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[deleted1080380]

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[KnightDoc]

Hi all,

I am a little confused about the gap year process and what exactly a gap year means. So let's say at the moment an applicant wants to apply this cycle; they apply this coming June/summer, then the process in the last quarter of the year (ideally with an acceptance. If they take a gap year, then they would forego applying an entire year and apply senior year June/summer with the process ending late 2021/2022.

My confusion:
1. Everyone is going to do their senior year, so what exactly is the point in taking a single gap year such that you essentially have an entire year (a bit less) of literally zero commitments/school? I get if you have GPA/MCAT issues and legitimately need a year to do those, but in the case of normal activities, the entire existence of a gap year seems to rely on the notion that an adcom would assume you immediately cease all pre-med activity post-applying as a junior, which obviously isn't the case.
2. Do you have to describe what you do during your upcoming gap year as you apply (as a senior)? Could I take a gap year, get my arbitrary numbers up from 200 to 400 or whatever (such that the 5 second admission officer glance over them won't cost me an instant denial) then just screw around for the 'actual' gap year?


Thanks

It's not clear exactly what you don't understand. Either you apply the summer before senior year and enter med school right after graduating from UG (no gap) or you apply after you graduate and take one or more gap years.

People do it for all kinds of reasons (GPA repair, bolster ECs, work to make money, have life enriching experiences, etc.). Not everyone does it, but around 2/3 of matriculants do.

No one is assuming anyone is immediately ceasing anything. A lot of people take gap years to make them more competitive, because, for many people, there just isn't enough time in 3 years plus the application year to get good grades and do all the other things that are expected.

Yes, you are expected to describe what you are doing during your gap year. You can screw around all you want, but it will be difficult to make that sound exciting or productive if asked about it during an interview. Again, around 1/3 of matriculants are successful without them, and if that's you, great, you don't need to "screw around" for a year and can just go straight through. If not, you won't be accomplishing your goal of making your application more competitive by "getting your arbitrary numbers up" and "then just screwing around."

 

[deleted1080380]

It's not clear exactly what you don't understand. Either you apply the summer before senior year and enter med school right after graduating from UG (no gap) or you apply after you graduate and take one or more gap years.

People do it for all kinds of reasons (GPA repair, bolster ECs, work to make money, have life enriching experiences, etc.). Not everyone does it, but around 2/3 of matriculants do.

No one is assuming anyone is immediately ceasing anything. A lot of people take gap years to make them more competitive, because, for many people, there just isn't enough time in 3 years plus the application year to get good grades and do all the other things that are expected.

Yes, you are expected to describe what you are doing during your gap year. You can screw around all you want, but it will be difficult to make that sound exciting or productive if asked about it during an interview. Again, around 1/3 of matriculants are successful without them, and if that's you, great, you don't need to "screw around" for a year and can just go straight through. If not, you won't be accomplishing your goal of making your application more competitive by "getting your arbitrary numbers up" and "then just screwing around."

You said "3 years plus the application year" but isn't a gap year 3 years plus the application year? If you apply normally, you don't get to include activities from your application year (senior) but if you take a gap year you do, meaning when you normally apply (w/o a gap year) it would be your first two years plus your application year, junior year, but not senior year. That is what I'm asking, the actual gap year itself is not included in your app unless you take two "gap years?"

 

[KnightDoc]

You said "3 years plus the application year" but isn'ta gap year 3 years plus the application year? If you apply normally, you don't get to include activities from your application year (senior) but if you take a gap year you do, meaning when you normally apply (w/o a gap year) it would be your first two years plus your application year, junior year, but not senior year. That is what I'm saying, the actual gap year itself is not included in your app unless you take two "gap years?"

Not exactly. Assuming you have your gap year plans lined up when you submit in June/July, you describe your plans and include "projected hours." This is the value of the gap year, for those who want/need it. It's not just to have senior year activities be described in the past tense, and to then "screw around" for a year. This accomplishes nothing, because traditional applicants receive the same credit for senior year activities by describing them in their applications. Adcoms do want to know what you are up to during your application year, whether or not you are in school.

At least now I understand what confused you in your OP!

 

[deleted1080380]

Not exactly. Assuming you have your gap year plans lined up when you submit in June/July, you describe your plans and include "projected hours." This is the value of the gap year, for those who want/need it. It's not just to have senior year activities be described in the past tense, and to then "screw around" for a year. This accomplishes nothing, because traditional applicants receive the same credit for senior year activities by describing them in their applications. Adcoms do want to know what you are up to during your application year, whether or not you are in school.

