Getting into med school does not guarantee being a doctor

[Psycho Doctor]

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I remember getting that first acceptance letter and thinking "wow, I'm really going to be a doctor." i know most people feel the same way with an acceptance letter in hand. I see it constantly on the pre-allo board; i even saw it moments ago. However getting an acceptance letter in no way guarantees one the end result. Anything can go wrong on the journey. Dreams die or are ripped away; hearts are broken; lives are ruined...and there are no guarantees.

 

[Megalofyia]

However, that letter is a big step.

 

[rpkall]

The graduation rate at most med schools is like, 95%, isn't it?

If you study for the tests, study for the boards, and try not to piss people off royally in 3rd year, why wouldn't you graduate?

I guess you're right, though. You could be one of those 5%. But see, MOST of those 5% say to themselves, "This sucks as$, I have no motivation, and I don't really want to be doing this with my life." Not: "Oh crap I couldn't cut it academically even though I've been really trying this whole time."

 

[OHMAN0125]

The graduation rate at most med schools is like, 95%, isn't it?

If you study for the tests, study for the boards, and try not to piss people off royally in 3rd year, why wouldn't you graduate?

I guess you're right, though. You could be one of those 5%. But see, MOST of those 5% say to themselves, "This sucks as$, I have no motivation, and I don't really want to be doing this with my life." Not: "Oh crap I couldn't cut it academically even though I've been really trying this whole time."

This is true. Even if you totally mess up, most schools let you repeat years and will try to push you through. They tell us the one reason ppl dont graduate is cause they decide to drop out themselves because they think it's too tough and not worth it. In other words...if your accepted then >95% chance ur getting through unless you give it up.

 

[Megalofyia]

There are a couple of ways to not give up and still end up not finishing.. at least not finishing at the school you started at in the country you started in. But it is very very rare and far between.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

i've seen numerous posts of people being kicked out of school or having to repeat courses or even a whole year. i've heard people want to give up. it's a long journey; there are no guarantees.

 

[Tristy]

The only thing that is 100% guaranteed in this life is death. 😉

 

[Nittany Lion]

i've seen numerous posts of people being kicked out of school or having to repeat courses or even a whole year. i've heard people want to give up. it's a long journey; there are no guarantees.

There's no guarantee that any of us are going to wake up tomorrow, either. You can't live your life always wondering "what if, what if, what if...". All we can do is take one day at a time, and give each day our best shot.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

i've seen numerous posts of people being kicked out of school or having to repeat courses or even a whole year. i've heard people want to give up. it's a long journey; there are no guarantees.

get off your high horse and allow people to celebrate. since you admit you felt the same way when you got your letter, and clearly since you have made some realizations about how arduous a process it is, it's most likely a given that the accepted candidate is going to realize how tough things really are. as 95% of people do. you only hear ridiculous stories because those failures/repeaters are out of the norm. yes, in fact, there is a guarantee: barring losing interest and catastrophe, a person of above average intelligence with the drive and motivation to *make it* to medical school WILL graduate and become a doctor. my heartiest congratulations to you in pointing out the obvious, that medical school is hard. i'm sure that skill will serve you well as a physician.

 

[QofQuimica]

get off your high horse and allow people to celebrate. since you admit you felt the same way when you got your letter, and clearly since you have made some realizations about how arduous a process it is, it's most likely a given that the accepted candidate is going to realize how tough things really are. as 95% of people do. you only hear ridiculous stories because those failures/repeaters are out of the norm. yes, in fact, there is a guarantee: barring losing interest and catastrophe, a person of above average intelligence with the drive and motivation to *make it* to medical school WILL graduate and become a doctor. my heartiest congratulations to you in pointing out the obvious, that medical school is hard. i'm sure that skill will serve you well as a physician.

Don't be so hard on PD. He's in the trenches right now with no end in sight, and the view isn't as good from down there as it is from up here. I am three months from graduating with my PhD. If you ask me now whether it was worth it, I'd be emphatically telling you, sure! Getting a PhD isn't so bad; even I could do it! But if you asked me the same question a few years ago, I would be telling you how much *I* wanted to drop out because I hated grad school so much and nothing was going right.

PD, anything worth doing is going to be hard, and there are going to be high points and low points. The trick to getting through those low points is to make up your mind ahead of time that you will never quit during a low point. Give it some time and work, and you will often find that you change your perspective as things begin to improve. But if things are going well and you still want to quit, then you probably should. Somehow I don't see that happening in your case though. FWIW, I think you're going to be a great doctor. 🙂

 

[footcramp]

you're right, some people in medical school instead become pathologists, radiologists, or psychiatrists

 

[Bobblehead]

The only thing that is 100% guaranteed in this life is death. 😉

Death AND taxes. Death and taxes..

