Gap Year Dilemma: Internship or Second Degree??? - Md/PhD

[capacitor981]

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This is the first time I'm posting on this forum, so here it goes.... I'm an electrical engineering student with an emphasis on electromagnetics (I know by now you're thinking, what does that have to do with being a doctor?, let me explain). I decided two months ago that I would like to pursue an Md/PhD degree. I always had the intention of pursuing a PhD in biomedical engineering, but I want to emphasize more on the circuitry and building of medical devices more than working with DNA. My end goal is to be able to take new technologies that are being developed through research and assist the transition from benchtop to clinical use. That is why I feel getting a Md/Phd is so important because it will allow me to bridge the gap between academia and the medical field. With that said, I'm currently taking my second semester of chemistry, along with all my engineering courses. It's my senior year of my bachelor's degree and I've got 17 credit hours, let's just say it keeps me busy. Currently my Cumulative GPA is 3.57 (may I remind you that this is in Electrical Engineering and my courses include Microwave Theory, Antenna Theory, Computational Electromagnetics, and Solid-State Theory which are extremely difficult). Ironically, the low GPA is due to poor grades in lower-division humanities courses not from the upper division engineering courses. Anyways, I'll be graduating in December, and I find myself at a crossroads (which is why I'm posting here). Let me give you more background so you know where I'm coming from. I've been working at a laboratory on campus for almost a year now and currently we are working on single cell respiration sensing. I don't have any publications, but with any luck I will be part of the publication that should come soon. Also, I hope that my senior design project (measurement of low-loss material using non-destructive methods to find the loss tangent -- basically it's a fancy way of saying how to measure how good a material is for printed circuit board use) will be published in IEEE Microwave Theory before May. I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I am confident I can do well. I plan to take it in May. Another twist to the situation is that my wife and I just found out that she is pregnant! I'm very excited, but at the same time concerned because I don't want her to have to work so I'll need to step it up and make more money. So my question is to everyone, what should I do after graduation but before I apply (I will be applying in the summer of 2011)? Here are my options as I see it, but if anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Keep in mind that whatever I choose I will have about a year and a half before I can go to medical school so I want to use it wisely.
1) Pursue a Master's Degree (I personally don't feel I have the time to do this, but I thought I would mention it)
2) Get a job at a local Engineering company like Intel, Crane Aerospace, etc. and take prerequisites at the same time
3) Try to get a job at TGen or similar company (is work experienced valued the same as academia-research?)
4) Don't pursue any degree but fulfill prerequisites and work at the lab (if I don't do anything else, I will do this for sure)
5) Get a second Bachelor's degree (the idea behind this would be to raise my GPA and since I have most General requirements done, a second degree in another engineering area wouldn't take as long as normal)
6) (I don't like this idea but I thought I'd throw it out there) Don't graduate on purpose in December (in other words, drop one of my required classes to force me not to graduate) and then take prereq's next semester to raise my GPA, and graduate in May
7) Continue working at the same lab, try to get more publications, get a second job to pay for the baby (maybe an internship) and take prereq's.
Phew! I know that was long, thanks for reading. Any advice would be appreciated.
-capacitor981
P.S. Has anyone considered doing an online MS in Bioengineering from Perdue (I just got a promo from them in the mail)? Would it be worth it?

 

[tortuga87]

Assuming you are not considering an abortion (rough start, I know):

Facts:

1. Need money to pay for baby (#2, #3, maybe #7)
2. Need research to get into MD/PhD (#7, #6, #4, maybe #2, maybe #3)
3. Academic research preferred over private (#6, #7, #4, #1)
4. Need to raise undergrad GPA (#2, #4, #5, #6, #7)

Reasoning:

Common number = 7. Therefore, do #7. However, money is more important for the baby than getting academic research, so I would suggest #2 (it doesnt satisfy fact #3).

 

[QofQuimica]

Agree with tortuga; I like options 2 or 7 best. Would also vote for "neutral effect" for your poll. It might help some because you'd get research experience, but you already have research experience with a potential pub. It won't make up for a low UG GPA.

Also, is there some kind of work that your wife can do from home? Even if it's just babysitting a coworker's kid along with your own, that could help bring in some much-needed income.

 

[Nuckles]

Your GPA is good, even great for your major. I spoke to an adcom about this same problem with my gap year (minus the pregnant wife - congrats btw!) and I was told, flat out, not to get a masters based on my grades. "Why would you risk screwing up your GPA?" Sounds like you're in the same spot. Research experience is more important, and if possible they'd like for you to stay in the lab you've been in for a while to prove that people can handle being around you for an extended period of time and that you can handle working on the same project for an extended period of time.