At least now I understand what confused you in your OP!

This literally makes zero sense. So you can project hours for a gap year and they are apparently worth something, but when I project hours (for activities I am literally currently doing) into my senior year as a traditional applicant, they are invalid and I have to take a gap year instead? Lmao, truly incredible, this joke of an application process baffles me more every single day.

 

[KnightDoc]

This literally makes zero sense. So you can project hours for a gap year and they are apparently worth something, but when I project hours (for activities I am literally currently doing) into my senior year as a traditional applicant, they are invalid and I have to take a gap year instead? Lmao, truly incredible, this joke of an application process baffles me more every single day.

No, I think you are misunderstanding. Projected hours receive less weight than actual hours, because they can change, but they are absolutely not invalid. If you were right, everyone WOULD need at least two gap years, and that is simply not the case. If you've been plugging away since freshman year, you might very well be good to go. As I said, around 1/3 of all applicants are fine without any gap years. EVERYONE has projected hours on their apps, because NO ONE says they are spending the application year doing nothing!!!

Are you applying now, or talking about doing so as a senior next year?

 

[deleted1080380]

No, I think you are misunderstanding. Projected hours receive less weight than actual hours, because they can change, but they are absolutely not invalid. If you were right, everyone WOULD need at least two gap years, and that is simply not the case. If you've been plugging away since freshman year, you might very well be good to go. As I said,a round 1/3 of all applicants are fine without any gap years.

Are you applying now, or talking about doing so as a senior next year?

I'm a junior now, was hoping to apply this cycle. My nonclinical are low (not super low, just lower than I would want) but otherwise,my application is good to go. Been doing most of my ECs since late freshman/early sophomore year but never got around to really investing time into nonclinical. My numbers are good enough to apply to medical school, broadly speaking, but I've been re-evaluating my options. Nonetheless, waiting an extra year and then having a year of no school/nothing just to get my nonclinical hours from 100 to 500 sounds completely ricidulous.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm a junior now, was hoping to apply this cycle. My nonclinical are low (not super low, just lower than I would want) but otherwise,my application is good to go. Been doing most of my ECs since late freshman/early sophomore year but never got around to really investing time into nonclinical. My numbers are good enough to apply to medical school, broadly speaking, but I've been re-evaluating my options. Nonetheless, waiting an extra year and then having a year of no school/nothing just to get my nonclinical hours from 100 to 500 sounds completely ricidulous.

In that case, no need to. If all you are missing is a few hundred non-clinical hours, you just need to find and start that activity before you submit next May/June/July, and then project hours. You'll be in the same boat as all the other seniors applying. People doing gap years are doing far more than filling in a few hundred hours in one category of EC.

Again, I now see why you were confused! Obviously, I have no idea what the rest of your app looks like, but you don't need 500 non-clinical hours to be competitive, and you don't need a 52 week break in your education to pick up 100-200 hours, when you can easily do that during your senior year while applying!

 

[VRJendo]

gap year means TIME TO ENJOY LIFE haha , half kidding, especially now with the pandemic =(

 

[deleted1080380]

In that case, no need to. If all you are missing is a few hundred non-clinical hours, you just need to find and start that activity before you submit next May/June/July, and then project hours. You'll be in the same boat as all the other seniors applying. People doing gap years are doing far more than filling in a few hundred hours in one category of EC.

Again, I now see why you were confused! Obviously, I have no idea what the rest of your app looks like, but you don't need 500 non-clinical hours to be competitive, and you don't need a 52 week break in your education to pick up 100-200 hours, when you can easily do that during your senior year while applying!

I mean that makes sense, thanks. I was just viewing it in the context of clinical/nonclinical/stats as being the foundations of your app. I've been seeing people who have ~100 clinical hours on this forum who are told they will essentially be insta-denied (regardless of COVID) and that a gap year is necessary. Not that I agreed, and by your logic as long as you had a position prior-COVID you could just project the hours....but I thought the same would apply to nonclinical.

 

[KnightDoc]

I mean that makes sense, thanks. I was just viewing it in the context of clinical/nonclinical/stats as being the foundations of your app. I've been seeing people who have ~100 clinical hours on this forum who are told they will essentially be insta-denied (regardless of COVID) and that a gap year is necessary. Not that I agreed, and by your logic as long as you had a position prior-COVID you could just project the hours....but I thought the same would apply to nonclinical.