 

[ocean11]

get off your high horse and allow people to celebrate. since you admit you felt the same way when you got your letter, and clearly since you have made some realizations about how arduous a process it is, it's most likely a given that the accepted candidate is going to realize how tough things really are. as 95% of people do. you only hear ridiculous stories because those failures/repeaters are out of the norm. yes, in fact, there is a guarantee: barring losing interest and catastrophe, a person of above average intelligence with the drive and motivation to *make it* to medical school WILL graduate and become a doctor. my heartiest congratulations to you in pointing out the obvious, that medical school is hard. i'm sure that skill will serve you well as a physician.

I don't agree!! I know a few people who just couldn't make it, some were kicked out for reasons other than academic performance, and some just didn't feel they could make it academically. But I know a few people who actually wanted to stay in, but were still expelled. So yeah I agree with PD getting an acceptance dosn't guarantee anything.... it only guarantees that you have a shot at fullfilling your dream, but its UP TO YOU to do it. School's can't just 'push you through' without any effort on your part, or rather ALOT of effort on your part + the ability.

PD, are you in 3rd yr now?!?

 

[Ypo.]

I remember getting that first acceptance letter and thinking "wow, I'm really going to be a doctor." i know most people feel the same way with an acceptance letter in hand. I see it constantly on the pre-allo board; i even saw it moments ago. However getting an acceptance letter in no way guarantees one the end result. Anything can go wrong on the journey. Dreams die or are ripped away; hearts are broken; lives are ruined...and there are no guarantees.

Wow, Psycho. This is a rare burst of negativity out of you! What happened?

Look on the bright side-you have a much better chance of graduating from medical school than law school. Also, if things get too tough, you can do an extended program, get tutors...schools usually bend over backwards to keep their medical students from failing...we represent an investment that they would lose.

 

[Ypo.]

The only thing that is 100% guaranteed in this life is death. 😉

You forgot taxes!

Edit-someone already beat me to the punch.

 

[usnavdoc]

Most schools bend over backwards to graduate you. Not graduating someone reflects poorly on their admissions process. So they have things like extended programs and such. At my school there were even people that took 6 or more years to complete for whatever reason.

Now I think thats a bit much. The fact is that there are people who get in that should never have gotten in and there are people who never get in that should have.

 

[Dizz]

you're right, some people in medical school instead become pathologists, radiologists, or psychiatrists

Some people only go to med school to become one of those!

 

[Gut Shot]

it's a long journey; there are no guarantees.

Try going to graduate school if you want a long journey with no guarantees. I spent 59 months slaving away, living under the incrementally increasing pressure of my research. The only thing that forced them to graduate me was my acceptance to med school, since I had another year of funding lined up.

Med school? Sure it blows, but it's 45 months and you're OUT. Heck, the last 9 are a cakewalk, so it's more like 36 and you're on easy street. Long journey, pshaw. The end is coming faster and sooner than you think, so go find your gonads and get back in there!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Taxes arent certain. you are free not to pay them, you will end up in jail but you dont have to pay them! Death on the other hand is a certainty!

 

[glorytaker]

I remember getting that first acceptance letter and thinking "wow, I'm really going to be a doctor." i know most people feel the same way with an acceptance letter in hand. I see it constantly on the pre-allo board; i even saw it moments ago. However getting an acceptance letter in no way guarantees one the end result. Anything can go wrong on the journey. Dreams die or are ripped away; hearts are broken; lives are ruined...and there are no guarantees.

Don't forget about people who don't practice medicine after graduation. Just because you graduate does not mean you will be a practicing physician. How many people are so disgruntled at the end of their medical training that they decide not to do residency or they quit during residency? I've heard of a few doctors stop practicing and go back to get an MBA or law degree. It's not just people who are quiting during med school, it's any time in their life.

BTW, taxes are not a guarantee-- if you never work, you don't pay taxes.

 

[Ypo.]

Taxes arent certain. you are free not to pay them, you will end up in jail but you dont have to pay them! Death on the other hand is a certainty!

If you want food, clothes, anything that you don't want to make (or grow) yourself- you have to pay taxes.

 

[Brainsucker]

Move to Sweden. Then you can have the gov't take care of you.

