Georgetown for residency / fellowship

[LoudBark]

How come Georgetown is never mentioned in the discussion of "top" IM residency or fellowship programs?

Has the reputation fallen that much? Is it really not top 20 or even top 40? Is it now just considered a mid tier program?

I had thought at one time it was a top program, but it never enters anyones discussion of top places for any fellowships either. Any idea of why?

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[gutonc]

How come Georgetown is never mentioned in the discussion of "top" IM residency or fellowship programs?

Because it's not in the top tier of IM residency programs. Period. The end. If you give me 5 minutes I could easily name 30 better programs. Give me 10 minutes I can bring that number to 50.

Has the reputation fallen that much? Is it really not top 20 or even top 40? Is it now just considered a mid tier program?

When did it have a good reputation? 20 or 30 years ago? Probably. Not in the last 10 for sure. That said, it's not a "bad" program...just not that good. I think you may be making the same mistake that many people make which is to equate a program's IM (or other specialty) rank to their undergrad or med school rank. Georgetown gets props in both of those departments (UG>MD) but they have nothing to do with their IM program.

I had thought at one time it was a top program, but it never enters anyones discussion of top places for any fellowships either. Any idea of why?

I can only comment on my specific fellowship (Onc) which GT is not well known for, which is kind of weird because they have some stellar faculty, especially in GI oncology, and the Lombardi Cancer Center has a great reputation. Part of their problem may be their neighborhood. It's hard to shine when you're playing 3rd fiddle to Hopkins and NIH/NCI.

I would encourage you to not get too wrapped up in what other people think of programs though. If you want to see what GT has to offer, go for it. Perhaps it will be perfect for you, and F*** what the rest of us think because that's pretty irrelevant for you.

 

[Eurostar]

How come Georgetown is never mentioned in the discussion of "top" IM residency or fellowship programs?

Has the reputation fallen that much? Is it really not top 20 or even top 40? Is it now just considered a mid tier program?

I had thought at one time it was a top program, but it never enters anyones discussion of top places for any fellowships either. Any idea of why?

I would say Georgetown is a mid to upper tier program. Its clearly the best program in DC (and trust me, Baltimore is NOT DC). You certainly get strong clinical training and see a diverse array of patients from the wealthy to the indigent. Georgetown isnt necessarily a research powerhouse, so I think that hinders it in some of the rankings. However, over the last few years this has changed with Bruce Luxon and Allen Taylor becoming the Chiefs of Medicine and Cardiology respectively. They are giants in their fields and research dollars are opening up for attendings and residents because of it.

I think you will see fellowship match lists improve dramatically at Georgetown over the next few years.

 

[RainerMaria]

I'm also curious about Georgetown. I've heard that the hospital has been having fiscal troubles and had to be taken over by a third party to avoid bankruptcy. Is the hospital still doing well? Of my whole list of places, this is the one I'm more worried about stability-wise.

 

[Eurostar]

I'm also curious about Georgetown. I've heard that the hospital has been having fiscal troubles and had to be taken over by a third party to avoid bankruptcy. Is the hospital still doing well? Of my whole list of places, this is the one I'm more worried about stability-wise.

That was the case... in 1999. Over a decade later, while many university hospitals are losing money for their institutions, Georgetown Hospital has been in the black for quite some time. The partnership with MEDSTAR was so well liked that they made the architect of it (Jack DeGioia) the president of the university. Its being set up as an ACO and competes for patients to the north with the Hopkins system and to the south with the INOVA system. The partnership allows all the zebras from outside hospitals (about 10 affiliate hospitals in the area) to be funneled into Georgetown and Washington Hospital Center in downtown DC.

The university as a whole is doing very well. They built a new business school a few years ago and just finished a huge science and research center this year. The "fiscal troubles" talking point is something that is left over from the mid 1990s.

 

[sluggs]

I interviewed there for IM residency and for PCCM fellowship. My impression both times was that it was a once-great program that had fallen. The PCCM faculty were all good, but the hospital system seemed to be in disarray. They do not do interventional cards there anymore, and helicopter patients to WHC. It seems like a good IM program if you want a slightly academic bent and a lot of nurturing.
Just my 2c..