Good luck on the MCAT, and more importantly, with your new family!

Edit:

PS It's P-U-rdue. Sorry, I have relatives who live in the area. It's a nice place to live and start a family, if you end up considering that area. Don't know about the academics in your field though.

Double Edit:

Just read critical word "online." So, nevermind, really. This is my first post too...

 

[gbwillner]

1) Pursue a Master's Degree (I personally don't feel I have the time to do this, but I thought I would mention it)
2) Get a job at a local Engineering company like Intel, Crane Aerospace, etc. and take prerequisites at the same time
3) Try to get a job at TGen or similar company (is work experienced valued the same as academia-research?)
4) Don't pursue any degree but fulfill prerequisites and work at the lab (if I don't do anything else, I will do this for sure)
5) Get a second Bachelor's degree (the idea behind this would be to raise my GPA and since I have most General requirements done, a second degree in another engineering area wouldn't take as long as normal)
6) (I don't like this idea but I thought I'd throw it out there) Don't graduate on purpose in December (in other words, drop one of my required classes to force me not to graduate) and then take prereq's next semester to raise my GPA, and graduate in May
7) Continue working at the same lab, try to get more publications, get a second job to pay for the baby (maybe an internship) and take prereq's.
Phew! I know that was long, thanks for reading. Any advice would be appreciated.
-capacitor981
P.S. Has anyone considered doing an online MS in Bioengineering from Perdue (I just got a promo from them in the mail)? Would it be worth it?

1. Waste of time
2. Won't hurt, will pay
3. Won't hurt, will pay
4. May help acceptance if you take a tech job (will pay and give you experience)
5. Waste of time
6. Won't hurt, graduating in Dec is dumb anyway- but can you raise your GPA before your application- after that it won't matter?
7. Won't hurt, sounds tiring
8 (P.S.). Waste of time

I don't think your GPA is too terrible, provided you do well on the MCAT. Also, as said above, your GPA can only improve before you submit your App. Afterwards it doesn't matter. Also, jobs that pay money will be beneficial since babies are expensive. Good luck with that!

 

[Reckoning]

Just for the record, I did number #3 and am now in my 6th year of an MSTP. Working professionally as an engineer will demonstrate that you are well, professional. And if you can juggle research and classes on top of that, I think you are good to go. I showed up for first year with a 2yo and one on the way. I was nearly freebasing caffeine by the time Step I came around. But I am here and defending my dissertation next month. It's doable and worth it but will beat the crap out of you at times.

The determinant to all this may be the how gung-ho your wife is about this change. She has to be on-board big time which includes getting a job or being very poor until your child is in middle school. If you guys are tight and ready for an adventure it will bring you closer. I imagine the alternative is not so pretty.😉

 

[bd4727]

Second degree would be a terrible waste of your time and money. GB is right.

I know a lot of people who did industry research after college (engineering people actually) and got into top tier MSTPs. The poster who said this is looked down upon is not correct, assuming you can talk intelligently about what you were doing.

 

[capacitor981]

Thanks everybody for your advice. I've given it some thought and I I want to definitely stay at the lab I'm in right now, and try to get an internship next semester or get a part-time job in another lab (I have a friend who is an M.D who works in a pharmaceutical lab and maybe he can get me in). I took a practice MCAT and scored a 25 (Kaplan online). I hope I can bring it up to mid 30th. Wish me luck!

 

[erikreinertsen]

Wow actually I am in a super similar situation. I'm a senior Biomedical Engineering major who has a year between graduating and md / phd. However, I have one last fall quarter to wrap up an EE and biophysics req. I concluded a MS would be useless, a minor would be useless, but research is absolutely the top priority (even over industry imo). I talked this over with several faculty / admissions people (still will talk to more in the coming months) and here is my decision. Assuming I have a successful interview in the Fall, I want to make it very, very clear that I have full intention of matriculation and that I want to start my lab rotations ASAP. Best-case scenario: interview Fall, move and start research. Maybe I can even take a grad class or two while the engineering material is still fresh.

 

[capacitor981]

So I've decided to stay at the lab I'm in and pursue a 2nd Undergrad degree in Biochemistry since I'll be taking most of those classes anyways for medical school. After talking with an adviser, he recommends that I see how I do on the MCAT and depending on if my score is competitive (33+) then to apply to either MD/PhD or just PhD. He seems to think that doing a straight MD would not be a good option for me. HOWEVER, a PI in my lab tells me that an MD is necessary if you want to make medical devices. He says that in his experience working with MDs (he did a post-doc at Harvard) he found that the only successful people in the medical device industry are MDs. He said that large companies tend to either purchase patents from PhDs and then shelf it (effectively removing it from the market) or the companies circumvent the patent and make a successful device and since they have the money to pay lawyers, the PhD never gets the credit he (or she) deserves. With that said, more and more I'm debating whether to apply to MD only along with MD/PhD. Would anyone else agree? Besides the tremendous amount of debt this would incur, does it seem like a logical decision? Maybe someone who has more experience than I could elaborate?