Yeah, it actually goes beyond that. 100 is on the low side, but there is no such thing as insta-denied, depending on what the rest of the app looks like. There are also people getting into T5 schools who have less than 200 hours!

The bottom line is, pre- or post-COVID, everyone projects hours into the application year. They are not given as much weight as completed hours, but they are also not ignored, because it is expected that you will be doing SOMETHING during the gap year. The key is to start the activity before you submit the app, so that you can write knowledgeably about it. Remember, around 1/3 go straight to med school with no gap years. There is no way to collect all the expected experiences in 3 years (especially because a lot of people start off slow while acclimating to college), so the schools are definitely giving credit for the projected senior year activities.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

. I've been seeing people who have ~100 clinical hours on this forum who are told they will essentially be insta-denied (regardless of COVID) and that a gap year is necessary. Not that I agreed, and by your logic as long as you had a position prior-COVID you could just project the hours....but I thought the same would apply to nonclinical.

yeah, some (including adcoms) believe you need much more than 100 hrs but if your rest of the application is good and you can articulate well what you did during those 100 hrs you will be fine.

 

[candbgirl]

OP you can apply anytime you want to apply with any amount of ECs you want. It’s entirely up to you. Just keep in mind:
1) projected hours are precisely that-projected hours. ADCOMS probably have preconceived ideas about projected hours. They certainly know that life happens and those hours may or may not ever get done.
2) Each application cycle just over 40% of all applicants are accepted to any med school and over half of that number are accepted to one med school. This means that around 57% of all applicants each cycle are out right rejected. This includes stellar applicants with amazing applications. That’s why you really only want to apply one time with the best application. You want your application to scream “pick me” for an interview. If you aren’t accepted and you reapply, ADCOMS will expect to see significant improvement across your application. So in many cases that explains taking a gap year. Build the strongest application you can and then apply.

 

[datboi_58]

Most schools will ask what you’re doing during the app cycle year if you’re not going to be in school. With that said, projected hours/activities hold less weight but keep in mind the application cycle consists of more than just sending in your app:

1. You’re allowed to send in updates to many schools and if you’re in a gap year and have started something in August, you will have racked up plenty of hours in just 1-2 months if it’s something full-time.

2. Interviews begin in August and run through the spring. If you didn’t fill in your projected hours, it will likely be evident and harmful during the interview. On the flip side, if you did fill in your projected hours, it will be beneficial during the interview.

Lastly, even if you don’t include the projected hours, taking a gap year still means you have an extra year’s worth of EC hours that you would not have if you didn’t take the gap year. Sure they’re not your post-grad hours because those are projected but it’s still an extra year’s worth of time that could boost your app.

 

[deleted1080380]

Build the strongest application you can and then apply.

Most schools will ask what you’re doing during the app cycle year if you’re not going to be in school. With that said, projected hours/activities hold less weight but keep in mind the application cycle consists of more than just sending in your app:

1. You’re allowed to send in updates to many schools and if you’re in a gap year and have started something in August, you will have racked up plenty of hours in just 1-2 months if it’s something full-time.

2. Interviews begin in August and run through the spring. If you didn’t fill in your projected hours, it will likely be evident and harmful during the interview. On the flip side, if you did fill in your projected hours, it will be beneficial during the interview.

Lastly, even if you don’t include the projected hours, taking a gap year still means you have an extra year’s worth of EC hours that you would not have if you didn’t take the gap year. Sure they’re not your post-grad hours because those are projected but it’s still an extra year’s worth of time that could boost your app.

Yeah, makes sense. But then again the only 'weak' part of my application that would objectively benefit from my senior year + projected hours of my gap year are hours themselves. I have more than sufficient leadership, activities, etc., my hours are just lower than I would want in some of them. I ask myself would 2 years of gap be worth changing the hundreds digit in my nonclinical from a 1 to a 4 or clinical from a 1 to a 4 (or any pertinent example) and I can't convince myself that it would be worth it.

Like I've been in all of these activities for 2+ years, just the hours are low due to external factors like many others. Spending 2 years or taking a gap year for hours I could do in literally 1 month (if given the opportunity) sounds like a disaster and waste of time.

