Getting Desperate! University of Washington or Penn?

[wisteria318]

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Sorry for yet a another School X vs. School Y thread but gwang and I have thought our decisions to death and are still undecided. So I figure I would seek some more opinions from this forum. No doubt both schools are awesome (especially in the field of immunology, which is what I'm interested in and the organization of the MSTP) and that's what makes this decision so difficult. I am well aware that both schools are excellent in terms of research opportunities and are well-respected hence I never took prestige into consideration. However, upon talking to people at the NIH, they have told me that prestige does matter, especially if you want to get into academic medicine (maybe they're biased being on the east coast...?). Penn has the advantage of the bigger name and perhaps even more importantly, it is in close proximity to numerous big research institutions such as the NIH, Hopkins, NY and Boston schools allowing for greater networking opportunities and as much as we hate to admit it, who you know does make a difference. I am from CA and am currently working at the NIH so have sort of been on both coasts however, all my family is in CA and I am a west coaster at heart. I do have to say though, that I like Penn's med school curriculum more and being able to train at CHOP (i'm interested in peds) will be amazing.

I guess my main question is will training at Penn give me an advantage, if any, over UW if I ultimately want a career in the west coast?

Thank you SO much!

 

[Neuronix]

Penn has the advantage of the bigger name and perhaps even more importantly, it is in close proximity to numerous big research institutions such as the NIH, Hopkins, NY and Boston schools allowing for greater networking opportunities and as much as we hate to admit it, who you know does make a difference.

1) When you come from UWash or UPenn MSTP you will get a top residency and do a top fellowship. In the long run, #4 in the rankings vs. #10 in the rankings means diddly squat.

2) I'm not aware that we have lots more interactions with other faculty at other institutions. Sure, you can meet visiting faculty, but you can do that at any program. You're going to have collaborations at any program as well, and I haven't really seen how our proximity to these other big name schools makes that big a difference for the MSTPs who aren't exactly allowed to leave here and do research with someone else.

I am from CA and am currently working at the NIH so have sort of been on both coasts however, all my family is in CA and I am a west coaster at heart.

You have to like Philly. If you're a west coaster at heart, stay out there, or you're liable to end up miserable.

I do have to say though, that I like Penn's med school curriculum more and being able to train at CHOP (i'm interested in peds) will be amazing.

I don't like our cirriculum very much. Admissions does a great job of selling it, but they work very hard at recruiting here. Our class in general is very bitter, and I imagine the class below us will end up as bad if not worse due to the increasing courseload and increasing threatening/disciplinary actions. I've brought it up to admissions about how they're lying to applicants about our cirriculum, but they don't change what they have to say. I've spoken out to the administration and in forums where we're supposed to be able to vent a number of times, and I get anywhere from patronized to ignored to having dirty little comments stuck in my file. Buyer beware.

The CHOP name is nice and all, but I can't say it's the best place for a med student. It's driven towards fellows and residents, and the med students aren't allowed to do all that much. I did Neurology at CHOP, and I sure saw some unique and interesting stuff and met some big name researchers, but did I do anything? Nope, it was like shadowing. Again, you'll do whatever residency you want in another 8 years, so I wouldn't pick based on this.

I guess my main question is will training at Penn give me an advantage, if any, over UW if I ultimately want a career in the west coast?

Nope. I didn't interview at UW so I can't comment so much on it. Though, don't come here for prestige purposes is the #1 piece of advice I can give you. Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[leverp2000]

It seems like you really want to go to the University of Washington and stay on the West Coast. The differences between the schools are not that significant, as both are terrific and will open up many opportunities. While a bigger name may help sometimes, I think your performance at the school matters so much more. As such, you should go where you are comfortable and it seems like you would be more comfortable at UWash (at least from what you've written).