 

[capacitor981]

Oh and by the way, it's a boy 🙂 I'm so excited. My wife and I decided she is going to quit her job and we're going to apply for some student loans so we can stay aloft.

 

[Reckoning]

Congratulations on your little one. The best advice I got when I was dithering about when to apply was "Just apply. Apply early and apply often." You have A LOT of training ahead of you. Don't wait until you are the perfect applicant because they don't exist. Work the MCAT like it is your job, because it is. Getting that publication is WAY more important than any biochem classes you take (and I'd argue that doing another undergrad degree won't help you, will probably leave admissions people scratching their heads). I'd take a few classes, try to earn some money with your engineering degree, and PUBLISH (or patent as the case may be), which is what I did. In any case best of luck to you!

 

[capacitor981]

Reckoning, thanks for your comments. I'm working on getting our senior design project published or patented, whichever comes first. My studying for the MCAT is slow, but steady. I took a practice Kaplan exam (I know they are not always accurate, but it was free) and I got a 25 without any prior studying. I'm hoping if I brush up on my physics, chem, and learn more bio, I can get a 34+. The decision to do a Biochem degree came because 1) I'm taking several classes already for pre-med and after those I'd only have about a semesters worth of classes to finish the dual degree. In addition, by being in undergrad Biochem I raise my GPA (albeit slightly) and I get the chance to take classes like the one I'm taking next semester. It's an internship with a hospital where I work in the ER several hours a week. There is also a class where you get to watch surgeries and even assist in them. I think this type of education is vital because I need to experience what the medical field is like before I commit to it 100%. 2) Yeah, I'd miss opportunities to use my EE in industry, but I want to stay in school because as long as I'm still in school I can work in the lab I'm in. We're starting a new project involving qPCR and my PI said I have funding for the next year and a half. The money is not the reason I work there, trust me. It's the experience and interesting projects. At some point I may decide to drop the Biochem degree, but I figure that since I don't know a lot about Biochemistry, it's a chance to learn something new before going to medical school. Happy Holidays and thanks for the advice.

 

[vc7777]

...After talking with an adviser, he recommends that I see how I do on the MCAT and depending on if my score is competitive (33+) then to apply to either MD/PhD or just PhD. He seems to think that doing a straight MD would not be a good option for me. HOWEVER, a PI in my lab tells me that an MD is necessary if you want to make medical devices. He says that in his experience working with MDs (he did a post-doc at Harvard) he found that the only successful people in the medical device industry are MDs. He said that large companies tend to either purchase patents from PhDs and then shelf it (effectively removing it from the market) or the companies circumvent the patent and make a successful device and since they have the money to pay lawyers, the PhD never gets the credit he (or she) deserves. With that said, more and more I'm debating whether to apply to MD only along with MD/PhD. Would anyone else agree? Besides the tremendous amount of debt this would incur, does it seem like a logical decision? Maybe someone who has more experience than I could elaborate?

First, I (for once) agree with the adviser...wait till you have your MCAT scores - do not count on a high number. It may alter your decision making signifcantly. I am also curious why s/he, who has met you IRL, thinks a straight MD would be a bad option for you?

You seem hung-up by this idea of "making medical devices". Patenting is just one aspect of a very difficult and time consuming process of taking an idea from initial concept and research to FDA aprroval and full scale manufacturing. Engineers and physicians are required along many stages of the process, and frankly you could argue engineers moreso.

Depending on what particular stage of the development cycle you are interested in, NEITHER a PhD or MD is required. MDs and PhDs both can design medical devices. So can engineers with just a BS.

As for "credit" - patents usually are not all they are cracked up to be, and while important in career development (like publishing) they generally are owned by the organization that sponsored or employs you (with perhaps govt sponsored STTR and SBIR research and similar programs as an exception). At a larger company you may get a nice bonus incentive - at smaller companies or research institutes you may get nothing as it is expected of your position to produce patents.

You mentioned translational research - and in such a position probably just a PhD or MD would be adequate depending on the position. Remember too that there are very few "lone wolfs" in the medical device world and you often have multidisciplinary teams working towards common goals.

Not sent from my cell phone 😏