 

[candbgirl]

I’m not sure why you think you’d be taking two gap years but whatever. You are pretty obviously adverse to taking a gap year. So don’t take one and apply in June 2021. It’s entirely up to you. See what happens. Maybe every thing will just fall together. If not there is always next cycle. Just keep up with all of your ECs in case you do have to reapply. ADCOMS will expect to see significant improvement in your application.

 

[datboi_58]

I’m not sure why you think you’d be taking two gap years but whatever. You are pretty obviously adverse to taking a gap year. So don’t take one and apply in June 2021. It’s entirely up to you. See what happens. Maybe every thing will just fall together. If not there is always next cycle. Just keep up with all of your ECs in case you do have to reapply. ADCOMS will expect to see significant improvement in your application.

This. If you feel like you’re competitive, apply. If you don’t, take the extra year to work on whatever you need to.

 

[KnightDoc]

Lastly, even if you don’t include the projected hours, taking a gap year still means you have an extra year’s worth of EC hours that you would not have if you didn’t take the gap year. Sure they’re not your post-grad hours because those are projected but it’s still an extra year’s worth of time that could boost your app.

I totally agreed with everything you said, right up to the bolded part. If a tree falls in the forest.... If you don't include projected hours, how do you have an extra year's worth of ECs, unless you wait until AFTER the gap year to apply?

 

[datboi_58]

I totally agreed with everything you said, right up to the bolded part. If a tree falls in the forest.... If you don't include projected hours, how do you have an extra year's worth of ECs, unless you wait until AFTER the gap year to apply?

If you apply summer before 4th year, you only have 3 years worth of hours/ECs. If you apply summer after 4th year, you have 4 years worth of hours/ECs regardless of projected hours.

 

[deleted1080380]

I dunno, I was just browsing previous threads about the topic and everyone on this forum just seems to have a very strong belief that if you don't have X number of hours (seems to be like 200 for clinical, 300 for nonclinical) you're just F'd. Like there was a thread awhile back where someone who had 100 clinical hours but a decent app overall was advised to take a gap year to get more clinical experience..? I would assume that what you are actually doing probably has an impact too, which is also what my undergrad health advisor said. Like 100 hours of re-stocking, the ED is not comparable to 100 hours of scribing; similarly, 2=300 additional hours of ED restocking would have probably zero impact on you as a premed. Nonetheless, you can convey that on your application however you want.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hi all,

I am a little confused about the gap year process and what exactly a gap year means. So let's say at the moment an applicant wants to apply this cycle; they apply this coming June/summer, then the process in the last quarter of the year (ideally with an acceptance. If they take a gap year, then they would forego applying an entire year and apply senior year June/summer with the process ending late 2021/2022.

My confusion:
1. Everyone is going to do their senior year, so what exactly is the point in taking a single gap year such that you essentially have an entire year (a bit less) of literally zero commitments/school? I get if you have GPA/MCAT issues and legitimately need a year to do those, but in the case of normal activities, the entire existence of a gap year seems to rely on the notion that an adcom would assume you immediately cease all pre-med activity post-applying as a junior, which obviously isn't the case.
2. Do you have to describe what you do during your upcoming gap year as you apply (as a senior)? Could I take a gap year, get my arbitrary numbers up from 200 to 400 or whatever (such that the 5 second admission officer glance over them won't cost me an instant denial) then just screw around for the 'actual' gap year?


Thanks

I interviewed Jennifer Welch, Associate Dean of Admissions sand Financial Aid at SUNY Upstate Medical University, about a year and a half ago. We discussed gap years and she said she prefers the term "growth years."

I like that concept and whenever I've discussed it with adcom they also liked it too.

If gap years aren't growth years, they are wastes of time and won't help your admissions chances. They could even hurt. If they are used as growth opportunities, they typically enhance acceptance changes. It all depends on how you use that time. "Growth" can come in many different forms: Academic enhancement, an improved MCAT, research exposure, more clinical exposure, work experience in medicine or outside of it, or perhaps a really impressive volunteer commitment. Or a combination of the above.

Most schools will ask how you are spending your time since graduating college.

At the same time if you feel you have the stats, commitment, maturity, and qualifications to apply this upcoming summer (between your junior and senior year), go for it. A gap year(s) is not a requirement, although a lot of admissions directors like to see them.

 

[KnightDoc]

If you apply summer before 4th year, you only have 3 years worth of hours/ECs. If you apply summer after 4th year, you have 4 years worth of hours/ECs regardless of projected hours.