And interventional radiology is pretty cool. Stents!

 

[Indryd]

I remember getting that first acceptance letter and thinking "wow, I'm really going to be a doctor." i know most people feel the same way with an acceptance letter in hand. I see it constantly on the pre-allo board; i even saw it moments ago. However getting an acceptance letter in no way guarantees one the end result. Anything can go wrong on the journey. Dreams die or are ripped away; hearts are broken; lives are ruined...and there are no guarantees.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Phil 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

Never hug tomorrow someone you could hug today.

WWJD to discourage excited new med students?

 

[SoCuteMD]

I remember getting that first acceptance letter and thinking "wow, I'm really going to be a doctor." i know most people feel the same way with an acceptance letter in hand. I see it constantly on the pre-allo board; i even saw it moments ago. However getting an acceptance letter in no way guarantees one the end result. Anything can go wrong on the journey. Dreams die or are ripped away; hearts are broken; lives are ruined...and there are no guarantees.

Given that once you start medical school I believe the drop-out rate is well below 5%, and many of those people will choose to leave, not actually be kicked out, receiving an acceptance letter pretty much paves the way to becoming a doctor. With that said, the road is still bumpy and whoever said "the hardest part is getting in" obviously hasn't peered at a cadaver during a practical going "What the HELL is that?!?" And yes, hearts are broken. I've seen very few lives ruined, though, and I've seen even fewer dreams die. In fact, I'd venture to say that most of us in medical school are pretty grateful to have the opportunity to live our dreams. What we are disappointed in is the fact that it doesn't quite feel like a dream.

Whenever I get sick of med school and want to quit/curse the day I started, I think about what it would feel to not be an MS1 this year. To be reapplying, to be waiting and hoping that someone would give me this chance. I know I would feel about a million times crappier in that situation!!

 

[Ypo.]

In fact, I'd venture to say that most of us in medical school are pretty grateful to have the opportunity to live our dreams. What we are disappointed in is the fact that it doesn't quite feel like a dream.

Yeah, I agree with this. It doesn't feel like a dream. Also, medical school isn't as intellectually stimulating for me as I thought it would be. Did anyone else go into it expecting that it would be hard but also intellectually fulfilling only to find out that its just hard? 😱

 

[Katya00]

Whenever things get very very hard for me, I just refuse to think about it. I don't sit around wishing I could be doing something else, or wanting to go back in time or whatever, I just don't think at all. haha. I also figure, there's nothing I can do about it now, and every day is a little closer to the end goal. And sometimes I think "would I really be doing anything that great if I wasn't doing this?" Probably just watching t.v. so I don't worry about it too much. This time will pass too, I am sorry you are going through a hard time. Just remember there are many others who feel that way too, and that sometimes helps me too, to not feel so alone.

 

[Paws]

Whenever I get sick of med school and want to quit/curse the day I started, I think about what it would feel to not be an MS1 this year. To be reapplying, to be waiting and hoping that someone would give me this chance. I know I would feel about a million times crappier in that situation!!

So this sounds like me sometimes. Normally I am pretty ok and happy but stuff that bums me out wickedly is working my butt off on phys/pharm (my two most difficult subjects), and thinking: "Yep, I think I knew that ok," and then getting a yucky grade. I feel frustrated to work so dang hard - way harder than I ever did! - and yet I feel so much dumber that I ever did. It's a really weird feeling to me. 😳

But what else would I be doing? So I am very happy to be here, but I still struggle.

 

[Ypo.]

So this sounds like me sometimes. Normally I am pretty ok and happy but stuff that bums me out wickedly is working my butt off on phys/pharm (my two most difficult subjects), and thinking: "Yep, I think I knew that ok," and then getting a yucky grade. I feel frustrated to work so dang hard - way harder than I ever did! - and yet I feel so much dumber that I ever did. It's a really weird feeling to me. 😳

But what else would I be doing? So I am very happy to be here, but I still struggle.

I'm with you on this notion, Paws!

 

[Misterioso]

Something most med students don't realize:

Just because you graduate med school also doesn't guarantee you are going to be allowed to practice medicine. There are people who have gotten into med school, graduated from med school and even finished residency and then haven't been given a license to practice because of something that happened along the way (which could have happened even before they started med school or some time after).

All that time, sacrifice and money for nothing.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Something most med students don't realize:

Just because you graduate med school also doesn't guarantee you are going to be allowed to practice medicine. There are people who have gotten into med school, graduated from med school and even finished residency and then haven't been given a license to practice because of something that happened along the way (which could have happened even before they started med school or some time along the way).

