Is the percentage fairly small, say under 10%, or do a decent percentage of applicants receive such offers, say 25%?

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[Isoval]

I am aware of a couple of full tuition scholarships (e.g., Geffen and Perelman). However, I have seen a fair number of people say that they received a full COA scholarship at various schools. What percentage of medical students receive a full tuition or better offer to attend medical school? Is the percentage fairly small, say under 10%, or do a decent percentage of applicants receive such offers, say 25%?

I’d imagine easily under 10%.

 

[965978]

It depends from school to school as well as year to year (the latter depending on available recruitment funds). However, top schools are usually the ones giving out hefty scholarships.

If you look at MSAR, average indebtness for top schools is dramatically lower than national averages, suggesting a high proportion of students getting scholarships.

 

[camnewton1]

On SDN it seems like every other person has a full tuition scholarship or full COA sscholarship. It’s definitely very rare in the grand scheme of things. At T20 schools which are generally very very generous with need based and merit aid, I’d estimate maybe 10-20% have some of these very generous scholarships. However, at your standard Med school, it’s definitely less than 5%.

 

[deleted962973]

On SDN it seems like every other person has a full tuition scholarship or full COA sscholarship. It’s definitely very rare in the grand scheme of things. At T20 schools which are generally very very generous with need based and merit aid, I’d estimate maybe 10-20% have some of these very generous scholarships. However, at your standard Med school, it’s definitely less than 5%.

lol agreed, the number of Geffens and full COAs on the X vs Y board is insane. I know at NYU full COA goes to 10% of the class and at Penn, full tuition scholarships go to only 25 students. I’m not sure how the numbers stack up at other schools who give merit aid (Chicago and Vandy come to mind).

 

[965978]

lol agreed, the number of Geffens and full COAs on the X vs Y board is insane. I know at NYU full COA goes to 10% of the class and at Penn, full tuition scholarships go to only 25 students. I’m not sure how the numbers stack up at other schools who give merit aid (Chicago and Vandy come to mind).

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but a significant number of the people making X vs Y threads and claiming to get full tuition scholarships from multiple T20s are very new users. In fact, for some of them it’s their very first post.

I honestly wonder if any of those threads are just trolls trying to get attention. I could be wrong and they could all be genuine. It could just be that they made a new account for anonymity. I guess we’ll never know.

 

[deleted962973]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but a significant number of the people making X vs Y threads and claiming to get full tuition scholarships from multiple T20s are very new users. In fact, for some of them it’s their very first post.

I honestly wonder if any of those threads are just trolls trying to get attention. I could be wrong and they could all be genuine. I guess we’ll never know.

Lmao I’ve seen a good # of rejects come back to school specific threads and talk trash about the school while pretending to be current students. So I definitely think some ppl on SDN are coo coo for Cocoa Puffs. Still, given the nature of this forum, there’s going to be overrepresentation of the top performing students each cycle.

 

[camnewton1]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but a significant number of the people making X vs Y threads and claiming to get full tuition scholarships from multiple T20s are very new users. In fact, for some of them it’s their very first post.

I honestly wonder if any of those threads are just trolls trying to get attention. I could be wrong and they could all be genuine. I guess we’ll never know.

Eh my guess is that their genuine, probably people who've been lurking for a while. It seems kind of farfetched that people would come to a random forum for attention, but that's just my opinion.

Unless someone came out and said something like they got a full merit scholarship from UCSF, for the most part things on the School X v. Y thread are definitely realistic.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

If you are from low SES and you get an acceptance to top20, aren’t you pretty much guaranteed full tuition scholarship based on financial need? Seems like that was true in my case this cycle. Many top schools also focus on need based sholarships and not necessary merit. Edited

 

[deleted962973]

If you are from low SES and you get an acceptance to top20, aren’t you pretty much guaranteed full tuition scholarship based on financial need? Seems like that was true in my case this cycle. Many top schools also focus on need based sholarships and not necessary merit. Edited

I think they’re only referring to merit aid. Not sure tho.