I'm so stupid!!

I still disagree insofar I think the value of the gap year is to be able to have the experiences, talk about them, and project the hours, as opposed to mostly being about being able to include 4th year hours as being in the book, but at least now I know what you were talking about!!

 

[deleted1080380]

I'm so stupid!!

I still disagree insofar I think the value of the gap year is to be able to have the experiences, talk about them, and project the hours, as opposed to mostly being about being able to include 4th year hours as being in the book, but at least now I know what you were talking about!!

You still only have the experiences from your senior year (aka most likely just continuations of junior year activities unless you legit haven't even started clinical or nonclinical volunteering) even during the ideal time to get II's in the fall quarter, your gap year still will have barely started. I rlly don't get it lol. You think the value in a gap year is talking about activities that you plan to do in said gap year????

 

[candbgirl]

You still only have the experiences from your senior year (aka most likely just continuations of junior year activities unless you legit haven't even started clinical or nonclinical volunteering) even during the ideal time to get II's in the fall quarter, your gap year still will have barely started. I rlly don't get it lol. You think the value in a gap year is talking about activities that you plan to do in said gap year????

Every time I read one of your posts I’m more confused. You seem to have built this giant brick wall in your mind regarding Gap years. You are so blinded by your belief that gap years are a waste of time that you seem to have completely disregarded all of the explanations/advice you have received. If after reading @LindaAccepted ‘s wonderful explanation you still see no point in taking a gap year, this thread might as well be closed. You seem intent on applying, so good luck as you move forward.

 

[datboi_58]

As a med student who took a gap year and had several IIs and multiple acceptances, I can confidently tell you that there is tremendous value in updating schools about your gap year activity and talking about it during your interviews.

 

[KnightDoc]

You still only have the experiences from your senior year (aka most likely just continuations of junior year activities unless you legit haven't even started clinical or nonclinical volunteering) even during the ideal time to get II's in the fall quarter, your gap year still will have barely started. I rlly don't get it lol. You think the value in a gap year is talking about activities that you plan to do in said gap year????

Yeah, I guess so. Assuming you are being diligent in pursuing activities, you should have around 2,000 projected gap year hours to talk about. By the time you are submitting in June/July, you should have already begun and know enough to be able to write about them. By the time interviews roll around, a few months will have elapsed, and you should have several hundred hours completed, whether it's full time scribing, EMTing, volunteering, whatever.

If you already have enough hours and experiences, you don't need it. Otherwise, you do. You started this thread by opining that it wold be a waste of time merely to have senior year activities completed so that they are not "projected hours." I agree.

You just don't seem to be accepting that a ton of people don't have enough ECs, even with senior year activities. Those are the people who need gap years (yes, to be able to talk about activities they just started that they didn't have before ), in addition to those who still need to pick up prereqs, or do GPA repair. You don't seem to fit into any of these categories, so a gap year is probably not for you. It's okay -- a full 1/3 of matriculants are in the same boat. You are far from unique.

 

[deleted1080380]

I'm sorry for the confusion, I guess I am just repeatedly confusing myself. The only reason I really started this thread was because I saw a clinical volunteering thread where everyone was telling someone with ~100 clinical hours to "take a gap year to get more" despite the rest of their app being great because they would be essentially screwed. I was concerned because I am in that situation except for non-clinical hours and was worried I'd be shooting myself in the foot applying now.

At the same time, after a few responses here I realized that a gap year essentially means senior year + another empty year and I was really confused why you would dedicate that much time (why it was needed, from an AO's perspective) to go from 100 -> 300 clinical hours when you had good stats/good nonclinical/etc. Essentially I was really confused as to how that could suddenly change your application from "screwed" to "you have a shot anywhere." That is why I mentioned the ED example because I was scratching my head as to how +200 hours of clinical such as restocking ED or something could suddenly change an AOs entire perspective on my app.

I don't have anything against a gap year, I just think I was misled into thinking ~100 volunteer hours in a subcategory was lethal to MD chances when I suppose it really is not, at all, provided a good whole application.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I'm sorry for the confusion, I guess I am just repeatedly confusing myself. The only reason I really started this thread was because I saw a clinical volunteering thread where everyone was telling someone with ~100 clinical hours to "take a gap year to get more" despite the rest of their app being great because they would be essentially screwed. I was concerned because I am in that situation except for non-clinical hours and was worried I'd be shooting myself in the foot applying now.