Sorry for yet a another School X vs. School Y thread but gwang and I have thought our decisions to death and are still undecided. So I figure I would seek some more opinions from this forum. No doubt both schools are awesome (especially in the field of immunology, which is what I'm interested in and the organization of the MSTP) and that's what makes this decision so difficult. I am well aware that both schools are excellent in terms of research opportunities and are well-respected hence I never took prestige into consideration. However, upon talking to people at the NIH, they have told me that prestige does matter, especially if you want to get into academic medicine (maybe they're biased being on the east coast...?). Penn has the advantage of the bigger name and perhaps even more importantly, it is in close proximity to numerous big research institutions such as the NIH, Hopkins, NY and Boston schools allowing for greater networking opportunities and as much as we hate to admit it, who you know does make a difference. I am from CA and am currently working at the NIH so have sort of been on both coasts however, all my family is in CA and I am a west coaster at heart. I do have to say though, that I like Penn's med school curriculum more and being able to train at CHOP (i'm interested in peds) will be amazing.

I guess my main question is will training at Penn give me an advantage, if any, over UW if I ultimately want a career in the west coast?

Thank you SO much!

 

[goku2005]

I agree with what everyone says above. Both schools are top notch programs. Really it comes down to where do you feel most comfortable at. And if it is the west coast go to UWash or if it is the east coast go to UPenn.


Good Luck!

 

[wisteria318]

Hm, I guess I made it sound like I am only looking to Penn for the prestige, which is taken into account of, but not entirely the reason. Coming from the west coast, I also feel that it might be good for me to have an east coast experience because even being in Maryland for a year (although it's not the real east coast as people like to point out to me) has definitely given me a different perspective. And although Seattle is a nicer city to me than Philly, I can see myself living in Philly and I do have friends on the east coast as well. Okay, I don't know how that contributes to my first post...just some of my random thought processes...

Thanks for the comments thus far! And thanks for the insight into Penn Neuronix. I guess the curriculum isn't as fine and dandy as the admissions people would like us to think. They totally sold it to us during Penn Preview!

 

[kermitdfrog]

If networking is a major concern for you, I would keep in mind that you can network from pretty much any program. A big part of that will be choosing a supportive PI, and going to conferences, seminars, publishing ect. Personally having both West and East Coast experience, I don’t see any difference in who knows who. Researchers at UW will know researchers at Penn and vice versa. I think the argument that you’re using with proximity to various institutions can be reversed and said that UW is closer to other West Coast institutions so they’ll have networking opportunities with each other. And you want to end up back on the West Coast right? In reality people in your area of concentration will know each other from reading the same literature, and seeing and hearing each other at various events, regardless of where they are located.

Sure an Ivy League attachment may get people to look at you, but your research is going to be far more important. Obviously the UW has no problem with that, just look at how much funding they get from NIH, NSF ect. More often than not I hear, so and so is a great scientist, not they are affiliated with such and such. If you have some institutions that you think you could see yourself working at down the road, take a look at the CV’s of some of the faculty, and I have a feeling you’ll see that they come from a variety of schools.

If you’re looking for a different experience Seattle will be a different experience from CA, all be it a lot more similar than Philly. How has the year in Maryland been for you being apart from your family/friends in CA, if not a major issue and you could see yourself spending another seven years in the same situation then the Penn experience might benefit you in many ways. I was in a somewhat similar situation as you, choosing between a CA school (coming from the UW) and a NE school, and eventually wanting to end up on the West Coast. I went with the NE school, but I question that decision frequently. I think ultimately it comes down to where you see yourself as being the most comfortable for almost a decade, as both schools will provide you with a great education and open a lot of doors for you.

At this point I wouldn’t make what institution will give you the greater chance of getting a job a priority, save that for when you are selecting your residency/post doc postition, and even then include a lot more factors. Right now go with who you think will give you the training environment/experience you want, and where you could really enjoy obtaining it (including a non-school related social life). Just my .02.

 

[nscs]

It's past May 15...what was the decision? Not that you could lose either way...but just curious.

 

[wisteria318]

*phew*

I am definitely glad that this step is over. It was perhaps one of the most difficult decisions I've had to make (and I'm sure many of you understand). I talked/bothered so many people and became so attached to both schools but ultimately it came down to research opportunities and University of Washington's research catered best to my interests...so that is where I'll be come this July. I've already set up my summer rotation and even tentatively next summer's rotation. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to work with the faculty I met at UW.

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and advice. I really appreciate it! I already have friends asking about the AMCAS for next year...we've barely finished and the next cycle is starting, now that's crazy!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Both are great programs. Congrats on making a final decision!