 

[scarletgirl777]

It depends from school to school as well as year to year (the latter depending on available recruitment funds). However, top schools are usually the ones giving out hefty scholarships.

If you look at MSAR, average indebtness for top schools is dramatically lower than national averages, suggesting a high proportion of students getting scholarships.

More like suggesting a high proportion of parental aid.
Some schools are giving merit aid to a select few yes but this is rare. The top private schools with big endowments are giving generous scholarships to students from families who are middle or even upper middle class though (making less than 100-200k).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I believe 20% of the class at UCLA receive Geffen. Besides Penn, NYU and UCLA what other schools give full tuition scholarships?

 

[camnewton1]

I believe 20% of the class at UCLA receive Geffen. Besides Penn, NYU and UCLA what other schools give full tuition scholarships?

Cleveland Clinic Lerner, U Chicago, Vandy, Northwestern, Michigan, Wash U (mostly half tuition scholarships), Duke - these are all based on merit.

Need based full scholarships may be even more generous as they can cover full COA at certain schools, such as Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell.

These are most of the Top schools I can think of, I’m sure there’s more

 

[deleted787552]

How about some data into this discussion
(Note I have attached AAMC PDF on
Financial Information, Resources, Services, and Tools
Education Debt Manager
For Matriculating and Graduating Medical School Students

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-debt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bfc91f8f3c9c
Fewer than one medical student in five receives $100,000 or more in financial assistance.
(note: above is from article by deans of USUHS)

https://store.aamc.org/downloadable/download/sample/sample_id/240/

View attachment 255974

If only 75% have educational debt, doesn’t that mean the rest are either super wealthy or have a full ride? If so the “fewer than 1 in 5” thing sounds misleading.

It’s also interesting that the difference in debt between public and private aren’t much different. I wonder how this works out since public/state schools are marketed to be very cheap and save you debt in the long term

 

[deleted962973]

I believe 20% of the class at UCLA receive Geffen. Besides Penn, NYU and UCLA what other schools give full tuition scholarships?

Are you referring only to T20 schools? Bc Ohio State also has merit scholarships that go up to full tuition.

 

[scarletgirl777]

If only 75% have educational debt, doesn’t that mean the rest are either super wealthy or have a full ride? If so the “fewer than 1 in 5” thing sounds misleading.

It’s also interesting that the difference in debt between public and private aren’t much different. I wonder how this works out since public/state schools are marketed to be very cheap and save you debt in the long term

My average state school gave no merit aid and I think no need based aid period to anyone so I saved money with my top tier admission at a private school. Unless you live in Texas or your parents are wealthy, state school cannot be counted on to save money.

 

[deleted787552]

My average state school gave no merit aid and I think no need based aid period to anyone so I saved money with my top tier admission at a private school. Unless you live in Texas or your parents are wealthy, state school cannot be counted on to save money.

It’s the math that throws me off. The average state school tuition is close to 30-40k (at least where I am) while the private school is closer to 60k. That’s a pretty big difference between the two yet the final loan totals in the chart are much more similar (10k difference) which I wouldn’t have expected. Maybe all these people have the cash to pay it off?

 

[theKingLT]

If only 75% have educational debt, doesn’t that mean the rest are either super wealthy or have a full ride? If so the “fewer than 1 in 5” thing sounds misleading.

It’s also interesting that the difference in debt between public and private aren’t much different. I wonder how this works out since public/state schools are marketed to be very cheap and save you debt in the long term

50% of matriculants come from families in the top 20% of U.S. incomes ($150,000+)

 

[scarletgirl777]

It’s the math that throws me off. The average state school tuition is close to 30-40k (at least where I am) while the private school is closer to 60k. That’s a pretty big difference between the two yet the final loan totals in the chart are much more similar (10k difference) which I wouldn’t have expected. Maybe all these people have the cash to pay it off?