At the same time, after a few responses here I realized that a gap year essentially means senior year + another empty year and I was really confused why you would dedicate that much time (why it was needed, from an AO's perspective) to go from 100 -> 300 clinical hours when you had good stats/good nonclinical/etc. Essentially I was really confused as to how that could suddenly change your application from "screwed" to "you have a shot anywhere." That is why I mentioned the ED example because I was scratching my head as to how +200 hours of clinical such as restocking ED or something could suddenly change an AOs entire perspective on my app.

I don't have anything against a gap year, I just think I was misled into thinking ~100 volunteer hours in a subcategory was lethal to MD chances when I suppose it really is not, at all, provided a good whole application.

Yes, I have seen lot of those posts and my kid was told same and also was told he is aiming high. However it's hard for adcoms to tell without knowing full details of the application so they suggest higher number and also with 2/3rds having gap year it's kind of became standard recommendation.

 

[datboi_58]

I'm sorry for the confusion, I guess I am just repeatedly confusing myself. The only reason I really started this thread was because I saw a clinical volunteering thread where everyone was telling someone with ~100 clinical hours to "take a gap year to get more" despite the rest of their app being great because they would be essentially screwed. I was concerned because I am in that situation except for non-clinical hours and was worried I'd be shooting myself in the foot applying now.

At the same time, after a few responses here I realized that a gap year essentially means senior year + another empty year and I was really confused why you would dedicate that much time (why it was needed, from an AO's perspective) to go from 100 -> 300 clinical hours when you had good stats/good nonclinical/etc. Essentially I was really confused as to how that could suddenly change your application from "screwed" to "you have a shot anywhere." That is why I mentioned the ED example because I was scratching my head as to how +200 hours of clinical such as restocking ED or something could suddenly change an AOs entire perspective on my app.

I don't have anything against a gap year, I just think I was misled into thinking ~100 volunteer hours in a subcategory was lethal to MD chances when I suppose it really is not, at all, provided a good whole application.

I think this is because gap years are becoming more common so people with 100 clinical hours are competing with people with 1500 clinical hours. Like you said, I think it’s fine bc AdComs see that you’re still in school

 

[deleted1080380]

I think this is because gap years are becoming more common so people with 100 clinical hours are competing with people with 1500 clinical hours. Like you said, I think it’s fine bc AdComs see that you’re still in school

Agreed. I guess I was just not familiar with this "hours" metric and/or threshold qualifications that everyone on this forum seems to revolve their premed lives around. My health advisor seems to focus more on quality rather than quantity. Again I would love if someone explained this to me; as someone with 500 hours of clinical volunteering myself, I seriously see absolutely no path by which an additional 1000 hours would impact my desire (or lack thereof) to become a premed. After all, we are...premed...not residents...nor even med students..

 

[datboi_58]

Agreed. I guess I was just not familiar with this "hours" metric and/or threshold qualifications that everyone on this forum seems to revolve their premed lives around. My health advisor seems to focus more on quality rather than quantity. Again I would love if someone explained this to me; as someone with 500 hours of clinical volunteering myself, I seriously see absolutely no path by which an additional 1000 hours would impact my desire (or lack thereof) to become a premed. After all, we are...premed...not residents...nor even med students..

If you’re an AdCom, 1500 hours are better than 500. Again, that’s simplistic and there are more factors to consider but the point is that there are too many applicants for available spots so more time = more ECs = more competitive. It’s not really that 1000 more hours ensures you definitely want to be a doctor in comparison to the already 500 hours you have. It just means someone with 1500 hours has more experience and therefore is more competitive everything else being equal.

 

[KnightDoc]

If you’re an AdCom, 1500 hours are better than 500. Again, that’s simplistic and there are more factors to consider but the point is that there are too many applicants for available spots so more time = more ECs = more competitive. It’s not really that 1000 more hours ensures you definitely want to be a doctor in comparison to the already 500 hours you have. It just means someone with 1500 hours has more experience and therefore is more competitive everything else being equal.

This is true to a point, and then it isn't anymore and @Shorjand_U is on to something.

If 1500 is always better than 500, how do you explain 1/3 of all matriculants not having gap years? By definition, people with gap years will always have at least 2,000 more hours available for ECs than people without them. The people with gap years will always have more time, more experience, and "therefore be more competitive, everything else being equal" by your logic.