All that time, sacrifice and money for nothing.

Yeah, well, that's why I make an effort to avoid doing stupid s---.

 

[Misterioso]

Yeah, well, that's why I make an effort to avoid doing stupid s---.

You don't necessarily have to do anything, others can do it for you.

 

[SoCuteMD]

You don't necessarily have to do anything, others can do it for you.

Not buying it. Care to provide an example?

 

[Misterioso]

Not buying it. Care to provide an example?

Sure.

An otherwise competent resident pisses off an attending in his residency program. When it comes time to apply for a license, the licensing application asks you to answer a ton of questions about your past, and most have a question about whether you have been the receipient of any kind of reprimand during your training. Resident answers no. But when reviewing the resident for licensure, the licensing board discovers an official complaint letter written by the attending that the resident had pissed off earlier in his residency. The resident claims he'd never seen or known about the letter. But who do you think they believed? Licensing board claims resident perjured himself on his application which is grounds for denial of license.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

get off your high horse and allow people to celebrate. since you admit you felt the same way when you got your letter, and clearly since you have made some realizations about how arduous a process it is, it's most likely a given that the accepted candidate is going to realize how tough things really are. as 95% of people do. you only hear ridiculous stories because those failures/repeaters are out of the norm. yes, in fact, there is a guarantee: barring losing interest and catastrophe, a person of above average intelligence with the drive and motivation to *make it* to medical school WILL graduate and become a doctor. my heartiest congratulations to you in pointing out the obvious, that medical school is hard. i'm sure that skill will serve you well as a physician.

i think you totally misunderstood my post. I'm on no "high horse"; in fact i'm asking for help b/c i'm about as low as i've ever been regarding my academics.

Wow, Psycho. This is a rare burst of negativity out of you! What happened?

Look on the bright side-you have a much better chance of graduating from medical school than law school. Also, if things get too tough, you can do an extended program, get tutors...schools usually bend over backwards to keep their medical students from failing...we represent an investment that they would lose.

thanks for the advice. i think all the tests this week just caught me off guard and totally overwhelmed me.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Don't be so hard on PD. He's in the trenches right now with no end in sight, and the view isn't as good from down there as it is from up here. I am three months from graduating with my PhD. If you ask me now whether it was worth it, I'd be emphatically telling you, sure! Getting a PhD isn't so bad; even I could do it! But if you asked me the same question a few years ago, I would be telling you how much *I* wanted to drop out because I hated grad school so much and nothing was going right.

PD, anything worth doing is going to be hard, and there are going to be high points and low points. The trick to getting through those low points is to make up your mind ahead of time that you will never quit during a low point. Give it some time and work, and you will often find that you change your perspective as things begin to improve. But if things are going well and you still want to quit, then you probably should. Somehow I don't see that happening in your case though. FWIW, I think you're going to be a great doctor. 🙂

thanks, Q, you always give such great and kind advice. And I don't want to quit; i'm just feeling overwhelmed.

 

[71263]

In my school, retention is extremely high. Most of the class graduates in 4 years. The few (3-4 that i know of) who mess up first year decelerate and end up taking 5 years to finish, but they do get through. Only if those who decelerate continue to fail classes are they kicked out. It is extremely rare for anyone to drop out or be expelled. The post-bacc program (AP program) is another story...

 

[SoCuteMD]

In my school, retention is extremely high. Most of the class graduates in 4 years. The few (3-4 that i know of) who mess up first year decelerate and end up taking 5 years to finish, but they do get through. Only if those who decelerate continue to fail classes are they kicked out. It is extremely rare for anyone to drop out or be expelled. The post-bacc program (AP program) is another story...

From what I understand it is largely that way. Med schools have to retain for admissions purposes (What? You want me to take out 50K in loans and THEN you get to decide if I'll make it?) and for acccreditation purposes. I think they have to do some pretty big explaining if their fail out rate is too high.

Misterioso brings up an interesting point, but I really doubt that events like those are any more than 0.1% of graduates, and probably much fewer. I would personally never certify that my record was clean without requesting it from my school. It's like going to get a mortgage without knowing your credit score. So yes, I do have copies of my permanent school record from high school and undergrad filed away and I assume I will do the same for med school and residency.