Yes their parents are paying for most or all of their tuition because they are well off or because their kids won free rides for college and now they can afford grad school. Even in residency I have coworkers with parents paying their bills. The people who go to private med schools are not representative of the general even college educated population, they are much more well off and many are children of doctors themselves who of course want to support their kid going down the same path as them.

 

[5yewy5r]

It’s the math that throws me off. The average state school tuition is close to 30-40k (at least where I am) while the private school is closer to 60k. That’s a pretty big difference between the two yet the final loan totals in the chart are much more similar (10k difference) which I wouldn’t have expected. Maybe all these people have the cash to pay it off?

Couldn't find much data on this, but maybe private schools give more need-based aid? It's fairly common for parents to chip in (partially or even totally) for undergraduate tuition, but I was under that impression that it was less common for medical school...

 

[dodolol21]

50% of matriculants come from families in the top 20% of U.S. incomes ($150,000+)

This guy's got the key point. Especially in states like TX a lot of people with parental support can manage to keep up with 17-20k/year tuition in cash

 

[907914]

Private schools (particularly those at the top) tend to give a higher amount of scholarships (No hard data - just noticed from looking at average graduate debts on MSAR). So tuition may be a lot higher, but COA will be the same average and scholarships are higher so they virtually balance out

 

[deleted787552]

50% of matriculants come from families in the top 20% of U.S. incomes ($150,000+)

But only 25% are debt free? So does that mean the parents of the other 25 said ‘nah you’re in your own’

Yes their parents are paying for most or all of their tuition because they are well off or because their kids won free rides for college and now they can afford grad school. Even in residency I have coworkers with parents paying their bills. The people who go to private med schools are not representative of the general even college educated population, they are much more well off and many are children of doctors themselves who of course want to support their kid going down the same path as them.

You’re right. The field is rigged to benefit the wealthy. Do all these people live with their parents during residency? I can’t imagine my parents financing my rent and other bills after I had a career job

Couldn't find much data on this, but maybe private schools give more need-based aid? It's fairly common for parents to chip in (partially or even totally) for undergraduate tuition, but I was under that impression that it was less common for medical school...

Private schools (particularly those at the top) tend to give a higher amount of scholarships (No hard data - just noticed from looking at average graduate debts on MSAR). So tuition may be a lot higher, but COA will be the same average and scholarships are higher so they virtually balance out

Oh didn’t think about that. That actually makes a lot of sense. The tuition price is basically inflated at that point. I thought scholarships were a rarity in med school but it looks like everyone on here and Reddit are getting half/full rides lol

 

[scarletgirl777]

But only 25% are debt free? So does that mean the parents of the other 25 said ‘nah you’re in your own’



You’re right. The field is rigged to benefit the wealthy. Do all these people live with their parents during residency? I can’t imagine my parents financing my rent and other bills after I had a career job





Oh didn’t think about that. That actually makes a lot of sense. The tuition price is basically inflated at that point. I thought scholarships were a rarity in med school but it looks like everyone on here and Reddit are getting half/full rides lol

Many people whose parents are helping pay for med school they aren't just giving them the full cost of attending. Some are. Some are only paying tuition. Some are sending money to help with bills but not tuition. At my school a lot of people spent more on rent than cost of attendance allowed for. In all those situations you may still need loans. That was never going to be me so I applied and made decisions accordingly.

No people don't live with parents in residency lol. But they can buy them apartments or cars or send them money to help with expenses. If you are making 400k you may think helping your kid with bills is a better use of your money than whatever luxury items you were going to buy otherwise. Also if your parents were making 400k and you start earning 50 or 60k in residency that is a drastic change in your lifestyle and not every parent wants that for their kid even if that kid is 30 now and not really a kid at all haha.