I actually think expectations, at least with respect to hours, have to be lower for traditional candidates. If not, there would be no traditional matriculants since, surely, there are enough qualified people with gap years to fill all available seats. I honestly think all else is not equal, adcoms look at quality of experiences over quantity, and they recognize there is a point of diminishing returns with respect to EC hours. People take gap years because they have not gathered the requisite experiences during their 4 years of UG, and not because 1500 hours is just better than 500 by definition.

 

[deleted1080380]

This is true to a point, and then it isn't anymore and @Shorjand_U is on to something.

If you’re an AdCom, 1500 hours are better than 500. Again, that’s simplistic and there are more factors to consider but the point is that there are too many applicants for available spots so more time = more ECs = more competitive. It’s not really that 1000 more hours ensures you definitely want to be a doctor in comparison to the already 500 hours you have. It just means someone with 1500 hours has more experience and therefore is more competitive everything else being equal.

I still think this still completely misses the main point of your premed application, which is to highlight a strong motive and reason for pursuing medicine. If you apply yourself consistently you'll end up with >1k hours in some subcategory of what builds your entire app; it's down to you to build a cohesive narrative that combines all of your experiences into the aformentioned. Reducing humanistic and subjective measures to mere numbers or "hours" sounds ridiculous to me and is contrary to essentially everything my upperclassmen peers and health advisors have told me.

 

[datboi_58]

This is true to a point, and then it isn't anymore and @Shorjand_U is on to something.

If 1500 is always better than 500, how do you explain 1/3 of all matriculants not having gap years? By definition, people with gap years will always have at least 2,000 more hours available for ECs than people without them. The people with gap years will always have more time, more experience, and "therefore be more competitive, everything else being equal" by your logic.

I actually think expectations, at least with respect to hours, have to be lower for traditional candidates. If not, there would be no traditional matriculants since, surely, there are enough qualified people with gap years to fill all available seats. I honestly think all else is not equal, adcoms look at quality of experiences over quantity, and they recognize there is a point of diminishing returns with respect to EC hours. People take gap years because they have not gathered the requisite experiences during their 4 years of UG, and not because 1500 hours is just better than 500 by definition.

I 100% agree that AdComs definitely consider the fact that traditional applicants have not had the opportunity to rack as many hours as non-trads.

But another thing to consider is that many non-trads apply because their GPAs and MCATs aren’t great and they’re either trying to make up for that via grad or post-bac programs or extra EC hours.

 

[deleted1025488]

I still think this still completely misses the main point of your premed application, which is to highlight a strong motive and reason for pursuing medicine. If you apply yourself consistently you'll end up with >1k hours in some subcategory of what builds your entire app; it's down to you to build a cohesive narrative that combines all of your experiences into the aformentioned. Reducing humanistic and subjective measures to mere numbers or "hours" sounds ridiculous to me and is contrary to essentially everything my upperclassmen peers and health advisors have told me.

No one can tell you this without your application info and more in-depth questions other than the one you asked. The hours are baseline thresholds and obviously AOs are going to look beyond "oh this kid has 500 and this kid has 200, the first one wins the clinical box!" If an applicant appeared with subpar clinical hours and a subpar GPA but had some sort of insane EC/achievement, then they would be a stellar applicant. However those are far and in between and not everyone has the time nor resources to achieve that—therefore, general hour guidlines are given to the general populous here at SDN. However you are certainly right that some robot who just has X hours in every subcategory and good stats won't get in over someone with an actual reason/displayed passion for medicine.

To address your original question, imho if you have good stats and you can bulid the narrative you outlined your previous comment using the experiences you have now, then taking a gap year just to work at a food shelter for 200 hours would probably have zero impact on your app. Not an AO but that's my honest opinion. At least for me and my friends, nonclinical activities have been the ones where we really stand out/have more freedom, but again I'm not an AO and you should just make a WAMC thread if you want to get an objective assessment of your profile.

 

[Goro]

You still only have the experiences from your senior year (aka most likely just continuations of junior year activities unless you legit haven't even started clinical or nonclinical volunteering) even during the ideal time to get II's in the fall quarter, your gap year still will have barely started. I rlly don't get it lol. You think the value in a gap year is talking about activities that you plan to do in said gap year????

A gap year in my mind is you taking off a year, and NOT your SR year to apply to med school. The purpose is to fill in any gaps or deficits in your app.