 

[SADISTIK]

I will tell you now we had a conjoint IPE with the med students. The dummy that was used was full interactI've. The doctor in charge had not taken any professional advice from us "lowlife" pharmacist. He ended causing the dummy patient to go into cardiac arrest. The MD proctoring the scenario had told the med student whyou he should've at least taken some feedback from the pharmacy students. I will tell you know, always what school, accolades, etc.. your doctor has received. Because there are some that thrive having the title but have no skill at all

 

[Vain Brother]

cool story bro

 

[Psai]

I will tell you now we had a conjoint IPE with the med students. The dummy that was used was full interactI've. The doctor in charge had not taken any professional advice from us "lowlife" pharmacist. He ended causing the dummy patient to go into cardiac arrest. The MD proctoring the scenario had told the med student whyou he should've at least taken some feedback from the pharmacy students. I will tell you know, always what school, accolades, etc.. your doctor has received. Because there are some that thrive having the title but have no skill at all

Maybe they would have taken your feedback if you were able to string a sentence together

 

[ElJanitor]

I will tell you now we had a conjoint IPE with the med students. The dummy that was used was full interactI've. The doctor in charge had not taken any professional advice from us "lowlife" pharmacist. He ended causing the dummy patient to go into cardiac arrest. The MD proctoring the scenario had told the med student whyou he should've at least taken some feedback from the pharmacy students. I will tell you know, always what school, accolades, etc.. your doctor has received. Because there are some that thrive having the title but have no skill at all

A bit confused based on the way you phrased this; was it the medical student who messed up or the doctor? If it's the med student, mistakes are expected considering they're in the process of learning.

Also, holy cow, you bumped an 11 year old thread to talk bad about med students...

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

About 3 months away from graduating med school.

For a majority of people who don't finish, it is due to professionalism reasons (cheating, faculty/classmate interactions, etc), or personal reasons (decide it's not their path, personal illness, etc).

Very rarely does someone NOT finish med school due to grades. If you don't pass the boards you are given second chances and if you fail blocks you are given opportunities to remediate. Most schools are very supportive about getting you through.

However if you finish med school despite issues with boards/grades, then your specialty choices will be much more limited.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

I will tell you now we had a conjoint IPE with the med students. The dummy that was used was full interactI've. The doctor in charge had not taken any professional advice from us "lowlife" pharmacist. He ended causing the dummy patient to go into cardiac arrest. The MD proctoring the scenario had told the med student whyou he should've at least taken some feedback from the pharmacy students. I will tell you know, always what school, accolades, etc.. your doctor has received. Because there are some that thrive having the title but have no skill at all

What did I just read?

 

[caffeinemia]

The only thing that is 100% guaranteed in this life is death. 😉

And taxes...

Also, I thought millenials just did **** for the experience. I guess 4 grueling years of schooling doesn't count...

 

[3characterslong]

2006 was such a different time.

 

[Astra]

2006 was such a different time.

yea. it was 11 years ago

 

[darklabel]

About 3 months away from graduating med school.

For a majority of people who don't finish, it is due to professionalism reasons (cheating, faculty/classmate interactions, etc), or personal reasons (decide it's not their path, personal illness, etc).

Very rarely does someone NOT finish med school due to grades. If you don't pass the boards you are given second chances and if you fail blocks you are given opportunities to remediate. Most schools are very supportive about getting you through.

However if you finish med school despite issues with boards/grades, then your specialty choices will be much more limited.

Yup. If you're in any MD or DO school and you continue trying after failing step 1 and having other multiple red flags like failed classes and such, there will always be a spot for you in Family Medicine or pediatrics. The problem becomes if you want to do something like a surgical subspecialty then yeah...your dreams can end pretty quickly throughout medical school, but if you just get through then you can still become a doctor.

 

[Spectre of Ockham]

I will tell you now we had a conjoint IPE with the med students. The dummy that was used was full interactI've. The doctor in charge had not taken any professional advice from us "lowlife" pharmacist. He ended causing the dummy patient to go into cardiac arrest. The MD proctoring the scenario had told the med student whyou he should've at least taken some feedback from the pharmacy students. I will tell you know, always what school, accolades, etc.. your doctor has received. Because there are some that thrive having the title but have no skill at all

This is why we'll replace you with a Boston Dynamics pill fetcher - your envy is so toxic you're inducing necrotizing forumiitis . Let only the good pharmacists stay in the field.

 

[Dr.Kat]

my heartiest congratulations to you in pointing out the obvious, that medical school is hard. i'm sure that skill will serve you well as a physician.

LOL love this response.