 

[965978]

But only 25% are debt free? So does that mean the parents of the other 25 said ‘nah you’re in your own’

It would take an extremely high family income to allow someone to get their child through med school debt free w/o scholarships. Much more than $150k. Just because a family is well off doesn’t mean they have 80k sitting around every year to support their kid’s COA.

 

[deleted962973]

But only 25% are debt free? So does that mean the parents of the other 25 said ‘nah you’re in your own’



You’re right. The field is rigged to benefit the wealthy. Do all these people live with their parents during residency? I can’t imagine my parents financing my rent and other bills after I had a career job





Oh didn’t think about that. That actually makes a lot of sense. The tuition price is basically inflated at that point. I thought scholarships were a rarity in med school but it looks like everyone on here and Reddit are getting half/full rides lol

Tbf many families making 150K a year income may not be able to afford COA at 80K. ~30% of that 150 is going to taxes, and therefore spending half your take home income a year on school seems inadvisable.

I also wonder why they don’t ask for historical data on income when assessing financial aid and just look at one calendar year- my parents own a restaurant and they might do really well one year and be in the red the next. So unsteady parental income may be another reason why “well-off” kids are taking out loans.

 

[907914]

Many people whose parents are helping pay for med school they aren't just giving them the full cost of attending. Some are. Some are only paying tuition. Some are sending money to help with bills but not tuition. At my school a lot of people spent more on rent than cost of attendance allowed for. In all those situations you may still need loans. That was never going to be me so I applied and made decisions accordingly.

No people don't live with parents in residency lol. But they can buy them apartments or cars or send them money to help with expenses. If you are making 400k you may think helping your kid with bills is a better use of your money than whatever luxury items you were going to buy otherwise. Also if your parents were making 400k and you start earning 50 or 60k in residency that is a drastic change in your lifestyle and not every parent wants that for their kid even if that kid is 30 now and not really a kid at all haha.

Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me there are parents who make a decent amount of money and actually WANT to help their kids with paying for schooling?

 

[scarletgirl777]

Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me there are parents who make a decent amount of money and actually WANT to help their kids with paying for schooling?

Lol.
I think in 30 years it's going to be expected that parents pay for med school the way it's expected parents pay for college. There's already one med school that explicitly said this was a family decision and the school was not going to make up for the parents expected contribution under any circumstances.

 

[965978]

Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me there are parents who make a decent amount of money and actually WANT to help their kids with paying for schooling?

You know what’s funny?

My parents can’t even afford to support my rent.

And there are parents out there that can support getting their ungrateful kids into top colleges by bribing them with several million dollars.

But at the end of the road, who appreciates their career more and works hard for it?

 

[theKingLT]

Lol.
I think in 30 years it's going to be expected that parents pay for med school the way it's expected parents pay for college. There's already one med school that explicitly said this was a family decision and the school was not going to make up for the parents expected contribution under any circumstances.

That's most (all?) med schools today. They look at parental income and assets, and use that to determine need. They don't look at how much parents actually give to their children and as far as I know need based aid has never worked that way at any level of education. If you don't consider parents to have to contribute then the vast majority of students are equally broke and there's not enough need money to go around for that.

The difference between grad school and undergrad is that the government stops giving parents an efc in grad school so you're always guaranteed to have everything paid for in government loans at a minimum. Need based aid is icing on the cake.

 

[scarletgirl777]

The difference between grad school and undergrad is that the government stops giving parents an efc in grad school so you're always guaranteed to have everything paid for in government loans had at minimum. Need based aid is icing on the cake.

That's what I am talking about. That difference could start to disappear.

 

[deleted787552]

That's most (all?) med schools today. They look at parental income and assets, and use that to determine need. They don't look at how much parents actually give to their children and as far as I know need based aid has never worked that way at any level of education. If you don't consider parents to have to contribute then the vast majority of students are equally broke and there's not enough need money to go around for that.