I also get the sense that your are seriously overthinking this. You apply when you have the best possible app, period.

 

[Goro]

Every time I read one of your posts I’m more confused. You seem to have built this giant brick wall in your mind regarding Gap years. You are so blinded by your belief that gap years are a waste of time that you seem to have completely disregarded all of the explanations/advice you have received. If after reading @LindaAccepted ‘s wonderful explanation you still see no point in taking a gap year, this thread might as well be closed. You seem intent on applying, so good luck as you move forward.

There's a reason why there is a CARS section on the MCAT.

 

[deleted1025488]

I also get the sense that your are seriously overthinking this. You apply when you have the best possible app, period.

I think OP is just weighing the value of 200 additional nonclinical hours (to reach that 'threshold') vs. 2 additional years before medical school and was misguided by previous threads. Saying stuff like "apply when you have the best possible app" is kind of an oversight in this regard. Like your "best possible app" could include a PhD or a fullbright scholarship, but obviously not everyone wants to do that; nonetheless, that still would be the best possible app...
@OP just post a WAMC or your entire profile otherwise this is pretty pointless. 100 nonclinical hours is very different in the context of zero research and 500 clinical hours and low stats vs. massive research accomplishments 500 clinical hours + extended clinical involvement and high stats (for example)

 

[Goro]

I think OP is just weighing the value of 200 additional nonclinical hours (to reach that 'threshold') vs. 2 additional years before medical school and was misguided by previous threads. Saying stuff like "apply when you have the best possible app" is kind of an oversight in this regard. Like your "best possible app" could include a PhD or a fullbright scholarship, but obviously not everyone wants to do that; nonetheless, that still would be the best possible app...
@OP just post a WAMC or your entire profile otherwise this is pretty pointless. 100 nonclinical hours is very different in the context of zero research and 500 clinical hours and low stats vs. massive research accomplishments 500 clinical hours + extended clinical involvement and high stats (for example)

Your thinking is rather black and white. When I say "have the best possible app", I don't mean go join the Peace Corps and then win a Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

What I mean is build a competitive app, especially for the schools one wishes to target.

Taken literally, no one would be able to apply to med school if they followed my advice in they way you describe. Just a warning, med school admissions seeks to weed out rigid concrete thinkers.

 

[KnightDoc]

Your thinking is rather black and white. When I say "have the best possible app", I don't mean go join the Peace Corps and then win a Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

What I mean is build a competitive app, especially for the schools one wishes to target.

Taken literally, no one would be able to apply to med school if they followed my advice in they way you describe. Just a warning, med school admissions seeks to weed out rigid concrete thinkers.

How about people who cannot communicate clearly in writing??

 

[deleted1080380]

Okay fair enough. Sorry again for the confusion I am just genuinely not familiar with the process and hear lots of varying information from my peers, health advisors, and then after browsing the forum here...sometimes it gets annoying.

Profile:
3.98c/4.0s/523 (130/131/132/130); clinical: Spanish interpreter at a free clinic and emergency department volunteer est. early 2019, also directly helped Hispanic families understand COVID/health literacy clearness at a different clinic est. early 2020; biochemical research, wet lab, 2 posters, 1 pub (review) est. late 2018; nonclinical: tutor for a program that helps low-income/disadvantaged Hispanic families by my city, est. late 2019 but I pretty much did nothing so far due to COVID; currently junior at T10 undergrad, first language is Spanish and also speak English and Portuguese

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How about people who cannot communicate clearly in writing??

They didn't take SAT/ACT writing exam.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Okay fair enough. Sorry again for the confusion I am just genuinely not familiar with the process and hear lots of varying information from my peers, health advisors, and then after browsing the forum here...sometimes it gets annoying.

Profile:
3.98c/4.0s/523 (130/131/132/130); clinical: Spanish interpreter at a free clinic and emergency department volunteer est. early 2019, also directly helped Hispanic families understand COVID/health literacy clearness at a different clinic est. early 2020; biochemical research, wet lab, 2 posters, 1 pub (review) est. late 2018; nonclinical: tutor for a program that helps low-income/disadvantaged Hispanic families by my city, est. late 2019 but I pretty much did nothing so far due to COVID; currently junior at T10 undergrad, first language is Spanish and also speak English and Portuguese

I don't think you need gap year and if you can right essays better than your posts you will get into T20 schools