 

[Eurostar]

Again, there were a lot of changes to the hospital 15 years ago. I wouldnt say the hospital system is in disarray. The hospital is now part of a system where advanced cardiology (transplant, STEMI, VADs, cardiogenic shock, complex ablations, etc) is filtered through Washington Hospital Center. As Georgetown residents, you rotate through several cardiology services at WHC to get that exposure. By the way, WHC does the most caths per year in the COUNTRY. Very advanced cardiology. You also rotate through INOVA Fairfax Hospital where you get that. Cardiology at Georgetown proper is improving as well - they renovated 2 new cath labs and they are doing EP ablations now, already do diagnostic caths and will be doing interventional caths within the next few months. They are finding a niche by specializing in cardiac CT and cardio-oncology.

Not sure what the lots of nurturing comment is referring to. I'd say again that Georgetown is a mid to upper tier IM program that is improving again. Maybe 15-20 years ago the program was on the decline, but I see students and residents getting a diverse educational experience with great attendings, improving facilities and fellowship match lists.

 

[Retro Virus]

One of the things I have noticed about SDN is that it seems to be a very unreliable narrator when it comes to programs in distress, specifically regarding people perpetuating bad news that is years out of date and dubiously relevant. Here we have someone asking about a threatened hospital bankruptcy that happened over a decade ago; just yesterday in another thread here there was someone asking if she should avoid Baylor given the Methodist split, which was 6 years ago. Both institutions are completely different programs who I'm sure have adapted in their own ways, but the groupthink seems fixated on their past. I wonder if the same is true of Case Western given their contentious thread here.

Just something to consider.

 

[blackandtan]

Georgetown has a great program director that cares a ton about his residents. The program will rotate you through up to 6 different hospitals, which some look at as a negative. You may feel like you're spread to the wind, or that you are getting lost in the system. On the other hand, the PD, Dr. Adams, works hard to keep you in the loop and make sure you aren't falling through the cracks. The positive side to seeing so many different facilities and systems is that you become very well rounded, and it gives you the opportunity to truly explore both the private/community (INOVA, Virginia Hospital Center, WHC) and academic (GUH, NIH, VA) side of medicine, allowing you to make a more informed decision on your future.

Research is not a huge strong point for GT, but there are projects to be had if you are inclined, and they have a good director of Resident Research in Dr. Timpone, who makes sure you're hooked up with the right people for your wants/desires.

All in all, I think the "top-tier" vs "middle-tier" argument only comes to play if you're looking for academic medicine as a long term goal. GT places people in academic positions (fellowships, or academic educators), but not as high a percentage as its (not so near) neighbor (Hopkins). It all depends on what you want, and where you'll fit in.

 

[bubblez128]

Any last minute thoughts on Georgetown? I'm a little skeptical about GUH's new way they do admissions (admitting teams q 7 days). Not sure if this will damper the intern "learning experience" of working up your own admissions. Also, any thoughts on going to different hospitals?

 

[Mobitz3]

I rotated at Georgetown - the floor teams can do their own admissions during the day so you do get to work up your own admissions. The geographic system was just started a few months ago and they are constantly listening to resident feedback and making tweaks. I personally think its a great change.

Many programs have you go to different hospitals. I think going to different hospitals at Georgetown makes you more well rounded. First, by the end of your residency you will have experienced working in almost all the possible hospital settings - large tertiary care centers at Fairfax and WHC, medium sized academic centers at Georgetown proper, mid size community teaching hospitals like Virginia Hospital Center and a VA. You will have the experience to know what kind of setting you want to work in. If you go to a program that doesnt leave the main hospital, #1 it will be boring and #2 you will have no idea how the others operate when you go out for a job search and try to decide where you want to start your career. You'll never know if you like a VA or if you like a mid size community hospital unless you actually have experience there. If you want to start in DC, you'll have the opportunity to work at all the major centers in the area and make the contacts you need.

Also, you'll have the opportunity to work with the major medical records systems in the country which makes you more marketable - Cerner at Georgetown and WHC and Epic at Fairfax.