The difference between grad school and undergrad is that the government stops giving parents an efc in grad school so you're always guaranteed to have everything paid for in government loans at a minimum. Need based aid is icing on the cake.

To be fair not all schools look are parental income. I think it’s becoming more common to not do so since grad students are automatically considered independents. I do agree that there needs to be a clarifier about whether a parent will actually contribute. Maybe require a 1099 to be submitted from year 2 onwards to prove parental contribution otherwise adjust loan amounts.

 

[theKingLT]

That's what I am talking about. That difference could start to disappear.

Sorry thought you were referring to scholarships not loans. Correct me if im wrong, but i believe the Grad PLUS loans are relatively recent from the Obama administration. Current republican pressures to remove them are just political, and not motivated by any long term trend towards removing loans from graduate school. I think the situation in 30 years will be much more a simple result of who's in office as opposed to any long term economic trends. Regardless, government or private, med students will never have trouble getting loans, it's the low paying professional schools like social work that would struggle with cuts to ensured government loans

To be fair not all schools look are parental income. I think it’s becoming more common to not do so since grad students are automatically considered independents. I do agree that there needs to be a clarifier about whether a parent will actually contribute. Maybe require a 1099 to be submitted from year 2 onwards to prove parental contribution otherwise adjust loan amounts.

True. I believe mayo doesn't and NYU kind of doesn't since their need vs not is just a matter COA vs free tuition. I don't know if they will ever consider parental choice in determining aid but I think removing or reducing parental efc is a likely trend that makes sense given the increasing age of med students

 

[freedoctor17]

If you are from low SES and you get an acceptance to top20, aren’t you pretty much guaranteed full tuition scholarship based on financial need? Seems like that was true in my case this cycle. Many top schools also focus on need based sholarships and not necessary merit. Edited

Unfortunately not all top 20s. One of my favorite schools accepted me that is a top 20 and I'm low SES but they only cover up to 20 percent in need based aid 🙁

Probably won't be attending unless somehow i can get more there since my other options are much cheaper.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

Unfortunately not all top 20s. One of my favorite schools accepted me that is a top 20 and I'm low SES but they only cover up to 20 percent in need based aid 🙁

Probably won't be attending unless somehow i can get more there since my other options are much cheaper.

Wow that sucks. Can I ask what school?

 

[puahate]

Unfortunately not all top 20s. One of my favorite schools accepted me that is a top 20 and I'm low SES but they only cover up to 20 percent in need based aid 🙁

Probably won't be attending unless somehow i can get more there since my other options are much cheaper.

What school?

 

[scarletgirl777]

Wow that sucks. Can I ask what school?

UCSF came right out and announced on my interview day that they don't have good aid. The school has to have a great endowment to support this--Harvard, Penn, Columbia. Being a top school doesn't perfectly correlate with it.

 

[deleted962973]

What school?

Lol is this Vandy? You should negotiate for merit aid if you have other offers!

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

UCSF came right out and announced on my interview day that they don't have good aid. The school has to have a great endowment to support this--Harvard, Penn, Columbia. Being a top school doesn't perfectly correlate with it.

I disagree, my roommate is from low SES and got a full tuition-ish scholarship on need-based from UCSF. However, they rarely cover more than that.

 

[theKingLT]

I disagree, my roommate is from low SES and got a full tuition-ish scholarship on need-based from UCSF. However, they rarely cover more than that.

Low SES routinely get full tuition and even full COA all over the country among T20s, so I wouldn't consider that the strongest argument. Schools like Columbia are giving full tuition, or close to it, to middle class students on need alone

 

[camnewton1]

I disagree, my roommate is from low SES and got a full tuition-ish scholarship on need-based from UCSF. However, they rarely cover more than that.

Yeah for those that have the most need, they cover up to full tuition with grants. However, their definition of need seems to be more strict than those of comparable schools, and comparable schools offer up to COA with grants. I guess this is an area that they are trying to improve on.